Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

[LansXero]

That's easier with some gangs than others, eh?

well, yeah. the girls he was using all have pretty huge and spiky hairdos. But stuff like color-coding bases or details shouldnt be too hard; easier than fiddling with bits and magnets at least.

I feels like it should exist some middle ground between this and the Australian/Peruvian death battle meta were you get 'taken care of' if you dare taking the second best option?

Whats funny is that for us its about money, and according to cheese I suspect for them too. When things are way more expensive than usual, or your country was already pretty poor to begin with, you are way more careful with your spending and thus get more savy about avoiding 'traps'. There is also the possibility that as a kid from a poor part of my poor country who somehow found himself running a hobby shop, my perspective is all skewed and I should just rip casuals off and let them waste their cash in underperforming junk. Maybe then we'd have the 'fun and friendly' atmosphere we seem to be missing out?

[The Patterner]

Whats funny is that for us its about money, and according to cheese I suspect for them too. When things are way more expensive than usual, or your country was already pretty poor to begin with, you are way more careful with your spending and thus get more savy about avoiding 'traps'. There is also the possibility that as a kid from a poor part of my poor country who somehow found himself running a hobby shop, my perspective is all skewed and I should just rip casuals off and let them waste their cash in underperforming junk. Maybe then we'd have the 'fun and friendly' atmosphere we seem to be missing out?

Fair, Sweden has the advantage of no extra tariffs, short transportation and having a rich population. So yeah, I, can see why that leads to very different gaming cultures.

Altough our 'casual culture' is nowhere near as casual as you seem to think.

[Wraith]

Is it just me, or does trying to WYSIWYG your Necromunda gang seem like an excercise in futility? With equipment upgrades around every corner, weapons I can't even imagine trying to fit on a Necromunda mini. (Lascannons for example.) It just seems like the goal is more to get a bunch of cool distinctive models, then you explain who's who and who has what with the cards.

Congratulations, you have correctly identified the Necromunda business model; selling extra packs of cards at a premium price.

As others have suggested, just go with approximations rather than WYSIWYG. For example; All of my Van Saar gangers have what look like some kind of very similar laser rifle in their hands, so spotting the difference between lasguns, lascarbines and suppression lasers can be tricky even for me who assembled them.

So long as that model is equipped with some kind of two-handed laser rifle and I do what I can to make it abundantly clear to my opponent which is which, we generally don't worry too much about specifics.

...I guess I COULD have used the different heads to point out the difference - masked for lasgun, unmasked for suppression laser - but I honestly only thought of that right now. Live and learn, I guess.

[Avaris]

Congratulations, you have correctly identified the Necromunda business model; selling extra packs of cards at a premium price.

That would be the business model, except GW forgot to actually print enough to keep them in stock! Getting packs of gang cards is basically impossible now (which is why printers exist )

But yeah, go with approximations. Make each character unique as much as possible. If there is a character you really like who gets a new load out, convert up a new version, but otherwise don't sweat it.

(my plan is to just make a load of gangers with no real regard fro what they're equipped with, then make cards for them afterwards!)

[Wraith]

That would be the business model, except GW forgot to actually print enough to keep them in stock! Getting packs of gang cards is basically impossible now (which is why printers exist )

If you make 100 items and then sell 100 items, you have a sales ratio of 100%. If you make 1000 items and sell 999 of them, you have a sales ratio of 99.9%. Ergo the former is better.

This is, unfortunately, GW's perception of how retail works. There's no other way to explain their attitude towards supply and demand without submitting your brain to some kind of alien-crab-person logic.

[9mm]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/...mepage-post-3/

haven't had a chance to look through yet.

edit: I've finished looking through.

Adds the phobos options to the armies, and updates some wargear. Auto bolt rifles are now Assault 3, maybe people will actually use them now.

[Ornithologist]

Well, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Space wolves get the shaft again. They aren't allowed to use the Phobos psychic abilities. They have to stick with their chapters powers only. Though increasing the range on the flame cannon for baal preds and for land raider Redeemers was a nice change. I might even be tempted to finish painting my 2nd drop pod, I've had it long enough.

I suppose the only silver lining is that maybe they will get some form of combat doctrines eventually.... maybe? Not going to put money on it though.

[Avaris]

Well, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Space wolves get the shaft again. They aren't allowed to use the Phobos psychic abilities. They have to stick with their chapters powers only. Though increasing the range on the flame cannon for baal preds and for land raider Redeemers was a nice change. I might even be tempted to finish painting my 2nd drop pod, I've had it long enough.

I suppose the only silver lining is that maybe they will get some form of combat doctrines eventually.... maybe? Not going to put money on it though.

You either misread or missed this:

If you include a Librarian in Phobos Armour and you decide it is from the Blood Angels, change the final sentence of its Psyker ability to read: ‘It knows Smite and two psychic powers from the Obscuration discipline (see Codex: Space Marines) or two psychic powers from the Sanguinary discipline (see Codex: Blood Angels).’

(The others have similar)

[9mm]

They aren't allowed to use the Phobos psychic abilities.

yes they are.

If you include a Librarian in Phobos Armour and you decide it is from the Space Wolves, replace all instances of Librarian on its datasheet with Rune Priest, replace its Librarian keyword with Rune Priest, and replace all instances of force sword on its datasheet with runic sword. Change the final sentence of its Psyker ability to read: ‘It knows Smite and two psychic powers from the Obscuration discipline (see Codex: Space Marines) or two psychic powers from the Tempestas discipline (see Codex:
Space Wolves).

[Blackhawk748]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/...mepage-post-3/

haven't had a chance to look through yet.

edit: I've finished looking through.

Adds the phobos options to the armies, and updates some wargear. Auto bolt rifles are now Assault 3, maybe people will actually use them now.

Depends on their points. If they are too much over Storm Bolters then they won't be worth it.

[Avaris]

Depends on their points. If they are too much over Storm Bolters then they won't be worth it.

I think the auto ones are 1 pt extra over the cost of a normal bolt rifle. So it’s a case of whether the extra cost of an Intercessor is worth it

[Cheesegear]

General

Auto Bolt Rifles; Changing to Assault 3 is really good when you've decided to create your own Chapter and you don't want the -1 to hit when you Advance. This gives Intercessors some proper ability at board control now since they're no longer 'best used' sitting in your DZ behind Cover. It's also incredibly good when you pay 2 CPs for <Veteran> and then chuck on auto-hit at half range. That being said, it does require that you're creating your own Chapter, and it does require that you pretend that you're not seeing Infiltrators on the very next page.
Reivers; "What about our Carbines?"
GW; "Shut up, you! Go back to your corner. I said face the wall! We have a new son, now. His name is 'Infiltrators.'"

Stalker Bolt Rifles; Changing to Damage 2 is pretty solid. But again, charging 2 CPs to be able to target Characters is pretty trash because again, you're trying to pretend that Scouts don't exist for almost half the points, and also Eliminators exist. As much as I want to applaud 'ranged Thunder Hammers' on the MC Stalker, the fact that they can't target Characters makes them pretty bad. That said, apparently Thunder Hammers on <Characters> are going to like...40 Points. I doubt that, probably more like 30.

Demolisher Cannon; No-one cares.
Icarus Rocket Pod; No-one cares.

Flamestorm Cannon; 12" range!? ...That's...Something. Maybe Land Raider Redeemers will find a niche again. But, I doubt it. Normal Land Raiders have quad Lascannons, which means that they threaten Knights.

Hand Flamer; D6 shots is nice. But again, special Pistols are dumpster fires.

Captains in Gravis Armour; Are they still stuck with two Melee weapons and they pay points for both? Do they still move badly? Do they still do nothing at all? Cool. +1 Wound wont fix anything.

Agressors; +1 Attack and +1 Wound is nice. I will always rate anything that has 3 Wounds. Because Knight Crusaders can't double out the entire unit in one turn anymore. Big plus from me. However with Grav getting buffed, everyone has already dug out their Centurions with Grav-Cannons and Hurricane Bolters. So...Yeah.

Inceptors; I will always rate anything with 3 Wounds.

Terminators having 3 Wounds doesn't sound so stupid anymore, does it? That said, without 3 Wounds, they're now garbage tier. 5+ Invulnerable isn't worth anything when you have a 2+ save.

Reivers; <Reivers> don't stack. Who cares? Was anyone taking Reivers for their Leadership debuff?

Aggressors; Changed to reflect turns, rather than 'preceding Movement phase' which was super confusing. Still, works on your opponent's Turn 1 now. I think everyone wanted this change.

Drop Pods; Being exempt from Tactical Reserves means you don't have to have half your army on the board, and they can come down on Turn 1. Surely the null deployment has to get Errata'd at some point. There's a reason that GW introduced 'Put half your army on the board, you actually have to play the game'. So I don't expect this to last forever.

[Blackhawk748]

I think the auto ones are 1 pt extra over the cost of a normal bolt rifle. So it’s a case of whether the extra cost of an Intercessor is worth it

Oh, well in that case-

General

Auto Bolt Rifles; Changing to Assault 3 is really good when you've decided to create your own Chapter and you don't want the -1 to hit when you Advance. This gives Intercessors some proper ability at board control now since they're no longer 'best used' sitting in your DZ behind Cover. It's also incredibly good when you pay 2 CPs for <Veteran> and then chuck on auto-hit at half range. That being said, it does require that you're creating your own Chapter, and it does require that you pretend that you're not seeing Infiltrators on the very next page.
Reivers; "What about our Carbines?"
GW; "Shut up, you! Go back to your corner. I said face the wall! We have a new son, now. His name is 'Infiltrators.'"

And Cheese beat me too it. If you like Intercessors this is good, if you build your own chapter. Otherwise? Its not bad?

[Cheesegear]

ETC 2019 happened last weekend.

Caveats for following lists.

This is a Team Challenge, so being able to pick your opponents is a pretty huge deal. So take all lists with a grain of salt. That said, these lists aren't bad at all. Some of them are TAC lists, some of them are not. This will be apparent when you look at the lists. Generally speaking, each list is going to have 3 Defending lists, and 3 Attacking lists, and a wild. Defending lists are generally designed to be TAC, but, if TACing isn't possible, they're also designed to lose 'the least'. Part of 'not losing badly' is throwing down 200 models and forcing the game to be an unFun grindslog. Sure, you might not win, but your opponent - even if they do win - are going to be miserable.

Coming in at 4th Place, Team Australia. Remember Eurovision 2016? Australia came 2nd...You don't even go here!

Spoiler: Guard

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Cadian, Battalion
Commissar Yarrick
(W) Company Commander; Shotgun, Chainsword, Relic of Lost Cadia, Grand Strategist

Infantry Squad; Mortar
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad

Valhallan, Spearheead
Company Commander; Shotgun, Chainsword

Heavy Weapons Squad; Mortars (x3)
Heavy Weapons Squad; Mortars (x3)
Heavy Weapons Squad; Mortars (x3)

Astra Militarum, Super-Heavies
Shadowsword; Lascannons (x4), Heavy Stubber, Twin Heavy Bolters (x5) <Vostroyan>
Shadowsword; Lascannons (x4), Twin Heavy Bolters (x5) <Cadian>
Shadowsword; Lascannons (x2), Twin Heavy Bolters (x3) <Cadian>

Pretty self-explanatory. Your Team sees Knights, you throw out this list against them.

Spoiler: T'au

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T'au, Outrider
(W) Coldstar Commander; Missile Pods (x4), Through Unity, Devastation

Drones; Shield Drones (x6), Marker Drones (x2)
Drones; Shield Drones (x6), Marker Drones (x2)
Drones; Shield Drones (x6), Marker Drones (x2)

Broadsides (x3); High-Yield Missile Pods (x6), Smart Missile Systems (x6), ATS (x3)
+ Shield Drones (x6)

T'au, Supreme Command
Coldstar Commander; Missile Pods (x4)
Ethereal
Cadre Fireblade; Markerlight

T'au, Vanguard
Shadowsun

Riptide; Heavy Burst Cannon, Smart Missile Systems (x2), ATS, Target Lock
Riptide; Heavy Burst Cannon, Smart Missile Systems (x2), ATS, Target Lock
Riptide; Heavy Burst Cannon, Smart Missile Systems (x2), ATS, Target Lock

2000 Points

Make gunlines sad, I guess. This looks very much like a 1st Pick, that your opponent's Team goes goes 'I 'unno'. Point is, as a 'normal person' who doesn't play in Team Comps, I strongly advise you to take this list with seventeen spoonfuls of salt.

Spoiler: Thousand Sons / Daemons

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Thousand Sons, Battalion
Ahriman on Disc of Tzeentch; Doombolt, Death Hex, Warptime
(W) Daemon Prince of Tzeentch with Wings; Malefic Talons (x2), High Magister, Infernal Gaze, Weaver of Fates
Daemon Prince of Tzeentch with Wings; Malefic Talons (x2), Helm of the Third Eye, Glamour of Tzeentch

Tzaangors (x20); Blades, Brayhorn
Cultists (x10); Autoguns
Cultists (x10); Autoguns

Chaos Daemons, Battalion
Daemon Prince of Chaos with Wings; Daemonic Axe, <Khorne>
Poxbringer; Miasma of Pestilence <Nurgle>

Bloodletters (x20); Icon, Instrument <Khorne>
Bloodletters (x20); Icon, Instrument <Khorne>
Plaguebearers (x27); Instrument <Nurgle>

Chaos Daemons, Battalion
Changecaster; Staff of Change, Flickering Flames, Gaze of Fate <Tzeentch>
Herald of Slaanesh; Symphony of Pain <Slaanesh>

Pink Horrors (x20) <Tzeentch>
Brimstone Horrors (x10) <Tzeentch>
Plaguebearers (x20) <Nurgle>

1995 Points

Yep.

Spoiler: Sororitas / Knights

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Order of the Bloody Rose, Battalion
Canoness; Storm Bolter, Power Sword
Missionary

Battle Sisters (x5); Storm Bolters (x2), Power Sword
Battle Sisters (x5); Storm Bolters (x2), Power Sword
Battle Sisters (x5); Storm Bolters (x2), Power Sword

House Taranis, Super-Heavies
(W) Knight Crusader; Avenger Gatling Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Heavy Stubber, Ironstorm Missile Pod, Thermal Cannon, Ion Bulwark
Knight Crusader; Avenger Gatling Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Heavy Stubber, Ironstorm Missile Pod, Thermal Cannon
Knight Gallant; Heavy Stubber, Reaper Chainsword, Thunderstrike Gauntlet

House Krast, SHAD
Knight Crusader; Avenger Gatling Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Heavy Stubber, Ironstorm Missile Pod, Thermal Cannon

1999 Points

...That'd do it. 3 Crusaders is a nightmare. In case you don't know how Team Comps work, if you're asking "Why no Loyal 32?", it's because each Team is only allowed to run each Faction once (that's why there's variety in these lists). Guard is the best- or second-best Codex in the game (competing against Chaos Daemons), and it's very unlikely that any Team is going to waste their 'Guard slot' for 5 CPs. So, Sororitas are the next best thing - even if you only use Purity of Faith one time, still pretty good.

Spoiler: GSC / Tyranids

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Genestealer Cults, Vanguard
(W) Patriarch; Familiar, Mass Hypnosis, Mental Onslaught, Single-Minded Obsession <Bladed Cog>

Acolyte Hybrids (x16); Hand Flamers (x16) <Bladed Cog>

Kelermorph <Cult of the Four-Armed Emperor>
Locus <Bladed Cog>
Sanctus; Silencer Sniper Rifle <Cult of the Four-Armed Emperor>

Leviathan, Battalion
Broodlord; The Horror
Old One Eye

Termagants (x27)
Termagants (x27)
Termagants (x27)
Termagants (x27)

Venomthropes (x4)

Biovores (x2)

Leviathan, Battalion
Neurothrope; Psychic Scream
Neurothrope; Onslaught

Termagants (x27)
Termagants (x27)
Termagants (x26)

Reinforcements - 108 Points

Total: 2000 Points

Yep. A 'Defending List' if I ever saw one.

Spoiler: Craftworlds

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Alaitoc, Battalion
Farseer; Guide, Doom
Warlock Conclave (x2); Conceal/Reveal, Protect/Jinx
(W) Autarch Skyrunner; Laser Lance, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Fate's Messenger

Guardian Defenders (x10); Scatter Laser
Guardian Defenders (x10); Scatter Laser
Dire Avengers (x5); Exarch; Avenger Shuriken Catapults (x2)

Dark Reapers (x8); Exarch; Tempest Launcher
Dark Reapers (x8); Exarch; Tempest Launcher

Wave Serpent; Shuriken Cannon, Twin Starcannon, Crystal Targeting Matrix, Spirit Stones
Wave Serpent; Shuriken Cannon, Twin Starcannon, Crystal Targeting Matrix, Spirit Stones
Wave Serpent; Shuriken Cannon, Twin Starcannon, Crystal Targeting Matrix, Spirit Stones
Wave Serpent; Shuriken Cannon, Twin Starcannon, Crystal Targeting Matrix, Spirit Stones
Wave Serpent; Twin Shuriken Catapult, Twin Starcannon, Crystal Targeting Matrix, Spirit Stones

Biel-Tan, Auxiliary
Warlock Skyrunner; Twin Shuriken Catapult, Protect/Jinx, Spirit Stones of Anath'lan

No Drukhari is an odd choice. But my guess is that this list is designed to kill Blightlords and Meganobs and other similar units.

Spoiler: Deathwatch / Blood Angels / Assassins

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Deathwatch, Battalion
(W) Watch Master; Lord of Hidden Knowledge
Librarian with Jump Pack; Force Stave, The Beacon Angelis, Veil of Time, Null Zone

Veterans (x4); Storm Bolters (x4), Storm Shields (x4)
+ Watch Sergeant; Storm Bolter, Storm Shield
+ Terminators (x4); Storm Bolters (x4), Power Fist, Power Mauls (x3)
+ Vanguard Veteran; Storm Shield

Veterans (x4); Storm Bolters (x4), Storm Shields (x4)
+ Watch Sergeant; Storm Bolter, Storm Shield
+ Terminators (x4); Storm Bolters (x4), Power Mauls (x4)
+ Vanguard Veteran; Storm Shield

Veterans (x4); Storm Bolters (x4), Storm Shields (x4)
+ Watch Sergeant; Storm Bolter, Storm Shield
+ Terminators (x3); Storm Bolters (x3), Power Mauls (x3)
+ Biker; Twin Boltgun
+ Vanguard Veteran; Storm Shield

Veterans (x4); Storm Bolters (x4), Storm Shields (x4)
+ Watch Sergeant; Storm Bolter, Storm Shield
+ Terminators (x3); Storm Bolters (x3), Power Mauls (x3)
+ Vanguard Veteran; Storm Shield

Blood Angels, Battalion
Captain with Jump Pack; Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield, Death Visions
Captain with Jump Pack; Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield, Death Visions
Librarian Dreadnought; Quickening, Wings of Sanguinius

Scouts (x5); Boltguns
Scouts (x5); Boltguns
Scouts (x5); Boltguns

Assassins, !Vanguard
Vindicare Assassin
Vindicare Assassin
Vindicare Assassin

Total: 1999 Points

Nice! Burning three Factions in a single list is a risky choice. But they're also Factions that no-one else is going to want to use. So go for it. Beacon Angelis & Veil of Time is an obvious combo that works wonders.

Spoiler: Orks

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Deathskulls, Battalion
Dread Waaagh!

(W) Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun, Grot Oiler, Da Souped-Up Shokka, Oppurtunist
Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun, Grot Oiler

Gretchin (x10)
Gretchin (x10)
Gretchin (x10)

Evil Suns, Battalion
Warboss; Big Choopa, Kombi-Skorcha
Weirdboy; Da Jump

Gretchin (x10)
Gretchin (x10)
Gretchin (x10)

Meganobz (x10); Kustom Shootas (x10), Power Klaws (x10)
Meganobz (x10); Kustom Shootas (x10), Power Klaws (x10)

Bad Moonz, Battalion
Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun
Weirdboy; Warpath

Gretchin (x10)
Gretchin (x10)
Gretchin (x10)

Tankbustas (x15); Rokkit Launchas (x15), Bomb Squigs (x6)

Lootas (x15)

Total: 1999 Points

20 Meganobz, 90 Gretchin, and a SAG that targets Characters. Seems about right.

[Forum Explorer]

Drop Pods; Being exempt from Tactical Reserves means you don't have to have half your army on the board, and they can come down on Turn 1. Surely the null deployment has to get Errata'd at some point. There's a reason that GW introduced 'Put half your army on the board, you actually have to play the game'. So I don't expect this to last forever.

Make tabling happen at the end of each turn, not the battle round and the problem is solved.

[Cheesegear]

ETC 40K 2019, Team Poland, 3rd Place.

Normal Team Challenge caveats apply:
1. Each Faction is allowed only once per Team, so you're not going to see garbage Detachments like the Loyal 32 just thrown into every list. You might see garbage Detachments, sure. But not the Loyal 32. Rusty 17 instead, probably. The 'Guard slot' is very important in the current meta.
2. Each Team is likely to have 3 Defending Lists (i.e; Lists intended to lose least badly) and 3 Attacking Lists (i.e; Designed to beat specific opponents) with a wild TAC list. You'll notice which is which when you read the lists.

Spoiler: Genestealer Cults

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Bladed Cog, Battalion
(W) Patriarch; Mental Onslaught, Mind Control, Single-Minded Obsession
Jackal Alphus

Neophyte Hybrids (x10); Grenade Launchers (x2), Mining Lasers (x2)
Neophyte Hybrids (x10); Grenade Launchers (x2), Mining Lasers (x2)
Neophyte Hybrids (x10); Grenade Launchers (x2), Mining Lasers (x2)
Neophyte Hybrids (x10); Grenade Launchers (x2), Mining Lasers (x2)

Kelermorph

Twisted Helix, Battalion, Annointed Throng
Magus; Familiar, Mass Hypnosis, Might From Beyond, Psychic Stimulus, The Crouchling
Primus; Bonesword, Alien Majesty

Acolyte Hybrids (x5)
Acolyte Hybrids (x5)
Brood Brothers Infantry Squad

Aberrants (x10); Power Picks (x2), Hypermorphs; Heavy Improvised Weapons (x2)
Aberrants (x10); Power Picks (x2), Hypermorphs; Heavy Improvised Weapons (x2)
Biophagus; Alchemicus Familiar

Goliath Truck; Heavy Stubber, Twin Autocannon

Genestealer Cults, Battalion
Magus; Mind Control, Psychic Stimulus, Inscrutable Cunning <Cult of the Four-Armed Emperor>
Jackal Alphus <Bladed Cog>

Acolyte Hybrids (x18); Demolition Charges (x5), Hand Flamers (x17) <Bladed Cog>
Acolyte Hybrids (x18); Demolition Charges (x5), Hand Flamers (x16) <Bladed Cog>
Brood Brothers Infantry Squad

No Tyranids probably means a mono-Tyranid list is down the line. Still, a plenty good horde list if I've ever seen one.

Spoiler: Custodes / AdMech / Knights

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Adeptus Custodes, Supreme Command
Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike; Hurricane Bolter
Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike; Hurricane Bolter
Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike; Hurricane Bolter

Graia, Battalion
Tech-Priest Enginseer; Power Axe
Tech-Priest Enginseer; Power Axe

Skitarii Rangers (x5)
Skitarii Rangers (x5)
Skitarii Rangers (x5)

House Krast, Super-Heavies
(W) Knight Warden; Avenger Gatling Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Heavy Stubber, Twin Icarus Autocannon, Reaper Chainsword, Ion Bulwark, Endless Fury
Knight Warden; Avenger Gatling Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Heavy Stubber, Twin Icarus Autocannon, Thunderstrike Gauntlet
Knight Warden; Avenger Gatling Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Heavy Stubber, Thunderstrike Gauntlet

Rusty 17 reporting. As always, it's not the dual guns that makes Knight Crusaders good...Anything with an Avenger Gatling Cannon will do just fine. The melee weapons cut down the cost by like 50 Points per Knights, which gives you enough points to throw in a Graia Battalion that can deny Powers on a 4+.

Spoiler: Drukhari

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Prophets of Flesh, Battalion
(W) Urien Rakarth; Diabolical Soothsayer
Hamonculus; Hexrifle, Flesh Gauntlet

Wracks (x5)
Wracks (x5)
Wracks (x5)

Grotesques (x10); Flesh Gauntlets (x10), Monstrous Cleavers (x10)
Grotesques (x9); Flesh Gauntlets (x9), Monstrous Cleavers (x9)
Grotesques (x9); Flesh Gauntlets (x9), Monstrous Cleavers (x9)

Kabal of the Black Heart, Spearhead
Archon; Venom Blade, Writ of the Living Muse

Ravager; Dizzy Cannons (x3)
Ravager; Dizzy Cannons (x3)
Ravager; Dizzy Cannons (x3)

Razorwing Jetfighter; Dizzy Cannons (x2)
Razorwing Jetfighter; Dizzy Cannons (x2)

****. This is what Team Comps are all about. If you haven't tailored for a list just like this one, you're done. If you have? It loses immediately. Solo-Craftworlds list elsewhere...Probably.

Spoiler: Tyranids

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Kraken, Battalion
The Swarmlord; Dominion, Onslaught
Broodlord; Catalyst, The Ymgarl Factor

Temagants (x29)
Genestealers (x20); Acid Maws (x5)
Genestealers (x18); Acid Maws (x4)

Leviathan, Battalion
Neurothrope; Psychic Scream
(W) Broodlord; Catalyst, Perfectly Adapted

Ripper Swarms (x3)
Ripper Swarms (x3)
Ripper Swarms (x3)

Zoanthropes (x6); The Horror
Zoanthropes (x5); Paroxysm
Zoanthropes (x5); Onslaught

Seems legit.

Spoiler: Orks

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Evil Sunz, Battalion
(W) Warboss; Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw, Da Killa Klaw, Follow Me, Ladz!
Big Mek in Mega Armour; Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw, Kustom Force Field

Boyz (x30); Shootas, Tankbusta Bombs (x3), Big Choppa & Choppa
Boyz (x30); Shootas, Tankbusta Bombs (x3), Big Choppa & Choppa
Boyz (x29); Shootas, Tankbusta Bombs (x2), Big Choppa & Choppa

Bad Moons, Battalion
Weirdboy; Da Jump
Weirdboy; Da Jump

Gretchin (x10)
Gretchin (x10)
Gretchin (x10)

Lootas (x15)

Bad Moons, Battalion, Dread Waaagh!
Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun; Grot Oiler, Da Souped-Up Shokka
Weirdboy; Da Jump

Gretchin (x10)
Gretchin (x10)
Gretchin (x10)

Mek Gunz (x5); Smasha Guns (x5)
Mek Gunz (x5); Smasha Guns (x5)
Mek Gunz (x5); Smasha Guns (x5)

Again. Not a lot to say. What it does and who it's designed for is pretty obvious. Could probably even be the wild list, designed to go up against anything.

Spoiler: T'au

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T'au, Vanguard
Coldstar Commander; Missile Pods (x3), ATS, Through Unity, Devastation

Riptide; Heavy Burst Cannon, Smart Missile System, ATS, Target Lock
Riptide; Heavy Burst Cannon, Smart Missile System, ATS, Target Lock
Riptide; Heavy Burst Cannon, Smart Missile System, ATS, Target Lock

T'au, Battalion
Shadowsun
+ Shield Drones (x2)
+ Command-Link Drone

Cadre Fireblade; Markerlight, PENchip

Strike Team (x5); Markerlight
Strike Team (x5); Markerlight
Strike Team (x5); Markerlight

Drones (x6); Shield Drones (x5), Marker Drone
Drones (x6); Shield Drones (x5), Marker Drone
Drones (x6); Shield Drones (x5), Marker Drone

Broadsides (x3); High-Yield Missile Pods (x3), Seeker Missiles (x3), Smart Missile Systems (x6), ATS (x3)
+ Shield Drones (x4)
+ Marker Drone

Sa'cea, Vanguard
Ethereal

Firesight Marksman; Markerlight, Pulse Pistol
Firesight Marksman; Markerlight, Pulse Pistol
Firesight Marksman; Markerlight, Pulse Pistol

Move along, nothing to see here.

Spoiler: Guard / Blood Angels

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Catachan, Brigade, Emperor's Conclave Infantry Company
(W) Company Commander; Chainsword, Old Grudges
Company Commander; Chainsword, Kurov's Aquila
Colonel 'Iron Hand' Straken
Commissar Yarrick

Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad

Ministorum Priest; Chainsword
Astropath; Psychic Barrier
Astropath; Night Shroud
Astropath; Terrifying Visions

Scout Sentiel; Multi-Laser
Scout Sentiel; Multi-Laser
Scout Sentiel; Multi-Laser

Heavy Weapons Squad; Mortars (x3)
Heavy Weapons Squad; Mortars (x3)
Heavy Weapons Squad; Mortars (x3)

Vostroyan, Battalion, Emperor's Fist Tank Company
Tank Commander; Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Plasma Cannons (x2), Hammer of Sunderance
Tank Commander; Heavy Bolter, Heavy Stubber, Plasma Cannons (x2), Punisher Gatling Cannon
Tank Commander; Heavy Bolter, Heavy Stubber, Plasma Cannons (x2), Punisher Gatling Cannon

Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad

Platoon Commander; Chainsword

Blood Angels, Battalion
Captain with Jump Pack; Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield, Death Visions, Angel's Wing
Captain with Jump Pack; Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield, Death Visions

Scouts (x5); Combat Blades
Scouts (x5); Combat Blades
Scouts (x5); Combat Blades

No Bullgryn Squad is interesting. But, then again, that's what the Blood Angels are for.

Spoiler: Chaos Daemons

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Nurgle Daemons, Battalion
Spoilpox Scrivener
Poxbringer; Miasma of Pestilence

Plaguebearers (x30); Icon, Instrument
Plaguebearers (x30); Icon, Instrument
Plaguebearers (x30); Icon, Instrument
Plaguebearers (x30); Icon, Instrument
Plaguebearers (x30); Icon, Instrument

Chaos Daemons, Battalion
(W) Bloodmaster; The Crimson Crown, Rage Incarnate <Khorne>
Sloppity Bilepiper <Nurgle>

Bloodletters (x25); Icon, Instrument <Khorne>
Bloodletters (x25); Icon, Instrument <Khorne>
Nurglings (x3) <Nurgle>

Chaos Daemons, Fort
Feculent Gnarlmaw

Yeah. Put this list out first. Poo Tree Nurgle is always a fun list to play against and definitely doesn't make you hate the game.

[Renegade Paladin]

Demolisher Cannon; No-one cares.

I care if the change comes my way. My Russ Demolisher hasn't seen the table in too long.

Drop Pods; Being exempt from Tactical Reserves means you don't have to have half your army on the board, and they can come down on Turn 1. Surely the null deployment has to get Errata'd at some point. There's a reason that GW introduced 'Put half your army on the board, you actually have to play the game'. So I don't expect this to last forever.

Sudden Death is still a thing. If you null deploy you lose the game.

[LansXero]

So, a friend has asked help with a Dark Angels list for a 2k game with a friend who'll be playing Imperial Guard, likely using a Fortress of Redemption. Usually the enemy list is Pask, a bunch of weapon teams inside the fortress, and some scions to go out and take out important targets, but the guy has a ton of Imperial Guard so it could vary.

The following is the core of what I came up with, what would be a good use of the remaining points?

Spoiler: Preliminary List

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++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Dark Angels) [51 PL, 948pts] ++

+ HQ +

Azrael [9 PL, 180pts]: 3. Brilliant Strategist, Warlord

Ravenwing Talonmaster [9 PL, 188pts]
. Land Speeder: Twin assault cannon, Twin heavy bolter
. Shroud of Heroes
. Talonmaster: Power sword

+ Troops +

Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Scout (Boltgun)
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Scout (Boltgun)
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Scout (Boltgun)
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

+ Elites +

Chapter Ancient [5 PL, 85pts]: Bolt pistol

+ Heavy Support +

Hellblaster Squad [16 PL, 330pts]: 9x Hellblaster
. Hellblaster Sergeant: Bolt pistol
. Plasma incinerators

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Dark Angels) [32 PL, -1CP, 558pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Specialist Detachment: Ravenwing Attack Squadron [-1CP]

+ HQ +

Sammael in Sableclaw [11 PL, 216pts]

+ Fast Attack +

Ravenwing Black Knights [7 PL, 114pts]
. Ravenwing Black Knight: Corvus Hammer
. Ravenwing Black Knight: Corvus Hammer
. Ravenwing Huntmaster: Corvus Hammer
. . Black Knight Bike: Plasma Talon

Ravenwing Black Knights [7 PL, 114pts]
. Ravenwing Black Knight: Corvus Hammer
. Ravenwing Black Knight: Corvus Hammer
. Ravenwing Huntmaster: Corvus Hammer
. . Black Knight Bike: Plasma Talon

Ravenwing Black Knights [7 PL, 114pts]
. Ravenwing Black Knight: Corvus Hammer
. Ravenwing Black Knight: Corvus Hammer
. Ravenwing Huntmaster: Corvus Hammer
. . Black Knight Bike: Plasma Talon

++ Total: [83 PL, -1CP, 1,506pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

[Cheesegear]

Sudden Death is still a thing. If you null deploy you lose the game.

Sudden Death doesn't happen 'til the end of the round.

[Avaris]

Sudden Death doesn't happen 'til the end of the round.

Does it matter that you don’t lose sooner than that? Null deployment is a problem if you go an entire round with nothing on the board, but if you’re bringing your army in in round 1 it’s fine I feel.

In other news, any thoughts on the new ‘smash Chaplain’? If you haven’t come across it, Jump Pack Chaplain with Warlord trait re-roll Charge, +1S, +1A, Might of Heroes used to give +1 S/T/A, Mantra of Strength litany for +1 S/A/D, and relic Crozius with S+2, AP-2, D3 and MW on unmodified 6 to W. So 7 attacks on the charge with S9, AP2 and D4, plus MW possibility.

My assessment is cheaper than Smash Captain in points and CP, but less reliable because of it? You need both a psychic power and a Chaplain litany to be successful to be at full effectiveness, and he is also less survivable given no Storm Shield (though rosarius helps). Also less AP?

[Hootman]

Does it matter that you don’t lose sooner than that? Null deployment is a problem if you go an entire round with nothing on the board, but if you’re bringing your army in in round 1 it’s fine I feel.

I believe the main problem is that, if you go second, it completely denies your opponent an entire turn of shooting. In a game that only lasts about 5 turns (and, in most competitive settings, will probably be determined by the bottom of Turn 3 at the latest), that's quite a lot.

"Ok, you rolled higher, so you're going first. I don't try to sieze. Go ahead."
"....Um. I guess...I move some of my guys a little. This unit Advances onto an Objective. My other cards are useless, since I can't shoot any of your stuff. Pass?"
"Rad. I bring in all of my Drop Pods 9" away, and get ready to charge your entire army. Unless it's a shooting unit with like Melta guns or something, they just slag all your tanks from nearly point-blank range."

[LansXero]

I believe the main problem is that, if you go second, it completely denies your opponent an entire turn of shooting. In a game that only lasts about 5 turns (and, in most competitive settings, will probably be determined by the bottom of Turn 3 at the latest), that's quite a lot.

"Ok, you rolled higher, so you're going first. I don't try to sieze. Go ahead."
"....Um. I guess...I move some of my guys a little. This unit Advances onto an Objective. My other cards are useless, since I can't shoot any of your stuff. Pass?"
"Rad. I bring in all of my Drop Pods 9" away, and get ready to charge your entire army. Unless it's a shooting unit with like Melta guns or something, they just slag all your tanks from nearly point-blank range."

do you play on a flat, featureless board? Depending on the list, putting everything in reserve, specially if its full of melee units, could be an auto-lose. try and land a freaking drop pod in between terrain AND hordes of gretchin. use DaJump not to assault ****, but just to scatter a bunch of grots around to force the 'smart' drop pod player to deploy all his melee in his deployment zone, wasting his points and overall just sucking.

Still, bad design, but not because its OP, just because its dumb

[Avaris]

I believe the main problem is that, if you go second, it completely denies your opponent an entire turn of shooting. In a game that only lasts about 5 turns (and, in most competitive settings, will probably be determined by the bottom of Turn 3 at the latest), that's quite a lot.

"Ok, you rolled higher, so you're going first. I don't try to sieze. Go ahead."
"....Um. I guess...I move some of my guys a little. This unit Advances onto an Objective. My other cards are useless, since I can't shoot any of your stuff. Pass?"
"Rad. I bring in all of my Drop Pods 9" away, and get ready to charge your entire army. Unless it's a shooting unit with like Melta guns or something, they just slag all your tanks from nearly point-blank range."

Thing is, that set of moves is also exactly what happens if you go first? So all it’s really doing is guaranteeing you get first turn advantage, regardless of whether you actually go first or not.

First turn advantage is a big thing to have of course! But that’s a factor of the overall rules of 40k, not the marines themselves (alternate activation system when?). So I’m not sure that an errata saying ‘you have to have at least one unit on the battlefield after deployment’ or something really makes much difference? “Cool, I deploy this unit of 5 scouts in cover out of line of sight” is not meaningfully different to a null deployment situation, as drop pods are explicitly breaking the normal rules of having half of army on the tabletop.

Edit: also what LansXero said. Also also, can drop pods actually be used by Primaris? Seems a surprising omission if not!

[Forum Explorer]

do you play on a flat, featureless board? Depending on the list, putting everything in reserve, specially if its full of melee units, could be an auto-lose. try and land a freaking drop pod in between terrain AND hordes of gretchin. use DaJump not to assault ****, but just to scatter a bunch of grots around to force the 'smart' drop pod player to deploy all his melee in his deployment zone, wasting his points and overall just sucking.

Still, bad design, but not because its OP, just because its dumb

If you are playing a horde, sure. It's much much harder to pull that off with, well the majority of armies. Even some horde armies can't do it.

Thing is, that set of moves is also exactly what happens if you go first? So all it’s really doing is guaranteeing you get first turn advantage, regardless of whether you actually go first or not.

First turn advantage is a big thing to have of course! But that’s a factor of the overall rules of 40k, not the marines themselves (alternate activation system when?). So I’m not sure that an errata saying ‘you have to have at least one unit on the battlefield after deployment’ or something really makes much difference? “Cool, I deploy this unit of 5 scouts in cover out of line of sight” is not meaningfully different to a null deployment situation, as drop pods are explicitly breaking the normal rules of having half of army on the tabletop.

Edit: also what LansXero said. Also also, can drop pods actually be used by Primaris? Seems a surprising omission if not!

Going first is an absolutely massive advantage. Particularly if you are actually going second, because then you waste an entire turn from your opponent, so they effectively get one less turn in the game than you do. And yes, I'd say guaranteeing that you always go first is incredibly OP.

I do believe Drop Pods can't take Primaris Marines, and of course they can't take tanks (but they can take dreadnaughts.) So that will be a significant cost of taking all drop pods. Not to mention the drop pods themselves, that's likely some 500 points.

But that being said, it's a really easy fix so that people can't do it in the first place. 'Sudden Death applies at the end of each Turn, not battle round.' I honestly don't know why it isn't set up that way in the first place.

[Avaris]

But that being said, it's a really easy fix so that people can't do it in the first place. 'Sudden Death applies at the end of each Turn, not battle round.' I honestly don't know why it isn't set up that way in the first place.

But does that fix anything though? Drop pods are explicitly ignoring the normal reserves rules, so if sudden death applys at end of deployment you only need to deploy a single unit to bypass it. So changing how sudden death works doesn’t actually ‘fix’ anything about this situation.

As for ‘losing’ a turn... that only matters if games regularly go down to the wire and need all 5 turns, which doesn’t happen all that often? The big advantage is guaranteed first turn advantage, which as I say is a massive advantage, but not one fixed by the sudden death rules!

[Forum Explorer]

But does that fix anything though? Drop pods are explicitly ignoring the normal reserves rules, so if sudden death applys at end of deployment you only need to deploy a single unit to bypass it. So changing how sudden death works doesn’t actually ‘fix’ anything about this situation.

As for ‘losing’ a turn... that only matters if games regularly go down to the wire and need all 5 turns, which doesn’t happen all that often? The big advantage is guaranteed first turn advantage, which as I say is a massive advantage, but not one fixed by the sudden death rules!

Do you think you can kill one unit with your entire army? Because if you do, than you win.


On the contrary, the only times it doesn't happen is when one side is getting utterly smashed. Even then, it can still matter. For example, in my last game I played I got tabled. But since we were playing a chapter approved mission, the game didn't end. And I had built up enough of a point advantage, that had the game ended turn 5, I would've won. So yeah, if I would've been able to deny him an entire turn, then victory would've been mine. Despite him killing my entire army.

[Avaris]

Do you think you can kill one unit with your entire army? Because if you do, than you win.


On the contrary, the only times it doesn't happen is when one side is getting utterly smashed. Even then, it can still matter. For example, in my last game I played I got tabled. But since we were playing a chapter approved mission, the game didn't end. And I had built up enough of a point advantage, that had the game ended turn 5, I would've won. So yeah, if I would've been able to deny him an entire turn, then victory would've been mine. Despite him killing my entire army.

Ah, apologies, misread! Yes, sudden death at end of turn gives a definite improvement on things.

[Cheesegear]

ETC 40K 2019, 2nd Place, Team Russia

A good thing about ETC lists is that each Faction can be used only once, and if we know anything about tournament players, if they can't use the best thing, they move to the next thing. So, on the one hand, ETC Teams' Lists are a good way to figure out the 'Top 8' individual lists in the game. However, it's not quite as simple as that, since about half the lists have the ability to pick their opponents depending on the round. So, take it with a grain of salt.

Spoiler: Harlequins / Drukhari

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Frozen Stars, Battalion
Shadowseer; Twilight Pathways, Veil of Tears
Troupe Master; Harlequin's Kiss

Troupe (x10); Harlequin's Caresses (x3), Harlequin's Kisses (x3)
Troupe (x10); Harlequin's Caresses (x3), Harlequin's Kisses (x3)
Troupe (x10); Harlequin's Caresses (x3), Harlequin's Kisses (x2)

Skyweavers (x5); Haywire Cannons (x5), Zephyrglaives (x5)

Black Heart, Battalion
Archon; Huskblade
Archon; Venom Blade, Labyrinthine Cunning, Writ of the Living Muse

Kabalite Warriors (x5)
Kabalite Warriors (x5)
Kabalite Warriors (x5)

Ravager; Dizzy Cannons (x3), Grisly Trophies
Ravager; Dizzy Cannons (x3)
Ravager; Dizzy Cannons (x3)

Prophets of Flesh, Battalion
Haemonculus; Hexrifle, Electrocorrosive Whip
Haemonculus; Hexrifle, Electrocorrosive Whip

Wracks (x9); Ossificator, Venom Blade
Wracks (x9); Ossificator, Venom Blade
Wracks (x9); Ossificator, Venom Blade

Lots of fast-moving Harlequins to run around grabbing board control making gunlines look stupid.

Spoiler: Chaos Marines

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Flawless Host, Supreme Command, Soulforged
(W) Lord Discordant; Autocannon, Techno-Virus Injector, Ultimate Confidence, Flawless Cloak
Lord Discordant; Autocannon, Techno-Virus Injector
Lord Discordant; Autocannon, Techno-Virus Injector
(FC) Warpsmith; Flamer, Meltagun, Power Axe, Master of Soulforges

Chaos Space Marines, Spearhead
Master of Possession; Force Stave, Cursed Earth, Infernal Power <Flawless Host, Slaanesh>

Noise Marines (x10); Sonic Blasters (x10) <Alpha Legion, Slaanesh>

Defiler; Reaper Autocnnon, Defiler Scourge <Flawless Host, Slaanesh>
Defiler; Reaper Autocnnon, Defiler Scourge <Flawless Host, Slaanesh>
Defiler; Reaper Autocnnon, Defiler Scourge <Flawless Host, Slaanesh>
Venomcrawler; <Flawless Host, Slaanesh>
Venomcrawler; <Flawless Host, Slaanesh>

Red Corsairs, Battalion
Huron Blackheart; Prescience
Daemon Prince with Wings; Talons (x2), Delightful Agonies <Slaanesh>

Chaos Space Marines (x5); Combi-Bolter <Slaanesh>
Chaos Space Marines (x5); Combi-Bolter <Slaanesh>
Chaos Space Marines (x5); Combi-Bolter <Slaanesh>

Chaos Marine meta is triple Discordants and a bunch of Daemon Engines. The sneaky Alpha Legion Noise Marines are still in 8th Ed. Good list.

Spoiler: Orks

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Evil Sunz, Battalion
(W) Warboss; Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw, Attack Squig, Da Killa Klaw, Speed Freak
Big Mek in Mega Armour; Power Klaw, Kustom Shoota, Kustom Force Field, Grot Oiler

Boyz (x30); Shootas, Tankbusta Bombs (x3), Big Choppa & Choppa
Boyz (x30); Shootas, Tankbusta Bombs (x3), Big Choppa & Choppa
Boyz (x30); Shootas, Tankbusta Bombs (x3), Big Choppa & Choppa

Bad Moons, Battalion
Weirdboy; Da Jump
Weirdboy; Warpath

Boyz (x30); Shootas, Tankbusta Bombs (x3), Big Choppa & Choppa
Boyz (x30); Shootas, Tankbusta Bombs (x3), Big Choppa & Choppa
Gretchin (x10)

Deathskulls, Spearhead, Dread Waaagh!
Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun; Grot Oiler, Da Souped-Up Shokka

Mad Dok Grotsnik

Mek Gunz; Smasha Guns (x5)
Mek Gunz; Smasha Guns (x4)
Mek Gunz; Smasha Guns (x4)

Orks have extremely strong HQs and Troops, and what else do you even need to make an army?
...Still not ever seeing Dreads in a Dread Waaagh! Because GW has no idea what they're doing.

Spoiler: Tyranids / Genestealer Cults

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Leviathan, Battalion
Broodlord; Onslaught
Tyranid Prime; Deathspitter, Boneswords, Adrenal Glands

Tyranid Warriors (x9); Deathspitters (x6), Venom Cannons (x3), Boneswords (x7), Scything Talons (x2), Adrenal Glades (x9)
Tyranid Warriors (x9); Deathspitters (x6), Venom Cannons (x3), Boneswords (x7), Scything Talons (x2), Adrenal Glades (x9)
Tyranid Warriors (x4); Deathspitters (x3), Venom Cannon, Boneswords (x2), Scything Talons (x2)
Tyranid Warriors (x4); Deathspitters (x3), Venom Cannon, Boneswords (x1), Scything Talons (x3)

Cult of the Four-Armed Emperor, Battalion
Broodcoven

(BC) Magus; Familiar, Inscrutable Cunning, Might From Beyond, Mass Hypnosis
(W) Patriarch; Familiar, Shadow Stalker, The Crouchling, Mental Onslaught, Might From Beyond, Mass Hypnosis

Acolyte Hybrids (x12); Hand Flamers (x12)
Acolyte Hybrids (x10)
Acolyte Hybrids (x10)

Cult of the Four-Armed Emperor, Battalion, Deliverance Broodsurge
(FC) Iconward; Augur of the Insurgent
(BC) Primus; Bonesword, Alien Majesty

Acolyte Hybrids (x18); Icon
Acolyte Hybrids (x18); Icon
Acolyte Hybrids (x17); Icon

Clamavus
Sanctus; Silencer Sniper Rifle, The Gift From Beyond

Always nice to see Tyranid Warriors. Big ****-off unit that is very hard to kill because 3-wound Death Stars are deceptively strong.

Spoiler: Chaos Daemons / Thousand Sons

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Thousand Sons, Supreme Command
Ahriman on Disc of Tzeentch; Gaze of Fate, Warptime, Prescience
Daemon Prince of Tzeentch with Wings; Talons (x2), Inspiring Leader, Helm of the Third Eye, Gaze of Fate, Warptime
Daemon Prince of Tzeentch; Talons (x2), Gaze of Fate, Warptime

Scarab Occult Terminators (x9); Hellfyre Missile Racks (x2), Inferno Combi-Bolters (x10), Force Stave, Power Swords (x9), Warptime

Tzeentch Daemons, Battalion
Changecaster; Gaze of Fate
Changecaster; Gaze of Fate

Pink Horrors (x20)
Brimstone Horrors (x10)
Brimstone Horrors (x10)

Chaos Daemons, Battalion
Herald of Slaanesh; Delightful Agonies <Slaanesh>
Poxbringer; Virulent Blessing <Nurgle>

Bloodletters (x25); Icon, Instrument
Plaguebearers (x29); Instrument
Plaguebearers (x29); Instrument

A nice spin on an old formula. Worth noting that this is the first time ever that I've seen Scarab Terminators used in a tournament list.

Spoiler: Space Marines / AdMech / Blood Angels

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Crimson Fists, Battalion, Indomitus Crusaders
Pedro Kantor
Primaris Lieutenant; Master-Crafted Auto Bolt Rifle
(W) Librarian in Phobos Armour; Storm of Fire, Tenebrous Curse, Mind Raid

Intercessors (x10); Bolt Rifles, AGLs (x2), Power Fist
Intercessors (x10); Bolt Rifles, AGLs (x2), Power Fist
Intercessors (x10); Bolt Rifles, AGLs (x2), Power Fist

Primaris Ancient; Standard of the Emperor Ascendant

Devastators (x5); Lascannon, Heavy Bolter, Armorium Cherub
Devastators (x5); Lascannon, Heavy Bolter, Armorium Cherub
Thunderfire Cannon; Flamer, Plasma Cutter

Blood Angels, Battalion
Captain with Jump Pack; Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield, Angel's Wing, Death Visions
Librarian Dreadnought; Storm Bolter, Wings of Sanguinius, Quickening

Scouts (x5); Combat Blades, Boltgun & Chainsword
Scouts (x5); Combat Blades, Boltgun & Chainsword
Scouts (x5); Sniper Rifles (x5)

Vanguard Veterans with Jump Packs (x8); Chainswords (pair; x2), Chainswords & Storm Shields (x5), Power Axe & Chainsword

Graia, Battalion
Tech-Priest Enginseer; Power Axe
Tech-Priest Enginseer; Power Axe

Skitarii Rangers (x5)
Skitarii Rangers (x5)
Skitarii Rangers (x5)

WTF!? Tell me more.

Spoiler: Grey Knights / Space Wolves / Dark Angels

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Grey Knights, Battalion
Lord Kaldor Draigo; Purge Soul, Gate
(W) Brother-Captain; Storm Bolter, Nemesis Warding Stave, Gate, First to the Fray
Castellan Crowe; Gate

Strike Squad (x5); Psilencer, Storm Bolters (x4), Nemesis Falchions (Pairs; x4), Gate
Strike Squad (x5); Storm Bolters (x5), Nemesis Falchions (Pairs; x5), Hammerhand
Strike Squad (x5); Storm Bolters (x5), Nemesis Falchions (Pairs; x5), Vortex

Brotherhood Ancient; Storm Bolter, Nemesis Falchion, Banner of Refining Flame, Hammerhand
Venerable Dreadnought; Missile Launcher, Twin Lascannon, Astral Aim
Servitors (x4)

Interceptors (x10); Storm Bolters (x10), Nemesis Falchions (Pairs; x10), Astral Aim

Dark Angels, Spearhead
Primaris Librarian; Force Sword, Aversion, Mind Wipe

Hunter; Hunter-Killer Missile
Eliminators (x3); Bolt Sniper Rifles (x3), Camo Cloaks (x3)
Eliminators (x3); Bolt Sniper Rifles (x3), Camo Cloaks (x3)

Space Wolves, Spearhead
Njal Stormcaller; Tempest's Wrath, Living Lightning, Jaws of the World Wolf
Rune Priest in Phobos Armour; Force Sword, Camo Cloak, Tenebrous Curse, Mind Raid

Hunter; Hunter-Killer Missile
Hunter; Hunter-Killer Missile
Eliminators (x3); Bolt Sniper Rifles (x3), Camo Cloaks (x3)

OH MY GOD. I didn't even realise that Mortal Wound spam in the <Imperium> Faction was even possible. But here it is.
Two Astartes lists in a row, in one of the most competitive events on the planet, winning games.
...Have I died?

Spoiler: Guard / Assassins

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Vostroyan, Brigade, Emperor's Wrath Artillery Company
(W) Company Commander; Grand Strategist
Company Commander
Primaris Psyker; Psychic Barrier, Mental Fortitude
Primaris Psyker; Psychic Maelstrom, Terrifying Visions
Commissar Yarrick

Infantry Squad; Mortar, Plasma Gun
Infantry Squad; Mortar, Plasma Gun
Infantry Squad; Mortar, Plasma Gun
Infantry Squad; Mortar, Plasma Gun
Infantry Squad; Sniper Rifle
Infantry Squad; Sniper Rifle

Astropath; Psychic Barrier
Astropath; Night Shield
Astropath; Psychic Maelstrom
Ministorum Priest; Autogun, Chainsword
Ogryn Bodyguard; Bullgryn Maul, Slabshield

Scout Sentinel; Multi-Laser
Armoured Sentinel; Plasma Cannon
Armoured Sentinel; Plasma Cannon

Heavy Weapon Squad; Mortars (x3)
Basilisk; Heavy Bolter
Wyvern; Heavy Bolter

Catachan, Battalion, Emepror's Fist Tank Company
Tempestor Prime; Command Rod
Sly Marbo
Tank Commander; Battle Cannon, Lascannon, Plasma Cannons (x2), Hammer of Sunderance

MT Scions (x10); Plasma Guns (x4), Plasma Pistol & Chainsword
MT Scions (x5); Plasma Guns (x2), Plasma Pistol & Chainsword
MT Scions (x5); Plasma Guns (x2), Plasma Pistol & Chainsword

Assassins, Execution Force
Vindicare Assassin
Callidus Assassin
Eversor Assassin
Culexus Assassin

Sly Marbo? WTF!? What happened to the Catachan Brigade!? These dudes are a bunch of geniuses.
This is why net-lists are important. 'Cause you might actually learn something.
...That, or Guard are just good, no matter what you run.

...No excuse for two Astartes lists though. That's mind-boggling.

[LansXero]

Once there was this big tournament for Pokemon TCG. A couple of weeks before, a crappy Ash-Greninja EX box had been released; it was a fan-servicey poke for fans of the anime with crap stats and attacks. Anyways, the guy who took 2º place in swiss and made Top 4 put one of those in his deck, and in the decklist's deck name, just to mess with coverage and meta breakdowns. Since full decklists cant be posted until the event ends, everyone was going WTF and WHY at 'an Ash-Greninja Ex deck is at the top tables, going x-0'.

Dunno why that Marbo pick reminded me of that.

[Cheesegear]

ETC 40K 2019, 1st Place, Team England

One or two of these lists might be undefeated. Another one of these lists might even have gone 0-5. That's how being able to choose your opponents works, for better or worse. That being said, this is the winning ETC Team so every list here is created by the same group of people, and they definitely do know what they're doing.

Spoiler: Deathwatch / Black Templars / Assassins

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Black Templars, Battalion
(W) Captain with Jump Pack; Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield, The Imperium's Sword
Captain with Jump Pack; Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield, The Shield Eternal

Scouts (x5)
Scouts (x5)
Scouts (x5)

Deathwatch, Battalion
Watch Master
Watch Captain with Jump Pack; Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield

Veterans (x5); Storm Bolters (x5), Storm Shields (x5)
+ Watch Sergeant; Storm Bolter, Storm Shield
+ Terminators (x3); Storm Bolters (x3), Power Axes (x3)
+ Vanguard Veteran; Bolt Pistol, Storm Shield

Veterans (x5); Storm Bolters (x5), Storm Shields (x5)
+ Watch Sergeant; Storm Bolter, Storm Shield
+ Terminators (x3); Storm Bolters (x3), Power Axes (x3)
+ Vanguard Veteran; Bolt Pistol, Storm Shield

Veterans (x5); Storm Bolters (x5), Storm Shields (x5)
+ Watch Sergeant; Storm Bolter, Storm Shield
+ Terminators (x3); Storm Bolters (x3), Power Axes (x2), Power Maul
+ Vanguard Veteran; Bolt Pistol, Storm Shield

Veterans (x4); Storm Bolters (x4), Storm Shields (x4)
+ Watch Sergeant; Storm Bolter, Storm Shield
+ Biker; Twin Boltgun, Chainsword, Deathwatch Teleport Homer

Assassins, !Vanguard
Vindicare Assassin
Vindicare Assassin
Eversor Assassin
Eversor Assassin
Culexus Assassin

Rad. If you can't run Blood Angels ('cause you're running them elsewhere in the Team), run Black Templars.

Spoiler: Thousand Sons / Daemons

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Thousand Sons, Supreme Command
(W) Daemon Prince of Tzeentch with Wings; Talons (x2), High Magister, Gaze of Fate, Bolt of Change, Dark Matter Crystal
Sorcerer; Inferno Bolt Pistol, Force Stave, Tzeentch's Firestorm
Sorcerer; Inferno Bolt Pistol, Force Stave, Doombolt, Prescience

Thousand Sons, Battalion
Ahriman; Weaver of Fates, Glamour of Tzeentch, Death Hex
Sorcerer; Inferno Bolt Pistol, Force Stave, Infernal Gaze, Warptime

Tzaangors (x25); Brayhorn
Tzaangors (x25); Brayhorn
Tzaangors (x25); Brayhorn

Tzaangor Shaman; Force Stave, Temporal Manipulation

Chaos Daemons, Battalion
Daemon Prince with Wings; Daemonic Axe, <Khorne>
Poxbringer; Miasma of Pestilence <Nurgle>
The Contorted Epitome; Symphony of Pain, Phantasmagoria <Slaanesh>

Plaguebearers (x28)
Nurglings (x3)
Nurglings (x3)

That'd do it.

Spoiler: Guard / Blood Angels

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Blood Angels, Supreme Command
Captain with Jump Pack; Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield
Captain with Jump Pack; Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield
Captain with Jump Pack; Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield, The Angel's Wing
Librarian Dreadnought; Storm Bolter, Quickening, Wings of Sanguinius
(W) Librarian Dreadnought; Storm Bolter, Quickening, Wings of Sanguinius, Artisan of War

Catachan, Brigade, Emperor's Conclave Infantry Company
Company Commander
Company Commander
Colonel 'Iron Hand' Straken

Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad

Ministorum Priest; Autogun, Chainsword
Astropath; Psychic Barrier
Platoon Commander; Power Fist
Sergeant Harker

Scout Sentinel; Multi-Laser
Scout Sentinel; Multi-Laser
Scout Sentinel; Multi-Laser

Heavy Weapons Team; Mortars (x3)
Heavy Weapons Team; Mortars (x3)
Heavy Weapons Team; Mortars (x3)

Catachan, Battalion, Emperor's Wrath Artillery Company
Company Commander
Primaris Psyker; Force Stave, Psychic Barrier, Nightshroud

Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad

Wyvern; Heavy Bolter
Wyvern; Heavy Bolter
Wyvern; Heavy Bolter

This is the Guard list I'm more used to.

Spoiler: Craftworlds / Drukhari

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Alaitoc, Battalion
Autarch; Star Glaive, Force Shield, Fate's Messenger, Faolchu's Wing
Farseer Skyrunner; Singing Spear, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Doom, Guide
Warlock Skyrunner; Singing Spear, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Protect/Jinx

Guardian Defenders (x20); Shuriken Cannons (x2)
Rangers (x5)
Rangers (x5)

Alaitoc, Air Wing
Crimson Hunter Exarch; Pulse Laser, Starcannons (x2)
Crimson Hunter Exarch; Pulse Laser, Starcannons (x2)
Crimson Hunter Exarch; Pulse Laser, Starcannons (x2)
Crimson Hunter; Pulse Laser, Bright Lances (x2)
Crimson Hunter; Pulse Laser, Bright Lances (x2)

Kabal of the Black Heart, Air Wing
Razorwing Jet Fighter; Dizzy Cannons (x2), Twin Splinter Rifle, Razorwing Missiles
Razorwing Jet Fighter; Dizzy Cannons (x2), Twin Splinter Rifle, Razorwing Missiles
Voidraven Bomber; Dark Scythes (x2), Voidraven Missiles
Voidraven Bomber; Dark Scythes (x2), Voidraven Missiles

Jesus. Crimson Hunters and Crimson Hunter Exarchs are different Datasheets, because of course they are. What are Knights gonna do against that many Fliers?

Spoiler: Knights / AdMech

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House Taranis, Super-Heavies
(W) Knight Warden; Avenger Gatling Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Heavy Stubber, Ironstorm Missile Pod, Thunderstrike Gauntlet, Cunning Commander, Endless Fury
Knight Crusader; Avenger Gatling Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Heavy Stubber, Ironstorm Missile Pod, Thermal Cannon
Knight Crusader; Avenger Gatling Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Heavy Stubber, Ironstorm Missile Pod, Thermal Cannon
Knight Crusader; Avenger Gatling Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Heavy Stubber, Thermal Cannon, Twin Icarus Autocannon

Adeptus Mechanicus, Battalion
Tech-Priest Enginseer <Graia>
Tech-Priest Enginseer <Graia>

Skitarii Rangers (x5) <Graia>
Skitarii Rangers (x5) <Graia>
Skitarii Rangers (x5) <Lucius>

Triple Knight Crusaders is where it's at. Who cares that Castellans got nerfed? Tournament players will always gravitate to the next thing on the list. Throw in a Lucius unit for a late-game teleport to grab an Objective and you're good to go.

Spoiler: Genestealer Cults

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Genestealer Cults, Battalion
(W) Patriarch; Mass Hypnosis, Psychic Stimulus, Single-Minded Obsession <Twisted Helix>
Magus; Familiar, The Crouchling, Might From Beyond, Mass Hypnosis, Psychic Stimulus <Four-Armed Emperor>

Brood Brothers Infantry Squad
Brood Brothers Infantry Squad
Brood Brothers Infantry Squad

Kelermorph <Four-Armed Emperor>

Twisted Helix, Battalion, Annointed Throng
Abominant
Primus; Bonesword

Brood Brothers Infantry Squad
Brood Brothers Infantry Squad
Brood Brothers Infantry Squad

Aberrants (x10); Power Picks (x8), Heavy Improvised Weapons (x2)
Aberrants (x10); Power Picks (x8), Heavy Improvised Weapons (x2)
Aberrants (x10); Power Picks (x8), Heavy Improvised Weapons (x2)

Twisted Helix, Battalion
Primus; Bonesword
Acolyte Iconward

Brood Brothers Infantry Squad
Brood Brothers Infantry Squad
Acolyte Hybrids (x19); Demolition Charges (x5), Hand Flamers (x19), Cult Icon

Nexos
Clamavus
Biophagus

It's not Guard 'cause we said it's not Guard.
30 Abberants will make you cry. Almost as much as 80 Hybrids would.

Spoiler: Orks

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Deathskulls, Battalion, Dread Waaagh!
(W) Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun; Grot Oiler, Big Killa Boss, Da Souped-Up Shokka
Weirdboy; Da Jump

Gretchin (x10)
Gretchin (x10)
Gretchin (x10)

Mek Gunz; Smasha Guns (x6)
Mek Gunz; Smasha Guns (x6)
Mek Gunz; Smasha Guns (x5)

Bad Moons, Battalion
Weirdboy; Da Jump
Weirdboy; Fists of Gork

Boyz (x30); Shootas, Tankbusta Bombs (x3), Choppas (x2)
Boyz (x10); Shootas, Tankbusta Bombs (x1), Choppas (x2)
Boyz (x10); Shootas, Tankbusta Bombs (x1), Choppas (x2)

Evil Suns, Battalion
Warboss; Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw, Attack Squig
Warboss; Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw, Attack Squig

Boyz (x29); Shootas, Tankbusta Bombs (x2), Choppas (x2)
Boyz (x29); Shootas, Tankbusta Bombs (x2), Choppas (x2)
Boyz (x28); Shootas, Tankbusta Bombs (x2), Choppas (x2)

That's a lot of Boyz... Still no Dreads in a Dread Waaagh! though.

Spoiler: T'au

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T'au, Spearhead
Fireblade; Markerlight, Through Unity, Devastation, PENchip

Broadsides (x3); High-Yield Missile Pods (x6), Seeker Missiles (x3), Smart Missile Systems (x6), Drone Controller, Velocity Trackers (x2)
+ Shield Drones (x5)

Broadsides (x3); High-Yield Missile Pods (x6), Seeker Missiles (x3), Smart Missile Systems (x6), Velocity Trackers (x3)
+ Shield Drones (x5)

Broadsides (x3); High-Yield Missile Pods (x6), Seeker Missiles (x3), Smart Missile Systems (x6), Velocity Trackers (x3)
+ Shield Drones (x5)

T'au, Outrider
Shadowsun

Drones; Shield Drones (x4), Gun Drones (x6)
Drones; Shield Drones (x4), Gun Drones (x6)
Drones; Shield Drones (x4), Gun Drones (x6)

T'au, Vanguard
Ethereal

Dahyak Grekh
Firesight Marksman; Markerlight, Pulse Pistol
Firesight Marksman; Markerlight, Pulse Pistol

Pathfinders (x5)
+ Shield Drones (x2)
+ Pulse Accelerator Drone
+ Grav-Inhibitor Drone
+ Recon Drone

Pathfinders (x5)
+ Shield Drones (x2)
+ Pulse Accelerator Drone
+ Grav-Inhibitor Drone
+ Recon Drone

ION:
Will now start reading my stuff. On first read-through, White Scars look pretty decent. But I wasn't looking too hard and was very distracted reading in the store with people looking over my shoulder.