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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Origins of Purple Quiddity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wizard_Lizard View Post
    world turtles
    Lion-turtles.
    Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
    Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
    Our battles don’t hit theheadlines or shake the earth
    But they are few, can’t be everywhere, and we, many
    So, when the world or universe needs saving, they come
    But when people needs saving, we are the ones to appear
    We're underdogs, but we rise up to the challenge to be heroes.
    (Wishing Joe, a low-powered superhero)

    "I really like the Geek Math'ology we do here"

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    Default Re: Origins of Purple Quiddity?

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    Because the actual plotline is "the gods want food", and so alternative food sources are important.
    the plotline is ONE god wants food. the rest already have it.

    if we're eating dinner together, and i'm trying to get your help in making my sister stop stealing my food, then that doesn't entitle you to know every meal I've ever eaten in history. i just don't want my food being stolen.
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    Default Re: Origins of Purple Quiddity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Draconi Redfir View Post
    the plotline is ONE god wants food. the rest already have it.

    if we're eating dinner together, and i'm trying to get your help in making my sister stop stealing my food, then that doesn't entitle you to know every meal I've ever eaten in history. i just don't want my food being stolen.
    Does this lemon and clam casserole make me look fat?
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    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by greenstone View Post
    Player agency doesn't mean they get to roll for everything. Agency means that they control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also quite handsome) or so I am told ... by 2D8HP

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    Default Re: Origins of Purple Quiddity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Draconi Redfir View Post
    the plotline is ONE god wants food. the rest already have it.

    if we're eating dinner together, and i'm trying to get your help in making my sister stop stealing my food, then that doesn't entitle you to know every meal I've ever eaten in history. i just don't want my food being stolen.
    That you consider it your food means you want the food too.

    If you know about another source of food besides what's on the table right now, then that may just solve the issue.

    Even if you think that source is depleted, always worth to check it.

    In particular when your sister is getting ready to burn down your house just to gobble up whatever charred remains are left if she doesn't get food now.
    Last edited by deuterio12; 2019-05-20 at 06:44 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: Origins of Purple Quiddity?

    The gods are not omnipotent. They, too, follow cosmic rules that exist independently of them.

    One such cosmic rule is that each god is attuned to a quiddity. But apparently, collectively, the gods of a pantheon have power over sharing it or not.

    Another rule is belief can ascend mortals to godhood.

    When the Dark One ascended, nobody wanted to share quiddity with him. As a god can't be without quiddity and gods can't prevent ascension, the universe had to grant him a new one.
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    The scouring of the Shire never happened. That's right. After reading books I, II, and III, I stopped reading when the One Ring was thrown into Mount Doom. The story ends there. Nothing worthwhile happened afterwards. Middle-Earth was saved.

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    Default Re: Origins of Purple Quiddity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goblin_Priest View Post
    The gods are not omnipotent. They, too, follow cosmic rules that exist independently of them.

    One such cosmic rule is that each god is attuned to a quiddity. But apparently, collectively, the gods of a pantheon have power over sharing it or not.

    Another rule is belief can ascend mortals to godhood.
    Precisely, there are cosmic rules beyond the power of the gods, and those rules happen to give us the origin of those gods-ascended mortals through belief.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goblin_Priest View Post
    When the Dark One ascended, nobody wanted to share quiddity with him. As a god can't be without quiddity and gods can't prevent ascension, the universe had to grant him a new one.
    And the reason the gods didn't want to share any with him was because he was just a filthy goblinoid that was only meant to be killed for exp. How dare he ascend?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: Origins of Purple Quiddity?

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    If you know about another source of food besides what's on the table right now, then that may just solve the issue.

    Even if you think that source is depleted, always worth to check it.
    here's the thing though. we're at a resturaunt, and we're in our late 20's or so.


    so knowing what i ate when i was TWO isn't really helpful at all. and also none of your business.
    Last edited by Draconi Redfir; 2019-05-20 at 09:03 PM.
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    Default Re: Origins of Purple Quiddity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Draconi Redfir View Post
    here's the thing though. we're at a resturaunt, and we're in our late 20's or so.


    so knowing what i ate when i was TWO isn't really helpful at all. and also none of your business.
    So wait, you could already provide your own food at two years old?

    Because I'm pretty sure that you would have somebody else giving you food back then, in which case knowing who was doing it would be pretty useful in stopping your sister burning down whatever's place you're eating at.

    And yes it is my business knowing how we ended in this messy situation in the first place and whetever there isn't a better alternative.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: Origins of Purple Quiddity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    Of course, that raises the obvious question: where did the ideas come from?

    Turtles?.



    But where did World 1 come from?

    More turtles?

    That’s a lot of turtles.
    Indeed. Can thoughts exist in a universe that had never had any thinkers to think them? Can there be dreams without a dreamer?

    And if the OoTS gods coalesced spontaneously from the ideas within the Astral Plane, then why, given an infinity of timelessness and all possible ideas, did only a few dozen gods of four quiddities form and not all possible gods and quiddities? What of the Hindu Gods? The Egyptian Gods? The Aztec Gods? etc. Why does the Southern Pantheon contain only the Twelve and not any other Chinese/Japanese gods?

  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: Origins of Purple Quiddity?

    you know, never mind my post on deep meaningful philosophy lets talk about turtles.
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  11. - Top - End - #41
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    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Default Re: Origins of Purple Quiddity?

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    Even if you think that source is depleted, always worth to check it.
    Do you know how your “hunger” is tracked in some video games, and if you don’t eat enough you die?

    And do you know how you usually start those games reasonably full, so that you don’t have to immediately scrounge around for a tin of spinach and a can opener?

    When you’re about on level 20 and you realize you’ve somehow run out of food and are about to die, what happens?

    Do you think: “What was I eating before the game started? I should be eating that now!”

    Or do you think: “If i polymorph into a rust monster, can I eat this extra armor?”

    The current problems aren’t going to be solved by the existing gods eating whatever foods existed before existence itself existed.

    No, the current problems will be solved by Hel zapping herself with a wand of polymorph and trying to eat her own armor.
    Last edited by Dion; 2019-05-21 at 07:54 AM.

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    Default Re: Origins of Purple Quiddity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    Well, the current problems aren’t going to be solved by the existing gods eating whatever foods existed before existence itself existed.
    Indeed, can't eat what never existed in the first place.

    The only food that ever existed for gods is faith/belief/worship, meaning it needed to already be there before the first god came to be. There's no paradox, just that mortals came first, and you just need to look at a science book to learn how. Hint: it includes f****** for making babies, which is a confirmed thing in the comic. Mortals can multiply just fine by themselves.

    And mortals can also make gods.
    Last edited by deuterio12; 2019-05-21 at 08:00 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

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    Default Re: Origins of Purple Quiddity?

    Or the Gods spawned with their ‘‘bellies’’ full.
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    Default Re: Origins of Purple Quiddity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Or the Gods spawned with their ‘‘bellies’’ full.
    Or we are dealing with a standard case of scaffolding evolution. The primordial gods didn't need all these things to survive, but with a rich diet, they've grown to such complexity that they can no longer survive with the mere old methods of sustenance.

    There was a time when we could filter air from water through our gills. That doesn't mean we still can, or can easily undo the changes that have brought us here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

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    Default Re: Origins of Purple Quiddity?

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    Indeed, can't eat what never existed in the first place.

    The only food that ever existed for gods is faith/belief/worship, meaning it needed to already be there before the first god came to be.
    In-world and in-fiction, OoTS the deities of the four quidities preceded the (many) worlds. Which leads us to ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Or we are dealing with a standard case of scaffolding evolution. The primordial gods didn't need all these things to survive, but with a rich diet, they've grown to such complexity that they can no longer survive with the mere old methods of sustenance.

    There was a time when we could filter air from water through our gills. That doesn't mean we still can, or can easily undo the changes that have brought us here.
    This is based on the idea that although the deities may have formed from concepts in the Astral plane, they do have at least some ability to change, albeit slowly or to a limited extent, based on how they interact with that connected to them.

    For example, they learned teamwork as a survival skill when put under the stress of the Snarl showing up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by greenstone View Post
    Player agency doesn't mean they get to roll for everything. Agency means that they control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also quite handsome) or so I am told ... by 2D8HP

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    Default Re: Origins of Purple Quiddity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Or we are dealing with a standard case of scaffolding evolution. The primordial gods didn't need all these things to survive, but with a rich diet, they've grown to such complexity that they can no longer survive with the mere old methods of sustenance.

    There was a time when we could filter air from water through our gills. That doesn't mean we still can, or can easily undo the changes that have brought us here.

    Grey Wolf
    Yeah, but unlike us these would be the same individuals at both point of their evolution rather than lung-people being descended from gill-people.

    ...

    Great, now I want a fantasy race of fish-creatures calling humans lung-people.
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    Default Re: Origins of Purple Quiddity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Yeah, but unlike us these would be the same individuals at both point of their evolution rather than lung-people being descended from gill-people.

    ...

    Great, now I want a fantasy race of fish-creatures calling humans lung-people.
    D&D already beat you to it.
    Sahaguin.
    Sea Elves
    Merfolk
    Tritons
    ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by greenstone View Post
    Player agency doesn't mean they get to roll for everything. Agency means that they control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also quite handsome) or so I am told ... by 2D8HP

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    Default Re: Origins of Purple Quiddity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Yeah, but unlike us these would be the same individuals at both point of their evolution rather than lung-people being descended from gill-people.
    You tell that to frogs. Or to adult lactose intolerant people.

    More seriously, the gods clearly do change, sometimes radically, world after world. They are subject to evolutionary pressures, just not natural selection.

    Grey Wolf
    Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2019-05-21 at 09:39 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

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    Default Re: Origins of Purple Quiddity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    You tell that to frogs. Or to adult lactose intolerant people.

    More seriously, the gods clearly do change, sometimes radically, world after world. They are subject to evolutionary pressures, just not natural selection.

    Grey Wolf
    That’s fair.

    Edit: Actually they are subject to natural selection as Thor states that some gods did not survive their native world. It’s random mutations they lack.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2019-05-21 at 09:45 AM.

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    Default Re: Origins of Purple Quiddity?

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    There's no paradox:
    You can’t set up a situation, call it a “paradox”, and then solve the “paradox” by creating exactly the same paradox.

    We know the universe exists, and some mortals were created by gods, and some gods were created by mortals. Beyond that, we don’t know, and since it’s a fictional world we have no way to perform experiments on any hypothesis we might have, so all we have is wild guesses.

    You can’t go around shouting “ha ha, paradox, I destroy your computer!” like you’re Captain Kirk and expect to be taken seriously.

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    Default Re: Origins of Purple Quiddity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    You tell that to frogs. Or to adult lactose intolerant people.

    More seriously, the gods clearly do change, sometimes radically, world after world. They are subject to evolutionary pressures, just not natural selection.

    Grey Wolf
    Also, if the gods are created from collectives of memes, it's possible that those meme collectives might be internally competitive. This could lead to a variant of natural selection where the most successful conception of a deity goes on to shape that deity.

    In any case, you have the right of it. Canalization and specialization are very much things in evolution, and non-generalist taxa are usually optimized for the environment/ecosystem in which they currently exist. In a belief-rich environment, deities that are dependent on it, but more powerful for it, would be favored over self-sufficient generalist deities.
    Last edited by RifleAvenger; 2019-05-21 at 12:27 PM.

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    Default Re: Origins of Purple Quiddity?


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    Default Re: Origins of Purple Quiddity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wizard_Lizard View Post
    maybe the snarl destroyed their last food source?
    Personally I think that the snarl is an embodiement of rich burlew....
    Because, here me out....
    The gods (Rich Burlew's creativity) created the first world (story), but he couldn't decide how to make it, and then scrapped (snarled) the idea.

    The next world, Rich created with more planning, but even then, he grew tired of it, and snarled it
    Each time, he becomes more invested in the story, and so it stays around longer.
    He went through loads of ideas, and the graveyard in the astral plane could symbolize a file for all of his unfinished works.

    It would even explain why the world is a prison for the snarl... He trapped himself into making it

    But this idea, this world, has something new... some new source of inspiration, maybe something that he found within himself.

    This idea, this story, this world may have what it takes to survive the snarl...
    I still think that this might be the case....
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    And of course Lizard Wizard (Lizardfolk Sorcerer)

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    Default Re: Origins of Purple Quiddity?

    Yeah, the whole question seems...strange on its face. Quiddity seems to be extant. It doesn't seem to need an origin. It's just part of Divinity. We aren't ever told if the Gods pulled into other Pantheons had their own or if they somehow started with Quiddity from an existing color by merit of belief. I can only conclude the following.

    1. Quiddity is a part of the Divine world. It comes in shades and those shades allow for complexity.

    2. Quiddity is malleable by belief.

    3. We have only one example of a Quiddity not being the colors we're familiar with.

    4. We have multiple examples of Gods raised from mortal life.

    5. We have no indication their Quiddity before they were brought in.

    6. We know that if they weren't brought in by other Pantheons, the Gods raised from Mortal Stock simply couldn't survive.

    7. We therefore cannot rule out that other Mortal made Gods had other Quiddity Colors, refused to join up with the other Gods and were killed when the world was destroyed. We know that there were such Gods by word of God after all. How could they have died if they shared a Quiddity with the existing Pantheons?


    Conclusion: We don't know enough to even propose an origin with anything close to approaching a hypothesis let alone pin it down.

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    Default Re: Origins of Purple Quiddity?

    We know there hasn't been a new Quiddity until now because Thor told us so, and Rich has gone on record as saying that you can almost always trust what his characters say out loud as being true, so long as it isn't a very obvious lie. This is because dialogue is his main means of exposition, and he doesn't seem to be fond of the unreliable narrator trope; if he's telling you something through dialogue, either it's true, or it's a lie for a very good narrative reason you're going to see.

    As for where all the mortal-ascended gods have gone, my guess is that they tend to wither and die off over time, because they're not as established as the "main" gods, and so either don't survive the interim period between worlds because they don't have a backlog of souls built up to sustain them for that long, or they do survive that interim period, but simply can't establish a new following in the new world because they don't know how; the first time was a fluke.

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    Default Re: Origins of Purple Quiddity?

    Quote Originally Posted by HorizonWalker View Post
    We know there hasn't been a new Quiddity until now because Thor told us so, and Rich has gone on record as saying that you can almost always trust what his characters say out loud as being true, so long as it isn't a very obvious lie. This is because dialogue is his main means of exposition, and he doesn't seem to be fond of the unreliable narrator trope; if he's telling you something through dialogue, either it's true, or it's a lie for a very good narrative reason you're going to see.

    As for where all the mortal-ascended gods have gone, my guess is that they tend to wither and die off over time, because they're not as established as the "main" gods, and so either don't survive the interim period between worlds because they don't have a backlog of souls built up to sustain them for that long, or they do survive that interim period, but simply can't establish a new following in the new world because they don't know how; the first time was a fluke.
    ^ This, basically.

    in other words, if a world exists for one thousand years, and for 900 of those years you only have the standard northern pantheon, (Odin, thor, loki, etc) and then in the last 100 years, "Balugo the Strange" ascends into the north, there likely won't be enough time for Balugo to adjust to godhood, he'd still be a young, almost infant god by the time the world comes to a close. Fewer mortals may even know he exists, and even if everyone knows he exists, he'd only have access to 100 years worth of souls, while the other gods have 1000 years worth of souls running around in their respective afterlives.

    Ascended gods either have to ascend REALLY early, or somehow get a lot of souls all at once. It's possible the Dark One got this since he has all three branches of Goblinoids under him, and two of the three seem to reproduce and die in high numbers, but it's hard to say right now if he'd survive to the next world or not.
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  27. - Top - End - #57
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    Default Re: Origins of Purple Quiddity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wizard_Lizard View Post
    Simple.
    It existed because the plot needed it to!
    oh.
    You wanted a proper answer.....
    sorry...
    With this comic's penchant for meta? That could be an answer. Maybe the plot itself is some kind of entity? Or the call to adventure itself... I dunno. Would take a Rich-er man than I to really know what that would look like
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    Default Re: Origins of Purple Quiddity?

    Suppose the world represents a D&D campaign, and The Snarl represents every D&D campaigns tendency to eventually fall apart.

    Then in this scenario, The Dark One is Ed Greenwood, and the Purple Quiddity is Forgotten Realms.

  29. - Top - End - #59
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2015

    Default Re: Origins of Purple Quiddity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    Suppose the world represents a D&D campaign, and The Snarl represents every D&D campaigns tendency to eventually fall apart.

    Then in this scenario, The Dark One is Ed Greenwood, and the Purple Quiddity is Forgotten Realms.
    That is being too generous to Ed Greenwood. I'd have gone with the OGl as the Purple Quiddity.

  30. - Top - End - #60
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Magrathea
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Origins of Purple Quiddity?

    I imagine that Purple Quiddity (or rather, any new kind) is essentially being devoid of any other religious teachings. Perhaps it goes further to even rejecting the other pantheons because of justified hatred, which would be kind of sad but also interesting since it means the Gods specifically cannot cause a new Quiddity to appear.
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    It shall be swift and ruthless. Unless any Ruths intend to join, in which case it shall be ruthful.
    Purple is the color of humorous descriptions made up on the fly
    Green is the color of serious conversation about theoretical ideas, if transitioning from other stuff
    Blue is the color of irony and sarcasm


    In the end, its all in the cards...

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