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    Orc in the Playground
     
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    Default Effective spell level when using uncanny forethought

    I was looking at uncanny forethought, and noticed that it says "the level of the slot used must be equal to or greater than the level of the spell you intend to cast"

    Hypothetically, if I cast a level one spell using a level 4 spell slots, does it count as a level 1 spell or a level 4? My guess is a level 1, as it would effectively be granting heighten spell for free.

    The feat does not seem to address the issue of metamagic (ie can you cast spells with metamagic) - my gut says yes, but would fall under the full round action, even if the spell is one you have included in your spell mastery feat)

    While looking at all the permutations, I noticed the epic feat improved spell capacity, which says it allows "characters to gain spell slots above 9th level (which can be used to hold lower-level spells or spells whose level has been increased beyond 9th by the use of metamagic feats)"

    The same question would apply. Normally a wizard can not prepare a lower level spell in a higher spell slot, can he?

    Thanks in advance
    schreier

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Effective spell level when using uncanny forethought

    Quote Originally Posted by schreier View Post
    I was looking at uncanny forethought, and noticed that it says "the level of the slot used must be equal to or greater than the level of the spell you intend to cast"

    Hypothetically, if I cast a level one spell using a level 4 spell slots, does it count as a level 1 spell or a level 4?
    No, spell level is a property of the spell, not the slot.
    Quote Originally Posted by schreier View Post
    The feat does not seem to address the issue of metamagic (ie can you cast spells with metamagic) - my gut says yes, but would fall under the full round action, even if the spell is one you have included in your spell mastery feat)
    Probably 'no'? This seems like it's creating an ad-hoc rule while sticking with what's written is more straightforward.
    Quote Originally Posted by schreier View Post
    While looking at all the permutations, I noticed the epic feat improved spell capacity, which says it allows "characters to gain spell slots above 9th level (which can be used to hold lower-level spells or spells whose level has been increased beyond 9th by the use of metamagic feats)"

    The same question would apply. Normally a wizard can not prepare a lower level spell in a higher spell slot, can he?
    See here
    Quote Originally Posted by Spell Slots
    A spellcaster always has the option to fill a higher-level spell slot with a lower-level spell.
    ExFighter: Immunity to Wizard
    Stutter Caster: Eliminate all spell defenses (SR, Save, AC).
    The Clockwork Wizard: All spells in no time.
    Piercing Immunities: Uncounterable Counters.
    Planar Soldiers of Mystra: Invincibility from planar traits.
    A Core Only Fighter 20 that kills things

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    Default Re: Effective spell level when using uncanny forethought

    Thanks! That was easy

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    Default Re: Effective spell level when using uncanny forethought

    I've been quite interested in how Uncanny Forethought interracts with Metamagic feats.

    For a comp entry I was working on, I was trying to wrangle it so I could use Spellwarp Sniper and the feat Split Ray on a spellwraped spell my Wizard cast using Uncanny Forethought - but I have no idea if it would actually work or not.

    Saying that someone reading RAW differently than you is "home brewing or house ruling, but that's fine" doesn't make you right, it just makes you seem pompous.

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    Default Re: Effective spell level when using uncanny forethought

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    I've been quite interested in how Uncanny Forethought interracts with Metamagic feats.
    Quote Originally Posted by Uncanny Forethought
    ...you can ... cast any spell that you know...
    so the question is: Do spells you know modified by metamagic feat you know count as spells you know? I believe the answer is "yes" going by precedent for Versatile Spellcaster:
    Quote Originally Posted by Versatile Spellcaster
    You can ... cast a spell you know
    which is known to work with metamagic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    For a comp entry I was working on, I was trying to wrangle it so I could use Spellwarp Sniper and the feat Split Ray on a spellwraped spell my Wizard cast using Uncanny Forethought - but I have no idea if it would actually work or not.
    There's an order of operations issue. You declare the spell with metamagic, cast with uncanny forethought, then warp it. Since you can't apply Split Ray to an area spell, it doesn't work.

    There are however some ways to add metamagic at a later step.
    ExFighter: Immunity to Wizard
    Stutter Caster: Eliminate all spell defenses (SR, Save, AC).
    The Clockwork Wizard: All spells in no time.
    Piercing Immunities: Uncounterable Counters.
    Planar Soldiers of Mystra: Invincibility from planar traits.
    A Core Only Fighter 20 that kills things

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    Default Re: Effective spell level when using uncanny forethought

    That is encouraging - it seems that the spell known, even if one of the spells included in a character's spell mastery feat, would count as a different spell if modified with metamagic so would take a full round action to cast.

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    Default Re: Effective spell level when using uncanny forethought

    Quote Originally Posted by schreier View Post
    it seems that the spell known, even if one of the spells included in a character's spell mastery feat, would count as a different spell if modified with metamagic so would take a full round action to cast.
    At least as far as counterspells and stacking magical effects go, it's the same spell no matter which metamagic is applied.

    However, I checked the Rules Compendium---it says that spontaneous spells using metamagic cast by otherwise non-spontaneous casters use the increased casting time. Given that this rule is not explicitly overridden by Uncanny Forethought, you end up with full-round casting for metamagic spell mastery spells or 2 full-round actions for other metamagic spells.
    ExFighter: Immunity to Wizard
    Stutter Caster: Eliminate all spell defenses (SR, Save, AC).
    The Clockwork Wizard: All spells in no time.
    Piercing Immunities: Uncounterable Counters.
    Planar Soldiers of Mystra: Invincibility from planar traits.
    A Core Only Fighter 20 that kills things

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