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2019-05-20, 01:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2013
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Clone spell + Animate Dead spell; Technical Support
Sooo... My DM and I are quite confused on the technical aspects of the clone spell. I have a gestalt necromancer. Base point is, if you use the clone spell (while living) but do not preserve the body; is this a viable source for animate dead (or create undead/greater undead), given all other conditions are met?
"If you can find a legal way to do it, then its allowed, if its not RAW, it isnt."- My GMIm the GMs sidekick, but i gotta follow the rules. - Myself
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2019-05-20, 02:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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2019-05-20, 02:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2013
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- California
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Re: Clone spell + Animate Dead spell; Technical Support
This could be abused heavily. I plan to use it to clone monsters. we play in an evil/antihero campaign and my necromancer is dedicated to Orcus. Im trying to earn a place as a general or commander by raising undead and using some sort of planar teleportation spell to send them to the Bone Palace. All the while using my undead minion to spread more undead across the world. I have an
apocalypseplague zombie (actually just a zombie with zombie rot). Highly funny part. I also play the role of non-magical healer. The necromancer uses asclepian doctor, and anyone he cant save, he animates.
Edit: At higher levels i could make clones of myself.Last edited by Ravenv13; 2019-05-20 at 03:07 PM. Reason: Missed a detail
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2019-05-20, 03:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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Re: Clone spell + Animate Dead spell; Technical Support
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2019-05-20, 03:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2013
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- California
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Re: Clone spell + Animate Dead spell; Technical Support
The clone of myself is purely comical. And i guess that combo by itself isnt broken. I Guess the broken part is the setup; having a "lair" and the capability to capture/experiment/harvest creatures repeatedly.
Edit: on the topic of cloning pc's barbarians or archetypes thereof would probably be best.Last edited by Ravenv13; 2019-05-20 at 03:32 PM.
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2019-05-20, 10:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2019
- Location
- Santa Barbara, California
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Re: Clone spell + Animate Dead spell; Technical Support
No.
Animated Zombies & Skeletons lose all hit dice from class.
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2019-05-21, 12:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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- Terra Australis
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Re: Clone spell + Animate Dead spell; Technical Support
My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
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2019-05-21, 10:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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2019-05-21, 10:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2019
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- Santa Barbara, California
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Re: Clone spell + Animate Dead spell; Technical Support
It's from the Book of Vile Darkness.
It is similar to the Zombie template, except you don't lose class levels, you retain mental ability scores, etc.
I personally think it's a solid LA +1 template.
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2019-05-21, 10:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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Re: Clone spell + Animate Dead spell; Technical Support
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2019-05-21, 04:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2010
Re: Clone spell + Animate Dead spell; Technical Support
That's actually a really interesting question. I don't think that there is any kind of RAW support for this one way or another so it would really be a DM call.
I think that it is pretty obvious that you can animate a dead pre-awakened clone based on racial HD, but as a DM I would say that class levels/memories would be based on the soul bound to the body as it died. It is impossible (AFAIK) to 'awaken' a clone with the base characters knowledge/abilities before the the death of the prior body, so I can't see any justification for undeath being able to tap into something that the meatsack never actually had.
There is actually a pretty good argument to support this in the Resurrection line of spells. No one can be brought back to life if they are undead so it would seem undeath tends to bind (and perhaps feed off of) the targets soul, and that would be a good basis for saying that undead made from the remains of someone who is still 'alive' in another body would not have access to that characters class levels/memories. So, a vampire trying to turn a wizard with a prepared Clone would get nothing more than a Vampire Spawn.
Note that this is not a RAW argument per se, I think that this is one of those niche cases where RAW bottoms out, but I think that the above is a playable and fair interpretation that gives power to the PCs (kill some good animate fodder and can make more for 5,000 gp a pop) while protecting them as well (proper cloning/resurrection contingencies prevent enemies from tapping the PCs power/knowledge through undead).
I think that the key here (as with all troublesome niche cases like this) is to just think through the consequences of you judgement (whichever way you decide to go), so you are not blindsided by the potential impact on the game, and to be consistent in your ruling.Avatar of awesome goodness courtesy of Cdr.Fallout.