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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    I'd also imagine that anyone willing to travel to the sort of tournament where you'd hear about that happening is also serious enough to read the english books and check, definitely in the case of a lynchpin strategy like teleporting a knight.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    I'm curious - can you translate more or less what the Spanish version says for us, please? While I appreciate that nuances can be different from region to region, if the language actually changes the rule then I'll be quite amazed that international tournaments aren't more argumentative.

    I know English-speaking tournaments insist on English-language books, but I'd have thought we'd have heard more stories about people turning up and going, "What, what? That's not what *my* books says!"
    I’d assume the standard rule is ‘English version overrides’. Translation in general is a really interesting problem for games designers though: they touched on it in a recent Stormcast interviewing one of the people who work on page layouts for GW. When laying out the book, they need to leave space so that wordier languages still fit when put in place. They also mentioned the problem of translaters who don’t understand the game, so miss the nuances of the rules (I think they said they’ve been working on improving this lately, and giving the translaters the rules earlier). It’s a great example of a ‘hidden’ time constraint on putting out new material for a game.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Quote Originally Posted by Avaris View Post
    I’d assume the standard rule is ‘English version overrides’.
    I can imagine that to be true... But then, I am English, GW are an English company and I speak only English so it's easy for me to make that assumption.

    LansXero is clearly bilingual and extremely fluent, however - he hangs out with us and uses our weird contractions, acronyms and other idioms better than some monolingual people I know - as are several other people in the thread. I'm genuinely interested in how you guys feel about being told that your book in your native language is "second class" to another, nominally identical, one that you might be physically unable to get hold of?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeSwordfish View Post
    I'd also imagine that anyone willing to travel to the sort of tournament where you'd hear about that happening is also serious enough to read the english books and check, definitely in the case of a lynchpin strategy like teleporting a knight.
    Remember Andrew Gonyo? He went to Adepticon 2019 and made it into the top 16 at place #1 with his Flesh Tearers list... With a <Blood Angels Only> Relic. Because he "misread his codex" and the rules for successor chapters were "unclear".

    I admit, a bit of a biased argument from me as the wider controversy is that Gonyo was probably cheating on purpose. Still, if his 'plausible argument' is that he went to Adepticon and could claim to have misread his book, I feel that someone reading a mistranslated book and then switching to their second language is also a plausible reason for mistakes.
    Last edited by Wraith; 2019-08-21 at 04:55 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    I can imagine that to be true... But then, I am English, GW are an English company and I speak only English so it's easy for me to make that assumption.
    To be clear, not saying this is the right approach to take! But when it comes to RAW, it is presumably the rule that GW intends? I’m not sure they’ve written it down anywhere though? (Unlike, say, MtG, which is explicit on the rule that applies).

    It’s linked to the wider problem of, historically at least, I don’t think GW has thought too much about the wording of the rules. Coming up with a flavourful rule is a different skill to making that rule clear and useable in game. In AoS they have a standard set of wording applied to all rules of a similar nature, so it’s a thing being thought about by some at least.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Presumably a significant part of the solution is for them to get the consistent wording document they have internally (for AOS at least) translated to a good standard, and that will cover most of the situations.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    I can imagine that to be true... But then, I am English, GW are an English company and I speak only English so it's easy for me to make that assumption.

    LansXero is clearly bilingual and extremely fluent, however - he hangs out with us and uses our weird contractions, acronyms and other idioms better than some monolingual people I know - as are several other people in the thread. I'm genuinely interested in how you guys feel about being told that your book in your native language is "second class" to another, nominally identical, one that you might be physically unable to get hold of?
    Spanish codices are cheaper because they're also missing several pages, mostly fluff and stuff. They also are usually softback.

    The rule in spanish is 'Una unidad de tu ejercito'. It doesnt specify the Lucius keyword, which is where the confusion comes from. Probably due to space constraints.

    This is a new-ish guy who's branching into AdMech since their aesthetic 'fits' more with giant robots for him than a bunch of guards do. Of course, its still mostly as CP fodder, but as mentioned before we are competitive, yet still try to fit in fluff / flavor to an extent. Question came as preparation for the doubles tournament this weekend, since like I also mentioned before we all prefer to ask and check online instead of assuming and messing things at the table. He's using the spanish version because, as I also mentioned before, we are a poor country and the codex was cheaper and also its all he has. For the few people here who'd buy books instead of downloading and printing them, Im not about to suggest him to go to VK / other such sites and download the english version xD.

    Now, if only BattleScribe would include stratagems... Time to order him some AdMech datacards! :D

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Am I right in thinking that Primaris Marines are scaled so that you can use tactical marine arms? I'm tempted to try and run an all-primaris update to my Fire Hawks, but since i'm not much of a fan of the Reiver models i'm wondering if I can just use the rules for them and make an Assault Intercessor unit with assault marine arms. Reiver combat blades are the same as Chainswords, and if I don't run any oldmarines then the difference between Bolt Pistols and Heavy Bolt Pistols is pretty academic.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Quote Originally Posted by LeSwordfish View Post
    Am I right in thinking that Primaris Marines are scaled so that you can use tactical marine arms?
    As long as they don't 'cross the body', I think they look okay. The torso of a Primaris Marine is slightly wider than a normal Marine, so 'two-handed' weapons sometimes often have problems fitting correctly. However with a bit of cutting and a decent positioning of pauldrons, you can sometimes get away with it.

    The only ones that look bad - IMO - are Power Fists. They don't look right at all. But, since you're making Reivers, that shouldn't be a problem.

    i'm wondering if I can just use the rules for them and make an Assault Intercessor unit with assault marine arms.
    Took a look to see if it's been done.

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    ...You can see an issue with that Flamer model in the right pauldron where the two-handed arms aren't quite fitting to the torso. But if your plan is to make Reivers, that shouldn't be a problem.

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    Here you can see where the left pauldrons have been glued slightly too far forwards. From over 30cms away, you probably wouldn't even be able to tell. But since no-one takes photos of models 30< cms away, it sticks out...Especially if you've been gluing GKs together really recently so you know what it's supposed to look like. But the guy in the front looks fine because his arms aren't trying to cross his chest.

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    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2019-08-21 at 10:32 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Quote Originally Posted by LeSwordfish View Post
    Am I right in thinking that Primaris Marines are scaled so that you can use tactical marine arms? I'm tempted to try and run an all-primaris update to my Fire Hawks, but since i'm not much of a fan of the Reiver models i'm wondering if I can just use the rules for them and make an Assault Intercessor unit with assault marine arms. Reiver combat blades are the same as Chainswords, and if I don't run any oldmarines then the difference between Bolt Pistols and Heavy Bolt Pistols is pretty academic.
    There is definitely a slight difference, although confirming that definitively took several minutes of digging through my bits box to find numarine and oldmarine arms in the same pose, so it's not that noticable. You could probably still pull it off as long as its not a two handed grip, but I might consider handswaps instead if you can.
    Last edited by Squark; 2019-08-21 at 10:44 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    The rule in spanish is 'Una unidad de tu ejercito'. It doesnt specify the Lucius keyword, which is where the confusion comes from. Probably due to space constraints.
    "A unit in your army". Jesus H. Christ, that's.... never mind <Lucius>, that just completely ignores Detachment and Faction, too. It's not even a slight discrepancy, it changes the way army building works...
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    "A unit in your army". Jesus H. Christ, that's.... never mind <Lucius>, that just completely ignores Detachment and Faction, too. It's not even a slight discrepancy, it changes the way army building works...
    Well, yeah. The player came to me and went 'this is way broke, are you sure it works this way?'. Then again, the [Lucius] tag already includes faction and its limited to actual AdMech units, so no Knights; it wouldnt've made sense to include any more specifications if the tag were already there.
    Last edited by LansXero; 2019-08-21 at 12:20 PM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    Spanish codices are cheaper because they're also missing several pages, mostly fluff and stuff. They also are usually softback.

    The rule in spanish is 'Una unidad de tu ejercito'. It doesnt specify the Lucius keyword, which is where the confusion comes from. Probably due to space constraints.

    This is a new-ish guy who's branching into AdMech since their aesthetic 'fits' more with giant robots for him than a bunch of guards do. Of course, its still mostly as CP fodder, but as mentioned before we are competitive, yet still try to fit in fluff / flavor to an extent. Question came as preparation for the doubles tournament this weekend, since like I also mentioned before we all prefer to ask and check online instead of assuming and messing things at the table. He's using the spanish version because, as I also mentioned before, we are a poor country and the codex was cheaper and also its all he has. For the few people here who'd buy books instead of downloading and printing them, Im not about to suggest him to go to VK / other such sites and download the english version xD.

    Now, if only BattleScribe would include stratagems... Time to order him some AdMech datacards! :D
    Ad Mech is a good choice. Stygies being the best and Lucius being solid for a pocket detachment. Though since he was thinking about Teleporting a night I'm gonna assume that he has a solid grasp of that already.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    "A unit in your army". Jesus H. Christ... It's not even a slight discrepancy, it changes the way army building works...
    Holy [poop]. There's translation errors, and then there's literally removing words from the sentence. That's a whole different thing and I absolutely take back my 'how is this not obvious' comment.

    I just don't understand how a bolded proper noun Keyword gets removed.

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    Well, yeah. The player came to me and went 'this is way broke, are you sure it works this way?'..
    Holy [poop] again. Fair play to the guy, instead of abusing the **** out of it and claiming he was playing by the rules, he actually went to the TO to get clarification before he did whatever he wanted. Seriously. If he played that in a tournament, someone said 'bull****' and then he whipped out his Codex and the wording was exactly how you say it is...What could you do?
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2019-08-21 at 09:36 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Holy [poop]. There's translation errors, and then there's literally removing words from the sentence. That's a whole different thing and I absolutely take back my 'how is this not obvious' comment.

    I just don't understand how a bolded proper noun Keyword gets removed.



    Holy [poop] again. Fair play to the guy, instead of abusing the **** out of it and claiming he was playing by the rules, he actually went to the TO to get clarification before he did whatever he wanted. Seriously. If he played that in a tournament, someone said 'bull****' and then he whipped out his Codex and the wording was exactly how you say it is...What could you do?
    Nothing at all, since I sold him the thing and I can either admit to selling faulty goods, and he'll be rightfully pissed, or let him play it that way, and his oponent will be rightfully pissed. This is why we have FB chats though, precisely to prevent the bad stuff from reaching the table. This is also why its always so surprising to me that people actually pack stuff and show up to play completely clueless. As for fair play, 'competitive' means you want to win 'cause you're good, not because you snuck in a cheat without the other guy realizing it. And we're pretty used to spanish translations being crap (Spain should move to portuguese or something and stop messing our language. We latins outnumber them like 20:1, and yet they make the rules? get bent) and text omissions / adaptations changing rules. It used to be the same for Magic (but they've gotten much better with time) and its still the same for YuGiOh (which is already a wordy game in english, so spanish translations can only make the font so small before they need to nip stuff).

    For example, Ringmail Vest is 'Chaleco de cota de mallas de anillos'. Composite words, which are very popular in english and japanese (which are the original languages for most if not all card games) are horrible to translate, as they become very long. Now, if the rules text references the card name a couple of times....

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    For example, Ringmail Vest is 'Chaleco de cota de mallas de anillos'.
    That's not really what I'm worried about - though I can see how that's really annoying.

    My point is:
    a) <Lucius> is in a different typeface (hey, a composite word), it's pretty hard to miss, even if you're a translator, and
    b) Lucius, is a proper noun. Regardless of the language you're speaking, that's what you'd call it - the only difference is pronunciation, but, text doesn't have an accent.

    Why would you remove the word completely? It just doesn't make sense.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    That's not really what I'm worried about - though I can see how that's really annoying.

    My point is:
    a) <Lucius> is in a different typeface (hey, a composite word), it's pretty hard to miss, even if you're a translator, and
    b) Lucius, is a proper noun. Regardless of the language you're speaking, that's what you'd call it - the only difference is pronunciation, but, text doesn't have an accent.

    Why would you remove the word completely? It just doesn't make sense.
    I suspect it’s an example of a translator being given the task without any understanding of what the rules mean? Perhaps they thought that the inclusion of ‘Lucius’ in the stratagem’s heading was sufficient, and this was redundant. But if looking for a place to save on words, which they need to do in order to fit things in given the lack of composite words, dropping this sort of thing makes some sense if you don’t understand the game fully, or if it applying to Lucius units seems obvious to them from the context.

    Ultimately, this is just another reason why GW should make the rules freely/cheaply available in a form that can be easily updated and that isn’t limited by page constraints.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    So, I decided to do some quizzes since I was curious about which army I should really play. Curiously, all quizzes point towards the Eldar, some of the deeper quizzes all point to Craftworld Alaitoc as my best match. Now that I'm curious about starting Eldar, I'm not sure where to start.

    I figure the Start Collecting is as good a place as any, specially with that Wraithlord. Even got what weapons to give the models planned, and plans to just pin the heavy weapons and not glue them.

    Once I have that start, I'm considering prioritizing units that can be used in kill-team. Rangers and Dire Avengers early on, then maybe some Howling Banshees (who doesn't love them) and Striking Scorpions, as well as a Warlock maybe for that 2nd in command. Given Alaitoc's use of rangers, as well as more than average exarchs among the aspect warriors, my idea for Kill Team is to have DA, HB and SS exarchs together with a team of rangers providing cover.

    After that, really depends on how I'm going with them. Do you think this is a solid plan of attack to start a new army + kill-team?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    So, one issue you can run into when collecting for both kill team and regular 40k is wargear composition- A unit of wraithguard has to be homogeneous in 40k as I understand, but a kill team roster is probably going to want a range of wargear options- you might even want to assemble a mix of wraithguard and wraithblades. The good news is that wraithguard/blades are the only Craftworld unit with this issue, at least. Pinning/Magnetizing should alleviate issues, but the kit doesn't look as magnetization friendly as, say, Space Marines, who have a huge flat surface where the arm meets the torso that's perfect for 2 magnets.

    As far as your base kill team idea... It's certainly fluffy, but I worry that with the Howling Banshee and Striking Scorpion Exarchs as your only source of multi-damage weapons, you'll struggle to get out of action results. Replacing some Rangers with a guardian heavy weapons team or a wraithguard might be advisable.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollysword View Post
    So, I decided to do some quizzes since I was curious about which army I should really play. Curiously, all quizzes point towards the Eldar, some of the deeper quizzes all point to Craftworld Alaitoc as my best match. Now that I'm curious about starting Eldar, I'm not sure where to start.

    I figure the Start Collecting is as good a place as any, specially with that Wraithlord. Even got what weapons to give the models planned, and plans to just pin the heavy weapons and not glue them.

    Once I have that start, I'm considering prioritizing units that can be used in kill-team. Rangers and Dire Avengers early on, then maybe some Howling Banshees (who doesn't love them) and Striking Scorpions, as well as a Warlock maybe for that 2nd in command. Given Alaitoc's use of rangers, as well as more than average exarchs among the aspect warriors, my idea for Kill Team is to have DA, HB and SS exarchs together with a team of rangers providing cover.

    After that, really depends on how I'm going with them. Do you think this is a solid plan of attack to start a new army + kill-team?
    While the Wraithblades can be solid, on a very niche build, and the Farseer is a staple of the faction, the rest of the start collecting box is subpar and not very good.

    Eldar lists currently focus on either Crimson Hunters, Wave Serpents or Dark Reapers. Of course, if performance isnt an issue then go ahead and buy whatever. Rangers are pretty solid for troops, but Guardians can be really good too, depending on how you want to cap those objectives. Will you be playing Eternal War, Maelstrom or narrative?

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    If I have to, I can always get a 2nd unit of Wraithguard and give them the other weapon option. I'm surprised the Wraithlord isn't that popular anymore though. For the most part, I haven't even planned for points matches, just play with whatever looks cool, using power levels as a guide.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollysword View Post
    So, I decided to do some quizzes since I was curious about which army I should really play. Curiously, all quizzes point towards the Eldar, some of the deeper quizzes all point to Craftworld Alaitoc as my best match.
    Which quizzes are these?

    Now that I'm curious about starting Eldar, I'm not sure where to start.
    Almost always, the answer is to start with a Start Collecting! box. Unfortunately, Eldar is one of the cases where it isn't. But, overall, if you're looking to rack up a lot of points for as few currency as possible, then sure, a bunch of Wraithguard and Wraithlord for a discounted price will do it.

    But, for the most part, do you know what other people around you are running? And do you have a vague idea of what is literally in their lists? If you just want to buy models that look cool, then yes, I agree - the Wraithlord is very cool. If you want to spend hundreds of currency and also don't want to lose games, we're going to have a very different conversation. But for now, I have to assume that you want the Wraithguard, and you want the Wraithlord.

    ...This is where pigeon-holing yourself as an Alaitoc player will get you in trouble, because the Start Collecting! box is not helpful to an Alaitoc player. The box strongly leads towards Iyanden (because <Wraith Constructs>) or Ulthwé - for handing out Ignore Wounds (6+) to the toughest models in your Codex. At the very outside, you might also consider Saim-Hann for the re-rolls to Charges, especially if you're interested in Wraithblades and Webway Strikes. But, at the end of the day definitely not Alaitoc.

    Now, yes, Alaitoc is arguably the most competitive <Craftworld> to choose. But I've seen several Iyanden and Ulthwé lists do well, too. If you're looking to win at least 50% of your games, there's nothing wrong with Iyanden or Ulthwé... Especially, y'know...If Wraithlords appeal to you...

    I figure the Start Collecting is as good a place as any, specially with that Wraithlord.
    ...Which apparently, they do.

    After that, really depends on how I'm going with them. Do you think this is a solid plan of attack to start a new army + kill-team?
    All Craftworlds' Troops are equal. They're all as good - or as bad, depending on your viewpoint - as each other. Fortunately, they all come at the same price point. So, whatever Troops you choose, that's the right answer:
    - Guardians (both kinds) are fairly weak. But they can come in squads of 20. And if we know anything about 40K, coming in squads of 20 is a strength all on its own.
    - Dire Avengers can move around the board and have decent firepower. But, they're more expensive than other choices. But it's okay, 'cause the math checks out.
    - Rangers are absolutely reliant on Cover being available to them. This means that they're very static and don't move around a whole lot - which makes it the ITC Troop-of-choice...Generally. Even if you're not playing ITC, it's always worth picking up at least one unit of Rangers to, well, snipe Characters if possible.

    From there, it really depends on what you want to do, and what your opponents are running.

    Striking Scorpions are going to make you sad. S4, AP- is not a thing. Howling Banshees are vastly superior due to Webway Strike and the fact that they get +3 to Charge rolls, and your opponent can't Overwatch. Now, if you go Biel-Tan, you can do a similar thing with Striking Scorpions (with S4, AP-), but if you're Biel-Tan, Banshees will have +5 to their Charge...And your opponent still can't Overwatch. Overall, Striking Scorpions are not good. A classic case of a unit not doing what it says on the tin - LansXero would phrase that a different way, which may or may not become the next thread title.

    Wraithblades have vastly fallen out of favour due to Quicken not being castable out of Reinforcements. Saim-Hann Wraithblades still exist, but if you're playing Saim-Hann, you could also be running Shining Spears for better. That being said, Wraithguard do make people sad out of a Webway Strike, since every model in the unit carries a Lascannon+, which may make your opponents sad. But unless your opponent is running the triple Lord Discordant Daemon Engine Circus...Or Guard...it's unlikely you're going to find a use for that many Lascannons. That being said, if you do have a use for that many Lascannons, running them without a Spiritseer is pretty sad.
    (Space Marines might end up using Vehicles a whole lot, depends how the FAQ shakes out)

    Mostly, I want to get it across that the Start Collecting! box doesn't sound like what you want. Or, perhaps more accurately, 'Alaitoc Wraith Constructs' isn't a particularly viable build, and you kind of need to pick one or the other. Alaitoc is viable. Wraith Constructs are viable...But not together. That being said, you can run multiple Detachments of different Craftworlds that all go well to their own strengths. But those choices will become clearer when you've played a few games and built up your collection.

    Alternatively, if your concept of 'Alaitoc Wraith Constructs' is 'Triple Hemlocks', then we'll be getting somewhere. But, somehow, I don't think that's the direction you were going for.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2019-08-22 at 08:46 PM.
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  22. - Top - End - #1402
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    IF wraith constructs is what you want to do, then maybe this would be an option?

    https://www.games-workshop.com/en-WW...etachment-2019

    Do note that unlike the Guard or IK detachments, this is still available, so that should tell you how popular it is.

    Now, I've had moderate success running Alaitoc Wraithblades because a -1 to be hit, 2+/3++/5+++ brick with Toughness 6 and 3 wounds (through a huge investment of psychic powers and CPs, mind you) packing a metric ton of attacks is something most people can't handle WHEN backed by Crimson Hunters and Dark Reapers. They are SLOW, so not something you can just throw at anyone, but low mobility armies like Guard will be either missing the actual core of your army, or plinking away at an undying mass of melee attacks. I've never tried a full wraith army though, so not sure how it stacks up.

    Aside from Cheese's advice about know what faction you'll face, knowing the format thats most played around you is key. 'just put down whatever with power level' is a format Ive never read about or seen beyond theoretical exercises on how to break it, so it would be great to check local fanpages / FB groups / etc. to see what your local scene is like.
    Last edited by LansXero; 2019-08-22 at 08:47 PM.

  23. - Top - End - #1403
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    'just put down whatever with power level' is a format Ive never read about...
    It's called 'Open Play', it's a really weird format. But, because there are so few rules to remember, it means you can get drunk while you play. It's pretty popular.
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  24. - Top - End - #1404
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollysword View Post
    So, I decided to do some quizzes since I was curious about which army I should really play. Curiously, all quizzes point towards the Eldar, some of the deeper quizzes all point to Craftworld Alaitoc as my best match. Now that I'm curious about starting Eldar, I'm not sure where to start.

    I figure the Start Collecting is as good a place as any, specially with that Wraithlord. Even got what weapons to give the models planned, and plans to just pin the heavy weapons and not glue them.

    Once I have that start, I'm considering prioritizing units that can be used in kill-team. Rangers and Dire Avengers early on, then maybe some Howling Banshees (who doesn't love them) and Striking Scorpions, as well as a Warlock maybe for that 2nd in command. Given Alaitoc's use of rangers, as well as more than average exarchs among the aspect warriors, my idea for Kill Team is to have DA, HB and SS exarchs together with a team of rangers providing cover.

    After that, really depends on how I'm going with them. Do you think this is a solid plan of attack to start a new army + kill-team?
    Well here is a guide I wrote up for Eldar a while ago. It's a little out of date but still mostly good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    Guide to Craftworld Eldar
    It's so funny that you think your opinion matters to me,
    --Prince Yriel

    Spoiler: Special Rules, Warlord Traits, Relics, and Powers
    Show
    Ancient Doom: Reroll to hit Slaanash on the first turn of combat, add 1 to morale tests if within 3 inches. Maybe it'll come up someday.

    Battle Focus: You don't take the penalty to advance and fire, unless it's a heavy weapon. You will pretty much do this every turn unless you're about to charge. Effectively makes most of your army have a move of 7+D6 or a flat 22 for Jetbikes.

    The Path of Command: Reroll 1s near an Autarch. If he's your Warlord, get Command Points back on a 6. If you're taking an Autarch, make him your Warlord.

    Path of War Objective Secured: Yes, Eldar have it too.

    Heroes of Legend: Phoenix Lords don't get Craftworld traits, but they don't cause you to lose it either.

    Bladestorm: Technically not a universal rule, but it's common enough I'm talking about it here. On all shurikan weapons, you get a -3 to AP on a 6 to wound. Incredible and it makes Shurikan anything your go to gun. If the gun doesn't have this rule, then it better have a similar AP or just a lot of damage to begin with.

    Warlord Traits:

    Ambush of Blades: On a 6 to hit, in the Fight Phase, when near your Autarch, your AP increases by 1. Alright, but fight phase only makes it weak.

    Eye On Distant Events: Your Warlord can't be Overwatch'd. Nice to negate Overwatch so squishy units can get in freely.

    Falcon's Swiftness: Add 2 to your move value. If you're running an Avatar as your Warlord, you likely want this one. Otherwise,
    it's nice to make sure your buffs are always where they need to be.

    Fate's Messenger: +1 wounds, ignore damage on 6. You've seen it before, it's always solid.

    Mark of the Incomparable Hunter: Your warlord can target characters directly. A shame you can't give your warlord a decent gun. So pretty much useless.

    Seer of the Shifting Vector: Once per round, reroll a single roll for your warlord (except advancing). Good for Farseers, since it works on Deny as well, and otherwise decent if you are playing risky with your Warlord. If your Warlord is a buff bot, give it a pass.

    Faction Warlord Traits
    Alaitoc: Fearless within 6 of your Warlord. Absolutely amazing for Alaitoc which wants to be running a lot of low morale Rangers, and has no morale mitigation outside of an Avatar.
    Biel-Tan: Give one unit within 3 inches reroll to hit in the shooting phase. Pretty good, but an Autarch's reroll 1s is almost the same,
    except when it isn't.
    Iyanden: One more Deny roll per phase. How many Farseers and Warlocks are you running? Will you actually use it? Because if you do, it's great, but otherwise it's useless.
    Saim-Hann: You can heroically intervene towards characters. If you get in combat add 1 to the amount of attacks if you put everything against that character. This is almost impossible to activate, and the bonus is really minor. Because you can get +1 attacks all of the time, from the rulebooks Warlord traits. Never take this.
    Ulthwe: Roll a dice every turn (yours and your opponents), on a 6 gain a Command Point. Eh, not bad if your Warlord doesn't need to do anything.

    Craftworld Traits
    Alaitoc: AKA the best one. -1 to hit at 12+ inches. It also stacks with other penalties, so have fun with a Hemlock that's -2 to be hit. Or just a bunch of Rangers at -2.
    Biel-Tan: +1 LD for all Aspect Warriors. Also reroll 1s for Shurikan Weapons. Absolutely incredible for Jetbike units, Dire Avengers, and Guardians. Kinda crap for most Aspect Warriors since they already had a small unit size and really good LD. And Biel-Tan want to take an Avatar anyways.
    Iyanden: You can only ever lose 1 model to Morale. And you count as double the wounds for degredation of vehicles. Another amazing trait, it lets you spam large Guardian squads with impunity, and take as many Wraithlords and Wraithknights as your twisted little heart desires. Particularly Wraithlords who will only degrade when they've got 2 wounds remaining.
    Saim-Hann: Reroll charges and Jetbikes can move and fire Heavy Weapons without penalty. The Scatbike is back! Kinda. Shurikan Cannons are still better. And the bonus is better for Footdar who have more distance to travel anyways. Or for Webway Assault.
    Ulthwe: Ignore damage on a 6. This stacks with nothing, so if you've got Fortune, another ability, or a warlord trait, this becomes useless. This is alright. Extra surviveability is always nice, but there are lots of stuff in the book that can get you the same bonus and since they don't stack, this is only good on stuff you expect to die, which benefits more from one of the other traits.

    Remnants of Glory:
    Kurnous Bow: A super shurikan pistol. Mostly garbage cause you can get something better then a shurikan pistol, even a super one.
    The Phoenix Gem: When you die, inflict D3 mortal wounds on each unit (friend and foe) within 3 inches on a 2+ (roll for each unit). f at least one mortal wound if inflicted, you stand back up with one wound. One use only. A fun little suicide bomb, but not very optimal.
    Shard of Anaris: Powersword with reroll to wound and D3 damage. Pretty decent, but a Laser Lance comparable and not a relic.
    Faolchu's Wing: Make an infantry model fly and have a movement of 12. Or just take a Jetbike for more move, an extra toughness and an extra wound and just take a better relic instead.
    Firesabre: The other super power sword. +1 S and -4 AP is nice, and causes an additional mortal wound on 6s. It's mediocre but alright.
    Blazing Star Of Vaul: Gain 2 shots on a shurikan pistol or catapult. What did I just say about taking a weapon that's better then shurikan pistol? Bringing a Jetbike up to 6 shots isn't awful at least.
    Shimmerplume of Achillrial: Autarch only. -1 to hit said Autarch. Very solid for any Autarch, particularly if they are your warlord.
    The Spirit Stone of Anath'lan: Biel-Tan only. Reroll failed psychic tests, but if you fail the reroll you can't cast any more powers that phase. Wow, how the mighty have fallen. This artifact used to be always taken, and now it's garbage. Farseers already get one reroll free, and it doesn't cost them their remaining powers on a fail. You can take this on a Warlock if you really want to get a power off, but I'm leery of that. Still it's something.
    The Burnished Blade of Eliarna: Biel-Tan only. Powersword with 2 damage. Against Orks get +1 Strength and Damage. Meh, the Firesabre or Shard of Anaris is better.
    Shiftshroud of Alanssair: Alaitoc infantry only. So no Jetbikes sadly. -1 to hit this model and they can SUA. The best relic for the best faction. Because it stacks so you have a -2 to hit their Warlord.
    Psytronome of Iyaden: Iyanden only. Duh. One use only, double the attacks of all wraith constructs within 6 inches of this model. In return all wraith constructs within 6 take D3 mortal wounds at the end of the fight phase. Absolutely incredible, and great for Wraithblades, Wraithlords, and particularly Wraithknights. It has to be taken on a psyker, but put this on a Farseer with a Jetbike. Then with good positioning and timing you can deliver some massive hurt on anything in the game.
    The Novalance of Saim-Hann: Saim-Hann only. The laser lance to end all laser lances, this puts you at a base strength of 5 off the charge. On the charge you're strength 8. It shoots at strength 6, just to be weird. But if that's not enough for you, then on a 6 to wound you deal double damage. Empower someone with this baby, and go character hunting.

    Runes of Battle
    All Warlock powers have 2 forms, and you can cast both forms in the same phase. They also all have an 18 inch range. They only work on Infantry or Jetbikes, so no buffing vehicles or monsters I'm afraid. Most of these powers are Warp Charge 7 with some being 6.

    Conceal/Reveal:Conceal to -1 to hit. Reveal to deny cover to one enemy. You will never, ever use reveal. Ever. Conceal is amazing, but most importantly, you cannot use it on Hemlocks! You used to be able to, but now you can't. So be sure to catch that! Also is warp charge 6.
    Embolden/Horrify: Embolden to add 2 to leadership or Horrify to -1 to enemy leadership. Embolden is useless because you already have amazing LD and a bunch of other ways to ignore morale. Horrify is alright, and at least combos with Mind War. Warp Charge 6.
    Enhance/Drain: Add 1 for your unit to hit, or -1 to the enemy unit in the Fight Phase. Pretty decent and solid. Nice to toss on Scorpions if you can.
    Protect/Jinx: +1 to all your saves, or -1 to all your enemy saves. Yes, ALL SAVES. So you can lower the enemies invulnerable save or buff your own. Absolutely amazing at all times.
    Quicken/Restrain: You can either take another movement phase, and it says move as if it was the movement phase, so you can Advance as well. Or restrain to half their movement. Most of the time you'll want Quicken, but Restraining something like Nurgle Terminators is hilarious.
    Empower/Enervate: +1 to wound in the fight phase, or -1 to for the enemy unit to wound you in the fight phase. Pretty good and always useful for melee units. Warp Charge 6.

    Runes of Fate:
    Unlike Runes of Battle, these powers can effect any kind of unit, regardless of type. With an exception of Mind War. Most of them are Warp Charge 7, except for Will of Asuryan which is 5.

    Guide: Reroll all misses in the Shooting Phase. Solid, and you know it.
    Doom: Reroll all wounds on enemy unit til the next psychic phase. It's better then Guide in every way, particularly since more rerolls equals more Bladestorms.
    Fortune: Ignore damage on a 5+, but it doesn't stack with anything. Pretty decent regardless, and your go to source of FNP. Toss it on anything you really don't want to die.
    Executioner: Super Smite. Kill something with the first D3 mortal wounds, and inflict another D3. Casts on a 7, but worth it.
    Will of Asuryan: Auto pass Morale within 6 inches of the Farseer. Yawn. But more importantly, it also gives you +1 to Deny for the next Psychic phase. Very helpful in combating smite spam. Remember your Farseer gets a reroll in the enemy Psychic phase as well.
    Mind War: It hasn't changed. Snipe characters with it, and inflict mortal wounds for every point you beat their LD+D6 by. It's alright, but hard to use on anything important. It can combo with Horrify, Hemlocks and whatever else can lower LD though. Getting a -2 or -3 is very possible if you build for it and take allies.


    Spoiler: Stratagems
    Show
    Matchless Agility: Advance 6 instead of rolling for it. Occasionally very useful when you absolutely need that extra distance. It happens more then you think.
    Celestial Shield: Give a unit of Guardians a 4+ invulnerable save for the shooting phase. Remember, it stacks with Protect, so you can make a very durable unit by using this stratagem.
    Cloudstrike: Can't be used if Webway Assault has been used. SUA any vehicle that can fly. Keep your Falcons and Wave Serpents safe, and ensure they get their passengers to their targets without fail. Pretty nice.
    Treasures of the Craftworld: Take an extra relic. It's alright, but most relics aren't that great. Make opponents cry by taking a Shimmerplume and a Shroudshift so they can't hit any of your characters. Remember you can't put them on the same person though.
    Forewarned: If an allied unit is within 6 inches of a Farseer, and can see a unit SUA in, they can shoot them as if it's the shooting phase. Absolutely fantastic against any SUA unit. Just position a shooty unit so it has good LoS, and is near a Farseer and you're good to go.
    The Great Enemy: Reroll to wound in the Fight phase against a Slaanesh unit. K.
    Concordance of Power: Double the range when a Warlock Conclave manifests a power. Wow, that was almost good. Instead kinda trash because the Warlock Conclave is bad. More on that later.
    Unparalleled Mastery: If you successfully cast your last power, you can cast one more power. Sometimes you just gotta smite, but you also want to do more stuff. It's useful occasionally.
    Feigned Retreat: Fall back, shoot and charge. Very nice. 2 CP though, and it is kinda niche, since a lot of stuff won't actually survive to Fall Back, or it already has the Fly rule. Amazing for Shining Spears though.
    Linked Fire: Declare a target for one Fire Prism. Then every other Fire Prism can target that unit (even if they don't have range or LoS!), and they get to reroll to hit and to wound. Then so long as one other Fire Prism targeted that unit, the first one also gets to reroll to hit and to wound. If you have a Fire Prism, you should have two. And then alpha strike something important with this stratagem. It's only 1 CP. Do it. If they don't kill your Fire Prisms, then do it again. It's good enough that you do it every turn until you only have one Fire Prism or run out of CPs.
    Lightning Fast Reactions: -1 to hit an infantry unit or something with fly for that phase. What's that? It also stacks with Alaitoc? Why it's almost like they are the best Craftworld! It happens after they declare their target as well, so you can really shut down some heavy weapon fire, or punish them for declaring an overcharge.
    Supreme Disdain: I love that name. Oh, and it generates an extra attack on 6s to hit in the Fight Phase. Combo with Enhance, it's alright.
    Webway Strike: In deployment make one infantry or Jetbike unit SUA. Pay 3 CP to make two units SUA instead. Very very good, and works for too many units to go over now.
    Overloaded Energy Projectors: Discharge your Serpent Shields again. For 1 CP? Do it. 1 CP for an additional D3 mortal wounds is almost always worth it.
    Starhawk Missile: An Eldar Missile Launcher gets +1 to hit a unit with Fly and inflicts D3 mortal wounds on a hit. It's decent but Eldar Missile Launchers are the most expensive heavy weapon you can take, so I'm iffy on them.
    Seer Council: If a Farseer and Warlock are within 6 inches of each other add 1 to both of their Psychic phases. God. Yes. This can be absolutely huge for getting off those crucial powers.
    Fire and Fade: Shoot, then move 7 inches. It's alright, but you can't charge after using it. Good for kiting something slow though.
    Runes of Witnessing: Reroll 1s to wound if you're within 6 inches of a Farseer. Very good, but 2 CP makes it too pricey to spam. But it can be crucial.
    Phantasm: Once the game starts, but before anything moves, redeploy 3 units. A transport with guys inside count as one unit. Very nice to counter deploy if need be. At 2 CP though, I'd try to avoid using it.
    Tears of Isha: Heal a Wraith construct D3 wounds. 2 CP means it's only really worth it to get back up a level of degradation.
    Vaul's Might: If your Support Weapon is within 6 inches of another Support Weapon, then reroll 1s to wound for both weapons. I don't know if it's the wording, but that it doesn't say Support Weapon unit. If you're unit has more then one weapon, then spam this Stratagem and get the most out of those D-Cannons or whatever.
    The Avatar Resurgent: For 3 CP respawn your Avatar with D6 wounds if it dies in the Fight phase. Happens after they resolve all of their attacks, so you don't need to worry too much about being double killed. Very nice, but very niche and expensive. They really don't want to be in close combat with your Avatar anyways.
    Pathfinders: Alaitoc only. If a unit of Rangers have cover, you can make it so they can only be hit on 6s. Happens at the start of the shooting phase. Mostly a waste, since they already have a -2 to hit them, unless they are close. If they are close, your Rangers are about to die in melee. So very, very niche. Almost never use this one.
    Court of the Young King: Biel-Tan only. Give a unit +2 to charge and reroll 1s to hit. That's decent. If within 6 of an Avatar when this is used it's +3 and reroll all misses. Plus you get to reroll to charge from the Avatar. Not bad at all.
    Guided Wraithsight: Spiritseers now effect enemy units within 12 inches instead of 6 and Wraiths get to reroll all misses instead of just ones. Wow. Garbage. Spiritseers almost need this base to be usable. Having to pay a CP is just an insult.
    Warriors of the Raging Winds: Saim-Hann only, use in the movement phase. A Jetbike unit can advance and charge. Plus it rerolls to hit rolls of 1 in the Fight phase. Very good for 1 CP and makes for an easy first turn charge for a unit of Shining Spears.
    Discipline of the Black Guardians: Ulthwe Only. Add 1 to hit rolls for a Guardian unit. Pretty good.


    Spoiler: HQ
    Show
    Eldrad Ulthran: for 50 extra points (or 20 if you are looking at a Jetbike Farseet) you get an extra power, a +1 to your powers so long as you pass the last one, a better Invulnerable save, and a slightly better witchblade. Oh, and an extra wound. Pretty worth it,
    except you have to be Ulthwe. Well, you can always get around that with a Supreme Command Detachment though.

    Farseer/Farseer Skyrunner: You want one. You might want two. They are very good, with 2 powers per phase, and some very nice powers to cast. At only 100 points they are a steal. Added bonus, they have a 5+ to ignore mortal wounds, which goes to a 2+ to ignore Perils. Pay 30 extra points for +1 T and +1 wound on a Jetbike. Your save does NOT get better though. But with a 22 inch move when advancing you can make sure your Farseer is wherever you need them at all times.

    Warlock Conclave: For 5 points less then the base Warlock you only get 1 Power per 3 models (rounding up), loses the character rule, but can have a better Smite at least. Honestly not awful on it's own merits but Warlocks can be taken on their own, and thus becomes awful. Can be put on Jetbikes but that doesn't change anything important.

    Warlock/Warlock Skyrunner: Warlock powers are absolutely incredible. Protect/Jinx, Conceal, and Quicken are almost must includes in any army. Again 30 points to add a Jetbike. That starts to get pricey, but the extra durability is very nice. I'd recommend taking 3 of them at least. Also a decent melee unit with always wounding on a 2+ and D3 damage. No AP though, so bad against Terminators and the like. Their Smite is also awful, doing only a single mortal wound at 9 inches.

    Spiritseer: 10 points more then a Warlock on foot for twice the wounds. It has a proper smite too. But it has to go on foot, and the Spirit Mark ability is useless since it only activates when you're within 6 inches of an enemy model. Actually decent if you are just comparing it to a single Warlock. But the points saved after getting 3 is pretty hefty. Besides, you aren't really taking Warlocks for smite spam anyways, because their powers are just that good.

    Prince Yriel: A foot Autarch with 1 extra wound and a pretty sweet spear. A cool one shot Pistol too. Sadly you have to reroll saving throws of 6 in close combat, and he doesn't have a real gun, so he's kinda bad. For an extra 35 points on a bad unit I'd pass.

    Autarch: ...Why can't you give him anything? Like literally anything. He has a Not A Powerfist and that's it. Surely you can scrape the points up for a better choice.

    Autarch with Swooping Hawk Wings: for ~25 points you get a fusion pistol, a 14 inch move, the ability to SUA, the ability to enter reserves if needed, and mandiblasters. Yeah, that's worth it. Actually being able to keep up with your troops is nice, being able to do something is even nicer. Not bad if you're scrapping points or just like the model.

    Autarch Skyrunner: Only 10 points more then the Wings, and you get +1 T, and +1 W and +2 M. You also can take a Fusion gun or a Laser Lance. Autarch's are most useful for Path of Command, and you'll typically want one for your warlord. I find a 6 inch bubble is plenty of space for buffs, so I'd only take the one. With a 22 inch move on the advance you can make sure you've got that buff pretty much where it needs to be.

    The Avatar of Khaine: I love this model and it's an absolute beatstick in close combat. 5 Attacks at S8, AP -4, and 2D6 take the highest damage, it'll one shot anything short of a Lord of War. The Avatar has a 3+/5++/5+++ base, and will tear apart pretty much anything in close combat. It's also a character with 8 wounds, so yay. For an added bonus it can shoot it's attack, and it makes everyone within 12 fearless and can reroll charges. Sadly at 250 points, I can't say it's a must have, but it's a strong unit if you want it.

    Illic Nightspear: A super sniper, who really hates Necrons. He's Alaitoc and a Ranger so you'll be hitting him at -2. His sniper always wounds on 2+, except against vehicles, has an AP of -3, does 3 Damage, and still deals an additional mortal wound on a 6. He gets +2 to his cover saves and can SUA before the game begins. At only 80 points there's no reason to not take him.

    Spoiler: Phoenix Lords
    Show
    Each Phoenix Lord has a 2+ save, T4, 6W, and most of them have 4A.

    Asurmen: He gets +1 Attack, and gives all aspect warriors a 5+ invulnerable save when within 6 inches. Dire Avengers get a 4+
    instead. Very nice. He has a 4++ against shooting and a 3++ in close combat. Otherwise nothing special. At 175 he's the most expensive Phoenix Lord, and is only alright.

    Baharroth: He has a super grenade pack that hits on 4+ and gets 3 shots. He gives +1 Ld and +2 to to Swooping Hawks. He also lets Swooping Hawks reroll 1s to hit. Not worth the 110 points.

    Fuegan: Has a 5+ to ignore damage, and gives Fire Dragons reroll 1s to hit. Also after he takes a wound, he gets +2 S and A. So he's a pretty decent beatstick with an AP -4 weapon at S5/7 and D3 damage. Has a Firepike, so he can Melta stuff. At 150 points, he's alright.

    Jain Zar: Always gets to go first in combat, and gives that to Banshees within 6. She can Advance and Charge, and gets all the Banshee abilities. Most importantly she can disarm an enemy infantry model on a 3+. Easily the best Phoenix Lord.

    Karandras: 4 Mandiblaster shots, that activate on a 5+. He lets all scorpions get extra attacks on a 6+. He has the same abilities as the other Scorpions, so he's not that great.

    Maugan Ra: Has a better Shurikan Cannon (or a crappy 1 shot version which sucks), with 1 extra shot, and -1 AP base with Bladestorm. He can shoot it twice, always hits on a 2+, and lets all Dark Reapers wthin 6 reroll 1s. At 140 points, he's worth the expense in a shooty Eldar list. Without Dark Reapers to enhance, I don't think he's worth it.



    Spoiler: Troops
    Show
    Guardians Defenders: Your bread and butter, these guys have your shurikan catapults and a 5+ save. You can use Celestial Shield and other shenanigans to keep them up, but they'll die fast. They can have Heavy Weapons, but I recommend Shurikan Cannons, because they are assault weapons, so you can Battle Focus without penalty.

    Storm Guardians: Guardians with Pistols. It's as bad as it sounds. You can take 2 Fusion Guns, but seriously, just take Fire Dragons and an actual melee unit instead.

    Dire Avengers:: For 4 points more, they get an extra 6 inches of range, a 4+ save, and Overwatch on 5+. I'd say it's worth it, and these guys are my go to troop choice for rate of fire. Give them a Shimmershield for a 5++ if you want to make them more durable.

    Rangers: Eldar snipers. At 12 points a model, they might just be the best snipers in the game. You take a -1 to shoot them, they get +2 from their cover, and can SUA at the start of the game. Spam them like crazy.


    Overall, Eldar have pretty much no bad choices for their troop choices. All of them can be quite amazing, and are cheap enough to be used in any combination and used frequently. Just pretend Storm Guardians don't exist.


    Spoiler: Elites
    Show
    Howling Banshees: A unit of power weapons at S3. They get +3 to the charge distance, you can't overwatch them,
    and you take -1 to hit them in close combat. Webway Assault them for a first turn charge, and they'll do some decent damage against pretty much anything. The Executioner now is only S4, but take it over Mirror Swords. The extra oomph to wound and damage is better then rerolling to hit.

    Striking Scorpions: SUA only works on turn 2 now, and getting mortals on 6 isn't very good or reliable. Sadly, they aren't that great at anti-horde anymore, since they don't really have any more attacks then any other Eldar melee unit. The Exarch's power claw is great, but it's only S6, so it's not amazing against vehicles. As much as I love this unit, they just aren't as good as Banshees.

    Fire Dragons: A squad of melta guns that gets a crucial reroll of 1s against vehicles and monsters. It's almost always worth it to take a unit of these guys, and either Webway assault them in, or toss them in a Falcon. They have Battle Focus, so you can always advance. The Exarch rerolls 1s to hit, so don't take the Dragon Breath Flamer. Either a normal Fusion gun, or a Fire Pike. You don't really want them shooting at hordes anyways.

    Wraithblades: They are big, tough, and with 3 attacks each on the charge at S6/7, they'll do some serious damage in close combat. Sadly they are slow, so they either need a Wave Serpent or to be Webway Assualted in. But with T6 and 3Ws, and a 4++ if you take the Forcefields they'll likely make it to combat eventually.

    Wraithguard:: Just as tough as Wraithblades, but with guns instead of blades. D-sythes have an 8 inch range, and do D3 auto hits at S10 AP -4, and 1 damage each. I prefer the Wraithcannons, for the 12 inch range, but also for the D6 damage each. They also can handle themselves in close combat, with AP -1 and D3 damage. Don't worry about being bogged down, they can fall back and shoot. Sadly they do NOT have Battle Focus, so you take the -1 to Advance. Wave Serpents are recommended, but walking is possible with Warlocks backing them up with Protect and Conceal.

    Some good melee choices here, but it depends on your meta really, since Banshees aren't very good against monsters and hordes, but are fantastic against nearly everything else. Also denying Overwatch and being very mobile makes them useful to tying up tanks, even if they won't kill it. Wraithguard and Fire Dragons are the best choices for anti-tank in the book.



    Spoiler: Fast Attack
    Show
    Windriders: Took a pretty big nerf in losing Jink, going to a 4+ save, and no longer being able to shoot and move back. Still very decent, and incredibly fast. I recommend Shurikan Cannons, as they are only 5 points more then the twin catapults for +2 S and +12 Range. They are assault weapons so you can Battle Focus 22 inches and have Bladestorm to boot.

    Vypers:Well they exist. Truly, they aren't bad. But being 14 points more then 2 Windriders, you only get +2 W, +1 T, and a 3+
    save. For the same amount of shots. It's tough to say which is fully better, as being T5 can be huge. Either option will likely serve you just as well. Oh, important detail is they do count as Jetbikes, so Saim-Hann kicks in with them. They can take any heavy weapon, so being able to move and shoot it without penalty can be big.

    Swooping Hawks: They aren't awful, but they struggle to do much. They can grenade pack every turn, doing mortals on 6s, one bomb for every Swooping Hawk. They can SUA, and Skyleap back in the air for rapid redeployment. But Lasblasters are only S3, with no AP and no Bladestorm, so they just don't provide enough shooting to bother with.

    Warp Spiders: They can SUA in, you take a -1 to hit them,and they can reroll failed morale. But most importantly, they go 7 inches+4D6, though they can't charge if you do that. Their weapons are S6 with Bladestorm (slightly better at -4 instead of -3), and they have a 3+ save. Oh, you can lose guys on a double 1 when you activate SUA or the -1 to hit, but that's very minor.

    Shining Spears: The Laser lances have very good shooting, even if it's only 6 inch range. But S6, AP -4 and 2 Damage will tear apart high wound high armor save units to pieces, on the charge or at close range. Plus they can still fire their Twin Shurkian Catapults, giving them good anti-horde at the same time. At 4 shots a piece they'll throw out an impressive amount of fire power. They have a 4++ against shooting, and the Exarch is even better against Vehicles and Monsters. They have very devastating charges, and are overall a very solid, hard hitting, unit for any Eldar army.

    Again, lots of good stuff, depending on what you need for your army. Fast attack is likely the best source of anti-horde stuff in your army, since everything simply gets so many shots. Everything has fly, so you can always fall back and shoot as well.


    Spoiler: Heavy Support
    Show
    War Walkers: Another great source of spamming shurkian cannons. They can SUA off the board edge, but that's not that important. More importantly, they have a 5+ invulnerable save. They can also take other heavy weapons, making them ideal gun platforms.

    Wraithlord: Back to T8! They needed that badly. They used to be simply too fragile to do anything. Now, they are much better. They are decent in close combat and decent at shooting. Sadly, moving makes them worse at shooting, so they are kinda a jack of all trades, master of none unit. They degrade at 5 wounds, so they can fall apart fast. And they get expensive if you give them multiple heavy weapons. Overall, I'd stick to the War Walkers if I just want the heavy weapon platforms. However they become amazing for Iyanden, since they'll then only degrade when they hit 2 wounds. Add the relic and they can deal 8 attacks at S7, AP -3 and 3 damage each in close combat. Or take Ghostglaives for +2S -4 AP and D6 damage. Take 3 and power bomb Mortarion when he gets too close.

    Support Weapons: Eldar artillery that are no longer T7 because that was just stupid. D-Cannons are very expensive at 75 points per pop, and they are short range. But D3 S12, AP -4 and D6 damage will tear things apart. If they survive to do so. Short range, and a costly price tag. Vibro Cannons are long range, but they almost need to be a squad of 3. And they are 60 points each. So ow. And even then, they aren't that good. Avoid them. Shadow Weavers and pretty decent. At 38 points a pop, they are a decent amount of points, and D6 S6 shots with Bladestorm isn't that bad. Makes them comparable to Warp Spiders at least.

    Dark Reapers: Always hitting on a 3+ and with rockets that are 2 shots at S5 AP -2 D2, or 1 shot at S8 AP -2 and D3, these guys are great anti-tank, anti-flyer, and anti-marine unit. Give the Exarch a Tempest Launcher and they are Anti-horde as well. But in an era where there are a ton of penalties to hit, the always hitting on a 3+ is incredible. Hilariously though, it says regardless of any modifiers, so they can never get a bonus to hit either.

    Falcon: A solid tank that has decent anti-tank, and anti-infantry. I'd recommend Shurikan Cannons to keep the point cost down, unless you aren't using it as a transport. It can carry 6 models, so I usually put Fire Dragons inside.

    Wave Serpent: The other transport that is likely infamous at this point. It's Serpent Shield reduced enemy damage by 1, but can also be used as a once per game smite on a 2+. Again, it's likely moving around a lot, so I suggest sticking to Shurikan Cannons, but it can take twin heavy weapons of pretty much any Eldar heavy weapon.

    Nightspinner: It's got a slightly stronger, 2D6 Shadow Weaver. But at 140 points, you could take a full squad of 3 Shadow Weavers for a lot less. So Shadow Weavers do the exact same job better for less points. Just use them instead.

    Fire Prisms: Holy carp these guys got a massive buff. The prism cannon has 3 modes of fire, D6 S6 AP -3 1 D, D3 S9 -4AP D3 D, or 1 S12, -5 AP D6 D. Most of the time, you'll want the D3 S9 shots. But most importantly, they get to fire twice if they move under half their movement. With a range of 60 inches, they pretty much never need to move. Add in Linked Fire, and they can repeatedly deliver a brutal Alpha Strike on your opponent.



    Spoiler: Flyers
    Show
    Crimson Hunter/Exarch: An extra mobile flyer who gets to reroll to wound against enemy flyers. Can only take Heavy Weapons, but starts at 2+ to hit to make up for it. If you are taking Ilyanden it won't degrade til 3 wounds, so it'll be hitting on 3+ for most of the game. For 15 points, the Exarch gets to reroll 1s to hit. It can be kinda hard to keep them near an Autarch, so that's a worth while upgrade.

    Hemlock Wraithfighter: A nasty piece of work guaranteed to get people to throw dice at you. Just as mobile as the Crimson Hunter, it comes with Spirit Stones, so it has a 6+++ base, enemies take a -2 to LD when within 12 of it, and it can cast a single power. The Warlock powers are good, but it can only throw out the nerfs and none of the buffs. Usually I'd go with Jinx. But now for the important part. The Hemlock drops 2D3 auto hits on any unit within 16 inches at S12 AP-4 and 2 D. Ow. Just ow. And of course, it's got Hard to Hit which stacks with Altoic so you'll often be hitting it at -2.


    Spoiler: Lords of War
    Show
    The Wraithknight: It's a lot like an imperial knight, you can run it melee or shooting. As cool as the Heavy Wraithcannons are, they mean you don't have an invulnerable save. But that is 4 S16 shots. But overall I'd say melee mode is better. The 5++ is huge, and it's better damage. Suncannons is weird. You get the 5++, but you become much better at dealing with small units rather then other Titantic stuff. I'd actually suspect it's the best of the three if it weren't so expensive. Anyways, if you're taking a Wraithknight, you'll be running it with Iyanden for the extra durability. Also with the relic you can lay down 24 attacks against the small stuff, or just 8 big punches.

    Sadly at 450 point minimum, I can't recommend them. Take 4 Wraithlords instead, with Ghostglaives. You gain 16 Wounds, are likely even or slightly cheaper in points, and still do D6 damage in close combat. You have the same base amount of attacks per Wraithlord, even if you can't multiple it against weak stuff.
    [/QUOTE]

    The Start Collecting Box is mostly bad. It gives some units that are alright for some very specific lists, but very few things that you'll always want to take.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollysword View Post
    If I have to, I can always get a 2nd unit of Wraithguard and give them the other weapon option. I'm surprised the Wraithlord isn't that popular anymore though. For the most part, I haven't even planned for points matches, just play with whatever looks cool, using power levels as a guide.
    Well where are you playing? If you are using points or power level depends on your local meta. But I recommend points if you have a choice. Just get used to it immediately, and it's what most people play so you'll find more games.
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  25. - Top - End - #1405
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    My group of friends have Conquest, so they have Primaris and Death Guard. The magazines only provide power levels though, no points (yet?), that's why I'm only thinking about power levels for the Eldar.

    I can't remember where I found the quizzes, but the top 3 are in my memory:

    1: Alaitoc (100% even)
    2: generic Eldar
    3: Ulthwe

    Can't remember the rest of the list, but seeing that 100% basically got me obsessed. How do you recommend I start, if not the wraithlord/guards?
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  26. - Top - End - #1406
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollysword View Post
    My group of friends have Conquest, so they have Primaris and Death Guard. The magazines only provide power levels though, no points (yet?), that's why I'm only thinking about power levels for the Eldar.

    I can't remember where I found the quizzes, but the top 3 are in my memory:

    1: Alaitoc (100% even)
    2: generic Eldar
    3: Ulthwe

    Can't remember the rest of the list, but seeing that 100% basically got me obsessed. How do you recommend I start, if not the wraithlord/guards?
    I see. Well if you are playing with friends, then there shouldn't be a problem. If you're playing at your local gamestore, then maybe you should look into points then.

    Well you want to do Alaitoc? Then I suggest you start off with getting 15 Rangers. Then a Farseer and a Warlock. That will be your basic Battalion. If you really want to invest in Alaitoc, then pick up Illic to boot.

    From there, you've got a lot of options. There are very few flat out bad choices in the Eldar codex. Some solid choices that are good for nearly any army build though? Wave Serpents, Dark Reapers, and Shining Spears.

    Sadly, I don't think there are any good boxes to take short cuts for Eldar. The Start Collecting box is a joke. For some reason the Webstore is down right now, so I can't look at any other bargain boxes out there.
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  27. - Top - End - #1407
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    I read that Alaitoc specialize in rangers, and I like sniping type forces. I'm just thinking, if I am to get a farseer (and what eldar army doesn't have one), why not get the start collecting for a cheaper bundle. Even if the wraiths aren't as good in Alaitoc, the option is there if I feel like using them. Even have an idea of converting the wraithlord to carry one of the heavy weapons in both hands as a 'wraith sniper rifle'.
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  28. - Top - End - #1408
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollysword View Post
    I read that Alaitoc specialize in rangers, and I like sniping type forces. I'm just thinking, if I am to get a farseer (and what eldar army doesn't have one), why not get the start collecting for a cheaper bundle. Even if the wraiths aren't as good in Alaitoc, the option is there if I feel like using them. Even have an idea of converting the wraithlord to carry one of the heavy weapons in both hands as a 'wraith sniper rifle'.
    The reason to not get the Start Collecting is because none of it actually brings you closer to actually having an army besides the Farseer. It doesn't have any of the oh so crucial troop choices. And the wraiths are good for very particular army builds. If you decide you want to build one of those armies, then cool, the Start Collecting will help you out there. But it's really bad as a first purchase. And don't worry about the Farseer. Getting an extra Farseer later is still very useful. In fact, if you don't get the Start Collecting, you can give your first Farseer a jetbike, which is a really good option and something you likely want at least one of.

    So yeah, the Start Collecting box is one of the worst thing for an Eldar player to get when they start collecting. Ironically enough. It's something to get when you've got a complete and clear idea of exactly what you want your army to be. Basically, if you have to ask if the Start Collecting box is for you, that means it probably isn't.
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  29. - Top - End - #1409
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollysword View Post
    My group of friends have Conquest, so they have Primaris and Death Guard.
    Rad. You only have to deal with Marines. One has two wounds, the other has Disgustingly Resilient. Multi-Damage weapons are your friend, and thus, Wraithguard are entirely usable to hard counter the bane-of-casuals, Blightlords, insofar as that whoever goes first, loses.

    That being said, if the Marines dip into Guard, or the Death Guard start running 100+ Poxwalkers, hard tailoring goes out the window.

    Knowing your opponents, vastly helps, especially as both of them play almost the same thing.

    HQ
    Mortal Wound generators are your friend. Eldrad is literally magic. But since you're not going to play Ulthwé, he's out. Regular Farseers do the job. While you're looking for your second HQ, make it a Spiritseer to make your <Wraith Constructs> not bad.

    An Autarch (+/- Skyrunner) never goes wrong because Path of Command is just that useful - especially if you're not Ulthwé.

    You'll also want to look into running Maugan Ra or Illic Nightspear. You do not need both. Ironically, Maugan Ra gets worse the more Dark Reapers you have. Then again, you do want to play <Alaitoc>, so Nightspear will be a cool guy.

    Troops
    As I previously said, all Eldar Troops are equally as good/bad as each other. It doesn't matter which one you go with. Especially good for casuals because the price point for each box is exactly the same. Considering you're playing against Primaris Marines and Death Guard, I like Guardians with a Starcannon. That said, you do have to pay 80 Points before you even get a single Starcannon, and, since you're Craftworlds, there are better ways to get Starcannons.

    Dire Avengers are a solid Troops choice. They're far from the best Troops in the game (Plaguebearers). But they're not even close to as bad as the worst Troops in the game (conversation for a different day). So, pick up as many Dire Avengers as you want, especially if you're playing Maelstrom and movement matters. But, if it doesn't...

    Alaitoc Rangers are good because they pick up -2 to hit if they're in Cover (which should be all the time). So, you should absolutely pick up at least one unit of Rangers. Especially since they deal additional Mortal Wounds. So, yeah.

    An even mix of Dire Avengers and Rangers isn't wrong. And even if you don't have an even mix of Avengers:Rangers, you're still not wrong.

    Elites
    If we're starting with Wraithguard, we know that Fire Dragons are redundant.
    If we're starting with Wraithblades, we know that Howling Banshees are redundant.
    Either way, you want a Spiritseer.

    So, however you build your Wraith unit, pick up the other corresponding Aspect Warrior unit.

    ...You never need to run Striking Scorpions... Unless you really like the models. But against Primaris Marines and Death Guard, they're going to do almost next to nothing unless you can roll 6s. Buy 'em if you like 'em. But, you've been warned.

    Fast
    The only choice really worth taking, is Shining Spears, and if you're taking Shining Spears, you even more don't need Wraithblades. So kit out those Wraithguard with Webwaying Lascannons.

    Heavy
    War Walkers and Wraithlords both want to run basically the same thing - Starcannons or AMLs.

    Vibro Cannons will **** up Marines hard. The problem is that you have run 3 units of 1 weapon, rather than 1 unit of 3. Which chews up your Role slots real fast. Unless you're running a Spearhead (which you might want to), and then you can use as many slots as you want.
    D-Cannons are extremely strong. But their short range makes them particularly hard to use if you don't want them to die immediately.

    Dark Reapers are arguably the best unit in the Codex.
    Take Fire Prisms if you don't like Dark Reapers.

    Wave Serpents under the <Alaitoc> tag are very strong. Similar to War Walkers and Wraithlords, you have access to Starcannons and AMLs, except now they're Twinned, and thus, better.

    Fliers
    All planes are good under the <Alaitoc> tag for the same reason that Rangers are. Stackable negs to hit. That being said, even without -2 to hit, Craftworld Fliers are extremely strong and it never hurts to turn your eye to making an Air Wing at some point in the future. If you're not going to run a full Air Wing, and you're only going to pick up a single Flier due to any constraint you choose, pick up the Hemlock Wraithfighter. ****'s brutal - especially against Marines.

    Wraithknights under the <Alaitoc> tag are really stupid. "Where's the Titan, I can't see it!?" That said, Imperial and Renegade Knights will dunk on a Wraithknight. So if your opponents are running Knights in their lists, as Craftworlds, the answer, actually, is not a Titan of your own. But...More Wraithguard.

    Even have an idea of converting the wraithlord to carry one of the heavy weapons in both hands as a 'wraith sniper rifle'.
    Everyone does that. It doesn't even look bad.
    Hell, I don't even play Craftworlds, and I've done that conversion.
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  30. - Top - End - #1410
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

    Rad. You only have to deal with Marines. One has two wounds, the other has Disgustingly Resilient. Multi-Damage weapons are your friend, and thus, Wraithguard are entirely usable to hard counter the bane-of-casuals, Blightlords, insofar as that whoever goes first, loses.
    Conquest is more or less First Strike / Know no Fear, so its super easy to tailor against. Open play also means no detachments and no stratagems, as I doubt his friends got enough models for a batallion either nor any codices to get strats from even if they did.

    My own personal suggestion? 1. Download BattleScribe. There, now you have points for everything and a tool to build lists. 2. Buy the Datacards for your faction. They'll come in handy if you want to play Maelstrom later on. 3. Find a local group / store. Starter Box Sealed gets old really fast, and you may not want to put money on stuff that you'll only use a couple of times then everybody just moves on. Conquest is a Europe thing, right? So it should be pretty easy.

    Knowing your opponents, vastly helps, especially as both of them play almost the same thing.
    Like hell they do. Auto-hit Plague Drones are way different than Hellblasters. DG actually has a workable army through starters (to a point) where a bunch of Primaris is more of a Kill Team level thing.

    HQ
    Mortal Wound generators are your friend. Eldrad is literally magic. But since you're not going to play Ulthwé, he's out. Regular Farseers do the job. While you're looking for your second HQ, make it a Spiritseer to make your <Wraith Constructs> not bad.

    An Autarch (+/- Skyrunner) never goes wrong because Path of Command is just that useful - especially if you're not Ulthwé.

    You'll also want to look into running Maugan Ra or Illic Nightspear. You do not need both. Ironically, Maugan Ra gets worse the more Dark Reapers you have. Then again, you do want to play <Alaitoc>, so Nightspear will be a cool guy.
    Both named HQs are not good enough for their $ cost. Eldrad is great, but it locks you into Ulthwe. An Autarch is pretty solid, and remember he can get a Dark Reaper weapon from the Index, or can become inmune to overwatch if you want him to run with a bike and lead the troops. You'll need warlocks / spirit seers though, almost every power they have is useful, unlike trash like Asuryan's Will. They suck at smiting though.

    Troops
    As I previously said, all Eldar Troops are equally as good/bad as each other. It doesn't matter which one you go with. Especially good for casuals because the price point for each box is exactly the same. Considering you're playing against Primaris Marines and Death Guard, I like Guardians with a Starcannon. That said, you do have to pay 80 Points before you even get a single Starcannon, and, since you're Craftworlds, there are better ways to get Starcannons.

    Dire Avengers are a solid Troops choice. They're far from the best Troops in the game (Plaguebearers). But they're not even close to as bad as the worst Troops in the game (conversation for a different day). So, pick up as many Dire Avengers as you want, especially if you're playing Maelstrom and movement matters. But, if it doesn't...

    Alaitoc Rangers are good because they pick up -2 to hit if they're in Cover (which should be all the time). So, you should absolutely pick up at least one unit of Rangers. Especially since they deal additional Mortal Wounds. So, yeah.

    An even mix of Dire Avengers and Rangers isn't wrong. And even if you don't have an even mix of Avengers:Rangers, you're still not wrong.
    Weapon Platforms have a 2+ save, so they can be very durable against the wall of S4 AP0 weapons your oponents will be throwing your way. With Fortune from a Farseer, Conceal from a Warlock or just being in cover, 20 Guardians and 2 weapon platforms will take more firepower to bring down than it looks at first glance.

    Rangers are cool but your oponent has auto-hit weapons in the drones, so the -x matters less. The marine's player you'll wound on 4s, and their HQs have quite a few wounds, so sniping isnt something to bank on. They're good for coming in turn 2 and stealing unguarded objectives, or just as CP fodder, but if you're not using detachments no need to worry about CPs.

    Elites
    If we're starting with Wraithguard, we know that Fire Dragons are redundant.
    If we're starting with Wraithblades, we know that Howling Banshees are redundant.
    Either way, you want a Spiritseer.

    So, however you build your Wraith unit, pick up the other corresponding Aspect Warrior unit.

    ...You never need to run Striking Scorpions... Unless you really like the models. But against Primaris Marines and Death Guard, they're going to do almost next to nothing unless you can roll 6s. Buy 'em if you like 'em. But, you've been warned.
    Wraithblades will rip marines apart though, so no real need for more units from this role.

    Fast
    The only choice really worth taking, is Shining Spears, and if you're taking Shining Spears, you even more don't need Wraithblades. So kit out those Wraithguard with Webwaying Lascannons.
    Warp Spiders can put in surprising good work as objective cappers, both due to mobility and because under Alaitoc they are another -2 to be hit unit. Their firepower is nothing spectacular, of course, so they are a one trick pony.

    Heavy
    War Walkers and Wraithlords both want to run basically the same thing - Starcannons or AMLs.

    Vibro Cannons will **** up Marines hard. The problem is that you have run 3 units of 1 weapon, rather than 1 unit of 3. Which chews up your Role slots real fast. Unless you're running a Spearhead (which you might want to), and then you can use as many slots as you want.
    D-Cannons are extremely strong. But their short range makes them particularly hard to use if you don't want them to die immediately.

    Dark Reapers are arguably the best unit in the Codex.
    Take Fire Prisms if you don't like Dark Reapers.

    Wave Serpents under the <Alaitoc> tag are very strong. Similar to War Walkers and Wraithlords, you have access to Starcannons and AMLs, except now they're Twinned, and thus, better.
    Fire Prisms are pretty good and flexible, but yeah, Dark Reapers are just too good to pass up. But they get a lot more value if you're playing with stratagems, as hiding out of LoS after shooting for 1 CP is just bananas.

    Fliers
    All planes are good under the <Alaitoc> tag for the same reason that Rangers are. Stackable negs to hit. That being said, even without -2 to hit, Craftworld Fliers are extremely strong and it never hurts to turn your eye to making an Air Wing at some point in the future. If you're not going to run a full Air Wing, and you're only going to pick up a single Flier due to any constraint you choose, pick up the Hemlock Wraithfighter. ****'s brutal - especially against Marines.
    What do you aim a hemlock at fighting Starter marines? Nothing is a good enough target because everything would've been better killed by Star Cannons instead. Yeah, the 6+++ helps, but not being 14" away helps much more. Re-rolling 1s is better than Jinx because, do you really need to jinx 3+ units without an invulnerable?

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