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    Default I am trying to steal a palace... Physically

    In an Asian themed game, the evil Lord of the area is being a giant butt and executing anything magical. Faeries, spirits (think Okami or Neoh type spirits, or like in Spirited Away) and because evil means he can be a hypocrite, he is making spirit infused warriors... But he is conquering other areas too... And all who oppose him get killed and their kids are mind controlled to work themselves to death in his palace.

    The idea is that I'd like to free the kids, and send a message by just ripping the top several layers off the Pagoda and taking it.
    12 level druid/warlock gestalt.

    This game is mostly a "if it's fun and not to imbalanced, go for it" game, so all books allowed, likely even PF if I can justify it, money is not a problem...

    Edit:
    I work on a boat, so I'll be kinda on-and-off but I'll be checking frequently.
    The Pagoda is huge, 300x300 feet

    The ideas so far:
    1) Buff str as high as you can, get items for carry capacity, pick it up and teleport away

    2) Get it as supported as you can, lash it tight with vines and ropes, hook it to a giant flying creature (or many) and fly away

    3) Go find cloud Giants, have a cloud platform made to act as a foundation, using any trick you can, lift it up and put the palace on the platform and fly it away.

    3 is the current goal, using elements from plan s 1&2 to lift it, and flying creatures to move it after it's on the platform
    Last edited by jintoya; 2019-05-22 at 03:11 PM.

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    Default Re: I am trying to steal a palace... Physically

    What form does the mind control take? Depending on that, simply physically removing them may not save them.

    How big is this palace? Dimensions and/or weight would be nice. Is it small enough to be able to be animated by an animated object spell?

    Could a Roc or a flock of Rocs carry it off?

    Mirage arcana could create the illusion that it's gone. Combine with a suitable illusory monster (perhaps provided by major image) swooping in to lift it off, and a careful use of magnificent mansion to spirit away the kids by sending them through the door to a "new annex" of the palace. Mirage arcana lasts for as long as you concentrate plus an additional hour per level; honestly, the hour/level is most of the duration, unless you're willing to do nothing for a day or two. Get some compatriots to set up demolition gear to blow the real pagoda's top to rubble so the ruse is harder to discover when your illusion wears off.

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    Default Re: I am trying to steal a palace... Physically

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    What form does the mind control take? Depending on that, simply physically removing them may not save them.

    How big is this palace? Dimensions and/or weight would be nice. Is it small enough to be able to be animated by an animated object spell?

    Could a Roc or a flock of Rocs carry it off?

    Mirage arcana could create the illusion that it's gone. Combine with a suitable illusory monster (perhaps provided by major image) swooping in to lift it off, and a careful use of magnificent mansion to spirit away the kids by sending them through the door to a "new annex" of the palace. Mirage arcana lasts for as long as you concentrate plus an additional hour per level; honestly, the hour/level is most of the duration, unless you're willing to do nothing for a day or two. Get some compatriots to set up demolition gear to blow the real pagoda's top to rubble so the ruse is harder to discover when your illusion wears off.
    Well I just asked my DM the dimensions of the building, my guess is it's around 200x200' or so, Asian pagodas have high ceilings, so probably around 12' tall (per floor)...Its annoying because it gets progressively smaller the higher you go. I could just steal a single floor, I've got time to prep whatever I need and he has angered allot of fey who would likely help me for little too no cost, just to get back at him.
    The rok idea might be the best bet, I can cover it up with fog (maybe) to make a getaway
    I temporarily suppressed the mind control with a nat on my break enchant check previously, but I didn't see if it was an item that was doing it or just a mass spell effect, I can handle that after I've simply removed them from danger... Well that's the plan anyways.
    As a side note... The Lord might be an evil dragon
    Last edited by jintoya; 2019-05-21 at 11:16 AM.

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    Default Re: I am trying to steal a palace... Physically

    Unless you manage to lift also the foundations, a palace would be torn in pieces by a strenght great enough to move it, I guess.
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    Default Re: I am trying to steal a palace... Physically

    Quote Originally Posted by Conradine View Post
    Unless you manage to lift also the foundations, a palace would be torn in pieces by a strenght great enough to move it, I guess.
    Well, what about reducing it's Mass and casting iron wood on it (I have a Homebrew invocation that mimics that spell as a swift action) for stability?

    Also what about vines as lashings?

    Work time check in a few hours
    Last edited by jintoya; 2019-05-21 at 11:29 AM.

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    Default Re: I am trying to steal a palace... Physically

    The more you reduce the mass, the less damage when you lift. If you can turn enough wood into ironwood ( and the palace is mostly made of wood ) it would not break at all.


    Also what about vines as lashings?
    Mh. I guess that would distribute the weight and further reduce damage.

    Anyhow, expect a lot of internal damage ( broken windows, turned tables ecc. ). And if there's so much wood, it can also catch fire when lanters or torches fall down, so it's best to do that under daylight.
    Last edited by Conradine; 2019-05-21 at 11:34 AM.
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    Default Re: I am trying to steal a palace... Physically

    As an aside, if he and his minions are basically nonmagical, he's a mundane going up against superheroes supervillains supers with magic powers.

    I'm pretty sure this whole situation will resolve itself shortly.
    Last edited by MaxiDuRaritry; 2019-05-21 at 11:43 AM.
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    Default Re: I am trying to steal a palace... Physically

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxiDuRaritry View Post
    As an aside, if he and his minions are basically nonmagical, he's a mundane going up against superheroes supervillains supers with magic powers.

    I'm pretty sure this whole situation will resolve itself shortly.
    He's made warriors who are charged with spiritual/magic steroids. essentially turning them into half elementals or [element] benders from Avatar tLAB... But I can't tell them apart from normal units until they ignore 20+ damage from my elemented blast, I'll be destroying the staircase when I do this to limit reinforcements.

    when I started blasting things earlier, he outright laughed at me and then I had to run from a magical whatcha barrage... So there's plenty of magic.

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    Default Re: I am trying to steal a palace... Physically

    Quote Originally Posted by Conradine View Post
    The more you reduce the mass, the less damage when you lift. If you can turn enough wood into ironwood ( and the palace is mostly made of wood ) it would not break at all.




    Mh. I guess that would distribute the weight and further reduce damage.

    Anyhow, expect a lot of internal damage ( broken windows, turned tables ecc. ). And if there's so much wood, it can also catch fire when lanters or torches fall down, so it's best to do that under daylight.
    4-6 rok to lift, a buttload of vines and rope to help keep it in one piece, if I blew the supports as the rok fly off, we won't have to tear it apart, if I was selective about ironwood, it would not be too much heavier, especially if I threw all the paper walls and furniture out, blasted the end keeper of the roofing tiles etc... That would cause a rain of terracotta also.

    Toss all the lanterns out and the resulting fire might keep everyone busy.

    Edit: each floor is 300'x300' roughly, I'll update original post, and perhaps I'll try taking a big chunk of a single floor instead
    Last edited by jintoya; 2019-05-21 at 02:06 PM.

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    Default Re: I am trying to steal a palace... Physically

    Suggestion : make sure there are no living people in it. Then sever its foundations with Greater Stone Shape or Fabricate, buff your strength a lot (muleback cords help here) and pick it up. You can now Plane Shift it, as Plane Shift automatically takes anything you can carry.

    Conveniently, filling the whole place with poison gas will both take out all inhabitants (or make them flee) and it'll allow you the time needed to sever its foundations while everyone who isn't prepared for it rushes to find protection from alchemical gases.

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    Default Re: I am trying to steal a palace... Physically

    Quote Originally Posted by TalonOfAnathrax View Post
    Suggestion : make sure there are no living people in it. Then sever its foundations with Greater Stone Shape or Fabricate, buff your strength a lot (muleback cords help here) and pick it up. You can now Plane Shift it, as Plane Shift automatically takes anything you can carry.

    Conveniently, filling the whole place with poison gas will both take out all inhabitants (or make them flee) and it'll allow you the time needed to sever its foundations while everyone who isn't prepared for it rushes to find protection from alchemical gases.
    Well, I could try that, perhaps I can get some shape change cheese to lift it with my wild shape, but the point of this is to save the kids, and send the message that he isn't untouchable.
    If I pick a form that lets me lift more (more legs the better) and have the spell delayed a few rounds while I pick it up, after making it lighter and possibly using birds to drop some concoctions in key places, it might work

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    Default Re: I am trying to steal a palace... Physically

    When I was asking about the mind control, I meant less, "How can you break it?" or "What's causing it?" than "What is its nature?" i.e., is it a dominate effect that makes them walk around like puppets with no will of their own? Is it an irresistable command that makes them obey whether they like it or not, but they can choose how to obey as long as they're not trying to cheat it? Is it a charm effect that makes them love their Glorious Leader and 'willingly' work themselves to death just because they want him to be happy? Is it a suggestion-like effect that makes them think they enjoy the work so much they'd willingly give everything just for one more minute of serving in this capacity?

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    Default Re: I am trying to steal a palace... Physically

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    When I was asking about the mind control, I meant less, "How can you break it?" or "What's causing it?" than "What is its nature?" i.e., is it a dominate effect that makes them walk around like puppets with no will of their own? Is it an irresistable command that makes them obey whether they like it or not, but they can choose how to obey as long as they're not trying to cheat it? Is it a charm effect that makes them love their Glorious Leader and 'willingly' work themselves to death just because they want him to be happy? Is it a suggestion-like effect that makes them think they enjoy the work so much they'd willingly give everything just for one more minute of serving in this capacity?
    It appears to be a dominate person, they work like robots, entirely emotionless and ignoring everything but the task they were given, when I flew in the first time, they didn't even look up when I asked them a question, they were described as if they could not even hear me
    Last edited by jintoya; 2019-05-21 at 04:10 PM.

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    Default Re: I am trying to steal a palace... Physically

    Quote Originally Posted by jintoya View Post
    It appears to be a dominate person, they work like robots, entirely emotionless and ignoring everything but the task they were given, when I flew in the first time, they didn't even look up when I asked them a question, they were described as if they could not even hear me
    Okay, so breaking the domination is probably all you need to do; that makes things easier.

    As to the physical theft, I think you've got a plan here. Good luck!

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    Default Re: I am trying to steal a palace... Physically

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    Okay, so breaking the domination is probably all you need to do; that makes things easier.

    As to the physical theft, I think you've got a plan here. Good luck!
    i think the rok plan will be my primary while i try to accrue the strength enhancing items as, i might also look into a cloud ray as a lifter, if there are problems with that, then i think il be trying to just pick it up with a strength augmented wildshape of some kind, i just got home, so i can look into what form can carry the most.

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    Default Re: I am trying to steal a palace... Physically

    Shining South. The spell is suspension. You may need to jump through a lot of hoops to get it to work but it will levitate 1,000lbs/level. You may have to polymorph the wooden parts into soarwood, or cut the palace up into parts, but that should get the palace up. That leaves lateral movement.
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    Default Re: I am trying to steal a palace... Physically

    I desperately want to know how this goes, since my group are deeply invested in the idea of one day stealing someone's castle in our game, and Plan 'make it light, wrap it in vines, make it strong, get some giant birds to pick it up to the drop point' sounds amazing.
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    Default Re: I am trying to steal a palace... Physically

    Find a (half-)celestial great wyrm gold dragon. Diplomacy it into believing you when you say that these monsters are killing and enslaving magical creatures, with the intent on destroying everything magical that isn't them, and they're growing vastly more powerful with time. The only way to prevent the dragon and everything it cares for from eventual wholesale slaughter is to get in on the ground floor and nip it in the bud. It's likely strong enough to move the castle on its own (especially with a bit of magic), and having an epic-level ally intent on helping you achieve your goals is definitely worth some effort.
    Last edited by MaxiDuRaritry; 2019-05-22 at 08:56 AM.
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    Default Re: I am trying to steal a palace... Physically

    Quote Originally Posted by Malphegor View Post
    I desperately want to know how this goes, since my group are deeply invested in the idea of one day stealing someone's castle in our game, and Plan 'make it light, wrap it in vines, make it strong, get some giant birds to pick it up to the drop point' sounds amazing.
    We do campaign junk on Sundays and Mondays, I can either update the thread with the result or I can pm you the result, if you want me to pm you, just send me one so I have it to remind me, otherwise I may space it, given that it's Wednesday.
    Quote Originally Posted by MaxiDuRaritry View Post
    Find a (half-)celestial great wyrm gold dragon. Diplomacy it into believing you when you say that these monsters are killing and enslaving magical creatures, with the intent on destroying everything magical that isn't them, and they're growing vastly more powerful with time. The only way to prevent the dragon and everything it cares for from eventual wholesale slaughter is to get in on the ground floor and nip it in the bud. It's likely strong enough to move the castle on its own (especially with a bit of magic), and having an epic-level ally intent on helping you achieve your goals is definitely worth some effort.
    This would be an awesome idea.... But it's an Oriental campaign, meaning the dragons are all non-standard... And I've not met any dragons that we'd recognise...I think the Kirin might be the equivalent...I don't know.... Mythical creature help... Wait!
    How do cloud Giants keep those buildings in the air?!
    I don't think it's in any book in familiar with, but it's likely somewhere.

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    Default Re: I am trying to steal a palace... Physically

    Quote Originally Posted by jintoya View Post
    How do cloud Giants keep those buildings in the air?!
    I don't think it's in any book in familiar with, but it's likely somewhere.
    Either 1e or 2e explained it as "special clouds."

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    Default Re: I am trying to steal a palace... Physically

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    Either 1e or 2e explained it as "special clouds."
    Alright, so it's either gathered or crafted by magic or alchemy.
    I'll ask my DM what her ruling is on that, I might just end up taking the whole thing after all... Gotta lift it to put it on the new foundation though... Using the form of a giant centipede/millipede and strength buffing items, I might be capable of doing that.... Then having my own flying Pagoda house!

    (Because more legs means higher lifting capacity in D&D we house-ruled that myriapede all have a x12 multiplier, otherwise it would be even more outlandish without being higher than a standard quadruped... This came from a past game where I built a train-house on one that I tamed and named him Bastion.)

    This option nets me the trophy, a cool house for my bird army and ticks off the local Lord whole saving all the kids in one fell swoop.
    Last edited by jintoya; 2019-05-22 at 11:39 AM.

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    Default Re: I am trying to steal a palace... Physically

    Transmute Stone to Sand plus Awaken Sand would work. Problem is it would take a ton of xp plus a month or more of work under enemy vigilance.

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    Default Re: I am trying to steal a palace... Physically

    Quote Originally Posted by jintoya View Post
    (Because more legs means higher lifting capacity in D&D we house-ruled that myriapede all have a x12 multiplier, otherwise it would be even more outlandish without being higher than a standard quadruped... This came from a past game where I built a train-house on one that I tamed and named him Bastion.)
    I think I just saw your GM mention this in the "things you never want to hear your players say" thread; you have a bunch of other carry-capacity-increasing items, too, huh?

    I don't know that he knows where you're going with this, but he indicated being interested in finding out.

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    Default Re: I am trying to steal a palace... Physically

    Sleight of Hand skill lets you "steal" an entire creature for a DC of 80.

    I think a DC 174 check should do it.

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    Default Re: I am trying to steal a palace... Physically

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    I think I just saw your GM mention this in the "things you never want to hear your players say" thread; you have a bunch of other carry-capacity-increasing items, too, huh?

    I don't know that he knows where you're going with this, but he indicated being interested in finding out.
    To mitigate confusion, I updated that with a (I'm posting on her behalf) thing, but yea, I don't tell the DM the whole plan, just linked the thread to our discord and she said she wanted to pay one but didn't have an account... So I did it for her... Next thing is next, I put my carpentry training to work and figure out the weight of this palace Pagoda... When I'm off work, if I start drawing schematics here... Well, I'm on a boat... So sand is a problem

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    Default Re: I am trying to steal a palace... Physically

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyutaru View Post
    Sleight of Hand skill lets you "steal" an entire creature for a DC of 80.

    I think a DC 174 check should do it.
    As funny as that is, I'm a druid warlock and not trained... Mainly because I can just turn into a polar bear and... What does the polar bear eat for dinner?
    A: anything he wants

    Edit:
    Alright, update on the cloud palace thing, I found the wiki page on it, apparently it takes a year to inscribe the rune properly, so this is going to be costly, on the upside cloud Giants love exotic things and hold flying creatures in high regard, I fly and I could get exotic things from the feywilds (I'm a hedge-runner... But I seldom do it because it's dangerous and there is a "no mortals" policy, meaning I go alone)
    To sell and trade, it sounds like the Giants inscribe them ahead of time, so I should be able to just purchase one...
    Last edited by jintoya; 2019-05-22 at 02:55 PM.

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    Default Re: I am trying to steal a palace... Physically

    alright, so i got all the items during downtime to keep everything simple

    found cloud giants, did trade to get the riches i needed to fund my mad plan

    figured out the rough weight of the pagoda and got above it, had DM check my math and got the thumbs up.
    (its about half a million pounds or so, just under my augmented max load. she knows i'm going to pick it up....not that i'm teleporting it onto a waiting cloud platform.)

    bought the sigil pebble thing, figured costs for items and cloud giant labor to make the platform. (measures rougly 1500'x1500' and acts as solid ground...no weight limit.)

    there is no mule strap in D&D so i asked if i could make one, she said yes, asked if i could make them take up a shoulder and arm slot, so i could wear 2, yes, and she is letting the spell effect stack (she flips a coin to see if it stacks.)

    got them all made compatible with wildshape.

    oh and i'm going to be using my bird flock to drop acorn bombs and bamboo shoots so i can hit them with grow plants to make a huge distraction.

    calculated augmented strength, and with a spell + potion to buff strength...i just barely make it over the carry weight of the palace pagoda...next session il be seeing if it works or fails...keep in mind, if i mess it up, she will let me fail...fingers crossed!
    Last edited by jintoya; 2019-05-23 at 10:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jintoya View Post
    alright, so i got all the items during downtime to keep everything simple

    found cloud giants, did trade to get the riches i needed to fund my mad plan

    figured out the rough weight of the pagoda and got above it, had DM check my math and got the thumbs up.
    (its about half a million pounds or so, just under my augmented max load. she knows i'm going to pick it up....not that i'm teleporting it onto a waiting cloud platform.)

    bought the sigil pebble thing, figured costs for items and cloud giant labor to make the platform. (measures rougly 1500'x1500' and acts as solid ground...no weight limit.)

    there is no mule strap in D&D so i asked if i could make one, she said yes, asked if i could make them take up a shoulder and arm slot, so i could wear 2, yes, and she is letting the spell effect stack (she flips a coin to see if it stacks.)

    got them all made compatible with wildshape.

    oh and i'm going to be using my bird flock to drop acorn bombs and bamboo shoots so i can hit them with grow plants to make a huge distraction.

    calculated augmented strength, and with a spell + potion to buff strength...i just barely make it over the carry weight of the palace pagoda...next session il be seeing if it works or fails...keep in mind, if i mess it up, she will let me fail...fingers crossed!
    Get some more carry booster to be sure and also tell people to not be on the destination platform during the last day(I hope you studied it for some weeks).
    Last edited by noob; 2019-05-24 at 05:35 AM.

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    Default Re: I am trying to steal a palace... Physically

    Quote Originally Posted by noob View Post
    Get some more carry booster to be sure and also tell people to not be on the destination platform during the last day(I hope you studied it for some weeks).
    There's an invocation I can use to drop a waypoint that I can teleport to with current equipment, if the location familiarity thing is going to get in my way, I'll burn a feat and get it
    (I leveled up I think since last session, If not, I think I've got an extra feat to burn from being lazy while leveling up, my character sheet is a bit messy, I'll look when I clean it up this afternoon)

    Nobody will be there, I'll steer it to a location with wind elementals and anchor it using vines, after that it's a no-go zone, thanks for the heads up about the familiarity thing
    I could get away with the "studied carefully" familiarity, it's only a one-in-a-hundred chance of a mishap, and even off-target could be salvageable if I can get on the platform or set the Pagoda down safely for a second shot.
    Last edited by jintoya; 2019-05-24 at 12:23 PM.

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    Default Re: I am trying to steal a palace... Physically

    conclusion to yesterdays sessions:

    had some fey who i outfitted with bags of flint shavings and flash powder to distract everyone....and indeed it was a great success, guards were so turned around trying to locate the source of the sparky flashy explosions that they did not notice me using shatter on the supports to sever the building at the foundation from the ground.

    i then cast grow plants a few times to coat it in tight vines for stability and ironwood on the main supports underneath to give me a lifting spot

    when this was done i set a delayed enlarge person (not sure that it would still be in effect after wildshape, why chanse it?)
    then i set a delayed teleportation that i set the location to the cloud platform and wildshaped with all lifting items equipped and just before this, i chugged a potion that would give me a strength bonus

    after all was said and done, i simply lifted the whole pagoda about an inch off the ground...thats all it took, i teleported successfully to my cloud platform and set it down, then i had to go into the pagoda and handle a few really puzzled guards....but that was about it, i retreated.

    later i found out that he was not a dragon...its far worse than that, he is an avatar of Orochi, the many headed hydra god of evil.....think Okami. (DM loves that game.) so a big ol fight ensued...and the whole capital is gone now, just rubble in the forest (it wasn't a forest previously, i just decided to spend the time and ask some other fey who had grow plants as a spell-like to help me make the whole territory a forest...just because.
    but the lord executed about half of the children after my first visit...so it isn't really a huge victory, its kinda a somber one...this was supposed to be a bit of a goofier campaign, nothing sobers you up like mass child executions huh?)

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