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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Tarquin Should Have Made a Sequel

    So it occurs to me that Tarquin botched his chance with Elan.
    When I was first reading the book I was hoping they would part amicably. I hoped Tarquin would end up being a sign that even the bad guys don't want the world to end. I was even expecting it because I regarded Tarquin as a rational actor and he had no good reason to fight Elan. That was before Tarquin jumped off the slippery slope and how far gone he was was revealed.
    Now I've been thinking about Tarquin's goals and what he should have done. His goal was to be the main villain and force Elan to defeat him as the hero. His error of judgement was assuming that he was the main villain and that Xykon was a side boss.
    When it became clear that Elan thought of Roy as the main hero, he flipped the board. He burned up what goodwill he had left, leading Elan to drop the plot thread.
    It occurs to me that this was the last thing Tarquin should have done. Xykon is the main villain and Tarquin has only just entered. Hijacking control of a story from an already established villain never works out. It screams 'arc villain.'
    What he should have done was set up for a sequel. Order Stickier.
    He should have just let the Order of the Stick go on their merry way with his help. This would allow him to pretend as if he engineered the downfall of Xykon. Thus establishing him as the greater villain. From there he should speed up his plans and go about trying to consolidate his power over his continent.
    If all goes well the Vector Legion will have established a full on empire. They can come into the limelight as darklords in their own right. This will raise their threat level considerably as they start conquering foreign countries.
    The Order of the Stick have already decided to go back and beat Tarquin. And he will by now have been revealed before everyone as a diabolical mastermind. In this situation, Roy's character arc is done. He has defeated his archenemy and is now merely a supporting leader protagonist. Elan is the one with a personal connection to Tarquin.
    Durkon and Malack could have a rivalry. Belkar would already be dead by this stage, so he could be replaced by Sabine or something. Vaarsuvius has already had one showdown with Laurin. It could easily make a rivalry.
    In fact, in this situation, Tarquin is from a narrative perspective much more likely to kill off Roy. After all, Tarquin regards Roy as a worthy opponent and Elan is the hero of Order Sticker. In Tarquin's worldview this would mean Roy would lose to him at some point.
    Of course this wouldn't be a perfect setup. And the plot would be lower stakes than the Snarl, but I could see it making a decent sequel. Maybe Tarquin comes up with a plan to become a god or something for a suitably climactic moment.
    That said, I suspect that Tarquin would eventually get usurped in his role as main villain. The Vector Legion is very much a big bad ensemble. He probably wouldn't have been nearly as important as he would hope to be. But he would still be far more likely to get what he wants than by doing what he actually did. And even if Roy was still the main hero, Elan being the one to kill Tarquin isn't mandatory. Tarquin could still become a legend if he was defeated by Roy with an assist from his son. He'd just need to make the rivalry personal enough.

    Not that i think this SHOULD have happened. After a certain point, continuing a story detracts from the quality of previous installments. But if Tarquin had been a bit more of a long term thinker he probably could have pulled this off.
    What do you think?
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    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Tarquin Should Have Made a Sequel

    If Tarquin was capable of thinking this way, he'd be an entirely different character.
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    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: Tarquin Should Have Made a Sequel

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord View Post
    I hoped Tarquin would end up being a sign that even the bad guys don't want the world to end.
    Eh, I'm not a fan of retreads.
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    Default Re: Tarquin Should Have Made a Sequel

    Tarquin is too egotistical to think that way. He is the main villain, and therefore his Good-aligned son must be the hero.
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Tarquin Should Have Made a Sequel

    Despite overestimating his own role in the comic, Tarquin almost got right the part in which he was content with letting the Order continue their quest to defeat Xykon. Even though Tarquin was wrong at assuming Xykon was a sub-boss, the outcome would have been the same - He would have survived as future main villian for a Sequel.

    The part were he blundered truly was in his insistence that his son had to be the main hero. Had Tarquin let Elan go away as comic relief for the current story, the Bard could have been the main hero of a spinoff, featuring Tarquin as main villian.

    Alas, Tarquin was too egotistical, and too short-sighted.

    As things have played out, though, Tarquin will be killed off-screen by a gang of second-stringers, the tale of his demise never to be told but as a side note of the Epiloge, at best.
    Last edited by The Pilgrim; 2019-05-14 at 01:01 PM.

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    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Default Re: Tarquin Should Have Made a Sequel

    What do we know about Tarquin? He likes to hide his face in a helmet, he likes to disguise his voice, he moves fast with women, and he is probably a whole lot shorter after falling off a airship.

    Hmm.....

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    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: Tarquin Should Have Made a Sequel

    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    What do we know about Tarquin? He likes to hide his face in a helmet, he likes to disguise his voice, he moves fast with women, and he is probably a whole lot shorter after falling off a airship.

    Hmm.....
    He's not a dwarf...
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    Default Re: Tarquin Should Have Made a Sequel

    He doesn't have a beard.

    Also, Tarquin knows that the bad guy of the ffirst installment is generally the most iconic and often tends to upstage laater vilains.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Tarquin Should Have Made a Sequel

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    He doesn't have a beard.

    Also, Tarquin knows that the bad guy of the ffirst installment is generally the most iconic and often tends to upstage laater vilains.
    Actually, Tarquin knows that it is the bad guy of the SECOND installment that is typically the one who upstages later villains, as the first one is typically a one-off guy.
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    GreataxeFighterGirl

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    Default Re: Tarquin Should Have Made a Sequel

    But it's the third installment where the biggest baddest bosses come into the game!

    ...I'm not too sure what franchise I'm quoting.

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    Default Re: Tarquin Should Have Made a Sequel

    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    Actually, Tarquin knows that it is the bad guy of the SECOND installment that is typically the one who upstages later villains, as the first one is typically a one-off guy.
    Die Hard 2 disagrees.
    Quote Originally Posted by understatement View Post
    But it's the third installment where the biggest baddest bosses come into the game!
    Die Hard 3 disagrees.
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Tarquin Should Have Made a Sequel

    Well, Lex Luthor is not Superman's oldest enemy, neither is The Joker for Batman. Not sure if their first ones are still around, though.

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    Default Re: Tarquin Should Have Made a Sequel

    If Tarquin were a flawless portrayal of a villain mastermind, what you suggested would be a correct act on his part. In fact, this was similar to what he was actually aiming at until Nale revealed he killed Malack and continued to defy Tarquin. Nale's killing is largely inconsequential. But then Tarquin decides to lash out against the narrative itself and that leads to his downfall.

    I see two ''good'' options for playing the villain card instead of trying to kill Roy. The first is what you suggested: keep the friendly facade, offer help and watch the heroes squirm as they decide whether to taint themselves with accepting help from evil bastard, or whether to initiate unprovoked, destructive unnecessary conflict with side villain in lieu of trying their best to save the world from Xykon.

    The second option I see is the more ruthless one: basically flap Ian's Wanted poster in Elan's face, state openly that since Girard's gate is no longer a threat to Empire, Tarquin is going to return to his empire and his foolish son and his little gang is free to do whatever they choose, knowing that every second they waste chasing Zyklon, dozens more slaves bite the dust and Ian's chances are diminishing. And just pop away via Laurin's Gate and let them pick between various decisions with bitter consequences. Now, this approach begs for curbstomp crush of the villain similar to what Tarquin's illusion described in dream wedding to Elan, but at that point the Order was physically incapable of doing it.

    However, the Giant does not portray flawless characters in his story. Tarquin isn't flawless either, and at the crucial point he failed to contain his ego, which overuled his villain's instinct.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Tarquin Should Have Made a Sequel

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Die Hard 2 disagrees.

    Die Hard 3 disagrees.
    Clearly the 4th installment is the correct answer, so long as that villain is Timothy Olyphant. Live Free or Die Hard agrees.

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    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: Tarquin Should Have Made a Sequel

    Quote Originally Posted by The Aboleth View Post
    Clearly the 4th installment is the correct answer, so long as that villain is Timothy Olyphant. Live Free or Die Hard agrees.
    Die Hard 4 disagrees.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Tarquin Should Have Made a Sequel

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Die Hard 4 disagrees.
    Looks like someone just committed a 5-87.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Tarquin Should Have Made a Sequel

    Tarquin is not a rational actor. He’s a petulant egotistical smug sexist POS who’s just smart enough to fool himself into thinking he’s a genius, much like Elan is just smart enough to realize that he’s an idiot. Tarquin’s delusions are a useful tool, but they’re unreliable, a fact that seems to have left with a crippling need to be in control of any situation he’s in. Combine that with an inability to grasp that anyone in the world other than himself and maybe his sons are actual people with feelings, or, at least, that he should care about said feelings and...You have a father who makes Eugene look loving and supportive, a narracist incapable of understanding his sons’ “story” as anything but an extension of his own, and who would never be satisfied unless he could get the whole universe to revolve around that story. He didn’t, because he couldn’t, because no one could, force the universe to center on him, and he wouldn’t be happy unless it did.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Tarquin Should Have Made a Sequel

    He could hae ade it seem like he engineeredthe whole thing from the start.
    Post xykon's defeat, a bunch of his soldiers brink the oots to him, where he does an epic monologue about how xykon was only a puppet.
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    Default Re: Tarquin Should Have Made a Sequel

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Die Hard 2 disagrees.
    Die Hard 2 strongly disagrees.
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    Default Re: Tarquin Should Have Made a Sequel

    The thing is, there is literally nothing Tarkin would have done that would make him a main villain. From a meta standpoint that was never the way the Giant intended him to be, and if Tarkin was truly self aware, he would have realized that. Hell, you might even say that peak self awareness would be realizing that your whole character only exists cause you're not the main villain, and if you fullfill that role you sorta would just lose what made your story interesting in the first place, Tarkin is an interesting figure cause he ultimately can't be the main bad guy.

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    Default Re: Tarquin Should Have Made a Sequel

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgana View Post
    The thing is, there is literally nothing Tarkin would have done that would make him a main villain. From a meta standpoint that was never the way the Giant intended him to be, and if Tarkin was truly self aware, he would have realized that. Hell, you might even say that peak self awareness would be realizing that your whole character only exists cause you're not the main villain, and if you fullfill that role you sorta would just lose what made your story interesting in the first place, Tarkin is an interesting figure cause he ultimately can't be the main bad guy.
    I mean, nice points and all, but I don't see how a star wars character fits into all of this.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Tarquin Should Have Made a Sequel

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgana View Post
    The thing is, there is literally nothing Tarkin would have done that would make him a main villain. From a meta standpoint that was never the way the Giant intended him to be, and if Tarkin was truly self aware, he would have realized that. Hell, you might even say that peak self awareness would be realizing that your whole character only exists cause you're not the main villain, and if you fullfill that role you sorta would just lose what made your story interesting in the first place, Tarkin is an interesting figure cause he ultimately can't be the main bad guy.
    If Tarquin really wanted to be the main villain of the story, he would at least be out there with some proper world conquest/destruction plan instead of "let's see how long I hold as an advisor to the evil empire".

    I believe it's more than Tarquin just wanted to at least be the main villain in his son's story. That he worked all those decades becoming an evil general and then there comes his long lost son who took the path of a hero, and all he sees in dad is an optional sidequest boss, while Elan is perfectly happy being the secondary comic relief himself. That must've been the real hit to Tarquin's pride. Not even his son considers him that villanous.

    In particular since Nale himself also rejected Tarquin, claiming he wanted nothing else to do with him. Tarquin put a lot of effort in trying to make his evil son into somebody who would carry his legacy, but instead Nale wanted his own life too... And that just wouldn't do for Tarquin.

    If Elan and Nale had gone all "wow our father truly is the greatest villain we ever met and we'll dedicate our lives to matching him", Tarquin would've probably been fully satisfied with his life.
    Last edited by deuterio12; 2019-05-25 at 03:45 AM.
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    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

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