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  1. - Top - End - #271
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Anderlith View Post
    I understand that, but this Artificer works surprisingly well. A vocal minority is raising a stink because they don’t want Artificers to have homunculi, mostly because they don’t seem to want “pets” in general, ignorant of the fact it was a class feature, & is being implemented in a wonderful, streamlined way
    Given that the current artificer archtypes are generally well received on here with a few exceptions and will liked in the eberron community despite wanting a few tweaks to things that are in the class/ archtypes themselves that aren't quite where they should be... that makes you the "vocal minority".

    As the vocal minority you are skewing what people are telling you to the point of absurdity. People are telling you that the current archtypes are pretty nice & that what the homonculous used to do is represented in various other abilities in the class but that adding the homonculous would be difficult without hurting the class itself. Rather than suggesting ways that you think such a thing could be added without hurting the class or anything else like why it is so intrinsic to the feel of an artificer you choose to distort what others are saying.

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Good breakdown Misterwhisper. I dont agree on every point but I imagine my feedback to WotC will be quite similar to yours.
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  3. - Top - End - #273
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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Tetrasodium View Post
    Given that the current artificer archtypes are generally well received on here with a few exceptions and will liked in the eberron community despite wanting a few tweaks to things that are in the class/ archtypes themselves that aren't quite where they should be... that makes you the "vocal minority".

    As the vocal minority you are skewing what people are telling you to the point of absurdity. People are telling you that the current archtypes are pretty nice & that what the homonculous used to do is represented in various other abilities in the class but that adding the homonculous would be difficult without hurting the class itself. Rather than suggesting ways that you think such a thing could be added without hurting the class or anything else like why it is so intrinsic to the feel of an artificer you choose to distort what others are saying.
    Not at all. I’ve made points before in the playground about how every Artificer should have a Homunculus that embodied the ideals of their subclass in a supportive role, mostly because I feel this is the right way to handle it.
    Nobody liked the idea of the generic “clockwork animal” of the last Artificer iteration.
    When we only had two subclasses I even suggested that they add a “Battlesmith” & that they could give them the old Iron Defender, instead of more “sci-fi” concepts like clockwork magic powerarmor. Battlesmith is a great subclass, the Artillerist needs the most work, & Archivist needs it’s language & a few things tweeked.

    I find it galling that people would want to in my mind sabotage the Artificer because things like the Ranger being poorly done. If you google, “Eberron Artificer” one of the very first images is that of a dwarf (gnome?) with an Iron Defender. It is iconic. It should be included. If someone thinks that it would be better served helping the Artillerist then argue that the Homunculus should be chosen from a list not to just do away with it. Other people see the Battlesmith as their first “real” way to have an Int gish so they want to take out all the bits that don’t fit into their idea of a spellsword frontline, never minding that that is not how Artificers are presented. It’s like trying to take songs away from a valor bard & tell them to make them have better buffs & damage.

  4. - Top - End - #274
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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Mjolnirbear View Post
    Thank you for a critique. You make many points, so I'm going to only address certain ones.


    Actually the infusion wasn't there the first time around. I think its that the crossbow is iconic in a way to the artificer.


    Except for thieves tools, tools are ribbons. You go into this point many times, but the most salient point you make here is that the party artificer is likely hogging the spotlight here. This isn't anything new, though; just like a thief can be better at persuading than a paladin, sorcerer, warlock or bard. Many tables take this into account and avoid overlapping abilities anyways; doing this for tools is no different and matters significantly less than it does for skills.

    Tools are a role-playing hook only. It's one of the reasons I personally think Performance and Animal Handling, two of the least-used skills, should have been tools instead.



    According to all the minmax guides, con proficiency is all but required. I'm not sure I agree but many do indeed rate it strong. This is not unprecedented though, as sorcerers get it too.


    And yet was there not just a huge thread about the RAW regarding material components and counterspells? Including foci?

    Power gamers will powergame. We cannot stop it, and the RAW in place already gives a DM the excuse to say no. The point of the ability is for fluff, to give permission to play around with it.

    you're not wrong, but so what? No other caster save sorcerer gets metamagic. No other martial save fighter gets four attacks. The game is full of "...and here's a little something fun only this class gets."

    as someone already mentioned, 1/3 casters already offer that insult.



    Very strong, yes. But getting rid of a minor weapon property is hardly the most offensive thing this game has. And given the glut of competing bonus action the artificer has, why bother taking CBE?

    Not sure your issue with shields. Shields come with medium armor. Every time. It seems odd you complain about halfcasters getting cantrips but then object to medium armor-wearers getting shields.



    Not sure what your issue is here. That no one else can have repeating or returning weapons? Because that's bunk. If the DM wants them, the DM will include them. Since magic items are never ever at the purview of the player except by DM choice, this changes nothing.

    And infusions aren't permanent magic items. They don't belong on the DMG magic item tables.

    Lastly, why you complain these aren't normal magic item properties and the boots or pouch aren't is, well, weird. I hesitate to put it this way but it's almost like...jealousy?








    I find nothing broken about this. A wizard can cast infinite magic missiles without using a spell slot, a druid can cast spells while shifted into a spider, a monk can become resistant to all damage, a fighter has two actions surges and three save rerolls...



    Monk gets proficiency on all saves at 14. Including death saves. At this level, that's +5 to each save they are not already proficient in.


    personally I believe this is a problem with the ranger and the warlock, not the artificer.





    Last time I'll mention tools... Because tools are ribbons. Seriously! Who cares if you win at blacksmithing!? Or knitting? The only tools of significance are thieves' tools, and rogue and bard can both get expertise in this, get help in their check, and benefit from guidance. This is nothing. Nothing at all. Artificer are masters of tools. It's their thing. Their defining characteristic, and it's a frigging ribbon. Sheesh.





    Don't agree with chain warlock, but beast master rangers definitely get the shaft here. Again, though, this is a problem with the ranger and their refusal to reprint it, not a problem with the artificer.

    Wait, so you can only one class that's extra good at healing? And it's not like life clerics don't have their own tricks...

    This is a common theme in your posts. Like a classes unique abilities are sacred and inviolable. But a warlock can smite, a paladin gets Hex, a knowledge cleric gets expertise, a bugbear has sneak attack, a goblin has cunning action, a warlock can get shillelagh, a bard can steal find steed and swift quiver...


    Like a half-elf bard/rogue? Or taking a dip into Knowledge cleric? Getting lots of skills is not difficult and there are many paths to that.

    in many ways this is, in my opinion, your most significant comment.

    I feel a great deal of abuse can be avoided by simply ruling that maintaining concentration on seeing through its senses requires your action each turn. That would put it on par with most familiars and would also require you to be able to have line of sight to any spell target since you can't cast and use the familiars senses at the same time.

    Even with that caveat, which is a relatively simple fix, there are definite improvements to be made here.

    I really dislike your use of personal attacks when you disagree with something.

    even if it hits print, a DM is not obliged to allow it at his table. And if you don't like it, don't play it. I personally don't like guns in my fantasy, but nothing here requires me to view this as sci-fi. The fact that you do does not mean they are. Even if they were explicitly described using sci-fi terms like robotic, lasers, technological or whatever, like the previous iteration of gunsmith, you can simply fluff it. Ultimately, there is no such thing as badwrongfun in D&D.
    It is not a personal attack to say mike mearls rips off video games for class abilities. It is a fact, he has even said so himself.

  5. - Top - End - #275
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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by jaappleton View Post
    I'm in favor of the Iron Guardian moving to the Artillerist as a turret option.

    Also LOVE the idea of Battle Smith getting some sort of armor. I AM IRON GNOME!
    This was my homebrew attempt at an armorer-artificer from a while ago.

    It hits some of the same notes as the Battlesmith they just put out; there's no pet, but his armor has a buffer of hitpoints that functions a bit like the Abjurer's ward and gives him a pseudo d10 HP.

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterwhisper View Post
    It is not a personal attack to say mike mearls rips off video games for class abilities. It is a fact, he has even said so himself.
    He was on a big Destiny binge when he made the first Celestial Warlock.

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by jaappleton View Post
    I'm in favor of the Iron Guardian moving to the Artillerist as a turret option.

    Also LOVE the idea of Battle Smith getting some sort of armor. I AM IRON GNOME!
    Heh

    I was thinking about that too

    Er... not the gnome part.

    But moving the pet to another subclass and replacing it with something a bit less powerful wouldn’t be a bad idea.

    Possibly a choice of some modest weapon or armor augmentation options that open up further with level.

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by jaappleton View Post
    Can everyone here do me one small favor?

    Please, shout any and all Artificer build ideas at me.

    I'm trying to think of a few and my brain is just fried from work. So... If you could help a guy out, I'd appreciate it.
    For reasons of my own, I've been toying around with an idea to mix Artificer with my, currently at 5th level, Oath of the Ancients paladin, who is a descendant of an archmage, but also a smith by dayjob whenever he's not adventuring. That's why I felt that Battle Smith could fit in.

    I want to get access to at least 4th level paladin spells (Find Greater Steed and Dire Wolf mount), so I might take 7 Artificer levels from there on. The Iron Defender would then be created to resemble a Wolf (obviously; wolf is the totem animal of his Clan).

    With only int 13, I understand the Iron Defender isn't going to be very sturdy, but meh. It's not the point for me to take Artificer, just a bonus (still, 38 hit points isn't awful; the Dire Wolf mount has same-ish hit points).
    Last edited by Arkhios; 2019-05-18 at 07:18 AM.

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    I do still miss the gunsmith and some of the old alchemist perks though, reckon that should be incorporated back in. Infusions are a neat way to put them in but i’m worried that going forward every class will have an invocation equivalent.
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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    I do still miss the gunsmith and some of the old alchemist perks though, reckon that should be incorporated back in. Infusions are a neat way to put them in but i’m worried that going forward every class will have an invocation equivalent.
    I’m hoping the more utility uses of the alchemy satchel can be turned into infusions.

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Anderlith View Post
    I’m hoping the more utility uses of the alchemy satchel can be turned into infusions.
    That would certainly be nice. There were a lot of good, classic items in that satchel.

    Also because Honey Lemon Artificer was a lot of fun.

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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    I just noticed that shield of faith was removed from the spell list. Any other spells that got cut?

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Right! I'm sick of waiting for WOTC!
    I'm actually just a bit bored but anyway

    The Artificer
    Level Prof Special Abilities Infusions Cantrips 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th
    1 2 Magical Tinkering, Tool Expertise - - - - - - -
    2 2 Infusions, Spellcasting 2 2 2 - - - -
    3 2 Specialization, Tool Expertise 2 2 3 - - - -
    4 2 ASI 2 2 3 - - - -
    5 3 Extra Attack 2 2 4 2 - - -
    6 3 Specialization Feature 3 2 4 2 - - -
    7 3 Extra Attunement (1) 3 2 4 3 - - -
    8 3 ASI 3 2 4 3 - - -
    9 4 - 3 2 4 3 2 - -
    10 4 Magic Item Mastery 3 3 4 3 2 - -
    11 4 Extra Attunement (2) 4 3 4 3 3 - -
    12 4 ASI 4 3 4 3 3 - -
    13 5 - 4 3 4 3 3 1 -
    14 5 Specialization Feature 4 4 4 3 3 1 -
    15 5 Extra Attunement (3) 4 4 4 3 3 2 -
    16 5 ASI 5 4 4 3 3 2 -
    17 6 - 5 4 4 3 3 3 1
    18 6 Spell-Storing Item 5 4 4 3 3 3 1
    19 6 ASI 5 4 4 3 3 3 2
    20 6 Soul of Artifice 5 4 4 3 3 3 2

    Proficiencies
    Armor: Light armor, medium armor, shields
    Weapons: Simple weapons, hand crossbows, heavy crossbows
    Tools: Any two of your choice
    Saving Throws: Constitution, Intelligence
    Skills: Choose two from Arcana, History, Investigation, Medicine, Nature, Perception, Sleight of Hand

    Magical Tinkering
    As an action you can touch a tiny nonmagical object with a tool you are proficient in to give it one of the following magical properties of your choice:
    • The object sheds bright light in a 5-foot radius and dim light for an additional 5 feet.
    • Whenever tapped by a creature, the object emits a recorded message that can be heard up to 10 feet away. You utter the message when you bestow this property on the object, and the recording can be no more than 6 seconds long.
    • The object continuously emits your choice of an odor or a nonverbal sound (wind, waves, chirping, or the like). The chosen phenomenon is perceivable up to 10 feet away.
    • A static visual effect appears on one of the object’s surfaces. This effect can be a picture, up to 25 words of text, lines and shapes, or a mixture of these elements, as you like.

    The chosen property lasts indefinitely or until you end it as an action by touching the object. You can give the magic of this feature to a number of objects up to your Intelligence bonus (minimum one). If you exceed this number the oldest property immediately ends, and then the new property applies.

    Tool Expertise
    Choose two of your tool proficiencies. Your proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check you make that uses either of the chosen proficiencies.
    At 3rd level, you can choose two more of your tool proficiencies to gain this benefit.

    Spellcasting
    - Int based
    - Prepare Int Mod + half level from full list
    - Ritual Casting
    - Tools you are proficient in can be used as Foci

    Spoiler: Spell List
    Show

    Haven't made any changes, did anyone have qualms with the list?


    Infusions
    Choose two Artificer Infusions to learn from the list below. You learn additional Infusions as shown on the Artificer table. Whenever you gain a level in this class you can replace one Infusion you have learned with a new one.
    When you finish a long rest you can touch a nonmagical object and imbue it with one of your Infusions, turning it into a magic item. An Infusion only works on certain kinds of objects as specified in the Infusion's description. All infused items require attunement, and you can choose to attune to the item when you infuse it. Infusions remain in an item indefinitely, but when you die the infusion fades after a number of days equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum one). An infusion also disappears if you swap it out for another Infusion. If you attempt to use an Infusion on more than one object the previous one loses it's Infusion when you place it within the new object.

    Spoiler: Infusions
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    Boots of the Winding Path (level 4+): While wearing these boots you can teleport once as part of your movement on your turn to a location you can see at a rate of 2 feet of movement for every 1 foot travelled.
    Helping Hand: This Belt functions as a third hand for its wearer
    Majestic Crown: This headband increases the user's Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma by 1, to a maximum of 18
    Many-Handed Pouch: These pouches all share one interdimensional space of the same capacity as one pouch. A pouch that
    Mighty Girdle: This belt increases the wearer's Strength, Dexterity and Constitution by 1, to a maximum of 18
    Radiant Weapon: As a bonus action the wielder can make this melee weapon shine as bright as a torch (or stop). Additionally when the wielder hits with this melee weapon they can force the target to make a dexterity save (your spell DC) or be blinded until the end of the wielder's next turn. Once used this cannot be done again until the end of a short or long rest
    Repeating Shot: This ranged weapon requires no ammunition and ignores the loading property, magically producing one piece each time you load it which disappears after it hits or misses its target.
    Repulsion Shield (level 8+): While holding this shield the wielder can use their reaction after being hit by a melee attack to push the attacker up to 15 feet away. Once used this reaction cannot be used again until the wielder finishes a short or long rest
    Returning Weapon: This thrown weapon immediately returns to the wielder's hand after it is used to make a ranged attack
    Suregrip Soles: The wearer of these boots gains advantage on ability checks and saving throws against losing their footing, being forcibly moved or knocked prone.


    Specialization
    Choose the type of specialist you are: Alchemist, Archivist, Artillerist, Battlesmith or Mechanist. Your choice grants you features at 3rd level and again at 6th and 14th level.

    Extra Attack
    You can attack twice, rather than once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.

    Extra Attunement
    You can attune to up to four magic items at once.
    At 11th level this ability improves, allowing you to attune to to up five magic items at once and again at 15th to six magic items at once.

    Magic Item Mastery
    You ignore all class, race, alignment and level requirements on the use of magic items

    Spell-Storing Item
    When you finish a long rest you can touch one weapon or spell focus and choose one 1st or 2nd level spell from the Artificer list to store in it. A creature holding the object can produce the spell's effect as an action, using your spellcasting ability modifier and their concentration as required. The spell stays within the object until it has been used a number of times equal to twice your Intelligence modifier (minimum twice) or until you use this feature again.

    Soul of Artifice
    You gain a +1 bonus to all saving throws per magic item you are currently attuned to.

    That's boring, let's brainstorm something better
    - +1 to attack rolls, damage rolls and saving throws per two magic items you are attuned to Still boring numbers!
    - You can activate a magic item as a bonus action
    - When you use your action to activate a magic item you can choose to activate another magic item as well.
    - When you activate a magic item that uses charges you expend one fewer charges than normal
    - When you expend the last charge on an item there is no chance of it being destroyed
    - During a short rest you can recharge a magic item that uses charges with a number of charges up to your Intelligence modifier (minimum one). Once you do so you cannot do so again until you finish a long rest

    Spoiler: Alchemist
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    Tools of the Trade: Alchemist Supplies and Herbalism Kit proficiency, Potions crafted in quarter time
    Bonus Spells: Anybody have issues with the list?

    Level 3: Alchemist's Homunculous or Satchel (choose one)
    Homunculoud functions like the Find Familiar spell which you can use as a Ritual and grants you the homunculous form/statblock.
    AC 12 + your Prof bonus, 4 HP per Artificer level, 20 foot speed + flight, acid/poison immunity
    Has access to the Acid Splash cantrip using your spell DC and salves 3/day (reset on your long rest)

    Satchel works like the one in the v1 Artificer, which we can tinker with the numbers of (and bring in some more Formula options) to be balanced.

    Level 6: Alchemical Mastery
    Resistance to Poison and Acid damage, Int bonus to healing, poison and acid damage from spells.
    Satchel / Homunculous can cast Lesser Restoration once per short rest (your short rest)

    Level 14: Chemical Savant
    Immunity to Poison damage and condition, Acid damage and your Poison/Acid spells ignore damage resistance. Immunity is treated as resistance.
    Satchel / Homunculous can cast Greater Restoration once per long rest (your long rest)


    Spoiler: Archivist
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    Tools of the Trade: Calligraphers Supplies and Forgery Kit proficiency, Scrolls crafted in quarter time
    Bonus Spells: Anybody have issues with the list?

    Level 3: Artificial Mind
    Functions like Find Familiar, which you gain as a ritual spell. While active your familiar grants you two skill proficiencies of your choice (changeable at the end of a long rest) and when you use your action to sense through it you can choose to cast a spell through it as well a number of times equal to your Int modifier (minimum once) per long rest.

    Level 6: Mind Network
    While your Artificial mind is active you gain resistance to Psychic damage and can communicate telepathically with anyone bearing an item you have infused on the same plane of existence.

    Level 14: Information Transfer
    While your Artificial mind is active you can teleport to the unoccupied space nearest to the spectral mind or any of your infused items as long as they are on the same plane of existence. Once you use this ability you cannot do so again until you finish a short or long rest.


    Spoiler: Battlesmith
    Show

    Tools of the Trade: Leatherworkers Supplies and Woodcarver's Tools proficiency, Weapons and Shields crafted in quarter time
    Bonus Spells: Anybody have issues with the list?

    Level 3: Battle Ready
    Proficiency with martial weapons, INT to attack and damage with weapons.

    Level 3: Siegestaff
    As a bonus action you can plant a siegestaff in an unoccupied space within your reach. When planted and on subsequent turns you can use a bonus action to activate the siegestaff and cause it to do one of the following:
    - Damage aura (appropriate amount of scaling force damage with a save)
    - Create Ward (wall off a 15 foot area with appropriately scaling barrier until end of your next turn)
    - Impair Vision (throw out an amount of appropriately scaling obscurement until end of your next turn)
    A siegestaff has X AC and Y HP, and lasts for up to one minute before being rendered inert. Once you use this ability you cannot do so again until you finish a short or long rest.

    Level 6: Arcane Jolt
    Once per turn when you hit an enemy with an attack within 30 feet of your siegestaff you can either deal an additional 2d4 force damage or heal an ally you can see within 30 feet 2d4 HP.

    Level 14: Siegestaff Recovery
    You can place a second siegestaff between rests, though you can only have one active at a time.
    If your siegestaff is destroyed before its minute has passed you can use your reaction to regain one expended spell slot of 1st or 2nd level.


    Spoiler: Mechanist
    Show

    Tools of the Trade: Tinkering Supplies and Smiths Tools proficiency, Armor crafted in quarter time
    Bonus Spells: Anybody have issues with the list?

    Level 3: Iron Defender
    Shares your initiative, has it's own movement and reaction but takes the dodge action unless you use your bonus action to command it.
    Mending restores 1d6 hit points (2d6 at level 5, 3d6 at level 11 and 4d6 at level 17) up to half it's maximum HP. It doesn't have the 3/day repair ability but it does have Hit Dice for short rests.
    No getting it back with a spell slot, you use your long rest to rebuild a fallen defender.
    AC, attack/damage, skills and saves all scale with your prof bonus, HP scales by Artificer level

    Level 6: Improved Defender
    Defender's attacks are considered magical and can use its Defensive Pounce for itself

    Level 14:



    Well that was a good day spent at work, I nearly got through it all!
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  14. - Top - End - #284
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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    SNIP
    Minor complain (or at least, minor in the sense that it's only a small part of the large scope you've presented) but what do they do at level 1? This is kind of a big deal. What stats do you invest in during character creation to ensure that, if a combat happens at level 1, that you are able to defend yourself?

    Early levels are deadly, level 1 the most of all (assuming you spend more than a single encounter there) and the idea that an intelligence based half caster class that is much more caster than martial would not be incentivized to have their intelligence stat do anything for the first level of their career is a bit off.

    For Rangers and Paladin's casting is often a secondary thing and not many of their spells actually require them to have a very high casting stat. They're not going to be casting often either, with their limited spell slots and for paladins, alternate uses for them. For Artificers, its core to not just their class features but also their spells. They have cantrips, so they'll be casting often.

    There's also the pretty big deal that they trade down a hit die size to compensate for their slightly better spellcasting. This spellcasting progression change means that at level 1 they are a d8 hit die martial, without all the benefits of being a monk or rogue. You start your adventure with below average damage, survivability and no incentive to have a decent score in your casting stat.

    I don't see the problem with level 1 casting. I do see a problem without it.

    Other than that change, I much prefer the Battle Smith subclass that you've presented over the Artillerist. Only complaint on this is that the Siegestaff seems incredibly limited. It only lasts 1 minute and is once per rest? It's not very exciting to have your defining class feature be that limited.

    Do you also mean for there to not be a limit on active infusions? I can see that getting a bit out of hand.

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    So cantrips at level 1, save spell slots for level 2?

    I just wanted to nuke the walking turret, it just seemed really awkward conceptually. Siegestaff takes the place of a pet and is a lot more set-and-forget in style. Numbers can be tweaked.

    You can make one of each infusion. I pulled out the boring +x and DMG copying items
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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    So cantrips at level 1, save spell slots for level 2?

    I just wanted to nuke the walking turret, it just seemed really awkward conceptually. Siegestaff takes the place of a pet and is a lot more set-and-forget in style. Numbers can be tweaked.

    You can make one of each infusion. I pulled out the boring +x and DMG copying items
    I don't think there's any reason to not allow them to cast spells start at level 1, cantrips and slots. They at the very least need cantrips so that they aren't focusing on crossbows for their first few levels. Splitting spellcasting rules is a no go.

    I prefer the Siegestaff to the turret but I believe that the spell slot to ability charges mechanic is worth preserving. The Siegestaff is roughly on par with a first level spell (probably a bit stronger in utility, weaker offensively) but is already much weaker than the turret with the rate it's allowed to be used.

    I still think it's problematic to allow each infusion to be applied at the same time, even if it's limited to one each. With only a few long rests you're able to increase each of your ability scores by one and gain a magical weapon. The new infusions you've added are either too powerful (Helping Hand, Crown, Girdle) or too weak (Suregrip Soles). I see the most problems with Helping Hand. It seems pretty tame, right up until you've outfitted a Barbarian/Paladin with a Shield and a Greataxe.

  17. - Top - End - #287
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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    I don't have a problem with it either really, apart from the weird multiclassing rules. The less that needs to be rewritten the better.

    Totally fair, that's easy done.

    Wait what? Number of infusions is the same as the UA as far as I know just less avaiable to pick from. Do you really consider +1 to three different stats (max 18) better than 'set Str to 19' ?
    Also none of my infusions make a weapon magical. Some are notably less widely useful though, I originally had a few more purely utility ones (eg Timelock coating: one object of medium size or smaller becomes immune to rust and other forms of decay due to the passage of time).

    I mean, I don't intend for the above to be the definitive version or anything, just a quick showcase. WotC can copy it whole cloth for all I care, just fix up the glaring flaws for pete sake.
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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    I don't have a problem with it either really, apart from the weird multiclassing rules. The less that needs to be rewritten the better.

    Totally fair, that's easy done.

    Wait what? Number of infusions is the same as the UA as far as I know just less avaiable to pick from. Do you really consider +1 to three different stats (max 18) better than 'set Str to 19' ?
    Also none of my infusions make a weapon magical. Some are notably less widely useful though, I originally had a few more purely utility ones (eg Timelock coating: one object of medium size or smaller becomes immune to rust and other forms of decay due to the passage of time).

    I mean, I don't intend for the above to be the definitive version or anything, just a quick showcase. WotC can copy it whole cloth for all I care, just fix up the glaring flaws for pete sake.
    The difference between "get +1/+1/+1" and "set strength score to 19" is that Gauntlets of Ogre power are locked behind being level 12 and prevent you from ever reaching 20 Str with them attuned. This girdle gives you a +1 when you have no reasonable expectation to reach 20 Str (or dex/con) and doesn't prevent you from doing so with your first ASI. That is, unless you intend for it to lower the cap for your ability scores.

    You'd have to add a clause saying infused weapons do not count as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistances to not have the weapons count as magical, seeing as they're explicitly called magic items. They don't need a bonus to their hit or damage to be considered a magical weapon, all they need is the magic. Even if you added such a clause, a player choosing Repeating Shot for a ranged weapon would probably take issue with the fact that their magical bow/gun with magically spawned ammunition isn't considered a magic weapon.
    Magic Items: Weapons
    Whether crafted for some fell purpose or forged to serve the highest ideals of chivalry, magic weapons are coveted by many adventurers.

    Some magic weapons specify the type of weapon they are in their descriptions, such as a longsword or longbow. If a magic weapon doesn’t specify its weapon type, you may choose the type or determine it randomly.

    If a magic weapon has the ammunition property, ammunition fired from it is considered magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks and damage
    Last edited by ProsecutorGodot; 2019-05-20 at 02:48 AM.

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Oooohhh the level cap, yeah the stat items wouldnt be available from level 2, my bad.

    I would have thought judging from the sheer number of times that i’ve seen “counts as magic for the purposes of...” would set the default to ‘doesnt count’ but worth being specific yes.
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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Oooohhh the level cap, yeah the stat items wouldnt be available from level 2, my bad.

    I would have thought judging from the sheer number of times that i’ve seen “counts as magic for the purposes of...” would set the default to ‘doesnt count’ but worth being specific yes.
    I don't recall an example of magic items using that wording, all I'm aware of is Monk Fists and other such class features that don't explicitly create magic items like Pact of the Blade for warlock. If you know of an example of a magic item that uses this wording then I could be mistaken.

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Indeed Monk and Bladelock are the PHB examples, which is the template wording I see pop up a lot in homebrew. I might have made an assumption of that being the norm ie if a weapon doesn't say it bypasses damage resistance without a + then it doesn't.
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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    The issue with the turret is that it is called turret. Call it an automaton wand, animated wand, wandbot-3000, self-casting wand with legs, or wandslinging construct. The name turret gives the wrong associations. The concept is cool. What is the difference between a gun and a wand? You know enough about one to understand how it works. Both would look like magic otherwise.

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    You do realize that a siegestaff is the size of a trebuchet right? It’s supposed to be a staff of steroids that is impractical to carry around

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Anderlith View Post
    You do realize that a siegestaff is the size of a trebuchet right? It’s supposed to be a staff of steroids that is impractical to carry around
    Races with Powerful Build: "Our time has come!"

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    I dont see anything wrong with walking turret. In a world with artificers I imagine that the first solution to making turrets better might be to give it legs or wheels. Its like a tank with treads. course i've never had an issue with that kind of thing in fantasy, especially high fantasy. It just makes sense that it would exist in the same world where there is magical engineering.

    The Iron Defender is like an iron golem prototype, makes sense on a battle smith too. Thats that next level thinking they pay artificers for. Any smith can just make some cool armor, but whats that supposed to do? Protect you right? only issue is that it incentives you to get closer to danger. If you want protection just make something that is smart enough to protect you that you don't have to put on your chest. Perfect solution for the crafty but relatively squishy guy.

    Artificer looking really fun so far. Can't wait to test it.

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Mortis_Elrod View Post
    I dont see anything wrong with walking turret. In a world with artificers I imagine that the first solution to making turrets better might be to give it legs or wheels. Its like a tank with treads. course i've never had an issue with that kind of thing in fantasy, especially high fantasy. It just makes sense that it would exist in the same world where there is magical engineering.

    The Iron Defender is like an iron golem prototype, makes sense on a battle smith too. Thats that next level thinking they pay artificers for. Any smith can just make some cool armor, but whats that supposed to do? Protect you right? only issue is that it incentives you to get closer to danger. If you want protection just make something that is smart enough to protect you that you don't have to put on your chest. Perfect solution for the crafty but relatively squishy guy.

    Artificer looking really fun so far. Can't wait to test it.
    I completely agree. In fact I think the Artillerist should get an Arbalest style construct that could fly & reposition. Granted the Artillerist as it stands is a sort of defensive positioned blaster, digging in & shelling away. Give me a day or so & I’ll be posting a rework on the Artillerist, one a restructure of the existing one & the other a homebrew of my own that departs from the established feel.

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Tried out the artificer this weekend as a PC, it lasted all of one combat before it was banned until revision.

    We were level 6 and I killed an entire castle just by using project mind and information overload.

    Some things I noticed:

    The projected mind can not move more than 300 feet away from the OBJECT it is coming from, not you.

    I simply sat in a house near the castle and manifested the mind from a rock I wrote some glyphs on.

    I had the mind sit there as I opened the window and left the room taking the rock with me.

    I walked past the rest of the group and walked outside and chucked the rock over the castle wall and onto the roof with my sling.

    I went back to breakfast where the group discussed how to deal with the castle, as I just sat there and commanded the mind to float out my window and proceed to kill every guard in the castle over the next 15 mins as there was nothing they could do about it.

    After breakfast I just told the rest of the group that I dealt with the castle already while eating breakfast.

    I did have to use mage hand twice through the projected mind in order to open a few doors but that was simple.

    Yeah, the ban hammer took a full swing.

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Anderlith View Post
    You do realize that a siegestaff is the size of a trebuchet right? It’s supposed to be a staff of steroids that is impractical to carry around
    More like a tree or telephone pole I think. Definitely too big to carry around a full blown military grade crew operated siege staff or antiaircraft gun, but the tripod mounted 50cal in a pickup equivalent or a shoulder mounted rog is totally doable. the turret is that sort of step down & totally reasonable. The fact that they don't call it a siege staff leaves room for siege staffs to asctually get introduced with tangible stats (maybe this fall even!)

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterwhisper View Post
    Tried out the artificer this weekend as a PC, it lasted all of one combat before it was banned until revision.

    We were level 6 and I killed an entire castle just by using project mind and information overload.

    Some things I noticed:

    The projected mind can not move more than 300 feet away from the OBJECT it is coming from, not you.

    I simply sat in a house near the castle and manifested the mind from a rock I wrote some glyphs on.

    I had the mind sit there as I opened the window and left the room taking the rock with me.

    I walked past the rest of the group and walked outside and chucked the rock over the castle wall and onto the roof with my sling.

    I went back to breakfast where the group discussed how to deal with the castle, as I just sat there and commanded the mind to float out my window and proceed to kill every guard in the castle over the next 15 mins as there was nothing they could do about it.

    After breakfast I just told the rest of the group that I dealt with the castle already while eating breakfast.

    I did have to use mage hand twice through the projected mind in order to open a few doors but that was simple.

    Yeah, the ban hammer took a full swing.
    So firstly this wouldn't work, because the item has to be in your hands to use the overload attack but assuming that was waved for whatever reason...
    Hrmm. So i have a few questions. But the first issue is the range. Seemed like a really small castle. 300ft is alot but not that much..

    How did the guards react to a floating visage that was walking around and then guards just dropping? Because i think it would take forever to chase all the guards and kill them. Its visible (though spectral, still visible) and it needs to be within 5ft of the target. and thats only 2d8+4 on fail save assuming 18 int at 6, the guards should have more than 20 health, and its full damage on fail, no damage on success.

    Edit: course you could be spending all your spell slots. But thats only 6 slots (4 1st, 2 2nd level) and a castle should have way more people than that not to mention the fact you have to chase people with the mind.

    So i guess there was what 5 people there? and they just waited to die?
    Last edited by Mortis_Elrod; 2019-05-20 at 10:49 AM.

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterwhisper View Post
    Tried out the artificer this weekend as a PC, it lasted all of one combat before it was banned until revision.

    We were level 6 and I killed an entire castle just by using project mind and information overload.

    Some things I noticed:

    The projected mind can not move more than 300 feet away from the OBJECT it is coming from, not you.

    I simply sat in a house near the castle and manifested the mind from a rock I wrote some glyphs on.

    I had the mind sit there as I opened the window and left the room taking the rock with me.

    I walked past the rest of the group and walked outside and chucked the rock over the castle wall and onto the roof with my sling.

    I went back to breakfast where the group discussed how to deal with the castle, as I just sat there and commanded the mind to float out my window and proceed to kill every guard in the castle over the next 15 mins as there was nothing they could do about it.

    After breakfast I just told the rest of the group that I dealt with the castle already while eating breakfast.

    I did have to use mage hand twice through the projected mind in order to open a few doors but that was simple.

    Yeah, the ban hammer took a full swing.
    As mentioned earlier you hella broke the rules, even if you didn't know it. Both Manifest Mind and Information Overload explicitly state that you can do this as a bonus action "while the item is on your person".

    You are right about it not being able to move more than 300' away from the item that emanates it... but that item must also be on your person. So it effectively means it can't move more than 300' away from you.
    Last edited by FilthyLucre; 2019-05-20 at 11:31 AM.

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