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  1. - Top - End - #301
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Mortis_Elrod View Post
    So firstly this wouldn't work, because the item has to be in your hands to use the overload attack but assuming that was waved for whatever reason...
    Hrmm. So i have a few questions. But the first issue is the range. Seemed like a really small castle. 300ft is alot but not that much..

    How did the guards react to a floating visage that was walking around and then guards just dropping? Because i think it would take forever to chase all the guards and kill them. Its visible (though spectral, still visible) and it needs to be within 5ft of the target. and thats only 2d8+4 on fail save assuming 18 int at 6, the guards should have more than 20 health, and its full damage on fail, no damage on success.

    Edit: course you could be spending all your spell slots. But thats only 6 slots (4 1st, 2 2nd level) and a castle should have way more people than that not to mention the fact you have to chase people with the mind.

    So i guess there was what 5 people there? and they just waited to die?
    That is not what the ability does, or how it works.

    1. I guess my DM did not notice the item problem with overload, although I could have just followed it in under invisibility and then rope tricked somewhere.

    2. The floating specter must stay within 300 feet of the item it came from, not 300 feet from you.

    3. 300 feet radius is a 600ft wide sphere, easily enough to cover most castles.

    4. Information overload is not a spell and not subject to the limitation of using spells through the projected mind

    5. 30 feet of movement is not hard to harry people with, when the guards outside started to run away I just sent it in the castle.

    6. I only had to cast 2 spells through the projected mind, both were just mage hand to open a door or 2.

    7. All in all I want to say I killed about 8 guards before the rest just ran.



    Also the floating projected mind is the ultimate scouting tool.

    It is not invisible or anything but it has dark vision, can fly, and in impervious to abilities.
    Last edited by Misterwhisper; 2019-05-20 at 11:31 AM.

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterwhisper View Post
    Tried out the artificer this weekend as a PC, it lasted all of one combat before it was banned until revision.

    We were level 6 and I killed an entire castle just by using project mind and information overload.

    Some things I noticed:

    The projected mind can not move more than 300 feet away from the OBJECT it is coming from, not you.

    I simply sat in a house near the castle and manifested the mind from a rock I wrote some glyphs on.

    I had the mind sit there as I opened the window and left the room taking the rock with me.

    I walked past the rest of the group and walked outside and chucked the rock over the castle wall and onto the roof with my sling.

    I went back to breakfast where the group discussed how to deal with the castle, as I just sat there and commanded the mind to float out my window and proceed to kill every guard in the castle over the next 15 mins as there was nothing they could do about it.

    After breakfast I just told the rest of the group that I dealt with the castle already while eating breakfast.

    I did have to use mage hand twice through the projected mind in order to open a few doors but that was simple.

    Yeah, the ban hammer took a full swing.
    You need to have the item on your person to use information overload

  3. - Top - End - #303
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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterwhisper View Post
    That is not what the ability does, or how it works.

    1. I guess my DM did not notice the item problem with overload, although I could have just followed it in under invisibility and then rope tricked somewhere.

    2. The floating specter must stay within 300 feet of the item it came from, not 300 feet from you.

    3. 300 feet radius is a 600ft wide sphere, easily enough to cover most castles.

    4. Information overload is not a spell and not subject to the limitation of using spells through the projected mind

    5. 30 feet of movement is not hard to harry people with, when the guards outside started to run away I just sent it in the castle.

    6. I only had to cast 2 spells through the projected mind, both were just mage hand to open a door or 2.

    7. All in all I want to say I killed about 8 guards before the rest just ran.



    Also the floating projected mind is the ultimate scouting tool.

    It is not invisible or anything but it has dark vision, can fly, and in impervious to abilities.
    The item has to be on your person for both abilities to function. Even though it's clumsily worded, it boils down to still having to be within 300' of you because the item has to be on your person.

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterwhisper View Post
    That is not what the ability does, or how it works.

    1. I guess my DM did not notice the item problem with overload, although I could have just followed it in under invisibility and then rope tricked somewhere.

    2. The floating specter must stay within 300 feet of the item it came from, not 300 feet from you.

    3. 300 feet radius is a 600ft wide sphere, easily enough to cover most castles.

    4. Information overload is not a spell and not subject to the limitation of using spells through the projected mind

    5. 30 feet of movement is not hard to harry people with, when the guards outside started to run away I just sent it in the castle.

    6. I only had to cast 2 spells through the projected mind, both were just mage hand to open a door or 2.

    7. All in all I want to say I killed about 8 guards before the rest just ran.



    Also the floating projected mind is the ultimate scouting tool.

    It is not invisible or anything but it has dark vision, can fly, and in impervious to abilities.
    Not once did i mention spell limitations, I was saying the damage output would just be mediocre without expending spell slots, and the ability itself doesnt do any damage unless they fail the save.

    Also It DOES have to be within 5ft of the target thats what it says.

    "As an action while the item is on your person, you can try to magically overload the thoughts of one creature you or the mind can see that is within 5 feet of the manifested mind, channeling a jumble of information from the artificial mind."

    The item has to be in your hand to use the Overload function. Which means you have only a 300ft range(radius) centered on you, and it cant go through walls, it only moves 30ft max per turn, and it has to be 5ft away from the target, only targeting one creature per turn, and you either take full damage or no damage on success/fail of save.

    even 8 guards seems excessive, one you could sneak up on, maybe 2. I think that was entirely on the DM not reacting well.

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Anyone think we'll get a new Artificer in the new Eberron Hardcover book?
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedMage125 View Post
    Anyone think we'll get a new Artificer in the new Eberron Hardcover book?
    I would be absolutely shocked if the hardcover ebberon book doesn't contain the official/final artificer.

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Just saw this idea on another site. Apologies if it's been mentioned in this thread already.

    What if the homunculus was an infusion? Thus available to all Artificer's but not baked into any of them.

    Iron Defender could be a higher level infusion.

    Seems like an elegant way of handling the "Pet Problem"

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by GlenSmash! View Post
    Just saw this idea on another site. Apologies if it's been mentioned in this thread already.

    What if the homunculus was an infusion? Thus available to all Artificer's but not baked into any of them.

    Iron Defender could be a higher level infusion.

    Seems like an elegant way of handling the "Pet Problem"
    Wouldn't be a terrible idea. It'd basically be a lot like the Warlock, having a lot of customization for singular, reusable, unique tricks.

    The trick would then come down to figuring out what the differences between the Warlock and the Artificer would be, and whether those differences helped define themselves. You don't just want the Artificer to be "The Warlock, but with Long Rest spells and buffs".
    Last edited by Man_Over_Game; 2019-05-20 at 12:33 PM.
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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Here is a quick write up of the Artillerist rework I promised. Please forgive any logical holes in the sake of brevity. Feel free to offer critique.

    Level 3: Arcane Cannonade
    You create a medium sized construct that can take the form of say a belching frogbeast, a drake/dragon with a cannon mouth, or a diminutive golem with a cannon on its back, basically any squat vaguely quadrupedal or “monkey run” type creature with a visible cannon as a mouth or mounted to it. You pick one configuration & can change it per short or long rest

    HP: 5xLevel +Int
    AC: 18
    Spd: 30ft

    Immunity to Poison, charm, exhaustion
    Darkvision 60ft
    Skills: Athletics +2 Perception +4

    Might of the Master

    Actions: (Configurations)
    Flamethrower
    Force Ballista
    Healing Aura

    Reaction
    Repulse, if struck make the target makes a DC 10+Int+Prof or be flung back 10ft

    Stats
    Str 14
    Dex 10
    Con 15
    Int 4
    Wis 10
    Cha 7

    At level 6 you can add your Int to all Arcane Cannonade attacks

    At level 14 you get Fortified Position as normal except instead of getting two turrets the damage of all attacks made by the Arcane Cannonade gain an extra die of damage, & Repulse does 1d6 damage

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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post
    Wouldn't be a terrible idea. It'd basically be a lot like the Warlock, having a lot of customization for singular, reusable, unique tricks.

    The trick would then come down to figuring out what the differences between the Warlock and the Artificer would be, and whether those differences helped define themselves. You don't just want the Artificer to be "The Warlock, but with Long Rest spells and buffs".
    I am guilty of thinking more classes should be built like the Warlock. One of my favorite Ranger Hombrews had features that essentially functioned like Invocations.

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Question: Would people prefer something like an infusion that turns a crossbow into a gun or a full gunsmith subclass? I don't know if getting a single item/special ranged weapon attack justifies an entire subclass to itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fnissalot View Post
    The issue with the turret is that it is called turret. Call it an automaton wand, animated wand, wandbot-3000, self-casting wand with legs, or wandslinging construct. The name turret gives the wrong associations. The concept is cool. What is the difference between a gun and a wand? You know enough about one to understand how it works. Both would look like magic otherwise.
    An issue. It has a few, such as being not quite a creature and also not quite an object. Guns are also not universally applicable, though they are much less contentious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anderlith View Post
    You do realize that a siegestaff is the size of a trebuchet right? It’s supposed to be a staff of steroids that is impractical to carry around
    I did not.

    Sidenote: I object to every subclass getting a pet. Subclasses are supposed to provide both thematic and mechanical variety, in some cases redefining how that class/character plays. If all subclasses give you different variations of the same thing, that thing should be part of the main class to leave room for the subclasses to differentiate.
    Last edited by Kane0; 2019-05-20 at 06:05 PM.
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Question: Would people prefer something like an infusion that turns a crossbow into a gun or a full gunsmith subclass?
    I think it was more the appeal of having a special weapon to use class abilities with.

    I don’t really care what form it takes.

    It would have to be reworked completely though due to them getting a second attack essentially.

    The second attack throws everything off for it.

    Not sure if it was get rid of guns but give them a second attack or give them a second attack but had to take out the gun.

    I always liked weapon specialists.

    Really miss the weapon focus and specialization stuff.

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    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by GlenSmash! View Post
    Just saw this idea on another site. Apologies if it's been mentioned in this thread already.

    What if the homunculus was an infusion? Thus available to all Artificer's but not baked into any of them.

    Iron Defender could be a higher level infusion.

    Seems like an elegant way of handling the "Pet Problem"
    Only if you view it as problem.

    I like the Pets, and that they have unique strengths and weaknesses, on top of specific flavor for the subclass. I think making them infusions undermines that.

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Sidenote: I object to every subclass getting a pet. Subclasses are supposed to provide both thematic and mechanical variety, in some cases redefining how that class/character plays. If all subclasses give you different variations of the same thing, that thing should be part of the main class to leave room for the subclasses to differentiate.
    I’m staunchly on the other end. A thematically appropriate Homunculus would be perfect.

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Trustypeaches View Post
    Only if you view it as problem.

    I like the Pets, and that they have unique strengths and weaknesses, on top of specific flavor for the subclass. I think making them infusions undermines that.
    I dislike having pets but I think it would be foolish to tailor to just my needs alone. I am after all only one person. I felt having a choice is a better way of satisfying both camps.

    You could still have the unique flavors even with a Homunculus Infusion. either by having multiple Infusions with subclass type as a prereq, or having a single Infusion but the form it takes depends on the subclass.

    Ultimately if there is a pet, I'll just end up refluffing it anyway.

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Anderlith View Post
    I’m staunchly on the other end. A thematically appropriate Homunculus would be perfect.
    So incorporate the pet into the primary part of the class, then differentiate it in the subclass. Say level 1 you get your pet, level 2 casting/infusions and level 3 your specialisation (which modifies your pet into a walking/floating cannon, mini iron golem, Iron man suit, warp aci, whatever).
    I totally think we can have our cake and eat it too, WotC just needs to not be lazy about it.
    Last edited by Kane0; 2019-05-20 at 06:56 PM.
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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    So incorporate the pet into the primary part of the class, then differentiate it in the subclass. Say level 1 you get your pet, level 2 casting/infusions and level 3 your specialisation (which modifies your pet into a walking/floating cannon, mini iron golem, Iron man suit, warp aci, whatever).
    I totally think we can have our cake and eat it too, WotC just needs to not be lazy about it.
    It’s implemented in the best fashion, as a given class feature but specialized through subclasses. I will agree that the subclasses should split at level one, though. They should gain their spell lists & tools at level one.

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Anderlith View Post
    It’s implemented in the best fashion, as a given class feature but specialized through subclasses. I will agree that the subclasses should split at level one, though. They should gain their spell lists & tools at level one.
    That's too much front load, it's like asking for it to be a dip class

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukelnikov View Post
    That's too much front load, it's like asking for it to be a dip class
    I'll have to second this, we don't want a repeat of Hexblade. Level 3 subclass split is necessary, especially if they do decide to print Int to hit/damage.

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    I dont want the base class to be lessened to make room for a pet. Especially since they can always just make a subclass without one.

    I like how it is, the subclasses have their own pet project they work on. Its how it should be IMO.

    Level 3 split is also fine, makes it seem like there is some unifying basic tinkering everyone goes through before fixating on something. Making mobile armor that does the defending for you, animating information that gathers itself for you, an attempt on creating life, semi self automated mobile siege weapons, all of it coming from tinkering with magic, some favorite materials and tools, and discovery through experimentation.

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Ok, I sorta have an idea. What about a choice between pet and subclass appropriate self buff?

    Let's see, artillerist gets either a turret or a "wand-gun"

    Battlesmith gets a robodog or a power armor.

    Archivist gets a brain cap or the AI (should be a docent for eberron lore purpose, but watever)

    Achemist gets a humonculous or decoction they drink to enhance their abilities. Could be used to turn into Mr Hyde or somesuch.
    Last edited by Bloodcloud; 2019-05-21 at 09:38 AM.

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodcloud View Post
    Ok, I sorta have an idea. What about a choice?

    Let's see, artillerist gets either a turret or a "wand-gun"

    Battlesmith gets a robodog or a power armor.

    Archivist gets a brain cap or the AI (should be a docent for eberron lore purpose, but watever)

    Achemist gets a humonculous or decoction they drink to enhance their abilities. Could be used to turn into Mr Hyde or somesuch.

    Self buff versus pet.
    I dig it. I'd be all for that!

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    I’d actually give battlesmith the choice of armor, shield or weapon, then have cyberkitty available to someone else

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Anyone else thinking almost all Borderlands Vault Hunters can be made with the Artificer? Roland and Axton are Artillerists, FL4K is a Battle Smith, Maya and Lilith are Archivists, Mordecai is an Alchemist (using the homonculous as Bloodwing), etc.

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    I was talking with my wife last night, and came up with this - break the class down in a similar way to the warlock. First level is your first split, you choose your main tool - a melee weapon, a ranged weapon (crossbow or gun, depending on flavour allowed) , or a wand. You get some kind of buff to that - things like the repeating infusion for the ranged weapon would be ideal. Maybe the wand user gets to cantrip twice once they get to extra attack, or maybe they're the only version that gets cantrips.

    Oh, and every version gets mending automatically, because seriously? Come on.

    Then at third level, you have been tinkering enough to build your support. This is where you get your iron guardian, your homonculus, your turrets, or your powered armor.

    That way you can mix and match. A wand slinger with a robot pet? Check. Guns and powered armor (or wands) to make iron man? Check. Melee fighter with his turrets to support? Can do.

    My only concern is stepping on the warlocks toes, but I think this plus the more standard half caster chassis would work fairly well.
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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodcloud View Post
    Ok, I sorta have an idea. What about a choice between pet and subclass appropriate self buff?

    Let's see, artillerist gets either a turret or a "wand-gun"

    Battlesmith gets a robodog or a power armor.

    Archivist gets a brain cap or the AI (should be a docent for eberron lore purpose, but watever)

    Achemist gets a humonculous or decoction they drink to enhance their abilities. Could be used to turn into Mr Hyde or somesuch.
    Eh, I'd much rather have 4 good subclasses than 8 half-assed ones. I wouldn't mind if the Battlesmith got BOTH a power suit and a robodog, or the Alchemist gets a homunculus and a decoction.

    The Hunter Ranger isn't necessarily a melee combatant or a ranged one, he can be both. The Battle Master doesn't have to be a captain or a hero, he can be both. There's nothing wrong with allowing people to do two things.
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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    I gotta ask, what is with this obsession with guns & power armor? It has never been the flavor of Artificers to have either one, how do you even justify something like a power armor which takes up a body slot & attunement (I would hope) no other class works even close to that. No class features “signature weapons” in that manner. They are all structured in a way of “I am enhancing this weapon I wield through x means”

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Anderlith View Post
    I gotta ask, what is with this obsession with guns & power armor? It has never been the flavor of Artificers to have either one, how do you even justify something like a power armor which takes up a body slot & attunement (I would hope) no other class works even close to that. No class features “signature weapons” in that manner. They are all structured in a way of “I am enhancing this weapon I wield through x means”
    That's exactly the reason why: Nobody else does it.

    Nobody else relies on short rest spell slots or invocations, and yet we have the Warlock. Nobody else relies on spending spell slots to enhance attacks, and that's the Paladin's defining feature. The fact that it's an unused space in the system means that we should be looking into ways of filling that niche.

    We make classes to make things stand out. I'd much rather see an Artificer with a battle suit than a giant beast pet thing, if only because that's what I envision when I think of an artificer.

    I don't think it'd have to be a whole "suit", simply some kind of augment would be fine. Treat it like a Concentration spell you can cast, that must target yourself or an object you're holding, and you have Advantage on that Concentration check. Would make a cool infusion. Now, that COULD be a Shield of Faith defense field, or that COULD be a pseudo-image projector with Blur, or it could be Tenser's Transformation, the Battle Suit. There's a lot of things you could do with it.
    Last edited by Man_Over_Game; 2019-05-21 at 11:33 AM.
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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Anderlith View Post
    I gotta ask, what is with this obsession with guns & power armor? It has never been the flavor of Artificers to have either one, how do you even justify something like a power armor which takes up a body slot & attunement (I would hope) no other class works even close to that. No class features “signature weapons” in that manner. They are all structured in a way of “I am enhancing this weapon I wield through x means”
    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post
    That's exactly the reason why: Nobody else does it.

    Nobody else relies on short rest spell slots or invocations, and yet we have the Warlock. Nobody else relies on spending spell slots to enhance attacks, and that's the Paladin's defining feature.

    We make classes to make things stand out. I'd much rather see an Artificer with a battle suit than a giant beast pet thing, if only because that's what I envision when I think of an artificer.

    I don't think it'd have to be a whole "suit", simply some kind of augment would be fine. Treat it like a Concentration spell you can cast, that must target yourself or an object you're holding, and you have Advantage on that Concentration check. Would make a cool infusion.
    Not entirely true, the UA School of Invention wizard has exactly that, problem was it sucked

    **************************
    Arcanomechanical Armor
    "Innovation is a dangerous practice, at least as far as members of this school practice it. As a shield against this risk, you have developed a suit of arcane armor.

    Starting at 2nd level, you gain proficiency with light armor and gain a suit of arcanomechanical armor—a magic item that only you can attune to. While you are attuned to it and wearing it, it grants you resistance to force damage.

    The armor is light armor and provides an AC of 12 + your Dexterity modifier. It weighs 8 pounds.

    You can create a new suit of it at the end of a long rest by touching a nonmagical suit of studded leather armor, which magically transforms it. Doing so removes the magic from your previous arcanomechanical armor, turning it in to nonmagical studded leather."
    **************************

    You basically were spending an attunement slot for resistance against force damage.

    The class itself was a "discount" Lore Wizard (this one was playable), but the main feature ended up becoming the Mizzium Armor, so this will never see print.
    Last edited by Rukelnikov; 2019-05-21 at 11:38 AM.

  30. - Top - End - #330
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: The artificer returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Rukelnikov View Post
    Not entirely true, the UA School of Invention wizard has exactly that, problem was it sucked

    **************************
    Arcanomechanical Armor
    "Innovation is a dangerous practice, at least as far as members of this school practice it. As a shield against this risk, you have developed a suit of arcane armor.

    Starting at 2nd level, you gain proficiency with light armor and gain a suit of arcanomechanical armor—a magic item that only you can attune to. While you are attuned to it and wearing it, it grants you resistance to force damage.

    The armor is light armor and provides an AC of 12 + your Dexterity modifier. It weighs 8 pounds.

    You can create a new suit of it at the end of a long rest by touching a nonmagical suit of studded leather armor, which magically transforms it. Doing so removes the magic from your previous arcanomechanical armor, turning it in to nonmagical studded leather."
    **************************

    You basically were spending an attunement slot for resistance against force damage.

    The class itself was a "discount" Lore Wizard (this one was playable), but the main feature ended up becoming the Mizzium Armor, so this will never see print.
    Sure, but that's why we learn from the past. Just looking at the Artificer for an example, how many revisions has it probably gone through?

    Like...5 at this point? Yet, we're pretty hyped, despite all those failures.

    1 botched tech suit isn't so bad, I think.
    Quote Originally Posted by KOLE View Post
    MOG, design a darn RPG system. Seriously, the amount of ideas I’ve gleaned from your posts has been valuable. You’re a gem of the community here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post

    5th Edition Homebrewery

    Prestige Options, changing primary attributes while maintaining balance with default options.
    Adrenaline Surge, fitting Short Rests into combat to fix bosses/Short Rest Classes.
    Pain, using Exhaustion to make tactical martial combatants.
    Fate Sorcery, lucky winner of the 5e D&D Subclass Contest VII!

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