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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Default Fighter second action

    So my party just reached lvl 5. So i got a second action per round. I typically two weapon fight but the second attack is considered a bonus action, so am i able to take 4 attacks or just 2 main and one off?

    Also can i use my second action to ready an action? So i can attack with the first action then ready to cast a spell at a target when they do a specific thing? (Im an EK)

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Fighter second action

    So, you don't actually get a second action. What the Extra Attack feature means is that when you use your action to attack, you can attack twice instead of once. So you could use your action to attack twice, then attack with your OH once as a bonus action.
    Last edited by Genoin; 2019-05-16 at 06:04 AM.

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Fighter second action

    On the other hand, as a Fighter, you can take an actual extra action, occasionally, using your Action Surge ability. So in a single round, you could:

    Take your regular Action to attack, and thus make two attacks.
    Use your Action Surge to take another action to attack, and thus make two more attacks.
    Use your Bonus Action to attack again, with your off-hand weapon.

    So in total, you're making five attacks, four with your main weapon and one with your second weapon. You could not make another attack with the off-hand weapon, neither from your Extra Attack feature nor from nor your Action Surge: Extra Attack only applies when you're using your action, not your bonus action, and Action Surge gives you an extra action, but not an extra bonus action. There's no ability in the game that lets you take a second Bonus Action in a turn (though there are a few that let you do more with a single bonus action).
    Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
    As You Like It, III:ii:328

    Chronos's Unalliterative Skillmonkey Guide
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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Chimera

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    Default Re: Fighter second action

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowbane13 View Post
    So my party just reached lvl 5. So i got a second action per round. I typically two weapon fight but the second attack is considered a bonus action, so am i able to take 4 attacks or just 2 main and one off?

    Also can i use my second action to ready an action? So i can attack with the first action then ready to cast a spell at a target when they do a specific thing? (Im an EK)
    As others have pointed out, your bonus-action attack is always going to stay as one extra attack (one of main complaints about 2wf has been that it doesn't scale as you level up, despite the opportunity-cost scaling). Also, you do not get a second action from being a 5th level fighter. EK have special abilities (at 7th and 18th levels) which does allow you to cast spells (cantrips only for the 7th level one) and get a single attack as well.


    Clarification from someone with the books in front of them. My group has had it such that -- provided you are holding a weapon in each hand-- you can mix and match with which weapon to make an attack with each of your non-bonus-action attacks. For example, using Chronos example of an action-surging 5th level fighter, it could be 3 swings with one weapon and 2 with the other instead of 4 and 1. Is that rules-supported or did we just decide it made sense?
    Last edited by Willie the Duck; 2019-05-16 at 07:07 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    May 2019

    Default Re: Fighter second action

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowbane13 View Post
    So my party just reached lvl 5. So i got a second action per round. I typically two weapon fight but the second attack is considered a bonus action, so am i able to take 4 attacks or just 2 main and one off?

    Also can i use my second action to ready an action? So i can attack with the first action then ready to cast a spell at a target when they do a specific thing? (Im an EK)
    As others have said, Extra Attack is not a second action. It simply means that, when you take your attack action, you attack twice.

    You don't get a second bonus action, so you can only hit twice as your action and once as your bonus action with your off-hand weapon.

    If you choose to ready your action for later you give up both of your attacks on that turn.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Fighter second action

    Quote Originally Posted by OgataiKhan View Post
    As others have said, Extra Attack is not a second action. It simply means that, when you take your attack action, you attack twice.

    You don't get a second bonus action, so you can only hit twice as your action and once as your bonus action with your off-hand weapon.

    If you choose to ready your action for later you give up both of your attacks on that turn.
    And as my DM reminded me tonight, extra attack only works on your turn, not on a reaction. Bye bye Pally Crit smite.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Fighter second action

    What does extra attack or what turn you're attacking on have to do with paladin critical smites? You can crit on any attack, and you can smite on any attack.
    Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
    As You Like It, III:ii:328

    Chronos's Unalliterative Skillmonkey Guide
    Current Homebrew: Blood Warrior Shadow Rider

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Default Re: Fighter second action

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
    What does extra attack or what turn you're attacking on have to do with paladin critical smites? You can crit on any attack, and you can smite on any attack.
    I guess he rolled two attacks when his ready action triggered, and the second one critter, otherwise, no idea.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Fighter second action

    Quote Originally Posted by Rukelnikov View Post
    I guess he rolled two attacks when his ready action triggered, and the second one critter, otherwise, no idea.
    This. It was rather upsetting to ignore the second attacks damage.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Default Re: Fighter second action

    Thanks for the information.

    I have a follow up question though. Would i be able to split the actions? Like the first action i use an attack and bonus OH weapon and then on second attack cast a spell? (As long as it takes a single action?)

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NinjaGirl

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    Default Re: Fighter second action

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowbane13 View Post
    Thanks for the information.

    I have a follow up question though. Would i be able to split the actions? Like the first action i use an attack and bonus OH weapon and then on second attack cast a spell? (As long as it takes a single action?)
    As said previously, you do not get two actions (unless you do action surge) you get two attacks per action. You can split your attacks up, but you can't replace your attacks with spells.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Fighter second action

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunali View Post
    As said previously, you do not get two actions (unless you do action surge) you get two attacks per action. You can split your attacks up, but you can't replace your attacks with spells.
    Well, it depends on if they’re still talking about the same thing, or if they are talking about Action Surge. With Action Surge, though, you can use your second action as a second action. So you could do one attack action, use a bonus action off-hand attack, and then use Action Surge to get a second action and cast a spell. (Granted, you’re likely going to need a free hand to cast the spell, or take the Warcaster feat, but still)

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Fighter second action

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie the Duck View Post
    Clarification from someone with the books in front of them. My group has had it such that -- provided you are holding a weapon in each hand-- you can mix and match with which weapon to make an attack with each of your non-bonus-action attacks. For example, using Chronos example of an action-surging 5th level fighter, it could be 3 swings with one weapon and 2 with the other instead of 4 and 1. Is that rules-supported or did we just decide it made sense?
    I am fairly certain you are correct. ‘Main-hand’ and ‘off-hand’ aren’t a thing in the rules; specifically the rules for twf are

    Quote Originally Posted by Roll 20
    Two-Weapon Fighting

    When you take the Attack action and Attack with a light melee weapon that you’re holding in one hand, you can use a Bonus Action to Attack with a different light melee weapon that you’re holding in the other hand.
    So the only attack pattern that is not allowed is making all of your attacks with the same weapon.
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  14. - Top - End - #14
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Fighter second action

    Well, true. But in general, either your weapons are both the same, or one of your weapons is better than the other. If they're the same, then it doesn't matter which one you're using, and if one is better, then you want as many attacks as possible to be with the better weapon, and only one with the worse one. You could split up your attacks however you want between the two weapons, but except for the rare case where you're fighting two different enemies against which different weapons will be more effective, there's no reason to.
    Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
    As You Like It, III:ii:328

    Chronos's Unalliterative Skillmonkey Guide
    Current Homebrew: Blood Warrior Shadow Rider

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Fighter second action

    That’s true. I imagine TWF is worded the way it is specifically to stop you from just attacking with your better weapon for all your attacks.
    Last edited by Darc_Vader; 2019-05-19 at 12:37 AM. Reason: Removed redundancy

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Fighter second action

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie the Duck View Post
    Clarification from someone with the books in front of them. My group has had it such that -- provided you are holding a weapon in each hand-- you can mix and match with which weapon to make an attack with each of your non-bonus-action attacks. For example, using Chronos example of an action-surging 5th level fighter, it could be 3 swings with one weapon and 2 with the other instead of 4 and 1. Is that rules-supported or did we just decide it made sense?
    Yes, this is RAW. For each attack you make as part of the attack action, you decide exactly which of your attack options to take. Lets look at a 5th level shadow monks options quickly to clarify.

    Before the fight, the shadow monk used two actions on two turns to poison two separate daggers. He had some drow poison and he wants to put some people to sleep with it, but his unarmed strikes do more damage than his daggers, so if he's not poisoning someone he'd like to make unarmed strike attacks.

    He enters the fight, and uses his first attack to strike an enemy. If that enemy becomes poisoned and falls unconscious, he might decide to attack the next enemy with his other poisoned dagger (in his other hand), or to use an unarmed strike, if he only wanted one person asleep.

    Because he isn't using his bonus action to make a special two-weapon fighting attack, he adds his ability modifier to the damage of every attack he makes this turn.

    The poison usage here helps explain why someone might care enough to try attacking with two different weapons, each wielded in a different hand, using a single action with the extra attack feature. It allows a melee attacker to deliver two doses of poison in a single action, either to one enemy or many.

    Another example might be a character with two magic weapons, each of which is better against a particular type of enemy. In a fight with a variety of enemies, such a character might attack with weapon one against the first enemy he attacks, but then defeat that enemy and decide to use weapon two for his second attack against the other enemy. Perhaps he has a frost brand and a flame tongue, and he's fighting some creatures with vulnerability to fire damage, and some other creatures with vulnerability to frost damage.

    Note that this character doesn't need to follow any of the restriction described under the section on two-weapon fighting, because he isn't using his bonus action to make an additional two-weapon fighting bonus attack.
    The Stormwind Fallacy, Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa.

    Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game.

    Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse roleplayer if he optimizes, and vice versa.
    Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically roleplayed better than an optimized one, and vice versa.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Tanarii's Avatar

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    Default Re: Fighter second action

    Another example might be someone that hacks down their opponent with their long sword, uses their object interaction to drawn a hand axe, and throws it at an opponent.

    Or a person that wants to RP attacking with two one handed weapons prior to getting the dual wielder feat, and alternates attacks between one in each hand. Possibly on different rounds if they don't yet have Extra Attack. The latter is suboptimal to using two light weapons and a bonus action though, if you've got the BA to spare.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Chimera

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    Default Re: Fighter second action

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanarii View Post
    Or a person that wants to RP attacking with two one handed weapons prior to getting the dual wielder feat, and alternates attacks between one in each hand. Possibly on different rounds if they don't yet have Extra Attack. The latter is suboptimal to using two light weapons and a bonus action though, if you've got the BA to spare.
    Yes, predominantly the issue would be verisimilitude -- your hasted level 20 twf fighter is making 5 attacks with one hand and only 1 with the other? There are ways to explain it, but not better than saying, 'well, if you wanted to, but otherwise it could be 3 and 3.'

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