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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: Easiest ( less difficult ) ways to achieve eternal life for a low level human?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maat Mons View Post
    And since Elans can't have children
    Er.... well, the racial description says

    “Thus, elans do not reproduce biologically, but rather psionically, through a mysterious psionic ritual known only to elans.”

    That could mean they are unable to reproduce at all, but could also mean that elans can’t biologically create more elans (because only the ritual does that; elan offspring might just be human). So in that sense, if elans can’t give birth to elans, “do not reproduce biologically.”

    Elans may even generally choose not to reproduce, because of wanting to leave all that meatspace stuff behind or because it would be too awful to be immortal but only ever have mortal children who mighn’t ever be elan-ified and so an elan parent outlives all their children until they simply decide “nope.”

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: Easiest ( less difficult ) ways to achieve eternal life for a low level human?

    Psychic Warriors? I was kind of imagining my Elan dystopia consisting exclusively of Psions, Ardents, and Wilders. Those are the classes that can potentially manifest Psychic Chirurgery. "I'll add one of my powers to your list if you add one of your powers to my list." If you're going to be a manifester and live forever, why hot have all the powers?

    For anyone wondering how you get Psychic Chirurgery without being a Telepath, the answer is that someone with Psychic Chirurgery uses Psychic Chirurgery to give you Psychic Chirurgery. ... There was probably a less redundant way of saying that.

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: Easiest ( less difficult ) ways to achieve eternal life for a low level human?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maat Mons View Post
    For anyone wondering how you get Psychic Chirurgery without being a Telepath, the answer is that someone with Psychic Chirurgery uses Psychic Chirurgery to give you Psychic Chirurgery. ... There was probably a less redundant way of saying that.
    How many psychics could a psychic chirurgeon Psychic Chirurgery if a psychic chirurgeon with Psychic Chirurgery psychically chirurgerized Psychic Chirurgery onto psychics by using Psychic Chirurgery?

    (Er.... because of the XP cost and all. *coughs*. Also, trying spelling that out ten times fast without using cut-and-paste!)

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Easiest ( less difficult ) ways to achieve eternal life for a low level human?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maat Mons View Post
    Psychic Warriors? I was kind of imagining my Elan dystopia consisting exclusively of Psions, Ardents, and Wilders. Those are the classes that can potentially manifest Psychic Chirurgery. "I'll add one of my powers to your list if you add one of your powers to my list." If you're going to be a manifester and live forever, why hot have all the powers?

    For anyone wondering how you get Psychic Chirurgery without being a Telepath, the answer is that someone with Psychic Chirurgery uses Psychic Chirurgery to give you Psychic Chirurgery. ... There was probably a less redundant way of saying that.
    It is a fairly caste-like system. Psi-Warriors and Psions can be trained and controlled in government run schools. Wilder fluff indicates they always develop naturally, so there's less control over who becomes one (though an elan Wilder is certainly possible, they prefer as few random elements as possible). As for Ardents, they tend to eschew religion and the elan power structure in my setting is partly dependant on their elans-first, humanity-second, everyone-else-last dogma.

    Anyway, Psychic Warriors tend to make up the military and peacekeeping sub-caste of the elan caste and Psions usually operate other parts of society. A religious Ardent Elan might be a high priest, but most elan religious officials are still Psions. There's just more of them. Also, I tend not to assume certain rules abuses* are being used unless I want to explore that concept specifically

    *That sounds more accusatory than it's supposed to. What I mean is, everyone having Psychic Chirurgery would be an interesting world to explore, but requires a little more meta than I wanted or was going for.
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  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: Easiest ( less difficult ) ways to achieve eternal life for a low level human?

    Err...

    that is extremely intersting but, gentlemen, my question...?

    In percentage, what chance would you give to an immortality seeker who dies while still clinging desperately to life, to rise as a Ghost?
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  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: Easiest ( less difficult ) ways to achieve eternal life for a low level human?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conradine View Post
    Err...

    that is extremely intersting but, gentlemen, my question...?

    In percentage, what chance would you give to an immortality seeker who dies while still clinging desperately to life, to rise as a Ghost?
    Ghost description that I found: Spirit of a Creature with Unfinished Business.

    So, if something tragic were to happen to the commoner, and just before dying the commoner set his sights on repaying the favor, he could rise as a ghost. The game gives no percentages, if you don't want to make it up yourself, maybe try to find something else.

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: Easiest ( less difficult ) ways to achieve eternal life for a low level human?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conradine View Post
    Err...

    that is extremely intersting but, gentlemen, my question...?

    In percentage, what chance would you give to an immortality seeker who dies while still clinging desperately to life, to rise as a Ghost?
    The problem is, there's no guide for it.

    Perhaps base it on level/total HD? So the stronger the life force of a person, the more likely their return? Let's say a 20th level character has an... 80% chance to return as a ghost (if they meet the other requirements. 80% to give a good chance but avoid the certainty of ghostly returns). And we'll make it a linear growth for the sake of ease. So a first level character has a 4% chance of returning from the dead as a ghost.

    Alternately, make it a will save. Probably a high DC, so a commoner might not even be able to make it at early levels (it should probably be higher than a 20, otherwise at least 1 in 20 commoners would rise as ghosts).
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  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: Easiest ( less difficult ) ways to achieve eternal life for a low level human?

    It'd be a houserule, but 2% per lvl of coming back IF an NPC has a really driving reason for sticking around? Greater for NPlotCs and PCs, of course.
    Last edited by MaxiDuRaritry; 2019-05-19 at 01:22 PM.

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    Default Re: Easiest ( less difficult ) ways to achieve eternal life for a low level human?

    I think that there is one book from Ravenloft that expands the ghost turning thing.
    It's charisma and HD based, if my memory serves my right.

  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: Easiest ( less difficult ) ways to achieve eternal life for a low level human?

    Circumstantial bonus for unfinished business and / or heinous actions?

    I read a Dragon Magazine issue 336. Article, Birth of the Dead. It exposed circumstances that can cause a character to spontaneously come back as undead.

    Morgh - unrepentant murder and shameful execution
    Spectre - wrath and violent death
    Drowned - executed by drowning ( walking the plank )
    Famine spirit - a life of starvation and basic needs, followed by an act of betrayal
    Effige - violent death by burning ( arson or stake )
    Ghost - unfinished business, must believe his death was caused by an hostile act
    Ghoul - cannibalism, literal or metaphoric ( loan sharks, corrupt tax collectors, greedy landlords )
    Ghast - being killed while committing cannibalism
    Vampire - suicide ( very rare, only in culture where suicide is shameful )
    Shadow - death by weakness ( poison, old age, illness ) perceived as weakness
    Wraith - sadistic murder
    Sword wraith - obsessive desire to keep fighting
    Wight - slow, agonizing death


    I wonder what could happen if someone manage to satisfy multiple prerequisites.


    I think that there is one book from Ravenloft that expands the ghost turning thing.
    It's charisma and HD based, if my memory serves my right
    Thanks man, I'll search that immediately.
    Last edited by Conradine; 2019-05-19 at 03:45 PM.
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  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: Easiest ( less difficult ) ways to achieve eternal life for a low level human?

    Being killed while committing cannibalism is easy enough. You just get a fellow immortality seeker, you each cut off a piece of the other and eat it, and then you both stab each other. That's two people killed while committing cannibalism.

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: Easiest ( less difficult ) ways to achieve eternal life for a low level human?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maat Mons View Post
    Being killed while committing cannibalism is easy enough. You just get a fellow immortality seeker, you each cut off a piece of the other and eat it, and then you both stab each other. That's two people killed while committing cannibalism.
    Well, you wouldn't even need to cut anything off if you've got...ahem...swallow whole...
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  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: Easiest ( less difficult ) ways to achieve eternal life for a low level human?

    I'll chip in with Wendigo (Fiend Folio, I think?), a curse that turns you into a fey (rules for fey lifespans are left deliberately ambiguous, but immortal is one of the common paradigms) as a punishment for cannibalism. For the purpose of this thread, that makes essentially a less risky ghoul, as you don't have to die for the transformation, and can just keep committing acts of cannibalism until the curse takes. And if you get killed before that happens, you've still got decent odds of turning into a ghoul/ghast.
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  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: Easiest ( less difficult ) ways to achieve eternal life for a low level human?

    Have you considered just Polymorph Any Object-ing yourself into a younger version of yourself (admittedly that's not low level but something to aim for)? You've got your younger self's stats and appearance, it's permanent duration and you can keep doing it over and over so you end up just layering levels of being X age so dispel magic has trouble removing it.

    Avoid anti-magic fields though.
    Last edited by Malphegor; 2019-05-20 at 03:23 AM.
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  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: Easiest ( less difficult ) ways to achieve eternal life for a low level human?

    In your opinion, general knowledge about undeads ( not necromantic spells but notions like "unrepentant serial killers sometimes rise as Morghs ) can be found in temples and monasteries of Pelor? After all, Pelor's followers specialize in destroying undeads.

    But , more important, is common knowledge freely given in a "standard" setting?
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  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Default Re: Easiest ( less difficult ) ways to achieve eternal life for a low level human?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malphegor View Post
    You've got your younger self's stats
    You mean the stats for an average human, which are all 10s?

    You're better off PAO'ing into something better than your old self, but with a human appearance. At least doppelgangers can change their appearance (admittedly, you'd need Assume Supernatural Ability for it), and they have somewhat better stats.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malphegor View Post
    it's permanent duration and you can keep doing it over and over so you end up just layering levels of being X age so dispel magic has trouble removing it.

    Avoid anti-magic fields though.
    Ravenloft: Legacy of the Blood has Devices, which are (Ex) "magic" items. You can craft Device scrolls so dispels and antimagic fields are no problem.
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  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Default Re: Easiest ( less difficult ) ways to achieve eternal life for a low level human?

    Steal Life can be cast on yourself until you drain enough for lowering your casting under the minimum for casting the spell at least.

  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Default Re: Easiest ( less difficult ) ways to achieve eternal life for a low level human?

    Id say the easiest way is:
    1- Be a lv 1 human paladin
    2- pazuzu, pazuzu, pazuzu.
    3- Use your wish
    4- ??????
    5- Profit

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