need help not screwing up dm carefully laid plans

[Torpin]

So our last session left us stranded on some plane that i dont remember off the top of my head and im playing a 7th level warlock, who took banishment for my first known fourth level spell. I need a reason on why banishing us 1 at a time back to the material plane could be worse than our current predicament.

[Frozenstep]

You don't know where on your home plane you'll end up, I think. You may even end up all appearing in different locations, split up, especially if you're doing one party member at a time hours apart (I assume short resting to get back the spell slot).

[Torpin]

You don't know where on your home plane you'll end up, I think. You may even end up all appearing in different locations, split up, especially if you're doing one party member at a time hours apart (I assume short resting to get back the spell slot).

thats right, first person gets temporarily banished but ended up in the ocean and we bring them back and decide its not worth the risk. thanks

[Asmotherion]

You don't know where on your home plane you'll end up, I think. You may even end up all appearing in different locations, split up, especially if you're doing one party member at a time hours apart (I assume short resting to get back the spell slot).

that+ if you split the party you'll have to face deadlyer encounters (designed for the full party) with half your party.

[Unoriginal]

As a player, respecting the DM involves not dumbing your character down when there's an obvious solution to the situation.

If your DM made you fight a monster that's almost impossible to defeat but that's also mortaly vulnerable to adamantine, the players shouldn't refrain from pointing out they already have adamantine on them at the moment, even if the DM had a whole quest ready to go to acquire it.

Just tell you DM that you got Banishmsnz before next session, so they can plan ahead or give you reasons to stay in the plane for a while.

[JackPhoenix]

thats right, first person gets temporarily banished but ended up in the ocean and we bring them back and decide its not worth the risk. thanks

The caster has no knowledge where the banished creature ended up. If you banish someone, you don't know if he arrived home, fell into the ocean or appeared in unguarded treasure room somewhere.

[DMThac0]

As a player, respecting the DM involves not dumbing your character down when there's an obvious solution to the situation.

If your DM made you fight a monster that's almost impossible to defeat but that's also mortaly vulnerable to adamantine, the players shouldn't refrain from pointing out they already have adamantine on them at the moment, even if the DM had a whole quest ready to go to acquire it.

Just tell you DM that you got Banishmsnz before next session, so they can plan ahead or give you reasons to stay in the plane for a while.

This is pretty much my sentiment.

After playing the game for 30+ years, most of it on the DM side, I've seen a lot. I would rather have my player explain that they've got some spell, item, or ability that they're going to try rather than pretend they don't have an answer to a problem because they're afraid of ruining the game.

The players drive the game, and if the DM can't accept that sometimes their plans for the session may fail, they need to readdress their role.

[Danielqueue1]

The caster has no knowledge where the banished creature ended up. If you banish someone, you don't know if he arrived home, fell into the ocean or appeared in unguarded treasure room somewhere.

that's why he said "temporarily banished" as in casting the spell but not maintaining concentration on the spell for the full duration.

Banish->wait 30 seconds-> end concentration-> paladin re-appears sopping wet.
"Did it work?"
"oh it was the material plane alright. but I popped 3 miles off the coast IN HEAVY ARMOR"
"we could try again and-"
"NO! we find a way back some other way!"

-thus we see that by a single simple twist. the characters act in character, have an in-universe reason to not use the above mentioned resource on their own characters, and the players can have fun with the plot the DM has probably spent a long time preparing.

of course this would require working with the players and DM for the fun of the game.

Edit: one may notice that in the banishment spell, returning to one's own home plane does not have the "harmless" clause in it.

[Pyramid Pug]

My character was in a similar position, halfway through the story arc while facing a particularly lethal encounter, I noticed the little blurb on Banishment stating that. Felt like a potato for not noticing it earlier.

After dealing with the encounter I talked OOC with the rest of the party and we decided amongst ourselves that we wouldn't use it 'cause our DM had had all this work so far setting up this story work (and again we were halfway through it already). He simply said we were free to try if we wanted, tho I guess he was happy at our consideration.

Plus I bet it would go somethin' along the lines " You cast the spell, but a stronger force blocks the walls between planes" (the plane was the domain of a god that had a vested interest in keeping us there).

[Temperjoke]

If you have an ability that you think might fix a situation, but could interfere with a DM's plans, it's worth bringing it up and talking about it. You never know, it might actually make things easier for the DM if you do.

Like with your Banish idea, what if the DM uses it to introduce some powerful NPC who hijacks the banishment to bring you all to him? Your DM might have intended for you guys to meet this person in hopes of getting home, but now all the uncertainty of whether you guys would follow his breadcrumb trail is gone, and you're definitely getting to the next stage of the DM's plan.

Don't try and second guess the DM, it's better to communicate.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

The DM may think you will use the spell and surprised if you don't.

From my experience as a GM, players are wired and do stuff that will always destroy all your plans and that's part of the fun ;)

Talk to your DM and use the spell unless he ask you not to use it.

[tchntm43]

This is pretty much my sentiment.

After playing the game for 30+ years, most of it on the DM side, I've seen a lot. I would rather have my player explain that they've got some spell, item, or ability that they're going to try rather than pretend they don't have an answer to a problem because they're afraid of ruining the game.

The players drive the game, and if the DM can't accept that sometimes their plans for the session may fail, they need to readdress their role.

I feel like this is something that shouldn't even come up. How does the DM not know that the party has those things?

I often try to write situations when I'm preparing the adventure that take into account spells or items I know the party has. For example, I know the ranger in my group has a potion of climbing. It's been a couple adventures since she got it and she hasn't had a good opportunity to use it. I'm intentionally creating part of the next adventure to have an opportunity for her to use that to skip a large area, but not without consequences. Of course, I can create these situations but the party still only recognizes the short-cut solutions I've created maybe 1/10th of the time. It's cool when they figure it out, though.

[JackPhoenix]

that's why he said "temporarily banished" as in casting the spell but not maintaining concentration on the spell for the full duration.

Banish->wait 30 seconds-> end concentration-> paladin re-appears sopping wet.
"Did it work?"
"oh it was the material plane alright. but I popped 3 miles off the coast IN HEAVY ARMOR"
"we could try again and-"
"NO! we find a way back some other way!"

-thus we see that by a single simple twist. the characters act in character, have an in-universe reason to not use the above mentioned resource on their own characters, and the players can have fun with the plot the DM has probably spent a long time preparing.

of course this would require working with the players and DM for the fun of the game.

Edit: one may notice that in the banishment spell, returning to one's own home plane does not have the "harmless" clause in it.

That doesn't help anything.

"Did it work?"
"Yeah, I was home. Just where we left from, in fact."
"Cool, let's do it again. When I get slots to do it"
*Appears inside active volcano on the second atempt*

[DMThac0]

I feel like this is something that shouldn't even come up. How does the DM not know that the party has those things?

I often try to write situations when I'm preparing the adventure that take into account spells or items I know the party has. For example, I know the ranger in my group has a potion of climbing. It's been a couple adventures since she got it and she hasn't had a good opportunity to use it. I'm intentionally creating part of the next adventure to have an opportunity for her to use that to skip a large area, but not without consequences. Of course, I can create these situations but the party still only recognizes the short-cut solutions I've created maybe 1/10th of the time. It's cool when they figure it out, though.

I don't track my players' sheets, I trust them to keep everything documented and accounted for. I have a strong understanding of the game so I generally know if they're making a mistake, forgot they'd used all their level 3 spell slots, miscalculated their damage, or stuff like that. I do not know what spells they have, I trust them to keep that organized. As I tell my players: if it's not on your sheet, you don't have it.

When I put together my sessions I take into account what the NPC(s) are trying to accomplish, where the party is headed, what is going on in that area of the world, etc. I don't make any of my decisions based on what the characters do or don't have. The reason is two fold:

1) the NPC(s) don't know what the party has, they only have the rumors and information that their surviving grunts have told them. Some of the tools, spells and abilities may change in that time, so the NPC is misinformed. (I may have an idea on some of the stuff they have because of memory, notes or looking back on the stream, but the NPC may not have that information).

2) The party is supposed to be able to figure out how to accomplish their tasks. I have the world turn as it should, events happen, tasks and trials appear and the players engage with them. If they don't have the tools necessary to accomplish the task, it's their job to figure out how to get the tools. If they do have the tools to accomplish the task, then they finish with less trouble. I just give them the scenario and then resolve their actions.

[Danielqueue1]

That doesn't help anything.

"Did it work?"
"Yeah, I was home. Just where we left from, in fact."
"Cool, let's do it again. When I get slots to do it"
*Appears inside active volcano on the second atempt*

It's almost as if the title of the thread was "need help not screwing up DM carefully laid plans." as opposed to 'I need a way to kill some characters who try to use banish to escape my railroad of a campaign'
It's also as though I was directly responding to a person who stated that, "The caster has no knowledge where the banished creature ended up." even though what had been quoted by them explicitly stated a way to figure out that there might be a flaw with the plan, which is all that is needed for a person to decide they don't want to risk it.
It's almost as though I was deliberately building a roleplay scenario that matches the idea stated by the OP that could be done easily and without loss of much time or resources by players who do not want to screw up dm carefully laid plans. and would require less than a minute of talking with the DM to set up by people who actually want to play what the DM set up but would like an in-character reason to do so.

[JackPhoenix]

It's almost as if the title of the thread was "need help not screwing up DM carefully laid plans." as opposed to 'I need a way to kill some characters who try to use banish to escape my railroad of a campaign'
It's also as though I was directly responding to a person who stated that, "The caster has no knowledge where the banished creature ended up." even though what had been quoted by them explicitly stated a way to figure out that there might be a flaw with the plan, which is all that is needed for a person to decide they don't want to risk it.
It's almost as though I was deliberately building a roleplay scenario that matches the idea stated by the OP that could be done easily and without loss of much time or resources by players who do not want to screw up dm carefully laid plans. and would require less than a minute of talking with the DM to set up by people who actually want to play what the DM set up but would like an in-character reason to do so.

My point is that testing is a horrible way to reach that conclusion. The caster should already know how the spell works and that it could send the target anywhere on the plane. Testing it may lead to false sense of security just as easily as to quick death.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

My point is that testing is a horrible way to reach that conclusion. The caster should already know how the spell works and that it could send the target anywhere on the plane. Testing it may lead to false sense of security just as easily as to quick death.

Well, some characters like to take risks, some don't and some casters will not revele to thr party the flaws in the plan .

[moonfly7]

Getting your plans destroyed by players is, in my opinion, proof you as a dm have succeeded in cultivating a good gaming environment. I believe that these kinda of things should be encouraged and rewarded. I say do it if there's a decent chance you won't die.

[Laserlight]

I generally avoid asking what spells my players have, unless I think they're overlooking something. "You're a Tempest cleric and there are twenty goblins in a clump, but you're bopping them with your mace. You know you have Thunderwave and Shatter, right?"

If I were a player, I'd tell the DM. "Hey, we're thinking of casting Banishment, but we don't want to spring a surprise on you and we also don't want to waste a spell slot if we know it's not going to work. You wanna think it over and email us?"

[Torpin]

The caster has no knowledge where the banished creature ended up. If you banish someone, you don't know if he arrived home, fell into the ocean or appeared in unguarded treasure room somewhere.

druid casts spider climb on me. i walk two feet up the wall, i tell him if anything goes wrong with the banishment stop concentrating. druid ends up in the middle of the ocean, stops concentrating i fall, i stop concentrating