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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Scythe for which martial discipline?

    My player fights with scythe (more fluff than optimization reasons), and decided to take a crusader on next level. I'd like not to shorten his options because of his weapon. Which discipline(s) would you associate scythe with?

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Beholder

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    Default Re: Scythe for which martial discipline?

    Devoted Spirit.

    As in devoted to farming.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Scythe for which martial discipline?

    Quote Originally Posted by maxion View Post
    My player fights with scythe (more fluff than optimization reasons), and decided to take a crusader on next level. I'd like not to shorten his options because of his weapon. Which discipline(s) would you associate scythe with?
    why would using a scythe shorten his options? iirc very few of the disciplines actually require using their preferred weapons for anything.
    A neat custom class for 3.5 system
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94616

    A good set of benchmarks for PF/3.5
    https://rpgwillikers.wordpress.com/2...y-the-numbers/

    An alternate craft point system I made for 3.5
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...t-Point-system

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    Randuir's Avatar

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    Default Re: Scythe for which martial discipline?

    Quote Originally Posted by zlefin View Post
    why would using a scythe shorten his options? iirc very few of the disciplines actually require using their preferred weapons for anything.
    pretty much this. IIRC there is one feat that interacts with discipline weapons, and the swordsage gets weapon focus for all weapons in one discipline, and that's it.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Scythe for which martial discipline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Randuir View Post
    pretty much this. IIRC there is one feat that interacts with discipline weapons, and the swordsage gets weapon focus for all weapons in one discipline, and that's it.
    Pretty sure it's only Setting Sun and Tiger Claw. You can even use a good half of Shadow Hand and Diamond Mind with a bow.

    My joke still stands.

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Scythe for which martial discipline?

    Quote Originally Posted by zlefin View Post
    why would using a scythe shorten his options? iirc very few of the disciplines actually require using their preferred weapons for anything.
    If he for example would decide to go for Clarion Commander (they have both tripper and sneak attacker in team), which requires White Raven Defense, which works better with favored weapon.
    White Raven have a halberd so why not a scythe.
    Last edited by maxion; 2019-05-20 at 06:45 AM.

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    StreamOfTheSky's Avatar

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    Default Re: Scythe for which martial discipline?

    I'd say Shadow Hand makes the most sense, given the scythe's thematic depiction. Which influences the mechanics, given that it's a x4 crit weapon.

    If not Shadow Hand (currently its only 2H weapon is spiked chain, maybe you want to keep it that way?), the next most logical choice is Iron Heart. IH literally has a maneuver called "Scything Blade," and the Finishing Move strike maneuver is thematically in line w/ the scythe's aesthetics of finishing someone off with one deadly strike.

    EDIT: Oh...and of course the player's a Crusader, and thus has neither of those...
    I guess Devoted Spirit if he worships Nerull or something would make sense... Or he can go into Ruby Knight Vindicator or Eternal Blade to access those other disciplines... Those are pretty popular PrC's for Crusader, and of course Master of Nine gets all of them, though much harder to enter.
    Last edited by StreamOfTheSky; 2019-05-21 at 04:31 PM.

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    RangerGuy

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    Default Re: Scythe for which martial discipline?

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterKaws View Post
    Devoted Spirit.

    As in devoted to farming.
    ^^THIS!! lol

    On a side note did you ever see the scythe vs. weedwhacker race video?

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Scythe for which martial discipline?

    Quote Originally Posted by RNightstalker View Post
    On a side note did you ever see the scythe vs. weedwhacker race video?
    Woow thats super nice, thanks for info :D:D

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Scythe for which martial discipline?

    I forget, does Crusader get Desert Wind? I recall there being some nice scythe synergies there...

    EDIT: It maaaaay be I am misremembering because it basically turns you into the Guild Wars Dervish. Who use Scythes.
    Last edited by weckar; 2019-05-24 at 10:42 AM.

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Scythe for which martial discipline?

    A scythe is a peasant's weapon, actually its not a weapon at all scythes are terribly balanced and angled for fighting a randomly chosen stick is likely a better weapon than a scythe. If caught with noting else, I might attempt to space a wild animal with a scythe but it would be dropped as soon as that failed. Setting aside reality and embracing the fantasy of the scythe it isn't a weapon associated with martial mastery and probably shouldn't have the minor perks associated with being a favored weapon of a discipline. If you insist on giving it one then, yes devoted spirit.
    Last edited by Hand_of_Vecna; 2019-05-24 at 10:58 AM.

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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Scythe for which martial discipline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hand_of_Vecna View Post
    A scythe is a peasant's weapon, actually its not a weapon at all scythes are terribly balanced and angled for fighting a randomly chosen stick is likely a better weapon than a scythe. If caught with noting else, I might attempt to space a wild animal with a scythe but it would be dropped as soon as that failed. Setting aside reality and embracing the fantasy of the scythe it isn't a weapon associated with martial mastery and probably shouldn't have the minor perks associated with being a favored weapon of a discipline. If you insist on giving it one then, yes devoted spirit.
    Um... sure ignore history. The reality is yes the traditional farm scythe isn't well setup for fighting with. However, the war scythe which is created by taking the blade off a traditional scythe turning it 90 degrees and re-hafting it was a very powerful and feared weapon. It was literally the weapon of peasant armies and so feared that governments outlawed them...
    Last edited by liquidformat; 2019-05-24 at 01:11 PM.

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    Default Re: Scythe for which martial discipline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hand_of_Vecna View Post
    A scythe is a peasant's weapon, actually its not a weapon at all scythes are terribly balanced and angled for fighting a randomly chosen stick is likely a better weapon than a scythe. If caught with noting else, I might attempt to space a wild animal with a scythe but it would be dropped as soon as that failed. Setting aside reality and embracing the fantasy of the scythe it isn't a weapon associated with martial mastery and probably shouldn't have the minor perks associated with being a favored weapon of a discipline. If you insist on giving it one then, yes devoted spirit.
    Obviously someone's never seen Ruby Rose fight.

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Scythe for which martial discipline?

    Quote Originally Posted by liquidformat View Post
    Um... sure ignore history. The reality is yes the traditional farm scythe isn't well setup for fighting with. However, the war scythe which is created by taking the blade off a traditional scythe turning it 90 degrees and re-hafting it was a very powerful and feared weapon. It was literally the weapon of peasant armies and so feared that governments outlawed them...
    While the first War Scythe may have actually been made from a scythe blade turned 90 degrees and rehafted I'm not sure that's an agreed fact. What is a fact is that the pieces that found their way to museums were clearly weapon heads created to be polearm heads rather than repurposed farm implements. The OP said scythe not War Scythe so I really don't see why your bringing up. The PHB has a picture



    which seems to be a fantasy amalgamation with;
    blade at a 90 degree angle as the farm implement
    two wooden handles of the tool
    the shaft curves in the opposite direction from the blade's point like the tool

    however the shaft may not have the other bend that makes the bladed parallel with the ground when the scythe is swept in front of the user.

    The head looks like it was crafted with the weight of a polearm head.
    Last edited by Hand_of_Vecna; 2019-05-24 at 10:23 PM.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Scythe for which martial discipline?

    If you double edged the blade I am sure a reasonable fighting style could be developed.

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    Beholder

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    Default Re: Scythe for which martial discipline?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosStar View Post
    Obviously someone's never seen Ruby Rose fight.
    Anime(if RWBY can even be called that) is never a source for realistic data. What may look like a realistic fighting style might actually look completely different if you consider balance and momentum. Especially for scythes, considering they're very unwieldy.

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Scythe for which martial discipline?

    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    If you double edged the blade I am sure a reasonable fighting style could be developed.
    Even with a proper edge there's still an issue of balance and general awkwardness. the typical fantasy scythe is like a katana at the end of a pole. Certainly not something I'd feel safe with someone swinging around near me, but not a viable weapon. You could shorten the blade of course, but if we look at other pole arms for reference you'll find the heads of piercing polearms we find them to be dainty by comparison. I suppose there is a possibility for a show weapon with a high intimidation factor which is only effective against lightly armored targets. You would be aiming to execute a draw cut (striking with the bottom of the blade and drawing the length of the curved blade across the victim), a ridiculously difficult maneuver to execute with a sword on the end of a stick, which the 20 X4 crit could be read as a very generous interpretation of.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hand_of_Vecna View Post
    two wooden handles of the tool
    the shaft curves in the opposite direction from the blade's point like the tool
    This element particularly struck me in the when I looked at the art again. Fantasy scythes often have the one handle further up the shaft and it's fairly easy to imagine that handle being useful in a fight and choreograph; leverage for full force blows, switching the grip to pull out a blade impaled in a victim, turning the shaft so a sword sliding down lodges between the handle and shaft. The second sideways handle near the butt end is really bad, and I can't even come up with a post hoc justification for it on something designed as a weapon.

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    StreamOfTheSky's Avatar

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    Default Re: Scythe for which martial discipline?

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterKaws View Post
    Anime(if RWBY can even be called that) is never a source for realistic data. What may look like a realistic fighting style might actually look completely different if you consider balance and momentum. Especially for scythes, considering they're very unwieldy.
    Why are you and so many others in here acting like the character has to be "realistic"? This is D&D, not a Civil War re-enactment.

    In D&D, the scythe isn't an unwieldy non-weapon that's actually a farmer's tool. It's the badass looking weapon of the Grim Reaper, that brings death with one good strike.
    Last edited by StreamOfTheSky; 2019-05-26 at 10:07 AM.

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    upho's Avatar

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    Default Re: Scythe for which martial discipline?

    Quote Originally Posted by StreamOfTheSky View Post
    Why are you and so many others in here acting like the character has to be "realistic"? This is D&D, not a Civil War re-enactment.

    In D&D, the scythe isn't an unwieldy non-weapon that's actually a farmer's tool. It's the badass looking weapon of the Grim Reaper, that brings death with one good strike.
    So much this.

    Example from own homebrew (shameless advertising):
    Spoiler: Badass Scythe Wielder
    Show

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    Default Re: Scythe for which martial discipline?

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterKaws View Post
    Anime(if RWBY can even be called that) is never a source for realistic data.
    Nor is 3.0/3.5's frack-awful artwork, for that matter.

    Like most of 3.x's artwork, the core equipment pictures look like they were drawn by someone that had heard of weapons, but in fact never actually seen one.

    Come to that, anime actually is probably a better source than 3.x artwork.

    I mean, it's not even as if they are, like, fantastical Hollywood versions of the weapons, they're both unrealistic AND look absolute crap.



    3.x is a great mechanical system but frack most of the artwork was awful, especially in core.
    Last edited by Aotrs Commander; 2019-05-26 at 08:50 PM.

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    BardGirl

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    Default Re: Scythe for which martial discipline?

    3.5 actually isn't super unrealistic so long as you go with the paradigm that RL tops out at level 4, maybe 5 for truly exceptional individuals, ad level 6 is superhuman.

    But yeah, screw realism, I want to play a wizardry and adventure hero, not Joe Normal.

    D&D scythes should totally be RWBY style monster cutters.

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    Default Re: Scythe for which martial discipline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander View Post
    3.x is a great mechanical system but frack most of the artwork was awful, especially in core.

    I'd argue the art was fine, it's just... orcish double axe. What even is that? It's a twoheaded battle axe (already something that's pretty uncommon because you're adding needless weight onto your weapon, which is why you tend to see more axes on one side, picks on the other), but then making it a double... ended... double headed axe... This is just ridiculous, I think. 4 axe blades like that is just silly
    In my game, no matter what the DM or our orc player say, I've just pretended the orc's carrying a klingon batleth because that's a more sensible design all around.

    Lotta weird concepts which were based on fantasy logic for weapons.

    On scythes, yeah, battle scythes are a thing- they were more like halberds but you did get peasantry weapons made from farming tools bashed and bished into proper war implements from time to time. Necessity is the mother of invention.

    The one we typically imagine is the one the Grim Reaper wields, for he must harvest the dead, as he rides from city to city, following the wake of War, Plague and Ruin.

    (ultimately imo the scythe is a very large hooked weapon, useful mainly for low sweeping attacks to trip people over whilst you ride upon a sturdy steed to create the force needed. If we were using real physics. Then your infantry units following your cavalry charge can pick off the fallen)
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