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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Intimidation Rogue [5e Subclass]

    I've always felt intimidation was a under utilized skill and that swashbuckler never really felt like it really captures what a pirate should be... too Errol Flynn, not enough Dread Pirate Roberts.

    So the goal was to make a intimidation into a workable mechanic and create a rogue that literally scares victims into giving them a sneak attack.

    Marauder

    They call you reaver, raider, ravager, but you are no mere bandit or thief. Instead of stealthily cutting purses, you take what you will and challenge your victims to defy you with but a scornful look. Those who do dare to stand between you and your plunder soon quake in fear before your unconventional but vicious fighting style. A marauder is a rogue who strides into battle wielding their bravado as a weapon. Be it on the high seas or on dry land you are infamous as a brigand with little regard for honor or the sanctity of life, driven only by your desire for wealth and power.

    Marauders crush their enemy's spirit with fearsome glares and brash taunts, before carving into their flesh with lethal accuracy. These rogues learn to harness their guile to strike at the psyche of the weak, their infamy and ego growing with each bloody kill until they can do so with their mere presence alone. Their opponent become so rapt with terror they're attacks are rendered ineffective, with little recourse other than to run; however, showing their back to a marauder may be the last mistake they ever make.

    *Version 2 added 5/24

    Cloak of The Dread (orig)
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    Starting at 3rd level, you take on an audacious fighting stance in combat, becoming as illusive as you are deadly. Once per round, you can give yourself a bonus, equal to your Charisma modifier, to the attack roll of a light melee or ranged weapon you are holding.

    You also have advantage when attempting to escape from being grappled or restrained.

    Cloak of The Dread*
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    Starting at 3rd level, you take on an extremely threatening fighting posture in combat, becoming as illusive as you are deadly. As a bonus action don the Cloak of The Dread stance for up to 1 minute.

    While using Cloak of The Dread you gain the following benefits:
    • Once per round, you can give yourself a bonus +2 to the attack roll of a light melee or ranged weapon you are holding.
    • You have advantage when attempting to escape from being grappled or restrained.

    You can take this stance a number of times equal to your Charisma modifier per long rest (no fewer than once).


    Murderous Intent
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    At level 3, you gain the ability to debilitate your opponents with a bloodthirsty glare. Using the bonus action granted by your Cunning Action, you can make a Charisma (Intimidation) check against a creature's Wisdom (Insight) check. If successful, that creature is blind with terror; its next attack against you is at disadvantage and your next attack against it is at advantage. To do so, you must see the creature and it must see you.


    Dreadful Provocation
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    At 9th level, your taunting threats cut as deep as any blade as you transfix your foes with a hateful gaze. As an action, you can make a Charisma (Intimidation) check contested by a creatureís Wisdom (Insight) check. The creature must be able to hear you, and the two of you must share a language.

    If you succeed on the check and the creature is hostile to you, it has disadvantage on attack rolls against targets other than you and canít make opportunity attacks against targets other than you. This effect lasts for 1 minute, until one of your companions attacks the target or affects it with a spell, or until you and the target are more than 60 feet apart.

    If you succeed on the check and the creature isnít hostile to you, it is frightened by you for 1 minute. While frightened, it cannot make take an action against you. This effect ends immediately if you or your companions do anything friendly towards or attacks it.


    Wrathful Reprisal (orig)
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    Beginning at 13th level, when an attacker that you can see misses you with an attack, you can use your reaction to make an attack against that creature.

    You also gain an additional way to use your Sneak Attack; when making an attack of opportunity on a foe, you donít need advantage or for another enemy of the target to be within 5 feet of it to use your Sneak Attack.

    Wrathful Reprisal*
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    At level 13 you become more brazen in combat and gain an additional way to use your Sneak Attack; when making an attack of opportunity on a foe, you donít need advantage on the attack roll or for another enemy of your target to be within 5 ft. of it to use your Sneak Attack.

    Additionally your mastery of the Cloak of The Dread grows and you gain an additional benefit while taking the fighting stance:
    • When an attacker that you can see misses you with an attack, you can use your reaction to make an attack against that creature.


    Menacing Assailant (orig)
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    At 17th level, the deadly presence your Cloak of The Dread exudes reaches its apex making your attacks as lethal as they are precise. Once per round, you can add an additional 1d6 to your Sneak Attack damage against a creature that is frightened or under the effect of your Dreadful Provocation equal to your Charisma modifier, no less than 1. You also have advantage on all Charisma (Intimidation) checks.

    Menacing Assailant*
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    Beginning at 17th level, the deadly presence reaches its apex making your taunts more effective and your attacks as lethal as they are precise. Any creature that understands at least one language and isn't immune to being frightened can be effected by your Dreadful Provocation, even if it's a language you don't speak.

    Additionally your mastery of the Cloak of The Dread grows and you gain an additional benefit while taking the fighting stance:
    • Once per round, you can add an additional 1d6 to your Sneak Attack damage against a creature that is frightened or under the effect of your Dreadful Provocation equal to half your Charisma modifier (round up).


    This is my first crack at Homebrew so any constructive advice would be much appreciated!

    https://www.dndbeyond.com/subclasses/174950-marauder
    Last edited by Zetram; 2019-05-28 at 11:40 AM.

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    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Intimidation Rogue [5e Subclass]

    Cloak of The Dread
    Spoiler
    Show
    Starting at 3rd level, you take on an audacious fighting stance in combat, becoming as illusive as you are deadly. Once per round, you can give yourself a bonus, equal to your Charisma modifier, to the attack roll of a light melee or ranged weapon you are holding.

    You also have advantage when attempting to escape from being grappled or restrained.


    I'd recommend putting a use restriction on this. An unlimited +1/2 to attacks is the equivalent of a magic weapon. So maybe a number of times per short rest equal to your cha mod?

    Murderous Intent
    Spoiler
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    At level 3, you gain the ability to debilitate your opponents with a bloodthirsty glare. Using the bonus action granted by your Cunning Action, you can make a Charisma (Intimidation) check against a creature's Wisdom (Insight) check. If successful, that creature is blind with terror; its next attack against you is at disadvantage and your next attack against it is at advantage. To do so, you must see the creature and it must see you.


    This seems fine to me. My only issue is that you should note that creatures immune to fear effects are not affected by this feature.

    Dreadful Provocation
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    At 9th level, your taunting threats cut as deep as any blade, no creature will be able to pull away from your hateful gaze. As an action, you can make a Charisma (Intimidation) check contested by a creatureís Wisdom (Insight) check. The creature must be able to hear you, and the two of you must share a language.

    If you succeed on the check and the creature is hostile to you, it has disadvantage on attack rolls against targets other than you and canít make opportunity attacks against targets other than you. This effect lasts for 1 minute, until one of your companions attacks the target or affects it with a spell, or until you and the target are more than 60 feet apart.

    If you succeed on the check and the creature isnít hostile to you, it is frightened by you for 1 minute. While frightened, it cannot make take an action against you. This effect ends immediately if you or your companions do anything friendly towards it.


    Seems reasonable, is the main propose of this to use your wrathful reprisal? Maybe when frighting non-hostile creatures you can target multiple people to try and clear the crowd a bit more. And once again with those creatures immune to fear.

    Wrathful Reprisal
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    Beginning at 13th level, when an attacker that you can see misses you with an attack, you can use your reaction to make an attack against that creature.

    You also gain an additional way to use your Sneak Attack; when making an attack of opportunity on a foe, you donít need advantage or for another enemy of the target to be within 5 feet of it to use your Sneak Attack.


    Pretty powerful first feature, allowing for rogues to take sneak attacks on other creatures without requiring them to back off (dealing 1d8+7d6 for getting hit with 3d10). Second feature doesn't seem to useful just freeing up your bonus action. Can't you just use your Murderous intent feature at this point? You would likely have at least +12 to your intimidation checks.

    Menacing Assailant
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    At 17th level, the deadly presence your Cloak of The Dread exudes reaches its apex making your attacks as lethal as they are precise. Once per round, you can add an additional 1d6 to your Sneak Attack damage against a creature that is frightened or under the effect of your Dreadful Provocation equal to your Charisma modifier, no less than 1. You also have advantage on all Charisma (Intimidation) checks.


    Excellent cap stone ability if not a little to strong. A potential extra 5d6 (5d6+9d6) pushes you past a 20th level rogues sneak attack ability (10d6). If you were wanting to change this maybe do half of your cha mod rounded down.
    Last edited by thisdude901; 2019-05-20 at 10:26 AM.
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    Default Re: Intimidation Rogue [5e Subclass]

    Cloak Of The Dread is basically +Charisma to-hit, since Rogues only get one attack.
    Devotion Paladins have the same thing, only it takes an action, lasts one minute, and is usable once per short rest.
    In other words, that's WAY too good.

    Murderous Intent is also way too good. You have Expertise-very few monsters or NPCs have so much as proficiency, let alone Expertise. Combined with Cloak Of The Dread, you'll miss EXCEEDINGLY rarely.

    Dreadful Provocation is also too good, but not QUITE as badly overtuned.

    Wrathful Reprisal is WAY TOO GOOD. Similar to a high-level Berserker ability, but instead of hitting for 2d6+9 or so damage, you hit for something like 8d6+5.

    Menacing Assailant is a combination of too good and also very boring.
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    Default Re: Intimidation Rogue [5e Subclass]

    Quote Originally Posted by thisdude901 View Post
    Wrathful Reprisal
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    Beginning at 13th level, when an attacker that you can see misses you with an attack, you can use your reaction to make an attack against that creature.

    You also gain an additional way to use your Sneak Attack; when making an attack of opportunity on a foe, you donít need advantage or for another enemy of the target to be within 5 feet of it to use your Sneak Attack.


    Pretty powerful first feature, allowing for rogues to take sneak attacks on other creatures without requiring them to back off (dealing 1d8+7d6 for getting hit with 3d10). Second feature doesn't seem to useful just freeing up your bonus action. Can't you just use your Murderous intent feature at this point? You would likely have at least +12 to your intimidation checks.
    Great notes, much appreciated. I'm thinking of making the first ability a static +2 that you can use a number of times equal to your modifier per long rest.

    However this part I wasn't sure what you meant. Wrathful Reprisal only works on reactions, so BA doesn't really come into it. The second ability is more flavor than anything, as the marauder's favorite foe is a fleeing one.

    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    Cloak Of The Dread is basically +Charisma to-hit, since Rogues only get one attack.
    Devotion Paladins have the same thing, only it takes an action, lasts one minute, and is usable once per short rest.
    In other words, that's WAY too good.

    Murderous Intent is also way too good. You have Expertise-very few monsters or NPCs have so much as proficiency, let alone Expertise. Combined with Cloak Of The Dread, you'll miss EXCEEDINGLY rarely.

    Dreadful Provocation is also too good, but not QUITE as badly overtuned.

    Wrathful Reprisal is WAY TOO GOOD. Similar to a high-level Berserker ability, but instead of hitting for 2d6+9 or so damage, you hit for something like 8d6+5.

    Menacing Assailant is a combination of too good and also very boring.
    I get you think its strong but I'm not sure how Wrathful Reprisal is "way too good" its definitely the weakest ability. It doesn't really compare to the Beserker ability. Burning a reaction makes the rogue far more vulnerable as they can no longer use uncanny dodge. Same is true for Murderous Intent, you're a rouge keeping yourself in harms way, so I think its a fair trade. However you do make a good point about the two abilities stacking. Maybe make them both a BA?

    What about Menacing Assailant is boring? What makes for a more appealing capstone?
    Last edited by Zetram; 2019-05-21 at 04:00 AM.

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    Default Re: Intimidation Rogue [5e Subclass]

    However this part I wasn't sure what you meant. Wrathful Reprisal only works on reactions, so BA doesn't really come into it. The second ability is more flavor than anything, as the marauder's favorite foe is a fleeing one.
    Yeah my bad read it as Swashbucklers alternative for some reason.
    You also gain an additional way to use your Sneak Attack; when making an attack of opportunity on a foe, you donít need advantage or for another enemy of the target to be within 5 feet of it to use your Sneak Attack.
    Alright so this a bit strong dealing 1d8+7d6, I'd put in the Swashbucklers "no other creatures are within 5 feet of you" restriction for some sense of pattern and it would weaken it a bit, also maybe only do half rounded down of sneak attack damage?
    Last edited by thisdude901; 2019-05-21 at 09:54 AM.
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    Default Re: Intimidation Rogue [5e Subclass]

    Thanks again for the notes!

    I made some pretty radical changes and I think I was able to tune it down, while still keeping the deadly feel that I was looking for.

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    Default Re: Intimidation Rogue [5e Subclass]

    Murderous Intent is still FAR too good. It's way easier to pump your Intimidate high enough that you'll never fail, giving you advantage on basically any attack you make.
    Also, it needs a range limitation.

    Wrathful Reprisal is still too good as well. It's now limited, but not by THAT much.
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    Default Re: Intimidation Rogue [5e Subclass]

    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    Murderous Intent is still FAR too good. It's way easier to pump your Intimidate high enough that you'll never fail, giving you advantage on basically any attack you make.
    Also, it needs a range limitation.

    Wrathful Reprisal is still too good as well. It's now limited, but not by THAT much.
    ON topic of advantage on basically any attack... Have you seen revised ranger. At least it cost you something, something vital to a rouge, they're survivability. The range is a good point though.

    I'm not sure how it's too good, but I think your undervaluing the trade off being made when a rogue uses his reaction for offense.

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