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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Fighter / Sorcerer Help

    I know some people like strength based sorcerers. And I know Sorcadin is really strong. I wanted to look into building a fighter build and focusing on storm sorcerery since many of its abilities relies on being near enemies.

    I hopping into the middle of a LMoP game at level 3. The campaign will continue onto other modules after we finish so no need to cap me at 5.

    Here is what I started with:
    Gold Dragonborn
    16 str / 12 dex / 14 con / 8 int / 8 wis / 16 cha
    Started Fighter 2 then went Sorcerer 1

    Starting with sword and board and I know casting might be a bit of a problem with both my hands tied up.

    Spells so far:
    Cantrips: Firebolt, Lightning Lure, Booming Blade, Message
    1st Level: Absorb Elements, Witch Bolt

    Any suggestions on something I've done already? And I'd really like help how I should build from here.
    Last edited by YoFizz; 2019-05-21 at 06:42 PM.

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Fighter / Sorcerer Help

    Go for Fighter (EK for perferance) 11 and then dive Sorc 9 if you want to just spam the hell out of the storm origin mobility + shadow blade style spells.

    Fi2-3 Sorc 17-18 isn't nearly as strong as Cleric/Sorc or Hex/Sorc but action surge isn't bad.
    Last edited by Nhorianscum; 2019-05-21 at 07:45 PM.

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    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: Fighter / Sorcerer Help

    How much do you want to lean into sorcerer?

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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Fighter / Sorcerer Help

    Quote Originally Posted by TyGuy View Post
    How much do you want to lean into sorcerer?
    Pretty heavily honestly. I want to get 6 sorc to get heart of the storm. I mean the 14th and 18th storm sorc levels are cool too. But probably wonít make it that deep
    Last edited by YoFizz; 2019-05-21 at 09:33 PM.

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    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: Fighter / Sorcerer Help

    I would recommend fighter 1, sorc for the rest. Possibly even skip the fighter dip if you like a race that has weapon and armor proficiencies. You really don't want to delay level 6 sorc since heart of the storm is a main feature. And you don't want to slow down spell slot and spell point progression after either.

    Make sure you take quicken spell. So by level 6/7 when you get heart of the storm you can booming blade and bonus action cast a thunder/lighting spell.

  6. - Top - End - #6
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Fighter / Sorcerer Help

    I'm playing a dragonborn so no special armor/weapon proficiencies. Shouldn't I at least do two for Action Surge? That seems really strong

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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Fighter / Sorcerer Help

    Quote Originally Posted by YoFizz View Post
    I know some people like strength based sorcerers. And I know Sorcadin is really strong. I wanted to look into building a fighter build and focusing on storm sorcerery since many of its abilities relies on being near enemies.

    I hopping into the middle of a LMoP game at level 3. The campaign will continue onto other modules after we finish so no need to cap me at 5.

    Here is what I started with:
    Gold Dragonborn
    16 str / 12 dex / 14 con / 8 int / 8 wis / 16 cha
    Started Fighter 2 then went Sorcerer 1

    Starting with sword and board and I know casting might be a bit of a problem with both my hands tied up.

    Spells so far:
    Cantrips: Firebolt, Lightning Lure, Booming Blade, Message
    1st Level: Absorb Elements, Witch Bolt

    Any suggestions on something I've done already? And I'd really like help how I should build from here.
    Quote Originally Posted by YoFizz View Post
    I'm playing a dragonborn so no special armor/weapon proficiencies. Shouldn't I at least do two for Action Surge? That seems really strong
    This may not tie up as neatly as you think, as you'll never be as effective fighting with weapons in comparsion to your casting.

    The fighter's way of fighting relies heavily on the Extra Attack feature and whatever their subclasses bestow upon them (usually not much in terms of damage output). And to be able to rely so heavily on Extra Attack they need more of them, thus taking more levels in Fighter.

    The paladin's way of fighting is supplementing their single Extra Attack with Smite, wich uses Spell Slots as fuel. Since Sorcadins can get buckets of spell slots with Sorcerer levels, they don't necessarily need to take more than a few levels in Paladin and can advance their spell progression (or stick to Paladin until 6-7 for the neat abilities).

    Either way, what we are looking at here is this: you will never have as good a well-rounded approach to this as a Sorcadin. You will either do something like Fighter 11/Sorc 9 (for second Extra Attack and 5th level spells), Fighter 14/Sorcerer 6 (for some ASI efficiency) and be a decent fighter with some tricks (still worse than straight EK). Or do the ol' Fighter 2-3 dip/Sorcerer X and be just a Sorcerer who wears armor and maybe swings a sword every once in a while (for not much damage). If the later satisfies you, it can be very good.

  8. - Top - End - #8
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Fighter / Sorcerer Help

    Quote Originally Posted by TalksAlone View Post
    This may not tie up as neatly as you think, as you'll never be as effective fighting with weapons in comparsion to your casting.

    The fighter's way of fighting relies heavily on the Extra Attack feature and whatever their subclasses bestow upon them (usually not much in terms of damage output). And to be able to rely so heavily on Extra Attack they need more of them, thus taking more levels in Fighter.

    The paladin's way of fighting is supplementing their single Extra Attack with Smite, wich uses Spell Slots as fuel. Since Sorcadins can get buckets of spell slots with Sorcerer levels, they don't necessarily need to take more than a few levels in Paladin and can advance their spell progression (or stick to Paladin until 6-7 for the neat abilities).

    Either way, what we are looking at here is this: you will never have as good a well-rounded approach to this as a Sorcadin. You will either do something like Fighter 11/Sorc 9 (for second Extra Attack and 5th level spells), Fighter 14/Sorcerer 6 (for some ASI efficiency) and be a decent fighter with some tricks (still worse than straight EK). Or do the ol' Fighter 2-3 dip/Sorcerer X and be just a Sorcerer who wears armor and maybe swings a sword every once in a while (for not much damage). If the later satisfies you, it can be very good.
    Thank you so much for your very detailed answer. I guess the answer just might be the last thing you suggested, a sorcerer who has heavy armor which will allow me to more safely abuse the lightning damage effects.

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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Fighter / Sorcerer Help

    Quote Originally Posted by YoFizz View Post
    Thank you so much for your very detailed answer. I guess the answer just might be the last thing you suggested, a sorcerer who has heavy armor which will allow me to more safely abuse the lightning damage effects.
    The furthest I'd recommend into Fighter, for being primarily a spell caster, would be Fighter 4/Sorcerer 16. This gets you the maximum number of ASIs without taking unnecessary levels. What this does over other Fighter/Sorcerer hybrid levels is grant you additional HP, which is very important for a melee combatant. The difference between a Sorcerer and a Fighter, in terms of HP from your class, is a 57% gain.

    • 1 Fighter: You want good armor.
    • 2 Fighter: You want Action Surge.
    • 3 Fighter: There's a Fighter Subclass you really want.
    • 4 Fighter: You want ASIs and the most amount of Fighter HP.
    • 5+ Fighter: You plan on playing more like a Fighter than a Sorcerer.
    Last edited by Man_Over_Game; 2019-05-22 at 05:24 PM.
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    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Default Re: Fighter / Sorcerer Help

    The most important thing for you to decide is, do you wanna spend most of your rounds casting spells or swinging your sword?

    For the former, as MoG said, pretty much every lvl before 5 is a good stoop, I'd only take lvl 4 if I'm hurting for an ASI right now, otherwise stay at 2 or 3.

    For the latter, Ftr 11/Sorc9 or Ftr 12/Sorc8 are solid.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Fighter / Sorcerer Help

    Tempest cleric/ storm sorcerer.... it is a bit on the cheesy side. But 6 levels of tempest cleric should do it.

    But since you took fighter 2, I would grab EK, so when needed you can simply drop your weapon if cannot re-sheathe it.

    Then move on, war caster is far off, you have a 16 charisma which is fine for now. At sorcerer 4/Ek3, you make that charisma an 18. And at any time you can always pick up fighter 4 for a feat/ASI

    Otherwise see if you can redraw up your PC.
    Last edited by djreynolds; 2019-05-23 at 02:53 AM.

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    ElfRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Fighter / Sorcerer Help

    Go Warcaster before you go CHA. The AoO, keeping weapon in hand and keeping your concentration spells ought to outdo your DPR increase from CHA easily. Consider a 1-3 level hexblade dip as well for SAD and EB
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Fighter / Sorcerer Help

    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post
    The furthest I'd recommend into Fighter, for being primarily a spell caster, would be Fighter 4/Sorcerer 16. This gets you the maximum number of ASIs without taking unnecessary levels. What this does over other Fighter/Sorcerer hybrid levels is grant you additional HP, which is very important for a melee combatant. The difference between a Sorcerer and a Fighter, in terms of HP from your class, is a 57% gain.

    • 1 Fighter: You want good armor.
    • 2 Fighter: You want Action Surge.
    • 3 Fighter: There's a Fighter Subclass you really want.
    • 4 Fighter: You want ASIs and the most amount of Fighter HP.
    • 5+ Fighter: You plan on playing more like a Fighter than a Sorcerer.
    Well put. I definitely want the Action Surge, I don't know if there is any subclass I'm dying to have -- Maybe EK for the spare slots and cantrips.
    Quote Originally Posted by djreynolds View Post
    Tempest cleric/ storm sorcerer.... it is a bit on the cheesy side. But 6 levels of tempest cleric should do it.

    But since you took fighter 2, I would grab EK, so when needed you can simply drop your weapon if cannot re-sheathe it.

    Then move on, war caster is far off, you have a 16 charisma which is fine for now. At sorcerer 4/Ek3, you make that charisma an 18. And at any time you can always pick up fighter 4 for a feat/ASI

    Otherwise see if you can redraw up your PC.
    Yeah, I've seen Tempest and Storm and it looks neat, just wanted to try something a bit weird and see if I can take something nonmeta and do something with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Skylivedk View Post
    Go Warcaster before you go CHA. The AoO, keeping weapon in hand and keeping your concentration spells ought to outdo your DPR increase from CHA easily. Consider a 1-3 level hexblade dip as well for SAD and EB
    Now this sounds like a good plan. War Caster asap might be the best play. I could re-work my character and go FIghter 1 / Sorc 4 > then whatever.

    Hexblade is an interesting thought that for some reason I haven't considered. I could go 1-1-1 but that might be insane? maybe take it at 6

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Fighter / Sorcerer Help

    A couple of thoughts

    Chainmail is AC 16, with the shield spell you have an AC of 21

    So while war caster is an awesome feat, I feel you can live without a real shield

    It really depends on IMO how many reaction attacks with a spell you foresee in your future and how much are you mixing it up in melee. You have constitution save proficiency already.

    War caster is always a solid choice though.

    I'd like to see how this character progresses

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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Fighter / Sorcerer Help

    Quote Originally Posted by djreynolds View Post
    A couple of thoughts

    Chainmail is AC 16, with the shield spell you have an AC of 21

    So while war caster is an awesome feat, I feel you can live without a real shield

    It really depends on IMO how many reaction attacks with a spell you foresee in your future and how much are you mixing it up in melee. You have constitution save proficiency already.

    War caster is always a solid choice though.

    I'd like to see how this character progresses
    Reacting with booming blade would be really choice

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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Fighter / Sorcerer Help

    In regards to spell selection:

    Witch Bolt seems really suboptimal even for a Storm Sorcerer. It literally disables your action.

    Thunderwave is a far better 1st level spell that does thunder damage (better than lightning) and affects a good chunk of targets in melee. You can manage to be in melee, so it synergizes quite well with your character.

    At higher levels you can switch it, as it becomes more dangerous to close in. Generaly the most optimized thing to do is pick Sleep at level 1 if you start as Sorcerer and switch it at level 3 for a second level spell. If you start as fighter no need to bother with it, you are safe picking Thunderwave at level 2 or 3.

    Lightning Lure is questionable, TBH. If your DM allows for players to choose to fail saving throws, you can provide a disengage-like benefit to your party mates at the cost of some mild damage. Since it's forced movement it doesn't provoke AoO. Better, if the DM let's you declare mimimum damage.

    If anything, drop it and pick up Minor Illusion. It's too good to pass. Or Message.

    Either way you should think what your Metamagics are going to be. It's really hard to guess the spells right without knowing that.

  17. - Top - End - #17
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Fighter / Sorcerer Help

    Quote Originally Posted by TalksAlone View Post
    In regards to spell selection:

    Witch Bolt seems really suboptimal even for a Storm Sorcerer. It literally disables your action.

    Thunderwave is a far better 1st level spell that does thunder damage (better than lightning) and affects a good chunk of targets in melee. You can manage to be in melee, so it synergizes quite well with your character.

    At higher levels you can switch it, as it becomes more dangerous to close in. Generaly the most optimized thing to do is pick Sleep at level 1 if you start as Sorcerer and switch it at level 3 for a second level spell. If you start as fighter no need to bother with it, you are safe picking Thunderwave at level 2 or 3.

    Lightning Lure is questionable, TBH. If your DM allows for players to choose to fail saving throws, you can provide a disengage-like benefit to your party mates at the cost of some mild damage. Since it's forced movement it doesn't provoke AoO. Better, if the DM let's you declare mimimum damage.

    If anything, drop it and pick up Minor Illusion. It's too good to pass. Or Message.

    Either way you should think what your Metamagics are going to be. It's really hard to guess the spells right without knowing that.
    I'm coming in at level 3 so I think I"m going to start Fighter 1 / Sorcerer 2 after some of the discussion in this thread.

    Lightning lure seemed to be worth while since in my head I was going to be doing melee a lot. As for witch bolt, that was an oversight, but I know Witch Bolt doesn't scale all that well, so its one of those spells that is going to get switch out fast. Right now the plan for metamagics is Quicken and Twin.

    And thanks for the thunderwave suggestion I'll definitely be looking into that.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Fighter / Sorcerer Help

    So its settled, grab war caster so you can effectively fight in melee.

    I like chromatic orb, an easy go spell, very versatile and you can always up cast it.

    Yeah sleep is awesome, I might consider waiting on absorb elements only because you shouldn't be facing too much stuff early that requires it, maybe take the shield spell

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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Fighter / Sorcerer Help

    Quote Originally Posted by djreynolds View Post
    So its settled, grab war caster so you can effectively fight in melee.

    I like chromatic orb, an easy go spell, very versatile and you can always up cast it.

    Yeah sleep is awesome, I might consider waiting on absorb elements only because you shouldn't be facing too much stuff early that requires it, maybe take the shield spell
    Thanks for the tip on absorb elements. Right now I'll have Thunderwave, Shield, and Chromatic Orb will be good. I'll grab that. I'll grab war caster at 5 so I can booming blade for AoO and be able to cast in melee effectively. I just joined the party so I'll update this thread periodically to let anyone who is interested know how the build is turning out.

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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Fighter / Sorcerer Help

    Quote Originally Posted by YoFizz View Post
    I know some people like strength based sorcerers. And I know Sorcadin is really strong. I wanted to look into building a fighter build and focusing on storm sorcerery since many of its abilities relies on being near enemies.
    This is the thing I don't get... The Storm Sorcerer gets great abilities to run away from things. The Storm Sorcerer's MO is Run into range, blast all the someones with lightning/thunder damage with added splash damage, then use a bonus action Tempestuous Magic to Flit away. It's like a Monk with a mobile feat (or just a drunken master monk)... all hit and run. With the added ability to make sure all the wind is against someone shooting at you.

    If you wanted to get 5+ levels of fighter, then 3 levels of Shadow Sorcerer so you can use the Darkness / Eyes of the Dark combo to have a combination of Blur and Perma-advantage with all attacks, I could see that. It'd be like a more extreme version of the Samuari's Fighting Spirit, as you'd get it up to 5x/LR (if you dump all of your spells into sorc points for Darkness) instead of the measly 3x/LR that the fighter gets.
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  21. - Top - End - #21
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Fighter / Sorcerer Help

    I play a Fighter/Sorcerer and I applaud your decision to go for this build! It's quite fun. I think the Fighter/Sorcerer build has a few upsides that get ignored when compared against Sorcadin:
    First, you don't have to pick between Con save proficiency or Heavy armor, you get both.
    Two, action surge is simply fantastic.

    Are you set on the choices you outlined in your original post? If not I can suggest several changes.

    Moving forwards, my personal preference would be three levels in Fighter for Battle Master, then going the rest Sorcerer. I'd go Fighter 2 / Sorcerer 3 and then take it whichever direction you'd like afterwards.

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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Fighter / Sorcerer Help

    Quote Originally Posted by YoFizz View Post
    Thanks for the tip on absorb elements. Right now I'll have Thunderwave, Shield, and Chromatic Orb will be good. I'll grab that. I'll grab war caster at 5 so I can booming blade for AoO and be able to cast in melee effectively. I just joined the party so I'll update this thread periodically to let anyone who is interested know how the build is turning out.
    You'll only reaonably be able to have 1-3 first level spells. The damage spells will quickly become obsolete, so I wouldn't worry much about them. You'll be replacing them with their superior versions like thunderstep. You only get one spell per level, so you'll want to be replacing low level spells with higher ones.

    I'd recommend you actually go through your sorcerer levels and see what you have room for at each level. The limited slots is very constricting.

    For metamagic empowered spell is a no-brainer. Huge value on your AOE spells. Quickened competes with your storm sorcerer bonus action. Subtle allows you to have that "naturally magical" vibe. It's a very powerful out of combat ability, and it also allows you to beat counterspell.

    I recommend empowered and subtle because they are cheap. Cheap is good, because you have less metamagic then a full sorcerer.

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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Fighter / Sorcerer Help

    Quote Originally Posted by Asmerv View Post
    I play a Fighter/Sorcerer and I applaud your decision to go for this build! It's quite fun. I think the Fighter/Sorcerer build has a few upsides that get ignored when compared against Sorcadin:
    First, you don't have to pick between Con save proficiency or Heavy armor, you get both.
    Two, action surge is simply fantastic.

    Are you set on the choices you outlined in your original post? If not I can suggest several changes.

    Moving forwards, my personal preference would be three levels in Fighter for Battle Master, then going the rest Sorcerer. I'd go Fighter 2 / Sorcerer 3 and then take it whichever direction you'd like afterwards.
    Nothing is set fully in stone. I was introduced in game already. But he has been pretty open with me tinkering with the build until it matters since itís a weird one. Iíd love to pick your brain on suggestions and ideas.

  24. - Top - End - #24
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Fighter / Sorcerer Help

    In that case, I think you could stand to go with a different Sorcerer subclass if you're not thematically set on Storm.

    Divine gets access to Spiritual Guardians (among other goodies), which is a fantastic spell to have as a frontliner. It's level 1 feature is also action economy-free boost and recharges on a short rest, giving you some oomph for days that go very long (More on this later). Quickened heals can help you survive on the front for a few extra turns when needed etc.

    Draconic picking Gold will get to add your Cha mod to Greenflame Blade, and gets an extra 1HP per level. Resistance to Fire on demand is not shabby either.

    I'd say the above two options add more to both your survivability, and your damage output more than Storm would.

    My personal favorite is Wild Magic, which really shines when you're also close to a bunch of enemies. As you can see in this great guide surging becomes really good when you're around enemies. You'd have to have a talk with your DM for this one, but surging, when managed, is very powerful and gives access to advantage on tap. A simple Shield spell can become Shield + a 5th level magic missile for no cost.

    For metamagics, I think Quicken is indispensable for most of these as it grants you a flexible and powerful bonus action. The other is really up to you, I'd recommend Twin or Subtle. Twin is expensive but powerful, subtle is cheap and fun but not as potent in combat.

    ---------------------------

    Regarding the Fighter side of the equation, most early levels are good breakpoints. You're already Fighter 2, and my personal recommendation would be to break at 3 with Battle Master, or stay at 2. Battle Master gives you good short rest resources to complement your long rest ones, a powerful reaction attack in Riposte (which will happen often when you use spells like Blur or Haste), the and ability to turn a miss into a hit with Precision Attack, and many other good options.

    The reason I would recommend against going to 5+ for Extra Attack is that I just don't think it's worth it unless you go Great Weapon Master. Precision Attack synergizes better with a single large hit, and so do Draconic and Wild Mage abilities and cantrips naturally scale with your total level.

    ----------------------------

    For progression I'd try to get to Sorcerer 5 as quickly as possible for 3rd level spells. You can start doing silly things like casting Haste, running into a group and using Dodge as your action while using Quickened cantrips and your hasted action to deliver two attacks or lock down people while rocking a +2 AC and disadvantage to incoming strikes, and get a third boosted attack with Riposte when someone inevitably misses you.

    Hope this helps!
    Last edited by Asmerv; 2019-05-30 at 03:19 PM.

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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Fighter / Sorcerer Help

    thank you! it does and I will definitely take as much of that I can to heart and to practice!

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