Is Belkar still Chaotic Evil?

[RatElemental]

I don't think Good and Evil work like that. You don't have a ledger and once you get a net balance you become that alignment, you are good or evil via intent and attempted actions. If Belkar sincerely sought to redeem himself and personally apologize to every person he hurt, then tripped and died on the first day he still would no longer be evil. Maybe not Good yet, but certainly not evil.

Edit: Belkar is still totally evil though. There isn't much suggesting any transition in that, he came to a small personality change by realizing they were going to kill him if he didn't act better. His relationship with Durkon is touching but hardly enough to shift him from self-serving jerk to good guy.

It can shift him from murderous psycho to self serving jerk though. Self serving jerks tend to fall into neutral, see: Enor and Gannji, Pre-Realization Vaarsuvius, Therkla, Julia, etc.

[Fish]

Said Chaotic Evil guard probably wasn't on the job 24/7/365 having no other interactions with any other sapient life forms except while acting as a guard.
So there would generally be other "off-the-clock actions" that would seal the deal of them NOT making Celestia.
Still, I grant the hypothetical argument.

The CE guard can love his family, protect his home, and so forth. And even if he does the occasional evil thing on his off-duty time, does it outweigh his other actions? I can’t answer that.

The question is not only, “What other actions can he be measured by?” but “Should we only measure based on actions taken?” I think you see my point, though, that neither actions nor intents alone are sufficient scales. It’s hard to develop a hard-and-fast rule for morality that covers all the possible configurations.

On the flip side though, take your random rampaging warlord who routinely enslaves and murdalizes and rapes and puts entire cities to the sword for giggles, burns people alive, etc.
If, at the last five seconds of his life he has a MASSIVE epiphany and truly regrets and repents every action he's ever taken and becomes absolutely Lawful Good in every possible manner for those last 5 seconds....
yea, too little too late, and if he's really LG, he should understand and accept "too little too late" when his judgement comes.

Even if he’s got more than 5 seconds. As long as he doesn’t have enough time to do more good than he ever did evil, the argument still applies.

[KorvinStarmast]

Even if he’s got more than 5 seconds. As long as he doesn’t have enough time to do more good than he ever did evil, the argument still applies.

Redemption isn't a digital thing.
It is an analogue thing, a subjective thing, and a non linear thing.

It's a thing from the heart, not the mind.

[Fish]

Obviously. I have been arguing that “totality of actions” is an insufficient metric.

I was merely pointing out that, in the argument presented, the five-second timeframe was arbitrary. With respect to the position being forwarded, any duration inadequate for atonement would do — not that I believed in the “atonement as a totality of actions” position myself.

[Fey]

I mean… …He certainly has done some evil stuff… …But… …Recently he is pushing more chaotic neutral even to chaotic good at times…

So let us discuss… the homicidal halfling…

Here we go again...
via Imgflip Meme Generator

[Wizard_Lizard]

Redemption isn't a digital thing.
It is an analogue thing, a subjective thing, and a non linear thing.

It's a thing from the heart, not the mind.

the heart is for blood pumping. Why does everyone relate it to emotion.

[Fyraltari]

the heart is for blood pumping. Why does everyone relate it to emotion.

That I can tell you in one word!

Seriously, though, it's because your heart beats faster and stronger when you get emotionnally invested.

[Wizard_Lizard]

That I can tell you in one word!

Seriously, though, it's because your heart beats faster and stronger when you get emotionnally invested.

thanks!
the problem with this forum is that when I ask snarky rhetorical questions, I get scientific answers.
Serves me right...