D&D 5e Base Class Contest VII Chat Thread

[moonfly7]

In answer to the top question about the threads, I would vote for a new thread every time. I understand it might be a bit harder for you, so don't worry about it if it is. But I like having everything in easy to find spots, just my opinion though.

As for next theme, I think new ways of casting spells would be nice, maybe call it out with the old in with the new. basically, magic without spell slots.

[SunderedWorldDM]

Ooh, I'd love to hop back into these competitions. I think I'd like to try my hand at an attempt at an Artificer of some type. Or a Cleric that uses a spellbook... the ideas flow free!

[MoleMage]

In answer to the top question about the threads, I would vote for a new thread every time. I understand it might be a bit harder for you, so don't worry about it if it is. But I like having everything in easy to find spots, just my opinion though.

As for next theme, I think new ways of casting spells would be nice, maybe call it out with the old in with the new. basically, magic without spell slots.

Yeah that makes sense.

I'll add Magic Without Slots to the idea list. It will be a good excuse for me to make more Sorcery classes anyway.

[moonfly7]

thinking of renaming arcanic researcher to a name that actually makes since for a caster fighting martial class, any ideas?

[Kyutaru]

thinking of renaming arcanic researcher to a name that actually makes since for a caster fighting martial class, any ideas?

Witch hunter
Loremaster
Tinker
Technomancer
Arcanist
Spellthief
Magebane
Magic Marauder
Indiana Jones

[Man_Over_Game]

thinking of renaming arcanic researcher to a name that actually makes since for a caster fighting martial class, any ideas?

There's no reason to reinvent the wheel. Do what DnD does, and recycle old terms with new mechanics.

4e already came up with the perfect term, for a magic-oriented melee tank class: The Swordmage.

[MoleMage]

Small updates to the Theurge continue to trickle in. I'm not terribly satisfied with the Angelus sorcery, but there aren't any good official celestials to give it at low levels (whatever happened to lantern archons?). For now this will work, though after the contest or if I have time once I've got the rest written I might make homebrew stat blocks for celestials instead of the current list.

I'll get a review up for KOLE's ranger tomorrow.

[moonfly7]

There's no reason to reinvent the wheel. Do what DnD does, and recycle old terms with new mechanics.

4e already came up with the perfect term, for a magic-oriented melee tank class: The Swordmage.

It doesn't cast. Its not a magic class, So sword mage doesn't make sense. I think the best way to actually name the thing is to read it, but since I know I dont have time to read the other contest classes yet anyways, I'll summarize so you guys can have a clearer idea of what it is.

Its an antimagic class, and it has a "favored enemy" kinda option that lets you choose one school of magic to be better at fighting, and resisting their magic. I also have it a form of eldritch invocations called arcanic discoveries, researched pieces of magical and practical knowledge for fighting casters.
The other main thing they can do is steal the spell slots of casters when they deal damage to them, and they later on gain a feature that lets then spend these slots to deal extra damage and heal themselves and allies.
Some discoveries may grant one shot or at will use of spells, but they are not casters, they cannot cast spells, and they do not have a spell list or slots.
So, that's the explanation. Thanks for the name advice, I'm sorry I'm so picky, but as you can see, the class is kind of weird and I want a name that captures Its essence. Which is proving unnerving for me, I will admit.
But to answer the sword mage thing, I don't think it's an apprpriate name, sword mages cast spells, and had a lot of teleportation magic to their names. They were also first and for most gishes, mixing magic and melee, this class is not a gish, although maybe I should have rebrewed the sword mage instead, as the more I think about it, my class doesn't really fit the theme.
Let me know if anyone thinks I should change what I'm doing so that I'm actually following the theme, because I made the mistake of not following it well enough in the subclass contest, and I don't want to do that here, please tell me if I am falling into the same trap again.

[sengmeng]

So my idea is a samurai class as an alternate fighter. So fighters should exist in the same game, but you couldn't multiclass fighter and samurai, and so far, only the fighting styles and archetypes will be different (leaving the actual class table identical, and keeping second wind, action surge, indomitable, extra attack, and all the ability score increases the same. Does this count?

[theVoidWatches]

Moonfly, how about the antimage? That encompasses being martial, since mages aren't, as well as using antimagic.

[MoleMage]

So my idea is a samurai class as an alternate fighter. So fighters should exist in the same game, but you couldn't multiclass fighter and samurai, and so far, only the fighting styles and archetypes will be different (leaving the actual class table identical, and keeping second wind, action surge, indomitable, extra attack, and all the ability score increases the same. Does this count?

This is within the boundaries of the contest, yes. Fighter subclasses and fighting styles are a huge part of how they play, so it will come out looking fairly different just with those. One thing I personally would like to see is swapping one of the three main features out for something unique (probably Indomitable or Second Wind) that really emphasizes how the samurai is distinct from the base fighter, but it won't be necessary in order to fit the theme.

[MoleMage]

Some additional name ideas for the arcanic researcher (I like Antimage, Magebane, and Witch Hunter previously mentioned also)

Disruptor
Mana Eater
Inquisitor
Spellbane

[moonfly7]

Some additional name ideas for the arcanic researcher (I like Antimage, Magebane, and Witch Hunter previously mentioned also)

Disruptor
Mana Eater
Inquisitor
Spellbane

Spellbane does sound good. Perhaps something refferencing the weave? Perhaps the weave unraveler? That name itself is stupid, but refferencing the weave may be good. I may just go with spellbane. Or just Banes, which is ironically the name of a very similar organization in a story I once wrote.

[moonfly7]

Officially changed the name of the Arcanic researcher to the Spellbane. Thanks you everyone who gave name ideas! I still could use any subclass concepts, or arcane discovery ideas.

[sengmeng]

Ok, Samurai is up and ready to PEACH. I will leave the format as is unless someone complains.

I also kind of wanted to make the same idea except with the Avengers as the theme. Fighting styles would be Battlesmith (Iron Man), Archer (Hawkeye), Shield Fighter (Captain America), Head Scissors (Black Widow), Mean Swing (Thor), Smash (Hulk), and archetypes would be Powerhouse (Thor and Hulk), Gadgeteer (Iron Man and Black Widow), and Tactician (Captain America and Hawkeye). If that sounds better, I'll write it up and then make a difficult decision about which will be my final entry.

[MoleMage]

Alright, some more reviews are upon us!

Spoiler: KOLEs Ranger Remixed

Show

At a glance, it looks like you are of the same opinion as me: the base ranger is two to three classes trying to be one class. I approve of the removal of spellcasting from the base class (and the inclusion of spellcasting in the Warden archetype, as it allows the ranger to focus on one identity as its core identity.

• Favored Enemy: As much as I liked the idea of a ranger specializing in different prey, it doesn't translate well as a D&D class because either the feature is too weak to let other features be most of the power, or it's too strong and the class doesn't function when not fighting that type of prey. This version of favored enemy is better. Adding Quarry die every attack is also very nice for two-weapon-fighting ranger, though I worry about the relative power of archery or dueling ranger as a consequence. Relentless pursuer comes online at a good level where players should be thinking about taking more short rests, parallel to Font of Inspiration.
• Natural Exporer: Basically the same as core but without choosing terrain. This is fine for the same reasons as above with favored enemy.
• Ranger's Balm: An odd little support feature. It's okay as-is. I'm not sure about doubling constitution bonus with the 7th level upgrade. I would leave it at 1x Con bonus (they already get 1x Con from spending the dice). If you want to keep a larger bonus, maybe make it the Ranger's Wisdom plus the target's Con, so that low-Con characters still enjoy this.
• Skirmisher: I was worried about the damage output but then remembered that this uses the bonus action, preventing the offhand attacks with TWF. This is a fine alternate way to get that Quarry die for when your foe is out of reach.
• Ambusher: Like Skirmisher but for hiding. Somewhat weak for an 11th level feature (it gives you better Opportunity Attacks, but the stuff on your turn is just choosing which of three bonus actions you're going to use to get an extra quarry die; for TWF this is the weakest option (doesn't close distance, doesn't add Dex), for Archery it's a huge buff though because it's the only option for adding quarry dice on a bonus action. Archery (and Duelist) should probably get QD options earlier (as QD favor TWF by default).
• Relentless Storm: It's good, though it competes with Skirmisher and Ambusher (and TWF) for your bonus action each round, it makes up for it with the extra 1d10+Weapon per turn (or 1d10+2xWeapon if you're ranged or duelist).
• Foe Slayer: A worthy capstone that has the potential (assuming you managed to cap dex in your build) of increasing your accuracy tremendously or your damage respectably. As with many of the other features, it actually synergizes strongly with TWF because more attacks means more chances to trigger the bonus damage.

Overall, I think that (and I can't believe I get to say this), options to allow Archery and Duelist to access Quarry Dice as well as TWF should exist earlier than they do. Two-Weapon Fighting gets 3 chances at quarry dice out the gate, and while Duelist can double up on quarry dice with Skirmisher at level 6, Archery doesn't get anything better than Attack+Extra Attack until Ambusher at 11. You've done it! You've made a class that's better at Two-Weapon Fighting than at other things!

Subclasses

• Beast: Other than the addition of Quarry Dice to animal companion while targeting your favored creature, it looks like UA Ranger's Beast Conclave at a glance. I think that this is a good quality of life bonus without being too over-the-top. Syngergizes well with Archery as they always have someone to get in bad guys' faces for them.
• Hunter: It borrows Superiority Dice from Battlemaster, but it also gets unique combat abilities. I'm worried about the potential power, as Battlemaster's power is completely tied to Superiority Dice, but not having them increase in size probably compensates for Defensive Tactics and Multiattack Defense fairly well. As a subclass, it isn't very exciting.
• Hunter's Steel Will and Gloom's Iron Mind come a fair bit earlier than other classes which grant a third saving throw proficiency (usually in the low teens). I would move both to later.
• Gloom Conclave: Stalker's Flurry is giving me a hard time finding the balance point. Your potential damage output isn't any higher, but your expected damage output gets a pretty big spike. I'd have to see it in play. Shadowy Dodge seems fine as it consumes your reaction.
• Warden: This is my favorite of the ranger classes, possibly because it reminds me most of 3.5 rangers (who honestly had the same three classes in a trenchcoat problem, but somehow seemed more fun. I would like to see some of the ranger-exclusive spells other than Hunter's Mark return to this subclass, but I can understand why you just went with ranger instead.

I'll get a full review up for the Samurai tomorrow, but at a glance I like it in concept and Holy Strike is too strong on a fighter chassis.

EDIT: I did a stealth update this morning that added Aqua and Animus sorcery details. The remaining sorceries other than Daemonis, a bit of Lux, and some calling sorceries should all be fairly utilitous or defensive now; so far my "cleric" looks an awful lot like a blaster, but that's because their damage sorceries come first alphabetically.

[sengmeng]

h
I'll get a full review up for the Samurai tomorrow, but at a glance I like it in concept and Holy Strike is too strong on a fightwe chassis.

I'm not sure what I was thinking. That archetype will only end up with 5 + wis modifier for ki points, so I thought that was enough of a circumstantial limit, but I changed it to costing a ki point for a 1d8 damage boost (and later 2d8 for one ki point).

[MoleMage]

I'm not sure what I was thinking. That archetype will only end up with 5 + wis modifier for ki points, so I thought that was enough of a circumstantial limit, but I changed it to costing a ki point for a 1d8 damage boost (and later 2d8 for one ki point).

Forgot about Good Omens miniseries releasing yesterday, so I never got to the review. One day late is better than never, though, so here's the review for the Samurai!

Spoiler: Samurai

Show

I like that you added Ki Block as an alternate to Action Surge. Gives samurai its own thing in addition to its own options.

Fighting Styles

• Yojimbo most directly compares to Protection. It's advantages (use any weapon instead of one-handed, benefit from reach) don't really outweigh the losses (melee-only, enemy can target you), though.
• Iaijitsu: A good option for dex fighters and the Alert feat. I'd use it.
• The Five Rings: Two-Weapon Fighting adds more value (unless this lets you add your ability modifier to the reaction attack, then this is a little ahead), but this adds more interaction. It's fun, but a little underpowered.
• Great Bow: This is cool, but most combat will take place inside the short range of a longbow anyway. Would be useful in getting early shots off more easily when ambushing, but I'd rather take Iaijitsu and add damage on my first rounds' attacks.
• Dairokkan: It gives an option for the Ki-focused Samurai. Worthwhile if you're pumping Wis and Dex anyway.
• Kenjutsu: The problem here is that changing the stat for a versatile weapon doesn't really improve the performance of the weapon. Yes, your armor class will be a little better, but the fact remains that Full Plate is still better AC than max Dex Light Armor. This also does nothing for sword and shield play due to the two-hands requirement, taking away the key virtue of versatile weapons (namely, versatility).

Overall, the options other than Iaijitsu come across as fairly weak. Iaijitsu is very strong in the first round of combat (easily +10 or +15 damage), and would feel good to use even if its long term power isn't high, but most of the other ones are lateral moves or too situational. All of these options are also very Dex oriented (only Yojimbo is better with Strength, because the good Reach weapons are all Str), leaving full-plate (full-lamellar?) Samurai without a good choice.

Core Features

• Ki Block: This is a fun feature. Should specify that the effect must target you ("any effect which involves an attack roll against you or which forces you to make a saving throw"). It might be too strong right out the gate (since your Str+Prof or Dex+Prof are almost always going to be better than any of your saves other than Strength or Dex), though the fairly limited number of Ki points available to this class does offset the power.
• Impenetrable Will: Will saves should be Wisdom saves. The active portion suffers because it has to compete with Ki Block; while Advantage is generally better for making moderate rolls, the additional bonus offered by proficiency allows difficult saves to succeed, and by the time you get this your proficiency is valued roughly the same as advantage (if I recall, advantage is valued at ~+4-5).
• Improved Ki Block: Impenetrable Will is completely overshadowed by this improvement. For 1 ki point, I can replace 2 saves with attack rolls to which I probably have bonuses beyond Stat+Prof at this point, compared to gaining advantage on a single save in which I am not proficient.
• Warrior's Soul: A small but significant buff. Could be more exciting for a level 17 feature, but Core Fighters just get more resources here too, so it doesn't have to be.

Overall, I think Ki Block is too strong. I don't know how to fix it off hand. Maybe take away the saving throw usage and give some secondary benefit to blocking an attack with it? That would separate it from Impenetrable Will.

Subclasses

• Ronin: Shadow Warrior should read "samurai level", because as written a Ronin 3/Rogue 3 would sneak attack as Rogue 9. The sneak attack scaling is probably too high at the moment as well (Ronin has both the best ki to damage ratio and the greatest number of ki points of the options presented thanks to full sneak attack).
• Ronin: Shadow Walk is probably okay, though the invisibility is a little open to interpretation (if I move, attack, move, am I invisible for the attack?).
• Kensai: Ki Divinity needs a duration. Is the intent that Lawful Good and Chaotic Good are immune to the effects normally affecting Lawful or Chaotic characters? What about Lawful Neutral (is it both Frightened and Charmed?). It's a cool feature, just needs the wording tightened up a bit, and maybe the range or number of targets reduced (right now it's functionally "every enemy within 30 feet").
• Kensai: (Improved) Holy Strike's new form is much better. This is a good target point for other ki damage abilities in my opinion.
• Kensai: Flesh Made Whole is pretty underwhelming at 10th level (allow extra ki for upcasting maybe?) and it needs to specify a casting stat (I assume Wisdom).
• Master Samurai: Enhanced Fighting Style. I've been trying to think of good ways to handle a weapons' master for a while, and I think this direction is a good one for that.
• Enhanced Iaijitsu: As with the base version, this is my number one pick. I get to go first more, which means I also get to add damage more frequently, and on top of that the added damage is higher.
• Enhanced Great Bow: Unless you also have a revamped Sharpshooter, I'd skip this. Sharpshooter already ignores disadvantage for long range on top its other benefits. If you do have a revamped Sharpshooter I'm fine with that, it and GWM are a little too strong anyway.
• Enhanced Five Rings: A nice boost. This actually does put Five Rings ahead of the base fighter's Two-Weapon Fighting, especially if ability modifiers are allowed on the reaction attacks.
• Enhanced Dairokkan: Studded Leather +Max Dex +Max Wis puts my Armor class at 22, without a shield. This is equal to a level 20 barbarian with 20 Dex and 24 Con (though the barbarian can also get a shield to pull ahead), and 1 higher than Full Plate + Protection + Shield in a baseline fighter. A little too strong; I would allow a max of +2 Wis regardless of armor worn (allowing you to replace your shield with a moderate Wisdom score).
• Enhanced Kenjutsu: For the same reasons as the base version, this doesn't actually improve the fighter's potential, unless they get both Enhanced Kenjutsu and Enhanced Dairokkan (unavailable until level 18).
• Master Samurai: Weapon Master/Dedicated Warrior/Peak Warrior: I would put a limit here that these bonuses don't stack with magic weapons to keep the class in the expected accuracy bounds. Other than that should be fine.

Overall, I think that the subclasses have good thematics, but their balance needs a touchup. The damage output on Ronin is too high and too efficient for it to be the subclass with all the extra ki points. Kensai has a good ki-to-damage ratio but not enough ki to use it for very long; and Ki Divinity is too widely usable for its low cost. Master Samurai is just about right, but the Enhanced Fighting Styles are inconsistent in their power (a carry over from my concerns in the base fighting styles above).

Summary: I like the direction this class is taking. Some of the features are too widely applicable (esp. Ki Block and Shadow Warrior), and some of the fighting styles feel too lateral or situational (esp. Great Bow and Kenjutsu), but the theme is well fitted. Add more options for Strength-based Samurai and touch up some of the details above and I think you'll be in a good place. Let me know when you're ready for another look and I'll be happy to take one.

[sengmeng]

I find breaking up quotes tedious, so I'm going to just make my comments blue.

Forgot about Good Omens miniseries releasing yesterday, so I never got to the review. One day late is better than never, though, so here's the review for the Samurai! Very understandable; this was an awesome book and I need to check it out too :)

I like that you added Ki Block as an alternate to Action Surge. Gives samurai its own thing in addition to its own options.

Fighting Styles

• Yojimbo most directly compares to Protection. It's advantages (use any weapon instead of one-handed, benefit from reach) don't really outweigh the losses (melee-only, enemy can target you), though. I just changed it to let you attack them. Not sure if it's better, but way less wordy
• Iaijitsu: A good option for dex fighters and the Alert feat. I'd use it. This plus Dairokkan is the key to being a thematic Samurai, IMO. My personal favorite as well
• The Five Rings: Two-Weapon Fighting adds more value (unless this lets you add your ability modifier to the reaction attack, then this is a little ahead), but this adds more interaction. It's fun, but a little underpowered. Added wordage to let you add your ability bonus.
• Great Bow: This is cool, but most combat will take place inside the short range of a longbow anyway. Would be useful in getting early shots off more easily when ambushing, but I'd rather take Iaijitsu and add damage on my first rounds' attacks. Added plus 1 damage inside "close" range (the original normal range). May change due to the clunkiness of tracking three ranges.
• Dairokkan: It gives an option for the Ki-focused Samurai. Worthwhile if you're pumping Wis and Dex anyway.
• Kenjutsu: The problem here is that changing the stat for a versatile weapon doesn't really improve the performance of the weapon. Yes, your armor class will be a little better, but the fact remains that Full Plate is still better AC than max Dex Light Armor. This also does nothing for sword and shield play due to the two-hands requirement, taking away the key virtue of versatile weapons (namely, versatility).IDC about shield use on a samurai; the fighter still exists and is meant to be used in the same setting to build martial characters that wouldn't fit well in this class. Still, I now added wordage that you also add your strength bonus to damage, so dex to hit and strength plus dex to damage, but the die size stays at the one handed size (averaging one less point, so you gain your strength bonus -1 on a finesses attack essentially. I think this fits the normal two-handed katana style of swordsmanship; it is a combination of strength and dexterity that comes out just a tiny hair ahead of some ruffian swinging a weapon twice as large through pure strength.

Overall, the options other than Iaijitsu come across as fairly weak. Iaijitsu is very strong in the first round of combat (easily +10 or +15 damage), and would feel good to use even if its long term power isn't high, but most of the other ones are lateral moves or too situational. All of these options are also very Dex oriented (only Yojimbo is better with Strength, because the good Reach weapons are all Str), leaving full-plate (full-lamellar?) Samurai without a good choice.

Core Features

• Ki Block: This is a fun feature. Should specify that the effect must target you ("any effect which involves an attack roll against you or which forces you to make a saving throw"). It might be too strong right out the gate (since your Str+Prof or Dex+Prof are almost always going to be better than any of your saves other than Strength or Dex), though the fairly limited number of Ki points available to this class does offset the power. Changed to only affect things with attack rolls. I like the idea of a samurai parrying almost anything with his sword, but Impenetrable Will needs something to actually do, so it got nerfed.
• Impenetrable Will: Will saves should be Wisdom saves. The active portion suffers because it has to compete with Ki Block; while Advantage is generally better for making moderate rolls, the additional bonus offered by proficiency allows difficult saves to succeed, and by the time you get this your proficiency is valued roughly the same as advantage (if I recall, advantage is valued at ~+4-5). Changed to proficiency with Wisdom saves while you have ki points remaining, and spend a ki point to get advantage on any save.
• Improved Ki Block: Impenetrable Will is completely overshadowed by this improvement. For 1 ki point, I can replace 2 saves with attack rolls to which I probably have bonuses beyond Stat+Prof at this point, compared to gaining advantage on a single save in which I am not proficient.
• Warrior's Soul: A small but significant buff. Could be more exciting for a level 17 feature, but Core Fighters just get more resources here too, so it doesn't have to be.My reasoning exactly.

Overall, I think Ki Block is too strong. I don't know how to fix it off hand. Maybe take away the saving throw usage and give some secondary benefit to blocking an attack with it? That would separate it from Impenetrable Will. Considering not expending the ki point if you succeed by 10 or more, but so far just took away the save capability.

Subclasses

• Ronin: Shadow Warrior should read "samurai level", because as written a Ronin 3/Rogue 3 would sneak attack as Rogue 9. The sneak attack scaling is probably too high at the moment as well (Ronin has both the best ki to damage ratio and the greatest number of ki points of the options presented thanks to full sneak attack). Revamped. No more mention of sneak attacks or rogue levels. Now if you have advantage and hit with an attack, you can spend up to all your ki points for 1d8 damage each
• Ronin: Shadow Walk is probably okay, though the invisibility is a little open to interpretation (if I move, attack, move, am I invisible for the attack?). Clarified. You poof into sight at the moment of attack
• Kensai: Ki Divinity needs a duration. Is the intent that Lawful Good and Chaotic Good are immune to the effects normally affecting Lawful or Chaotic characters? What about Lawful Neutral (is it both Frightened and Charmed?). It's a cool feature, just needs the wording tightened up a bit, and maybe the range or number of targets reduced (right now it's functionally "every enemy within 30 feet"). 10 minute duration added, now it's just charm neutral creatures, frighten evil creatures, can't affect good creatures, and law/chaos is irrelevant.
• Kensai: (Improved) Holy Strike's new form is much better. This is a good target point for other ki damage abilities in my opinion. Noted, and used to revamp Shadow Warrior.
• Kensai: Flesh Made Whole is pretty underwhelming at 10th level (allow extra ki for upcasting maybe?) and it needs to specify a casting stat (I assume Wisdom). Done.
• Master Samurai: Enhanced Fighting Style. I've been trying to think of good ways to handle a weapons' master for a while, and I think this direction is a good one for that.
• Enhanced Iaijitsu: As with the base version, this is my number one pick. I get to go first more, which means I also get to add damage more frequently, and on top of that the added damage is higher.
• Enhanced Great Bow: Unless you also have a revamped Sharpshooter, I'd skip this. Sharpshooter already ignores disadvantage for long range on top its other benefits. If you do have a revamped Sharpshooter I'm fine with that, it and GWM are a little too strong anyway. Now gain advantage inside original normal range.
• Enhanced Five Rings: A nice boost. This actually does put Five Rings ahead of the base fighter's Two-Weapon Fighting, especially if ability modifiers are allowed on the reaction attacks. They do.
• Enhanced Dairokkan: Studded Leather +Max Dex +Max Wis puts my Armor class at 22, without a shield. This is equal to a level 20 barbarian with 20 Dex and 24 Con (though the barbarian can also get a shield to pull ahead), and 1 higher than Full Plate + Protection + Shield in a baseline fighter. A little too strong; I would allow a max of +2 Wis regardless of armor worn (allowing you to replace your shield with a moderate Wisdom score). Done.
• Enhanced Kenjutsu: For the same reasons as the base version, this doesn't actually improve the fighter's potential, unless they get both Enhanced Kenjutsu and Enhanced Dairokkan (unavailable until level 18). Might be too strong now, as it also gets dex and strength on damage.
• Master Samurai: Weapon Master/Dedicated Warrior/Peak Warrior: I would put a limit here that these bonuses don't stack with magic weapons to keep the class in the expected accuracy bounds. Other than that should be fine.

Overall, I think that the subclasses have good thematics, but their balance needs a touchup. The damage output on Ronin is too high and too efficient for it to be the subclass with all the extra ki points. Kensai has a good ki-to-damage ratio but not enough ki to use it for very long; and Ki Divinity is too widely usable for its low cost. Master Samurai is just about right, but the Enhanced Fighting Styles are inconsistent in their power (a carry over from my concerns in the base fighting styles above). Ronin can now burst damage with the same ratio, but Kensai gained a couple more ki points and can burst heal. May adjust Ki Divinity to have a target limit and ability to spend more ki to target more creatures, maybe a number equal to Wisdom bonus per ki point?

Summary: I like the direction this class is taking. Some of the features are too widely applicable (esp. Ki Block and Shadow Warrior), and some of the fighting styles feel too lateral or situational (esp. Great Bow and Kenjutsu), but the theme is well fitted. Add more options for Strength-based Samurai and touch up some of the details above and I think you'll be in a good place. Let me know when you're ready for another look and I'll be happy to take one.I think the strength-based Samurai has better options now, but as I said before, this is for building stuff the fighter currently falls short of and is not a fighter replacement.
Sorry if I'm on here to much; take your time on looking over it again. I appreciate the in depth review. I will try to do the same, but, well, you see my sense of balance, so I'm not sure how helpful my opinions are.

[KOLE]

I actually think it's too weak of a benefit. The base Ranger already has the Hunter archetype that at level 3 can add 1d8 dmg to an attack every turn. Adding even 1d10 to only your marked target is kind of weak.

Hunters only add a d8 once per turn. At level one, you're adding d4 to every attack against a single enemy, with TWF that's the same average two levels early, and it levels well because it scales with extra attack. Plus, by level 5, even if you're focusing on Dex over Wisdom, you can drop this 4-6 times an adventuring day.

Barbarians get crazy attack and damage bonuses through rage against all targets.

I think this is an unfair comparison since Barb's, notoriously, can ONLY deal damage, and even then only up close. This Ranger has a lot going for them.

At a glance, it looks like you are of the same opinion as me: the base ranger is two to three classes trying to be one class. I approve of the removal of spellcasting from the base class (and the inclusion of spellcasting in the Warden archetype, as it allows the ranger to focus on one identity as its core identity.)

This is a struggle for me. I enjoy half casters, they're a great niche and a terrific balance. I love casters but sometimes I wanna close the gap and do some damage. IMO, Ranger should be two different classes, a dedicated Switch Hitter badass, and a Half Caster with more focus on support and utility that leans further into Druid. But I understand the desire to not overbloat 5e. I think this might be the best compromise.

Favored Enemy: As much as I liked the idea of a ranger specializing in different prey, it doesn't translate well as a D&D class because either the feature is too weak to let other features be most of the power, or it's too strong and the class doesn't function when not fighting that type of prey. This version of favored enemy is better. Adding Quarry die every attack is also very nice for two-weapon-fighting ranger, though I worry about the relative power of archery or dueling ranger as a consequence. Relentless pursuer comes online at a good level where players should be thinking about taking more short rests, parallel to Font of Inspiration.

To me personally, Hunter's Mark is a no-brainer staple on any Ranger, as there's very little worth concentrating on in their repertoire. Favored Enemy is too ingrained to the identity to axe. So, it made perfect sense to combine the two, and bake it right into the class, sort of how Polymorph was baked into Druid as Wild Shape, and how Eldritch Blast is a core part of the Warlock (for better or worse). I too worry about how potent TWF is in this iteration, it's my primary concern for balancing this.

Ranger's Balm: An odd little support feature. It's okay as-is. I'm not sure about doubling constitution bonus with the 7th level upgrade. I would leave it at 1x Con bonus (they already get 1x Con from spending the dice). If you want to keep a larger bonus, maybe make it the Ranger's Wisdom plus the target's Con, so that low-Con characters still enjoy this.

My justification for this is Ranger's are terrific healers with Cure Wounds, Goodberry, and the notorious (and oft-banned) Healing Spirit. Losing spellcasting takes this away from them. I like the idea of "Ranger Salves" like the UA spell-less ranger, but find it awkward and clumsy in practice. Having them be short-rest healing helpers fits their identity in my mind and keeps that support element without taking anything from them in combat. Good note on the double-con point, I like your suggestion much better.

Skirmisher: I was worried about the damage output but then remembered that this uses the bonus action, preventing the offhand attacks with TWF. This is a fine alternate way to get that Quarry die for when your foe is out of reach.

Bonus Action implementation was very conscious balancing decision throughout this.

Ambusher: Like Skirmisher but for hiding. Somewhat weak for an 11th level feature (it gives you better Opportunity Attacks, but the stuff on your turn is just choosing which of three bonus actions you're going to use to get an extra quarry die; for TWF this is the weakest option (doesn't close distance, doesn't add Dex), for Archery it's a huge buff though because it's the only option for adding quarry dice on a bonus action. Archery (and Duelist) should probably get QD options earlier (as QD favor TWF by default).

I 100% understand where you're coming from here. I really struggled with the decision here. I wanted to put Skirmisher and Ambusher closer together in progression, but could not find a way to make it happen. More on this in another note.

Relentless Storm: It's good, though it competes with Skirmisher and Ambusher (and TWF) for your bonus action each round, it makes up for it with the extra 1d10+Weapon per turn (or 1d10+2xWeapon if you're ranged or duelist).

It serves two purposes: 1, it adds my favorite ranger spell (swift quiver) to the class so it's not lost, 2, it adds a little more in the scales to archery and duelist. You're getting a huge boost for those styles, and only a little extra for TWF.

Overall, I think that (and I can't believe I get to say this), options to allow Archery and Duelist to access Quarry Dice as well as TWF should exist earlier than they do. Two-Weapon Fighting gets 3 chances at quarry dice out the gate, and while Duelist can double up on quarry dice with Skirmisher at level 6, Archery doesn't get anything better than Attack+Extra Attack until Ambusher at 11. You've done it! You've made a class that's better at Two-Weapon Fighting than at other things!

Here's my justification for this: first of all, Ranger's are skewed towards TWF from the start. They are a class that leans heavily on Dex and get fighting styles. The fighting style is required to be good at TWF, and they get it. Ranger's get very little in return for going SnB, and they're already really good with a bow. To me, a ranger always has to choose between specializing in a bow or TWF. And the scales are tipped heavily in favor of the bow. Fighting at Range is really good in 5e. TWF leaves you behind in AC and very vulnerable. I wanted the choice to be harder, so TWF had to be competitive, especially when Sharpshooter is added to the equation. I think all in all there's still a decent balance here, but I'd like input on that. I may have to crunch some numbers.

As a note, the Beast and Gloom conclave are direct copies of the UA and XGtE entries, respectively. They are simply place holders while I convert them. The Hunter and Warden conclaves are rough drafts.

[MoleMage]

I think the strength-based Samurai has better options now, but as I said before, this is for building stuff the fighter currently falls short of and is not a fighter replacement.
Sorry if I'm on here to much; take your time on looking over it again. I appreciate the in depth review. I will try to do the same, but, well, you see my sense of balance, so I'm not sure how helpful my opinions are.

Looking over your changes I think you've addressed the problems I mentioned fairly well. Enhanced Great Bow does give me rogue multiclassing concerns, but I'm not actually sure the 2d6 lost sneak attack dice are worth it; getting sneak attack in 5e isn't exactly difficult normally.

For the Theurge, if you can't analyze balance that's fine. It has a lot of stuff going on, so balance is going to be a little blurry until it's tested in play. I am interested in whether the class's new mechanics look fun, though. I'm considering toning down the number of sorceries known/channeled to about 70-80% of what it is now; each individual sorcery has a lot of options and there's no resource cost to change what you're channeling.

Today marks the half-way point on the core class's sorceries. If you include the 6 Calling-exclusive sorceries that means I'm at 11 out of 26 sorceries written! Woo! Newly added: Augur, Caelum, Corpus, Daemonis.

[MoleMage]

So my internet went out in a storm last week and I am waiting on my replacement equipment to arrive so I can resume updating the Theurge. How is everyone else's entries coming? Feeling good? Bout a month left.

EDIT: Went out to a public wifi spot today to get a little progress in. The Theurge Sorceries now have a new post because I hit the word limit on the old one. I'm now finished with 14 out of 20 base sorceries (Everything through Fortuna plus Vitae). The Theurge itself is updated with a slower progression of both sorceries known and sorceries channeled.

[Fnissalot]

Added the warden, my take on the ranger. It is a ranger that has been flipped around a bit and is instead structured more like a warlock? It gains much of its versability through its tricks (its version of invocations). That is combined with choices of favoured terrain that give more flavourful differences and its prey being the flavour of the subclasses. The class does not have any spellcasting in its base package, instead you get a familiar like animal companion that can be upgraded through the tricks. The tricks are also flavoured around druidic and ritual magic, mobile combat feats, and survival skills.

I took far longer than expected to finish a full class. I have no idea about the balance on a lot of the things. It became a bit too many options for me to get a full overview of all of them. Some are meant to be more beneficial while other are more thematic.

[MoleMage]

Added the warden, my take on the ranger. It is a ranger that has been flipped around a bit and is instead structured more like a warlock? It gains much of its versability through its tricks (its version of invocations). That is combined with choices of favoured terrain that give more flavourful differences and its prey being the flavour of the subclasses. The class does not have any spellcasting in its base package, instead you get a familiar like animal companion that can be upgraded through the tricks. The tricks are also flavoured around druidic and ritual magic, mobile combat feats, and survival skills.

I took far longer than expected to finish a full class. I have no idea about the balance on a lot of the things. It became a bit too many options for me to get a full overview of all of them. Some are meant to be more beneficial while other are more thematic.

It is a bit of an investment, but it looks like you finished all your polish up before bringing it in, which adds a bit to it (whereas I still have like 9 sorceries to write and a little less than two weeks to write them...guh).

Some feedback for Warden:

Spoiler: Feedback

Show

• Base Class
• As with the Revised Ranger above, you have removed spells. My reasoning that this is a good idea still holds.
• I like the introduction of Territory-specific effects that work anywhere. This solves the biggest problem with Natural Explorer.
• I hadn't really considered making the Favored Enemy the subclass before seeing this. It seems like a good way to introduce a bunch of features related to, but not exclusive to, the favored foe. Kudos.
• Animal Companion is now built into the base class. This is a mixed blessing; it would mean that there's a pet-using base class (right now there isn't), but it also means a lot of bookkeeping. It is otherwise fine.
• It's odd to me that Tools of the Land doesn't arrive until 2 levels after you pick your first Territory, but I recognize that this is necessary for feature spacing.
• Senses of the Predators: Why is the proficiency bonus doubled only for passive perception?

Tricks

• I like that you've put the beast improvements into tricks. This allows the ranger to have the utility companion for free but invest if they want it to be a primary combat ally.
• Ditto the magic-like tricks. Some of the ranger's old tendencies show through without being mandatory.
• I did somewhat expect Fighting Styles to be in the base class, but I can understand putting them here, and it opens up options for Rangers who don't want to use one of the Fighting Style weapon types (such as reach weapons).
• Lifeforce of the Wild could have a larger usage pool (maybe half level instead) and still be balanced, especially considering that Rangers gave up their baseline healing ability.
• I would have liked Hunter's Mark or a similar function to appear as a trick, as it was an iconic spell of the original class.

Banes

• Titansbane really captures the idea of fighting large enemies while giving smaller benefits against small enemies. This is about what I expected to find when I saw how you had split out the subclasses, so well done.
• Primalbane: You should specify where Primordial Ward is located, since it isn't in the PHB. This is just a personal preference.
• Horrorsbane: This might be my favorite subclass in the thread. Fringe Insight should probably also reveal Sunlight Sensitivity (it also has a typo "if it is affected by in[sic] magical darkness").
• Horrorsbane: The "condition fear" should be the "frightened condition".
• Myriadsbane: Domino Effect is great. Really sells the killing hordes of mooks fantasy of the subclass.
• Shiftersbane: Clad in Armaments comes along pretty late, but given the flexibility of this subclass that should be fine.

Overall, your subclasses are top notch, and the base class is pretty good too. I noticed a lot of your features use "do an action" where the normal wording would be "take an action", and at least one case in Magebane said "do a saving throw" where the normal is "make a saving throw". I recommend a general proofreading pass in a day or so. But for actual design I think this is great, especially for your first entry.

[MoleMage]

The latest update represents the completion of all standard Theurge sorceries. I still need to do the calling-only sorceries, but every subclass except Nature and Storm is technically playable, and all of those except Light and Trickery are fully complete.

[Fnissalot]

Thanks for the feedback!

Spoiler: Feedback

Show

• Base Class
• As with the Revised Ranger above, you have removed spells. My reasoning that this is a good idea still holds. I agree!
• I like the introduction of Territory-specific effects that work anywhere. This solves the biggest problem with Natural Explorer. Thanks! I didn't want the terrain choice to feel superficial or too situational.
• I hadn't really considered making the Favored Enemy the subclass before seeing this. It seems like a good way to introduce a bunch of features related to, but not exclusive to, the favored foe. Kudos. Thanks!
• Animal Companion is now built into the base class. This is a mixed blessing; it would mean that there's a pet-using base class (right now there isn't), but it also means a lot of bookkeeping. It is otherwise fine. I did this to give the class a bit more identity. I think the current ranger has an mechanical lack of identity in 5e. It suffers from being inbetween one spell (hunters mark) and having a bunch of skills.
• It's odd to me that Tools of the Land doesn't arrive until 2 levels after you pick your first Territory, but I recognize that this is necessary for feature spacing. It was placed there due to spacing. It was earlier at first but it looked too frontloaded. I could switch it with the second trick.
• Senses of the Predators: Why is the proficiency bonus doubled only for passive perception? I wrote the first part of the feature first andwanted the ability too feel more like reliable senses rather than extremely high values. I couldn't think of a better way to handle the passive perception in the same way.

Tricks

• I like that you've put the beast improvements into tricks. This allows the ranger to have the utility companion for free but invest if they want it to be a primary combat ally. Thanks!
• Ditto the magic-like tricks. Some of the ranger's old tendencies show through without being mandatory. Thanks!
• I did somewhat expect Fighting Styles to be in the base class, but I can understand putting them here, and it opens up options for Rangers who don't want to use one of the Fighting Style weapon types (such as reach weapons). Most will probably choose it, but I don't think it is important enough to force it on players. If you want to be more spellbased, get more hunting utility, or focus on your companion you can do so first.
• Lifeforce of the Wild could have a larger usage pool (maybe half level instead) and still be balanced, especially considering that Rangers gave up their baseline healing ability. I was carefull with this to not overdo it. I did not want it to step on the toes of the other healing options. I think half level will be too much if you can also replenish them by expending uses of your tricks.
• I would have liked Hunter's Mark or a similar function to appear as a trick, as it was an iconic spell of the original class. I avoided that spell on purpose. It is in my opinion destructive for the class. Why should you ever use your spell slots for anything else? But I kept half of it, the Tracker's Mark trick is the spell without the bonus damage to weapon attacks.

Banes

• Titansbane really captures the idea of fighting large enemies while giving smaller benefits against small enemies. This is about what I expected to find when I saw how you had split out the subclasses, so well done. Thanks and I agree that it is expected. =)
• Primalbane: You should specify where Primordial Ward is located, since it isn't in the PHB. This is just a personal preference. Good point!
• Horrorsbane: This might be my favorite subclass in the thread. Fringe Insight should probably also reveal Sunlight Sensitivity (it also has a typo "if it is affected by in[sic] magical darkness"). Thanks! That fits as well!
• Horrorsbane: The "condition fear" should be the "frightened condition". Good point!
• Myriadsbane: Domino Effect is great. Really sells the killing hordes of mooks fantasy of the subclass.
• Shiftersbane: Clad in Armaments comes along pretty late, but given the flexibility of this subclass that should be fine.

Overall, your subclasses are top notch, and the base class is pretty good too. I noticed a lot of your features use "do an action" where the normal wording would be "take an action", and at least one case in Magebane said "do a saving throw" where the normal is "make a saving throw". I recommend a general proofreading pass in a day or so. But for actual design I think this is great, especially for your first entry. Thanks and I will look over this when I get time!

[MoleMage]

One week left to make your edits or post your down-to-the-wire entries, everyone!

I'm still interested in feedback on the Theurge if anyone feels up to it.

[Bloodcloud]

I'm gonna vote for an extension... got something mostly cooked up, would be done with extension but can't post for now.

[MoleMage]

I'm gonna vote for an extension... got something mostly cooked up, would be done with extension but can't post for now.

Would two weeks be a long enough extension? I'm happy to implement one if it means one more entry.

[Bloodcloud]

I’ll make it work