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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default The artificer returns

    More content to the Artifice. Here’s what’s been added:

    • New subclasses—the Archivist and the Battle Smith
    • A revised spell list, including spells from Xanathar’s Guide to Everything
    • New infusions—Enhanced Wand, Repeating Shot, and Repulsion Shield
    • A revision to multiclassing—round up when determining spell slots


    https://media.wizards.com/2019/dnd/d...icer2-2019.pdf

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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Fun fact I noticed, as written you can't actually be an Archivist or Battle Smith:

    At 3rd level, you choose the type of specialist you
    are: Alchemist or Artillerist, each of which is
    detailed at the end of the class’s description.
    Your choice grants you features at 3rd level and
    again at 6th and 14th level.
    Kind of lazy of them to just copy-paste the abilities from before without double-checking them.
    Last edited by rmnimoc; 2019-05-14 at 02:42 PM.

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    They get Faerie Fire now.

    YOU ARE ALL WELCOME.

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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    So an artificer is the first half caster with cantrips. Does that mean I can take Magic Initiate Artificer and get Arcane Weapon and 2 cantrips?
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    jaappleton's Avatar

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    So an artificer is the first half caster with cantrips. Does that mean I can take Magic Initiate Artificer and get Arcane Weapon and 2 cantrips?
    The feat for it doesn’t exist yet. But it certainly seems to meet all the qualifications.

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    Flumph

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    INT to attack and damge rolls? Please, no...

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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Wow, archivist looks insanely strong. You basically have an int saving throw cantrip that does decent damage (and it's psychic!) and gives the next attack advantage, and you can basically smite on it after you see it work, and you add your int mod to the damage after level 6, and it automatically adds another int saving throw to stun if you use a spell slot after level 14? Yikes, that's potent.
    Last edited by Frozenstep; 2019-05-14 at 02:56 PM.

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    Imp

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Wand Prototype
    Any damage roll you make for a cantrip in the wand gains a bonus equal to your intelligence modifier (minimum +1).
    If you put Eldritch Blast in your prototype, do you get Agonizing Blast without the dip?

    That is, does each beam benefit, since each is a separate attack and damage roll?

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    Grod_The_Giant's Avatar

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Huh. Archivist is... weird. Effective, sure-- Information Overload is like a souped-up True Strike and a better-positioned Toll the Dead all at once, and you can smite with it? For some reason?-- but fluff-wise? The artificial mind... that's in a material object, except when it's manifesting intangibly around you? And I'm not sure what any of it has to do with crafting or magic items?

    Battle Smith looks awesome, though. Medium armor, Int-based attacks, robot puppy? Hell yeah. Finally a decent smart-gish that feels right.

    Repeating Shot is kind of neat-- I think it's the only way to effectively use a heavy crossbow without wasting most of a feat, like how Returning Weapon allows for thrown weapon builds. Is it just me, or is an Artificer dip starting to look like the martial version of the Warlock? Hex Arcane Weapon, +1 attack, damage, and AC via Infusions if you take a second level, a decent bonus action option if you take a third... it's tempting for anyone who's already gotten their Extra Attack.
    Last edited by Grod_The_Giant; 2019-05-14 at 03:01 PM.

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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Daphne View Post
    INT to attack and damge rolls? Please, no...
    Is it really going to hurt the game that much? Wizards (save for maybe bladesingers) certainly aren't going to be clambering for the opportunity to be a melee fighter and EK tend not to prioritize Intelligence over strength as it is.

    Hexblade is a unique issue, in that it keys off Charisma (the main stat to some of the most powerful classes in 5e) and is available as soon as 1st level.

    Quote Originally Posted by claypigeons View Post
    If you put Eldritch Blast in your prototype, do you get Agonizing Blast without the dip?

    That is, does each beam benefit, since each is a separate attack and damage roll?
    Like the last iteration, Eldritch Blast can't be loaded into the wand because the wand only allows Artificer Cantrips. You would be correct in this though, if it were allowed you could even stack its bonus with Agonizing Blast. Something tells me this is one of many reasons that the prototype wand has such a limitation.
    Last edited by ProsecutorGodot; 2019-05-14 at 03:10 PM.

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    ClericGirl

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by rmnimoc View Post
    Kind of lazy of them to just copy-paste the abilities from before without double-checking them.
    The usual UA sloppy work, and why this addition will not be part of our play test of Artificer in the game I began last week.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Hey! There's that arcane half-caster gish I was hoping they'd make! It even looks halfway respectable!

    The archivist returns as a mentat? Seems weird as an artificer instead of a wizard.

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    Imp

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by ProsecutorGodot View Post
    Like the last iteration, Eldritch Blast can't be loaded into the wand because the wand only allows Artificer Cantrips. You would be correct in this though, if it were allowed you could even stack its bonus with Agonizing Blast. Something tells me this is one of many reasons that the prototype wand has such a limitation.
    Oops, missed that on my read through. Thank you

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    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Welp, battle smith looks really good, it's high up in my list of "to play" now.

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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Rukelnikov View Post
    Welp, battle smith looks really good, it's high up in my list of "to play" now.
    Seeing how the battle smith is now makes me regret having my Artificer rolled up into Artillerist. If I'm being honest, the two new subclasses make me see the first two as pretty pathetic in comparison.

    That's maybe a bit harsh but the new subclasses don't give me the feeling that they're struggling for an identity. Artillerist felt a bit weird with the split between turret/wand/weapon as a means of attack and Alchemist just felt a bit lacking in the later level features. Archivist might be the thing that I can finally get my brother (a 4e player obsessed with psionics) to roll up and play.

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    The battle smith is the new swordmage.

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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    What are your guys' opinions as to why the Battle Smith is likeable, but the Beast Master is not?
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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post
    What are your guys' opinions as to why the Battle Smith is likeable, but the Beast Master is not?
    Action Economy. Artificer makes much better use of action economy.

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    But seriously...

    Awhile ago, I tweeted Jeremy Crawford that Artificers should get Faerie Fire. Why?

    “Because throwing a grenade filled with magic glitter and turning the battlefield into a Ke$ha music video is EXACTLY what an Artificer should do.”

    He agreed.

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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post
    What are your guys' opinions as to why the Battle Smith is likeable, but the Beast Master is not?
    Better action economy. You can command it with a bonus action compared to a beast master using their action. Rangers get one weapon attack and a beast attack (which is probably fairly weak) where Artificer gets to attack twice and also use a bonus action to command the beast to attack.

    It feels less like you're sacrificing your characters fun. That's my take on it anyway.

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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    You could still flavour the artillerists turret as a selfshooting wand with legs. I am fine with the artillerist but I think the alchemist looks comparably weak. Poison is a crappy damage type and there are not enough acid damage spells to carry it.

    Information overload is probably one of the best cantrips/cantrip-likes in the game and you can smite and stun with it. This is insane!

    Battlesmith looks like a good gish and a better beast master ranger. That will stay alive longer than the beastmasters beast and it improves more as you level.

    Repeating shot lets you use a sling/handcrossbow and a shield at the same time! Noice! I really like the infusions!
    Last edited by Fnissalot; 2019-05-14 at 04:04 PM.

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    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post
    What are your guys' opinions as to why the Battle Smith is likeable, but the Beast Master is not?
    Int to att and dam coupled with magic weapon and armor at lvl 2 and an improved hex

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post
    What are your guys' opinions as to why the Battle Smith is likeable, but the Beast Master is not?
    The robopup acts on a bonus action and it gets magic attacks innately. It's also easier to replace, has more HP, can do some weird miniature heal-smite, self-repair, is a perfect watchdog, immune to poison, an excellent defensive reaction, cooler flavor, etc. etc. Oh, and that's not the only thing you get for the subclass. It would be reasonably useful (though boring and uninspired) if Int to attack/damage and martial weapons is all it got.

    The artificer is also an innately more fun chassis than the ranger, with a bevy of cantrips, ritual casting, more interesting utility spells, infusions, built-in crafting, and can play in every aspect of the game without invalidating specific ones.
    Last edited by Waterdeep Merch; 2019-05-14 at 04:15 PM.

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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Why do they bother releasing this garbage in the first place?

    They know that there is no chance a class sees print that is a half caster and gets cantrips.

    It is just the crappy MM version that has 2 op subclasses racked on by someone who doesn’t understand balance.

    Also replicating returning would be great other than returning is not a property possible in the game because it will not be added to any charts for the dmg.

    This level of lazy pointlessness is unacceptable.

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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterwhisper View Post
    Why do they bother releasing this garbage in the first place?
    Because people have asked for this, for years.

    They know that there is no chance a class sees print that is a half caster and gets cantrips.
    We live in a post Hexblade world, anything goes at this point. This specific version is definitely not going to see print but I wouldn't be surprised if a more refined version eventually did. Things don't end up in Unearthed Arcana under the assumption that they will never see print, but that they might not. They wouldn't be testing things that they didn't think had a bit of promise in them.

    I'd argue that despite everything this new iteration of the Artificer is fairly well received. It helps that Keith Baker is somewhat involved in the design process for this class.

    It is just the crappy MM version that has 2 op subclasses racked on by someone who doesn’t understand balance.
    This is definitely a bit of a sticking point but it's better to start iterating when something is too strong and tone it down than start it too weak and struggle to tune it up.

    Also replicating returning would be great other than returning is not a property possible in the game because it will not be added to any charts for the dmg.
    I suppose Dwarven Thrower's returning property and the fact that combining magical item effects is already in the DMG is easy to miss.

    This level of lazy pointlessness is unacceptable.
    Yes, they should probably have done a double check on features that referenced the available subclasses, but I think it's unfair to say that it's a total hack job. There are a few changes that I didn't think they would bother addressing, such as expanding the base class list with spells outside of Xanathar's and the fact that they fixed the spell slot progression issue when multiclassing.

    It certainly doesn't help when there's a vocal majority of people demanding more content and then that vocal group overlapping with those displeased with the content they received.

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterwhisper View Post
    Why do they bother releasing this garbage in the first place?

    They know that there is no chance a class sees print that is a half caster and gets cantrips.

    It is just the crappy MM version that has 2 op subclasses racked on by someone who doesn’t understand balance.

    Also replicating returning would be great other than returning is not a property possible in the game because it will not be added to any charts for the dmg.

    This level of lazy pointlessness is unacceptable.
    Because we never stop asking for more

    No less likely than GFB/BB and Hexblade if you ask me

    Fair point, but remember the premise of UA was supposed to be for playtesting and critique prior to a official release

    Same problem as Artificers not being able to use a bunch of DMG magic items that specify certain caster classes to attune

    I disagree, I think it's worth something.
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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Alchemist might make a decent 5e Witcher.

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterwhisper View Post
    Why do they bother releasing this garbage in the first place?

    They know that there is no chance a class sees print that is a half caster and gets cantrips.

    It is just the crappy MM version that has 2 op subclasses racked on by someone who doesn’t understand balance.

    Also replicating returning would be great other than returning is not a property possible in the game because it will not be added to any charts for the dmg.

    This level of lazy pointlessness is unacceptable.
    At what point did you forget that this is test material and not allowed in official play?

    At what point did you forget that this is free content?

    At what point did you forget that Wizards does not work for you?

    At what point did you forget that Wizards are the ones who set the standards with half-casters and cantrips and are perfectly capable of thinking outside their own box?

    If you are unsatisfied with their unofficial, free, optional material, feel free to make your own instead of insulting content creators who are doing more for this hobby than you are.

    Someone who apparently has never had to deal with something so basic as adding homebrew magic items into their game is not someone whose complaints carry any weight with me, especially when delivered with such thoughtless vitriol like some Karen demanding to speak to the manager for some imagined slight.
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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Glad to see the Multiclassing thing addressed, at least.

    Some quick impressions (haven't gotten to go over the new subclasses yet):
    - Soul of Artifice seems very topheavy; moreso than other capstones.
    - It has 6 "-" levels and a few levels with what is essentially just ribbons on top of that. These levels coincide with either getting a new spell level or new infusion known. For comparison, other half-casters have 3 "-" levels.
    - Alchemist spell list seems a little underwhelming. Melf's Acid Arrow is about as useful as Witch Bolt, for example.

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    PirateGuy

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Hoo boy.

    I was never particularly attached to Artificer as a concept, but I really liked where this class was going with the last release. But these two new sub-classes are a bit much.

    Archivist has a ranged cantrip like ability that keys off an uncommon and generally weak save, deals a fantastic damage type, has a powerful rider effect, AND lets you smite with it. Oh, and at higher levels you get Int to that damage, and then later on that smite can stun. Now, to be fair, it will likely require a bonus action to get it in position, and then an action to actually use the attack, and it is not an actual cantrip and so won't increase damage if you multiclass. But damn, that is incredibly good. Also you get some great spells and a ton of utility abilities.

    That all being said, the Battle Smith makes all that look pathetic. Better version of the entire Beast Master Ranger Subclass: Check. Extra attack: Check. Using your main stat for attack and damage instead of the normal stat: Check. This is just stupid. Either make the subclass focused on the beast, or make it focused on being in melee. The fact that it literally is a better beastmaster subclass on a better main class chassis is already bad enough, but adding in personal melee capability on top is just wrong. Literally the only saving grace there is that its a level 3 subclass so its not as prone to multiclass shenanigans as Hexblade.

    I want to like this class, but these two new subclasses just feel less inspired and overpowered.

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