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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    JNAProductions's Avatar

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Quote Originally Posted by jguy View Post
    Burning Blade relic from Space Marine Codex. +2 str, -5 AP, 1 damage. Replaces power sword or master crafted power sword.
    Updated list:

    Spoiler: List
    Show
    AP-5
    Volcano Lance (Knight Castellan)
    Volcano Cannon (Shadowsword)
    High Power Doomsday Cannon (Doomsday Ark)
    Tachyon Arrow (Anrakyr the Traveler)
    Deathray [If Mephrit in half range] (Doomscythe)
    Heavy Gauss Cannon [If Mephrit in half range] (Heavy Destroyer)
    Fusion Blasters [With Advanced Targeting System] (XV25 Stealth Suits, XV8 Crisis Suits)
    Heavy Rail Rifle (XV88 Broadsides)
    Grav Flux Bombard (Hellforged Leviathans, Relic Leviathans)
    Lance Prism Cannon (Fire Prism)
    The Red Axe (Mars Power Axe Relic)
    Shokk Attack Gun (Big Meks)
    Bubblechukas [AP-1d6] (Mek Guns)
    Mega Choppa (Stompa)
    Killsaw [Proppa Killy Warlord, on the charge/being charge/Heroically Intervened only] (Warboss)
    Heat Lance (Scourges, Talos Pain Engine, Reaver Jetbikes)
    Mori Quake Cannon (Warlord Battle Titan)
    Reaver Volcanno Cannon (Reaver Battle Titan)
    Saturnyne Lascutter [Melee] (Warlord Battle Titan)
    Arioch Titan Power Claw (Warlord Battle Titan)
    Reaver Chainfist (Reaver Battle Titan)
    Reaver Power Fist (Reaver Battle Titan)
    Dreadhammer Siege Cannon (Relic Typhon Heavy Siege Tank)
    Laser volley cannon [Overcharge fire] (Deimos Pattern Vindicator Laser Destroyer)
    Ghost Razors (Lugft Huron)
    Monstrous Scything Talons (Hierophant Bio-Titan)
    Mega Klaw (Kustom Stompa)
    Heavy rail cannon (KX139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour, Tiger Shark AX-1-0, Manta Super-Heavy Dropship)
    D-Impaler (Cobra)
    Dire Pulsar (Phantom Titan)
    D-Bombard (Phantom Titan)
    Wraith Glaive (Phantom Titan)
    Blade Of Shadows (Be'Lakor)
    Acid Maw (Carnifex)
    Nemesis Quake Cannon (Warbringer)
    Twin Volcano Cannon (Hellforged Falchion)
    Burning Blade (Space Marine Power Sword Relic)

    AP-6
    Monstrous Rending Claws [On 6s to wound] (Patriarch, Broodlord)
    High Power Doomsday Cannon [If Mephrit in half range] (Doomscythe)
    Bubblechukas [AP-1d6] (Mek Guns)
    Thundercoil Harpoon (Knight Valiant)
    Belicosa Volcano Cannon (Warlord Battle Titan)
    Malignas Beam Cannon (Hellforged Contemptor)

    AP Infinity-Ignores Armor, but not Invulnerables
    Life Drain [Melee Attacks] (Culexus)
    I have a LOT of Homebrew!

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  2. - Top - End - #92
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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    The monstrous acid maw upgrade for carnifexes is also AP5. Also, Hive Tyrants also have access to the Monstrous Rending Claws.
    Last edited by Bobby Baratheon; 2019-05-25 at 04:41 PM.
    “Stupid entropy ruins everything.”
    -Jennifer Ouellette

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    Bobby, the Twist in Time
    Divine Rank: 4
    Deity of: Twisted Truth, Time
    Symbol: A pair of wings made of fossils
    Alignment: True Neutral
    Worshipers: Archaeologists, forgers
    Cleric Alignments: Any neutral
    Domains: Artifice, Creation, Knowledge, Time
    Favoured Weapon: Longsword

  3. - Top - End - #93
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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    I played in round 2 of our escalation league today, which was at 750 points. My opponent brought AdMech, which are always fun to see.

    Spoiler: His list
    Show

    It was a battalion for I forget which Forgeworld (not Graia, which ended up being important)
    Tech Priest Dominus
    Enginseer

    10x vanguard w/ plasma calivers
    10x vanguard w/ plasma calivers
    10x rangers w/ 1 arquebus

    5x kataphrons
    1x dunecrawler
    5(or 6)x infiltrators


    Spoiler: My list
    Show

    Jormungandr Battalion
    Hive Tyrant w/ 2x devourers and the Maw Claws of Thyrax (relic monstrous rending claws)
    Tyranid Prime w/ boneswords, adrenal glands and a deathspitter[W]

    Rippers x3
    Tyranid Warriors x3 w/ boneswords, deathspitters and a venom cannon
    Tyranid Warriors x3 w/ boneswords, deathspitters and a venom cannon

    Carnifexes x2 w/ 2x scything talons and spore cysts
    Carnifex w/ 4x devourers, enhanced senses and spore cysts


    Like me, he was a player from last edition getting into 8th. It seemed like he was a little fuzzy on some of the rules (both in general and for AdMech), so I had to correct him on a few points but overall it was a fun, friendly game (if not a close one).

    The mission was (I think) a custom one from the TO with five objectives whose value shifts every turn (becoming active), with the player controlling an objective at the end of the battle round getting 1 vp (or two, if the objective was 'active' that turn). First Blood, Linebreaker and Slay the Warlord were also available, and the game technically would continue even if a player was tabled. We played on a 4x4 board with some ruins in three of the corners and craters in the center.

    Spoiler: The game
    Show
    He went first and shot one of the melee carnifexes off the board. I had hid my hive tyrant in a building out of sight (thankfully). He rolled well, but the -1 to hit and autocover from Jormungandr soaked up a lot of firepower. He also definitely wasted his small arms fire on the carnifex. My turn went pretty poorly, with most of my shooting missing and me only killing a few Skitarii. At the end of the round he controlled 2 objectives to my three (but he had First Blood), so we were tied at 3-3.

    Turn two he poured almost all his firepower into the carnifexes and flopped pretty hard thanks to the -1 to hit and autocover. He took two wounds off the shooty carnifex and wounded one warrior, but other than that my guys were able to keep advancing. The warriors whittled down the vanguard to a squad of three and a squad of five (also killing a kataphron with the venom cannon), while the Hive Tyrant shot the squad of three down to one guy. The shooty fex, thanks to the pathogenic slime stratagem that adds +1 damage, managed to kill three kataphrons. The hive tyrant got off onslaught, allowing the melee fex to pull off a charge and wipe the squad of five vanguard. I then used Overrun to position it 1.1" away from the Dunecrawler. At the end of this turn, we each controlled two objectives (but I controlled the active one), leaving the score at 6-5.

    On turn three he put virtually all of his shooting into the meleefex and charged his last kataphron, his tech priest and his enginseer into it, but he failed to kill it, only getting it down to 3 wounds. He also killed the injured warrior, causing me to lose one to unit coherency thanks to stupid placement. His infiltrators (previously hiding behind buildings) multi-charged my shooty fex and a squad of warriors, losing a guy to overwatch (32 shots will do that) before getting the dakkafex down to 1 wound and failing to hurt the warriors. The meleefex killed the tech priest dominus (his warlord) fighting back, and then I used the fight again strategem to kill the last kataphron and get the enginseer down to 1 wound. The warriors managed to kill two infiltrators, while the dakkafex didn't do anything thanks to not having a melee weapon. On my turn, I charged the Tyranid Prime and the lone unengaged warrior into the infiltrators while double teaming the dunecrawler with the Hive Tyrant (onslaught once again paying off) and the meleefex. The charging Hive Tyrant solo'd the dunecrawler thanks to rolling two six's to wound and max damage on his other two attacks, but he then used the stratagem to explode it, killing his own enginseer, dropping the meleefex to one wound and shaving off one wound from the hive tyrant. My rippers also came down to claim an objective this turn, putting me in control of three total to his one (which was the active one for that round), bringing the score to 10-7.

    On turn four his only units left were the ranger unit with the arquebus (which had done nothing the entire game). Since both my carnifexes were at one health, he tried to kill both of them before conceding. He did kill one with massed galvanic rifle fire, but the arquebus failed to scratch the other one. At this point he conceded, since I could control four objectives at the end of the turn and would have probably ended the game with linebreaker. He was probably also going to get tabled on my turn, since I had all of my shooty units except two warriors still on the battlefield.


    Observations:
    -For 92 points, 2x scything talon carnifexes with spore cysts are kind of nasty. He spent probably 90% of his shooting trying to kill those two carnifexes, and it took him most of the game to finish off the second one. The autocover was also very nice, making the carnifexes virtually invulnerable to small arms fire and giving them a shot at saving wounds from higher AP weapons. I previously was more in the camp of 4x devourer carnifexes w/ acid maws as the most generally useful carnifex, but I can see the appeal of 92 point battering rams that take a disproportionate amount of shooting to take down.
    -He literally didn't once target the hive tyrant with shooting attacks. I did get catalyst on it every turn, but I thought he would prioritize over the carnifexes. I guess the distraction carnifex effect is real?
    -The warriors performed pretty well at this level - they comfortably out-meleed the infiltrators while also killing a bunch of skitarii grunts with their deathspitters. The venom cannons were also kind of helpful for picking off the Kataphrons. I can see why they don't do as well at higher point levels, but at 750 two squads of three for ~180 points (and the obligatory prime for ~80 points) seems like a bargain. They also benefit quite a bit from the autocover, since their natural 4+ save is pretty mediocre.
    -I think the acid maw is a probably better investment for the dakkafex than enhanced senses, considering the two are mutually exclusive. Enhanced senses adds 4 hits on average for the double devourers 'fex (24*.5 vs 24*.667), which is nice but not really a gamechanger. Acid maw, on the other hand, gives it a legitimate melee weapon (S6 AP5 D3 damage is kind of nasty for a ten point weapon) and much more flexibility on the battlefield; the devourer's short range means they're going to be close to the enemy anyway. The enhanced senses dakkafex was pretty helpless against the infiltrators, while I think a dakkafex with the acid maw would have easily killed two of them. It's not quite as good as the double scything claws, but the flexibility upgrade is real.
    -I do think the game would have gone very differently with better threat recognition on his part. The melee carnifexes, while efficient for their cost, are vulnerable to being tarpitted (they hit on 4+'s except when they charge) and he definitely squandered his shooting on them instead of killing my guys on the objectives.

    The next round is 1000 points, and I kind of want to try this out:
    Spoiler: 1000 point Carnifest
    Show

    Jormungandr Battalion
    Old One Eye
    Tyranid Prime (W) w/ boneswords, flesh hooks, deathspitter and adrenal glands

    Rippers x3
    Rippers x3
    Tyranid Warriors x5 w/ deathspitters, boneswords, adrenal glands and a venom cannon

    Carnifexes x3 w/ spore cysts and 2x scything talons
    Carnifexes x2 w/ 4x devourers, monstrous acid maw and spore cysts


    I look forward to abusing Old One Eye's status as a regenerating character with 9 wounds while he and the boys roll over stuff. I do quite like the Hive Tyrant, but it'll be fun to try a game without him. I can always spring out triple tyrants + carnifexes the round after at 1250. Not having psychic powers will kind of suck, though.
    “Stupid entropy ruins everything.”
    -Jennifer Ouellette

    My divine portfolio (cred goes to Jormengand):
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    Bobby, the Twist in Time
    Divine Rank: 4
    Deity of: Twisted Truth, Time
    Symbol: A pair of wings made of fossils
    Alignment: True Neutral
    Worshipers: Archaeologists, forgers
    Cleric Alignments: Any neutral
    Domains: Artifice, Creation, Knowledge, Time
    Favoured Weapon: Longsword

  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    BAO (n=150) happened:

    Spoiler: 16. GSC
    Show
    Rusted Claw, Battalion
    (FC) Acolyte Iconward; Icon of the Cult Ascendent
    (W) Patriarch; Shadow Stalker
    (BC) Primus; Bonesword, Alien Majesty

    Acolyte Hybrids (x15); x4 Heavy Rock Saws
    Acolyte Hybrids (x15); x4 Heavy Rock Saws
    Neophyte Hybrids (x10); Webbers (x2), Web Pistol

    Aberrants (x10); Power Picks (x8)
    Clamavus
    Kelermorph
    Nexos

    Deliverance Broodsurge
    Field Commander
    Broodcoven
    Gransire's Gift (x2)

    Genestealer Cults, Battalion
    (BC) Magus; Inscrutable Cunning <Four Armed Emperor>
    Patriarch; Familiar, Amulet of the Voidwyrm <Rusted Claw>

    Brood Brothers Infantry (x10)
    Brood Brothers Infantry (x10)
    Brood Brothers Infantry (x10)

    Sanctus; Silencer Sniper Rifle, The Gift From Beyond <Four Armed Emperor>

    Brood Brothers Heavy Weapons; Mortars (x3)
    Brood Brothers Heavy Weapons; Mortars (x3)

    Brood Brothers, Air Wing
    Vulture Gunship (FW); Heavy Bolter, Twin Punisher Cannon
    Vulture Gunship (FW); Heavy Bolter, Twin Punisher Cannon
    Vulture Gunship (FW); Heavy Bolter, Twin Punisher Cannon

    Triple Vultures will definitely do the thing. It's also got a Deliverance Broodsurge with the four Warlord Traits, and it also brought the Rock Saws. Nice list.


    Spoiler: 15. Adeptus Custodes
    Show
    Adeptus Custodes, Spearhead
    Captain-General Trajann Valoris

    (W) Vexillus Praetor; Misericordia, Storm Shield, Vexilla Magnifica, Superior Creation

    Caladius Grav-Tank (FW); Twin Illiastus Accelerator Cannon, Twin Lastrum Bolt Cannon
    Caladius Grav-Tank (FW); Twin Illiastus Accelerator Cannon, Twin Lastrum Bolt Cannon
    Caladius Grav-Tank (FW); Twin Illiastus Accelerator Cannon, Twin Lastrum Bolt Cannon

    Adeptus Custodes, Outrider
    Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike; Hurricane Bolter, Misericordia, Auric Aquilas

    Vertus Praetors (x3); Hurricane Bolters
    Vertus Praetors (x3); Hurricane Bolters
    Vertus Praetors (x3); Hurricane Bolters

    Reinforcements; 85 Points

    Pure Custodes? In my Horde 40K? Wait...Hold up.
    *Looks up rules for Caladius*
    Oh. Okay. Be a horde, or be able to deal with hordes. This army has a lot of shots per model and that's how it did so well. Got it. Chuck in the sneaky Assassin and you're good to go.


    Spoiler: 14. Tzeentch (Thousand Sons)
    Show
    Tzeentch Daemons, Battalion
    Kairos Fateweaver
    (W) Lord of Change; Baleful Sword, Bolt of Change, Boon of Change, Gaze of Fate, Incorporeal Form, The Impossible Robe
    Changecaster

    Pink Horrors (x24); Icon, Instrument
    Brimstone Horrors (x10)
    Brimstone Horrors (x10)

    Thousand Sons, Battalion
    Ahriman
    Daemon Prince of Tzeentch with Wings; Malefic Talons (x2)

    Tzaangors (x24); Blades, Brayhorn, Twistbray
    Tzaangors (x10)
    Tzaangors (x10)

    Thousand Sons, Super Heavy Auxiliary
    Magnus the Red

    Reinforcements; 48 Points

    Is 24 a special number for some reason? Dude's rocking x3 Greater Daemons (including Magnus), and that's how you have to do it if you're going to run any at all. Not having Ahriman on Disc (i.e; Being a <Daemon>) seems extremely weird to me. But hey, top 10% at BAO so I'll be quiet. I like the 7th Ed. vibes of the Magnus & Fatey Power Hour. I'm not even remotely a fan of The Impossible Robe.


    Spoiler: 13. Tyranids
    Show
    Kraken, Battalion
    (W) Hive Tyrant with Wings; Devourers with Brainleech Worms (x4), Chameleonic Mutation, Catalyst, Psychic Scream
    Old One Eye

    Genestealers (x18); Scything Talons (x18), Acid Maws (x3)
    Genestealers (x18); Scything Talons (x18), Acid Maws (x3)
    Hormagaunts (x28)

    Venomthropes (x3)

    Kraken, Battalion
    Hive Tyrant with Wings; Devourers with Brainleech Worms (x4), Paroxysm, The Horror
    The Swarmlord; Catalyst, Onslaught

    Termagants (x12)
    Ripper Swarms (x3)
    Ripper Swarms (x3)

    Hive Guard (x6); Impaler Cannons

    Kronos
    Biovore

    Impaler Cannons do the thing. The Biovore just hangs out of line of sight and drops The Deepest Shadow when neccessary. Shooting Kraken Genestealers up the board to win. And then let's have the Hive Tyrants chill out in Reserve so that they don't die immedately. Solid mono-Codex list - and no Forge World!


    Spoiler: 12. Ultramarines
    Show
    Ultramarines, Battalion
    (FC) Captain with Jump Pack; Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield, Warden of Ultramar
    Chief Librarian Tigurius

    Intercessors (x5); Bolt Rifles, AGL, Chainsword
    Intercessors (x5); Bolt Rifles, AGL, Chainsword
    Intercessors (x5); Bolt Rifles, AGL, Chainsword

    Redemptor Dreadnought; Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Storm Bolters (x2)
    Redemptor Dreadnought; Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Storm Bolters (x2)
    Relic Contemptor Dreadnought (FW); Twin Lascannons (x2)
    Relic Contemptor Dreadnought (FW); Twin Lascannons (x2)

    Relic Leviathan Dreadnought; Heavy Flamers (x2), Hunter-Killer Missiles (x3), Storm Cannon Arrays (x2)
    Thunderfire Cannon; Flamer, Plasma Cutter

    Victrix Guard
    Field Commander

    Ultramarines, SHAD
    Roboute Guilliman

    My guess is the Thunderfire Gunner is the Warlord as has Storm of Fire, maybe? Or maybe Guilliman is the Warlord for +3 CPs? I dunno. Anyway, this list has Forge World in it so I dislike it on principle. Although, spending two CPs just to get a Warden is a bit much. So maybe Guilliman is the Warlord? ...I'm guessing Relic is Shield Eternal. Whatever. It's a Space Marine list. Guilliman & Forge World Dreadnoughts. Welcome to a **** Codex.


    Spoiler: 11. GSC
    Show
    Four Armed Emperor, Battalion
    Acolyte Iconward
    (BC) Primus

    Acolyte Hybrids (x15); Heavy Rock Saws (x5)
    Brood Brothers Infantry (x10)
    Brood Brothers Infantry (x10)

    Clamavus
    Kelermorph
    Nexos
    Sanctus

    Deliverance Broodsurge
    Broodcoven

    Four Armed Emperor, Battalion
    (BC) Magus; Familiar
    (W) Patriarch; Familiar

    Brood Brothers Infantry
    Brood Brothers Infantry
    Brood Brothers Infantry

    Aberrants (x10); Power Picks (x8)
    Aberrants (x10); Power Picks (x8)
    Biophagus

    Annointed Throng

    Brood Brothers, Battalion
    Company Commander
    Company Commander

    Infantry Squad
    Infantry Squad
    Infantry Squad

    Vulture Gunship (FW); Heavy Bolter, Twin Punisher Cannon
    Vulture Gunship (FW); Heavy Bolter, Twin Punisher Cannon

    Hooray for Guard Armies with a different heads!


    Spoiler: 10. Chaos (Daemons)
    Show
    Thousand Sons, Supreme Command
    Ahriman on Disc of Tzeentch
    Daemon Prince of Tzeentch with Wings; Malefic Talons (x2)
    (W) Daemon Prince of Tzeentch with Wings; Malefic Talons (x2), High Magister, Helm of the Third Eye
    Sorcerer in Terminator Armour; Inferno Combi-Bolter, Force Sword, Familiar

    Chaos Daemons, Battalion
    Fluxmaster; Flickering Flames, Gaze of Fate
    Daemon Prince of Chaos with Wings; Daemonic Axe, Skullreaver, <Khorne>

    Pink Horrors (x27)
    Brimstone Horrors (x10)
    Nurglings (x3)

    Nurgle Daemons, Battalion
    Poxbringer; Miasma of Pestilence
    Sloppity Bilepiper

    Plaguebearers (x30); Icon
    Plaguebearers (x30); Icon
    Nurglings (x3)

    Nothing I see here is surprising. This is exactly what the average Chaos list looks like these days.


    Spoiler: 9. Astra Militarum
    Show
    Catachan, Battalion
    Colonel 'Iron Hand' Straken
    Company Commander

    Infantry Squad
    Infantry Squad
    Infantry Squad

    Chimera; Heavy Flamers (x2)
    Chimera; Heavy Flamers (x2)
    Chimera; Heavy Flamers (x2)

    Emperor's Blade Assault Company

    Catachan, Battalion
    Tank Commander; Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Heavy Stubber, Plasma Cannons (x2)
    Tank Commander; Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Plasma Cannons (x2)

    Infantry Squad
    Infantry Squad
    Infantry Squad

    Emperor's Fist Tank Company

    Catachan, Battalion
    Tank Commander; Battle Cannon, Lascannon, Plasma Cannons (x2)
    Company Commander

    Infantry Squad
    Infantry Squad
    Infantry Squad

    Bullgryns (x9); Bullgryn Mauls, Brute Shields (x4), Slabshields (x5)
    Astropath
    Ministorum Priest

    Wyvern; Heavy Bolter
    Basilisk; Heavy Bolter

    Emperor's Wrath Artillery Company

    ...And this list, boys and girls, is how you make friends.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2019-05-26 at 10:29 PM.
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  5. - Top - End - #95
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Cheesegear's Avatar

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    BAO Top 8:

    Spoiler: 8. Tyranids (GSC)
    Show
    Four Armed Emperor, Battalion
    Acolyte Iconward
    Patriarch; Familiar

    Acolyte Hybrids (x15); Heavy Rock Saws (x4)
    Acolyte Hybrids (x15); Heavy Rock Saws (x4)
    Acolyte Hybrids (x20); Hand Flamers (x20)

    Clamavus
    Nexos
    Sanctus; Silencer Sniper Rifle

    Deliverance Broodsurge

    Four Armed Emperor, Battalion
    Patriarch; Familiar
    Primus; Bonesword

    Brood Brothers Infantry (x20)
    Brood Brothers Infantry (x20)
    Brood Brothers Infantry (x20)
    Brood Brothers Infantry (x20)
    Brood Brothers Infantry (x10) Ow my brain.

    Aberrants (x10); Power Picks (x8)

    Annointed Throng

    Tyranids, Battalion (Kraken?)
    Broodlord
    Broodlord

    Termagants (x10)
    Termagants (x10)
    Termagants (x10)

    Daemon Princes get the shaft. Meanwhile, Broodlords and Patriarchs definitely aren't the same thing.


    Spoiler: 7. Chaos Space Marines
    Show
    The Purge, Vanguard
    Lord Discordant; Autocannon, Techno-Virus Injector, <Nurgle>
    Lord Discordant; Autocannon, Techno-Virus Injector, <Nurgle>

    Hellforged Contemptor Dreadnought (FW); Butcher Cannons (x2), Havoc Launcher, <Nurgle>
    Hellforged Contemptor Dreadnought (FW); Butcher Cannons (x2), Havoc Launcher, <Nurgle>
    Hellforged Contemptor Dreadnought (FW); Butcher Cannons (x2), Havoc Launcher, <Nurgle>

    The Purge, Spearhead
    Lord Discordant; Autocannon, Techno-Virus Injector, <Nurgle>

    Hellforged Deredeo Dreadnought (FW); Butcher Cannon Array, Greater Havoc Launcher, Twin Heavy Bolter, <Nurgle>
    Hellforged Deredeo Dreadnought (FW); Butcher Cannon Array, Greater Havoc Launcher, Twin Heavy Bolter, <Nurgle>
    Hellforged Deredeo Dreadnought (FW); Butcher Cannon Array, Greater Havoc Launcher, Twin Heavy Bolter, <Nurgle>

    The Purge, Air Wing
    Heldrake; Baleflamer, <Nurgle>
    Heldrake; Baleflamer, <Nurgle>
    Heldrake; Baleflamer, <Nurgle>

    ...My god.


    Spoiler: 6. Imperium (Custodes)
    Show
    Graia, Battalion
    Tech-Priest Enginseer; Power Axe
    Tech-Priest Enginseer; Power Axe

    Skitarii Rangers (x5)
    Skitarii Rangers (x5)
    Skitarii Rangers (x5)

    Custodes, Outrider
    Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike; Hurricane Bolter

    Aquilon Custodians (x5; FW); Lastrum Storm Bolters, Solarite Power Gauntlets

    Vertus Praetors (x5); Hurricane Bolters
    Vertus Praetors (x5); Hurricane Bolters
    Vertus Praetors (x3); Hurricane Bolters


    Spoiler: 5. Imperium (Knights)
    Show
    Hawkshroud, Super-Heavies
    Knight Gallant; Heavy Stubber, Reaper Chainsword, Thunderstrike Gauntlet
    (C) Knight Warden; Avenger Gatling Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Heavy Stubber, Reaper Chainsword, Endless Fury
    (W) Knight Valiant; Shieldbreaker Missiles (x2), Twin Siegebreaker Cannons (x2), Traitor's Pyre

    Exalted Court
    Heirlooms of the Household

    Battalion, Cadian
    Primaris Psyker; Force Stave, Nightshroud, Psychic Maelstrom
    Primaris Psyker; Force Stave, Psychic Barrier, Terrifying Visions

    Infantry Squad
    Infantry Squad
    Infantry Squad

    Cadian, Battalion
    Company Commander
    Company Commander

    Infantry Squad; Mortar
    Infantry Squad; Mortar
    Infantry Squad; Mortar

    Heavy Weapons Squad; Mortars (x3)
    Wyverns (x2); Heavy Bolters (x2)

    Emperor's Wrath Artillery Company

    Big yellow Knights, go! Yeah. Castellan gets nerfed. Just switch to Valiant. Not much changes.


    Spoiler: 4. T'au
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    T'au, Outrider
    Cadre Fireblade; Markerlight
    +Shield Drones (x2)

    (W) Commander in Enforcer Armour; Cyclic Ion Blasters (x3), ATS
    +Shield Drones (x2)

    Pathfinders (x5); Markerlights (x5) + Pulse Drone + Grav Drone + Recon Drone + Shield Drones (x2)
    Pathfinders (x5); Markerlights (x5) + Pulse Drone + Grav Drone + Recon Drone + Shield Drones (x2)
    Shield Drones (x6)
    Shield Drones (x5)
    Shield Drones (x5)

    T'au, Battalion
    Cadre Fireblade; Markerlight
    +Shield Drones (x2)

    Commander Shadowsun
    +Shield Drones (x2)
    +Command-link Drone

    Ethereal; Honour Blade
    +Shield Drones (x2)

    Strike Team (x5) + Shield Drones (x2)
    Strike Team (x5) + Shield Drones (x2)
    Strike Team (x5) + Shield Drones (x2)

    T'au, Vanguard
    Commander in Enforcer Armour; Cyclic Ion Blasters (x3), ATS
    +Shield Drones (x2)

    Darkstrider

    Riptide; Heavy Burst Cannon, SMS (x2), ATS, VT
    Riptide; Heavy Burst Cannon, SMS (x2), ATS, VT
    Riptide; Heavy Burst Cannon, SMS (x2), ATS, VT

    38 Shield Drones with 15 ObSec models total. Welcome to ITC, and what makes T'au good when you don't actually play by the rules.


    Spoiler: 3. Imperium (Custodes)
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    Catachan, Battalion
    (W) Company Commander; Grand Strategist
    Company Commander; Kurov's Aquila

    Infantry Squad; Mortar
    Infantry Squad; Mortar
    Infantry Squad; Mortar

    Wyvern; Heavy Bolter
    Basilisk; Heavy Bolter

    Emperor's Wrath Artillery Company

    Custodes, Spearhead
    Captain-General Trajann Valoris

    Vexilla; Castellan Axe, Vexilla Magnifica
    Aquilon Custodians (x3; FW); Infernus Fire Pikes (x3), Misericordias (x3)

    Caladius Grav-Tank (FW); Twin Illiastus Accelerator Cannon, Twin Lastrum Bolt Cannon
    Caladius Grav-Tank (FW); Twin Illiastus Accelerator Cannon, Twin Lastrum Bolt Cannon
    Telemon Heavy Dreadnought (FW)

    Graia, Battalion
    Tech-Preist Enginseer
    Tech-Preist Enginseer

    Skitarii Rangers (x5); Transuranic Arquebus, Omnispex
    Skitarii Rangers (x5); Transuranic Arquebus, Omnispex
    Skitarii Rangers (x5); Transuranic Arquebus, Omnispex

    Reinforcements - 85 Points

    This list is sick. Unfortunately, it's got Forge World in it so I have to be sad.


    Spoiler: 2. Craftworlds
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    Craftworlds, Battalion
    (W) Farseer Skyrunner; Singing Spear, Twin Shuriken Catapult <Biel-Tan>
    Warlock Skyrunner; Singing Spear, Twin Shuriken Catapult <Biel-Tan>

    Rangers (x5) <Alaitoc>
    Rangers (x5) <Alaitoc>
    Rangers (x5) <Alaitoc>

    Windriders (x9); Scatter Lasers (x9) <Biel-Tan>

    Alaitoc, Battalion
    (FC) Farseer Skyrunner; Singing Spear, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Wild Rider

    Warlock Skyrunner Conclave (x9); Singing Spears (x9), Twin Shuriken Catapults (x9)

    Rangers (x5)
    Rangers (x5)
    Rangers (x5)

    Windrider Host

    Alaitoc, Air Wing
    Crimson Hunter Exarch; Starcannons (x2)
    Crimson Hunter Exarch; Starcannons (x2)
    Crimson Hunter Exarch; Starcannons (x2)

    Well, if Ynnari Shinging Spears are gonna be dead, just switch to Warlocks.




    Undefeated

    Spoiler: 1. Chaos (Daemons)
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    Thousand Sons, Supreme Command
    Ahriman
    Daemon Prince of Tzeentch with Wings; Malefic Talons (x2), High Magister
    Daemon Prince of Tzeentch with Wings; Malefic Talons (x2), Warptime
    Sorcerer in Terminator Armour; Inferno Combi-Bolter, Force Sword, Familiar

    Hellforged Contemptor Dreadnought (FW); C-Beam Cannons (x2)

    Nurgle Daemons, Battalion
    Poxbringer
    Sloppity Bilepiper

    Plaguebearers (x30); Icon, Instrument
    Plaguebearers (x30); Icon, Instrument
    Nurglings (x3)

    Chaos Daemons, Battalion
    Changecaster
    Daemon Prince of Chaos with Wings; Daemonic Axe, <Khorne>

    Bloodletters (x15); Icon, Instrument
    Pink Horrors (x25)
    Brimstone Horrors (x10)

    Sure. I guess it says something about the game being pretty close to balanced when there can be this many various Factions in the Top 10%, and, that rather than all the same list being Top 3, a list, that's nearly identical to this one, didn't place Top 8. So, yeah. I think ITC has pretty much made a game in which every Faction can participate. But, the problem is that they all participate in the exact same way. Which IMO makes the ITC really, really boring. Because while Faction selection might be diverse, the list archetypes are all basically the same.


    I think the thing that disappoints me the most about this GT is the amount of Forge World seen at the top tables - lots of people effectively being priced out of the meta.
    ...That, or Forge World East is making a killing and FW is running themselves into the ground.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    BAO Top 8:

    I think the thing that disappoints me the most about this GT is the amount of Forge World seen at the top tables - lots of people effectively being priced out of the meta.
    ...That, or Forge World East is making a killing and FW is running themselves into the ground.
    ChinaForge cant stop, wont stop. FW models being stronger just kills independent retailers like myself, since we are priced out of the 'where do I buy stuff' meta. Fortunately, good recasters are hard to find, for obvious reasons.

    Also, that craftworlds list is great. I always said Rangers were good (not that I think anyone disagreed) and Crimson Hunters can put the hurt when it counts. Hemlocks are great, but that short range is ugh.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    With the prevalence of Forge World stuff, do we think this is because the Forge World game designs are ‘better’ (by which I mean, they appear because they add things which were missing to the game which could/should be in core codexes), or ‘worse’ (not as balanced as core 40k stuff, so more likely to be overpowered, due to lower quality rules design). I think Cheesegear’s view is clear, what do others think? Is there anything that the core 40k designers can learn (either what to do or what not to do) from the forge world stuff?
    Last edited by Avaris; 2019-05-27 at 05:56 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Have to admit, I'm mildly surprised at how many of the top 16 are mono-codex lists. I've spent so long adjusting to the necessity of needing allies that it's a bit strange to be seeing something that was last fashionable at the start of 6th edition.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Quote Originally Posted by Avaris View Post
    With the prevalence of Forge World stuff, do we think this is because the Forge World game designs are ‘better’ (by which I mean, they appear because they add things which were missing to the game which could/should be in core codexes), or ‘worse’ (not as balanced as core 40k stuff, so more likely to be overpowered, due to lower quality rules design). I think Cheesegear’s view is clear, what do others think? Is there anything that the core 40k designers can learn from the forge world stuff?
    GW rolls a 2D6 for balance, Forgeworld rolls a D12. If you choose only the highest results, you'll see a lot more Forgeworld, but they're not any better overall.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Quote Originally Posted by Avaris View Post
    With the prevalence of Forge World stuff, do we think this is because the Forge World game designs are ‘better’ (by which I mean, they appear because they add things which were missing to the game which could/should be in core codexes), or ‘worse’ (not as balanced as core 40k stuff, so more likely to be overpowered, due to lower quality rules design).
    Both.
    If Forge World models could be found in the Codex, there'd be no problem.
    If Forge World models were worse than models found in the Codex, then people wouldn't take them.

    You're not seeing anyone taking bad FW models, are you?

    The Forge World units are not found in the Codex, and they are better than things found in the Codex.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    Have to admit, I'm mildly surprised at how many of the top 16 are mono-codex lists.
    If your Codex has good Troops, and good HQs, you don't really need Allies, do you?
    If you're playing ITC, the scope of 'what you need' becomes significantly smaller.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2019-05-27 at 09:56 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    First look at plastic Sisters of Battle Retributors. They look..... like the old Retributors, weirdly enough. Less emphasis on the boobplate, but there's still an implication of femininity going on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    If your Codex has good Troops, and good HQs....
    Considering what has come before, this in itself is a small miracle in many places.
    Last edited by Wraith; 2019-05-27 at 11:43 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Both.
    If Forge World models could be found in the Codex, there'd be no problem.
    If Forge World models were worse than models found in the Codex, then people wouldn't take them.

    You're not seeing anyone taking bad FW models, are you?

    The Forge World units are not found in the Codex, and they are better than things found in the Codex.
    I wouldn't have bothered converting my Chaplain Dreads (very easy) or Leman Russ Annihilators if I didn't have a use for them, yeah.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    First look at plastic Sisters of Battle Retributors. They look..... like the old Retributors, weirdly enough. Less emphasis on the boobplate, but there's still an implication of femininity going on.
    The look near exactly like the old ones, just in plastic. Which I guess I'm fine with. Also, the old Rets didn't really emphasis boobplate all that much.

    Actually looking at the old metal models it really was only the Seraphim and the Sergeants who had any real emphasis on it and that primarily because they had their arms really sticking out.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
    The look near exactly like the old ones, just in plastic. Which I guess I'm fine with.
    Lets hope them being plastic makes them cheaper. Still, considering what someone above said above GW rolling 2d6 for balance, the beta codex was them rolling a 1 and the other dice rolling under the table. Look at all the recent diversity in lists all over tournaments, not a single feature by Sisters, not even as token allies. Depressing.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    Lets hope them being plastic makes them cheaper. Still, considering what someone above said above GW rolling 2d6 for balance, the beta codex was them rolling a 1 and the other dice rolling under the table. Look at all the recent diversity in lists all over tournaments, not a single feature by Sisters, not even as token allies. Depressing.
    I was never really expecting them to be included, as they exist in this weird halfway point between Guard and Marines, sorta like Ad Mech. Ad Mech show up because they're new and have unique units that do weird stuff.

    Sisters are expensive and have like...two unique things, one of which is Celestine who can just get dumped into any old Imperium list with little effort. Sister's need more than Bolters to get them out of their spot.

    A really good Stratagem could pull it off.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
    I was never really expecting them to be included, as they exist in this weird halfway point between Guard and Marines, sorta like Ad Mech. Ad Mech show up because they're new and have unique units that do weird stuff.

    Sisters are expensive and have like...two unique things, one of which is Celestine who can just get dumped into any old Imperium list with little effort. Sister's need more than Bolters to get them out of their spot.

    A really good Stratagem could pull it off.
    Realistically during beta feedback I just asked them for three things: 1. to get rid of either two of the Faith Point cost (needing to rework strats, relics and a sub-faction), the roll (needing to rework ebon chalice and imagifiers) or the 1/round attempt limit; 2. to add the FW Repressor to the Codex, and 3. for Sister Superiors to get access to the same Wargear as the rest of their squad. Sadly I dont think we're getting either, but oh well.

    You dont even see Celestine anymore, or at least I havent. When it was just the index fine, but after a 'beta' codex it shouldnt be this sad

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
    I was never really expecting them to be included, as they exist in this weird halfway point between Guard and Marines, sorta like Ad Mech. Ad Mech show up because they're new and have unique units that do weird stuff.
    Graia is coming up in the ITC - as shown in the lists above - because Tech-Priest Enginseers got a buff, so that even if you include the Power Axe - which you have to - they're still dirt cheap.

    Tech-Priest Enginseer; Power Axe - 35 Points
    Tech-Priest Enginseer; Power Axe - 35 Points

    Skitarii Rangers (x5) - 35 Points
    Skitarii Rangers (x5) - 35 Points
    Skitarii Rangers (x5) - 35 Points

    Total: 175 Points

    Meanwhile, the 32, are 180.

    But you only have half the models!? ...That's okay, because the ITC meta doesn't really play that game. If you can hold two Objectives in your own DZ, you're doing fine. If your opponent isn't ever going to enter your DZ except with non-ObSec units, what have you got to worry about? This is why T'au can stack the front of their DZ with Shield Drones and have a total of 15 models holding two Objectives, and still win games - 'cause ITC. If the rest of your army can, well, hold the line, 15 Troops models is perfectly fine.

    Skitter Rangers (Graia) have a 4+ Save, with 6+ Invulnerable, and 6+ Ignore (final) Wounds. Their guns have 30" range with S4, and the option for AP-1. They do just fine in the ITC meta. Not to mention, Graia also comes with the extremely valuable 'Deny on 4+ with any <Infantry> unit' Stratagem.

    Also...

    BAO Results
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    Graia, Battalion
    ...


    Spoiler: 5. BAO #5
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    Hawkshroud, Super-Heavies
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    I *KNEW* I was onto something for dealing with Thousand Sons and Daemons. The problem is that I'm not in the top 10% in the world, threw my first game, and decided it was ****.

    I knew my idea was real. I knew it was viable. But I ****ed up my first game and cried about it.
    *headdesk*

    I knew. In my heart. That big yellow Knights were real units.

    ...Let's look at the same thing, with Sisters.

    Valourous Heart
    Canoness - 45 Points
    Canoness - 45 Points

    Battle Sisters (x5) - 45 Points
    Battle Sisters (x5) - 45 Points
    Battle Sisters (x5) - 45 Points

    Total: 225 Points

    So, pay +50 Points for Acts of Faith over Canticles (not an even trade, IMO), and get 3+ Armour.
    As opposed to +6" range on your guns and the chance for AP-1, in 4+ Armour.
    Also, Canonii hand out rr1 to hit... Which would be good if S4, AP- was worth anything.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2019-05-28 at 01:05 AM.
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    Question Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Which would be good if Admech weren't swimming in rr1 to hit you mean, right?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalisj View Post
    Which would be good if Admech weren't swimming in rr1 to hit you mean, right?
    Like I said, AoF for Canticles is not even close to an even trade.
    If you're talking about Dominii, well, they're not part of the Battalion - they're too many points for the purposes of switch out Guard for AdMech.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2019-05-28 at 03:50 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
    Also, the old Rets didn't really emphasis boobplate all that much.

    Actually looking at the old metal models it really was only the Seraphim and the Sergeants who had any real emphasis on it and that primarily because they had their arms really sticking out.
    The old Sisters of Battle Retributor models had a "brassiere" trim to emphasize the position of their breasts, because their ribs and stomachs were modelled to look like corsets (you can kind of see the 'zip' running down from her breastbone). The new ones look to be almost completely featureless, with a little bit of topography to suggest a shape.
    Last edited by Wraith; 2019-05-28 at 04:42 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    The old Sisters of Battle Retributor models had a "brassiere" trim to emphasize the position of their breasts, because their ribs and stomachs were modelled to look like corsets (you can kind of see the 'zip' running down from her breastbone). The new ones look to be almost completely featureless, with a little bit of topography to suggest a shape.
    *squints* Aaawww all my shiny brass bits!
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Try Tamiya gloss, but be warned the stuff is noxious as hell and you need to really watch how you thin it.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    So, has anyone here played Heralds of Ruin?

    And, if yes, thoughts on it?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    So, has anyone here played Heralds of Ruin?

    And, if yes, thoughts on it?
    Haven't played their updated 8th version, but their 7th Ed version was great. I glanced through their 8th version and it still looks solid.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
    The look near exactly like the old ones, just in plastic.
    The flamethrower component looks different - presumably, inspired by the Inquisitor's hand flamer?

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    It does say that vehicle exhausts, braziers, etc. in the new range will have the same visual theme,
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Quote Originally Posted by druid91 View Post
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    First attempt at Alpha Legion colors... Unfortunately came out too dappled. Any tips for getting solid coats without making layering pointless?
    Wait for Contrast?

    Pricing info went out today. At 7.80 US$ a pot, they are pricey; however, this was necessary to not make regular paints obsolete. Be warned that, even though they come in 18 ml. pots, their consistency is closer to shades than to regular paint, so its likely to have as much mileage as a regular small pot.

    Several new base colors too, which is odd, because there are no contrast base colors aside from Seer Grey and Wraithbone.

    Textures have been rebranded as technical, edge paints are going away, glazes are rumoured to follow soon, and Air paints now all come in 24 ml. pots.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    Wait for Contrast?

    Pricing info went out today. At 7.80 US$ a pot, they are pricey; however, this was necessary to not make regular paints obsolete. Be warned that, even though they come in 18 ml. pots, their consistency is closer to shades than to regular paint, so its likely to have as much mileage as a regular small pot.

    Several new base colors too, which is odd, because there are no contrast base colors aside from Seer Grey and Wraithbone.

    Textures have been rebranded as technical, edge paints are going away, glazes are rumoured to follow soon, and Air paints now all come in 24 ml. pots.
    I’m surprised the air paints are sticking around, given GW doesn’t currently sell an airbrush!

    Any word on price/contents for a contrast starter box? I’ll be very surprised if there isn’t one!
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Quote Originally Posted by Avaris View Post
    I’m surprised the air paints are sticking around, given GW doesn’t currently sell an airbrush!

    Any word on price/contents for a contrast starter box? I’ll be very surprised if there isn’t one!
    Be surprised then, there isnt nor are there any hints there will be one, at least for trade range. Wouldnt surprise me if they give those 'bundles' in their website where its just the same as buying each separate, though.

    Also, Contrast has no metallics, so consider that. And they brush off really easy, so keep varnish on hand. Ah, and you cant paint light over dark, like, at all. So if you mess up you need to re-base the mess then re-contrast it. So its better for models with a large majority various shades of the same color.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    Also, Contrast has no metallics, so consider that. And they brush off really easy, so keep varnish on hand. Ah, and you cant paint light over dark, like, at all.
    I find this to be a problem.

    If your goal is to paint a model with multiple colours, contrast paints just aren't good. If you've got the kind of brush control that allows you to not make any mistakes with contrast paints, then you've got the brush control to do layering and highlighting.

    Which is what baffles me; In order to get a good coat with Contrast paints, you're gonna have to be a good painter in the first place. Meanwhile, it's basically being advertised as a wash, and basically as 'liquid talent'.

    Basically, advertising is lies.
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