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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Griffon

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    Default Shadowsilk armor

    Hi...

    I was looking into shadowsilk armor from ToM. It says that: Only armor that is made from cloth or leather can be crafted using shadowsilk. Then goes on to mention padded, leather and hide as the three option. Now my question is whether or not that includes all type or padded, leather and hide armor, because there are many versions of each and not only the three from PHB shown. So would I be able to make a Mammoth Leather armor out of shadowsilk? And what about Dragonhide?

    I assume all cloth, leather and hide armor is craftable in shadowsilk, but I would love to hear the communities take on this!

    Cheers!

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Shadowsilk armor

    I think that your using silk instead of whatever material it is. So instead of mammoth leather or Dragon hide or anything else it's just spidersilk.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Shadowsilk armor

    Also, dragonhide isn't a type, it's a material much like shadowsilk is. You could no more make shadowsilk dragonhide armor than you could could make alchemical copper mithral armor. You pick one material to substitute the armor, and follow whatever changes that calls for.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Griffon

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    Default Re: Shadowsilk armor

    Quote Originally Posted by DrMotives View Post
    Also, dragonhide isn't a type, it's a material much like shadowsilk is. You could no more make shadowsilk dragonhide armor than you could could make alchemical copper mithral armor. You pick one material to substitute the armor, and follow whatever changes that calls for.
    Hmm... But are there not different types of leather armor which is not based on different materials? Basically, what I'm asking is how do I make armor better that the three standard versions of padded, leader and hide shown in the table in ToM page 155?

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    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Shadowsilk armor

    Yeah, it is not very clear since shadowsilk does not have a listed price adjustment. A perfect example is to add it to Gnome Twist Cloth armor from Races of Stone. That armor is a standard type of cloth, not a special material. I would think it would cost the same +1,500 gp as it is the same AC bonus as the padded cloth, but no RAW answer.

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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Shadowsilk armor

    Here are the ones you can use:
    padded(phb)
    Leather (phb)
    Leather Scale (A&E)
    Hide(phb)
    sharkskin (RoF&SW)
    Feather cloak SS maybe)
    Silk Swathes (SS maybe)
    Mammoth Leather (RoS)

  7. - Top - End - #7
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    Thurbane's Avatar

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    Default Re: Shadowsilk armor

    Quote Originally Posted by ToM p.155
    Only armor that is made from cloth or leather can be crafted using shadow silk.
    Maybe not RAW (since pricing is only given for padded, leather or hide), but some other armors may meet this criteria.

    Cord (A&EG p.15 / OA p.75), Dhenuka (OA p.75), Gnome Twist Cloth (RoD p.159), Leather Scale (A&EG p.16 / OA p.77), Mammoth Leather (RoS p.157)...

    I'm sure there's others out there.

    Saying that someone reading RAW differently than you is "home brewing or house ruling, but that's fine" doesn't make you right, it just makes you seem pompous.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Griffon

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    Default Re: Shadowsilk armor

    Quote Originally Posted by liquidformat View Post
    Here are the ones you can use:
    padded(phb)
    Leather (phb)
    Leather Scale (A&E)
    Hide(phb)
    sharkskin (RoF&SW)
    Feather cloak SS maybe)
    Silk Swathes (SS maybe)
    Mammoth Leather (RoS)
    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    Maybe not RAW (since pricing is only given for padded, leather or hide), but some other armors may meet this criteria.

    Cord (A&EG p.15 / OA p.75), Dhenuka (OA p.75), Gnome Twist Cloth (RoD p.159), Leather Scale (A&EG p.16 / OA p.77), Mammoth Leather (RoS p.157)...

    I'm sure there's others out there.
    Thank you, that was what I was thinking, however, I do think that: DrMotives has a point:

    Quote Originally Posted by DrMotives View Post
    Also, dragonhide isn't a type, it's a material much like shadowsilk is. You could no more make shadowsilk dragonhide armor than you could could make alchemical copper mithral armor. You pick one material to substitute the armor, and follow whatever changes that calls for.
    The question is then, which armors differs in design as to make a difference in AC, Max Dex and Check penalty as to be different than the three types mentioned in ToM, without being make from a different material... or is DrMotives simply wrong here?

    CHeers

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Shadowsilk armor

    Quote Originally Posted by Max Caysey View Post
    The question is then, which armors differs in design as to make a difference in AC, Max Dex and Check penalty as to be different than the three types mentioned in ToM, without being make from a different material... or is DrMotives simply wrong here?

    CHeers
    So, I think the answer to that is a bit more complicated than we would like. Some armors, like the leather scale from OA or the snake & dinosaur skin armors from Serpent Kingdoms, are listed in the tables as armor types. These armors, however, are probably put in as a special material version of another armor. They could have said "leather is a special material that modifies that base armor this way, and can be used to modify scalemail", or just print a table entry for leather scale. I think off-hand, that leather scale is exactly the same as a chain shirt for the most part, just non-metallic. Exactly what is going on is more RAI than RAW, so how these decisions are made will vary from group to group.

    TL;DR I don't think that my answer or someone else's conflicting answer will be exactly right or wrong, we're all just proposing some guidelines.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Griffon

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    Default Re: Shadowsilk armor

    Quote Originally Posted by DrMotives View Post
    So, I think the answer to that is a bit more complicated than we would like. Some armors, like the leather scale from OA or the snake & dinosaur skin armors from Serpent Kingdoms, are listed in the tables as armor types. These armors, however, are probably put in as a special material version of another armor. They could have said "leather is a special material that modifies that base armor this way, and can be used to modify scalemail", or just print a table entry for leather scale. I think off-hand, that leather scale is exactly the same as a chain shirt for the most part, just non-metallic. Exactly what is going on is more RAI than RAW, so how these decisions are made will vary from group to group.

    TL;DR I don't think that my answer or someone else's conflicting answer will be exactly right or wrong, we're all just proposing some guidelines.
    This is the problem I'm trying to figure out. My best reading is simply finding any padded, leather and hide armor and simple substitute the material and thus the stats of the armor by following the rules giving in ToM. But I also see that most of these types of armors are actually already based on different materials to offer said difference from the PHB versions. However, I'm unsure of what the designers intended. Is Mammoth Leader armor any different than a normal leather armor, except for a thicker hide, thus equating to higher AC, or is it the tanning proces and amount of leather used to create the Mammoth Leader armor that improved upon the "normal" PHB version? And does it even matter?

    It seems that the table in ToB you can create three different armors, with the same material. So why does some provide more armor than others, if its the same material? Really, they should all just be padded, since its cloth. Since that's not what happens, this leads me to believe that you can replicate the effects of different armors (cloth, leather and hide) to some degree by possible changing how much shadow silk is used, or possibly how its sewn. Question then becomes can you replicate a Mammoth Leather Armor then? Or could you replicate a Spidersilk armor?

    Really, shadowsilk should have been a specific armor, like Nightscale armor, but instead they made it basically function like an armor template. So, as I see it, we are left with two options:

    1) Treat it like a template, meaning any type of armor made from cloth, leather or hide, can be made with Shadowsilk, or

    2) No matter what type of armor you make from Shadowsilk, its either going to be +1, +2, or +3 AC (As in the table in ToM), depending of how much shadowsilk you use. As in, thats the only options you have with shadowsilk because of its inherent properties.


    Personally, and correct me if am wrong, but I think most options in D&D 3.5, regarding specific materials, follow along the line of option 1 - that the material should be treating essentially like a template applicable for any padded, leader or hide.


    What do you guys think?
    Last edited by Max Caysey; 2019-05-21 at 07:05 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Shadowsilk armor

    Quote Originally Posted by Max Caysey View Post
    This is the problem I'm trying to figure out. My best reading is simply finding any padded, leather and hide armor and simple substitute the material and thus the stats of the armor by following the rules giving in ToM. But I also see that most of these types of armors are actually already based on different materials to offer said difference from the PHB versions. However, I'm unsure of what the designers intended. Is Mammoth Leader armor any different than a normal leather armor, except for a thicker hide, thus equating to higher AC, or is it the tanning proces and amount of leather used to create the Mammoth Leader armor that improved upon the "normal" PHB version? And does it even matter?

    It seems that the table in ToB you can create three different armors, with the same material. So why does some provide more armor than others, if its the same material? Really, they should all just be padded, since its cloth. Since that's not what happens, this leads me to believe that you can replicate the effects of different armors (cloth, leather and hide) to some degree by possible changing how much shadow silk is used, or possibly how its sewn. Question then becomes can you replicate a Mammoth Leather Armor then? Or could you replicate a Spidersilk armor?

    Really, shadowsilk should have been a specific armor, like Nightscale armor, but instead they made it basically function like an armor template. So, as I see it, we are left with two options:

    1) Treat it like a template, meaning any type of armor made from cloth, leather or hide, can be made with Shadowsilk, or

    2) No matter what type of armor you make from Shadowsilk, its either going to be +1, +2, or +3 AC (As in the table in ToM), depending of how much shadowsilk you use. As in, thats the only options you have with shadowsilk because of its inherent properties.


    Personally, and correct me if am wrong, but I think most options in D&D 3.5, regarding specific materials, follow along the line of option 1 - that the material should be treating essentially like a template applicable for any padded, leader or hide.


    What do you guys think?
    I think there are two interpretations of RAW. One being that any padded, leather or hide can be made with shadow silk regardless of what material its made with in the write-up. Second, you can only made the three armors in the table. No more, no less! - and no matter what, you can only choose to have any shadow silk armor either give 1 AC, 2 AC or 3 AC...

    Which one should be adopted, who knows...

    From a RAI, who knows...
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    tippy's posted, thread's over now

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