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Thread: Player Trouble

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Dec 2018

    Default Player Trouble

    After about 10 sessions of a campaign I joined I have been having some trouble with role-playing and enjoying myself.

    For Some Background Information:
    -We started with 7 people, 1 left before the campaign started, and 3 left later.
    -We now have 8 people (keep in mind this is all on discord, making it hard to communicate).
    -I played a Goliath Barbarian for the first 5 sessions but switched to a Paladin Human because I wasn't enjoying myself.
    -Paladin is a Redemption Oath (In a grim-dark style campaign by the way).

    So for the meat of this post I want to start off by saying that Redemption Paladin is damn hard to play. You have to always use violence as a last resort which is a very hard transition from a Barbarian. It also feels ike everbody can do something better than me which makes me fell kind of useless. We have 2 support-type classes, 2 damage/tank-types, and 2 spellcaster-type classes. I just kind of feel like everything I do that is special, someone can do better. Another thing that adds to this feeling is that when I first used my Smite (which is the coolest part of the Paladin class), my DM took it away. This is probably because I did 28 damage with one attack, with a dagger (the guys I hit had his kneecaps fly into the stratosphere). Making this even more difficult is one of the newest 5 players is a Bloodhunter Human. Now, no shade towards this person but it seems she is always doing something special with the DM, and the problem I have is it feels like every two sessions the DM has to take away a ton of time to do a small adventure with the Bloodhunter. I have recently been trying to fix the way I play the game of D&D. My first campaign I played very selfishly, I was the guy who asked for every item and complained every time I lost. So I'm trying to fix my way of playing the game with other people. But I just don't get to do anything in my group. Everything I can do, someone can do it better. Charisma rolls needed, BOOM WARLOCK, intelligence BOOM WIZARD, wisdom BOOM DRUID, and if we get into a fight it is basically BOOM I CAN'T DO ANY DAMAGE BECAUSE I HAVE NO SMITE. It just gets on my nerves so much, and it doesn't help that everyone is like 3 years older than me so I am just looked at as that one kid who plays in the group. I know that the obvious answer is that I should just leave the group, but the truth is that I like the people that I play with in that group and honestly finding online groups to play with is so hard. I would just like some tips on what I should do to make the campaign more enjoyable so I am not pulling my hair out every session.

    EDIT: Forgot to add this in but I wanted to mention that our Bloodhunter is a super edge lord who has recently made a deal with a lich-ish kind of guy. And as I paladin you know I got to smite the bad and crusade and crap so it hurts my brain and AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO I AM SO CONFLICTED.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Greywander's Avatar

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    Nov 2017

    Default Re: Player Trouble

    Why did your DM take away one of the signature features of your class? This is like taking away a cleric's healing, or the rogue's Sneak Attack.

    Have you tried talking to the DM and explaining that you're not having fun?

    Another issue might be that there are too many players at this table. It's no wonder there's always someone who can outdo you any time you try to do something, especially when playing as a hybrid type character (without one of their signature class features).

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Sep 2018

    Default Re: Player Trouble

    Yeah, the one thing a Paladin is supposed to be one of the best at is single target damage. Without Smite you've basically been stripped of your most potent combat tool.

    I wouldn't be playing in that game. The DM appears to be playing favorites and then took away the one thing that let's Paladin's be good in combat. Pile on the size is the table and even if he wasn't/isn't playing favorites there's not much table time for each player (I hate big groups for this reason. It's much harder to develop characters when they have to wait 20 minutes for their turn to talk everytime...)

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    May 2018

    Default Re: Player Trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by Weeb View Post
    I have been having some trouble with role-playing and enjoying myself.

    -We now have 8 people (keep in mind this is all on discord, making it hard to communicate).
    Never played trough discord, but from my real life experience, high number of players is difficult to handle. Specifically for role-play.

    RPG sessions I've done with 6 or more peoples only worked when either:
    1) There is ways to go into a private room to RP a dialogue with one or 2 other players while the other characters are doing something else in the main room. And doing so is central to the campaign (secret traitors and alliances)
    2) Or the DM handle the game such that everybody has a moment to shine, so you alternate between scenes where your character is passive in spectators, and scene when you are part of the few character actives while the others shut up.
    3) Or the game is a pure "boardgame-like" RPG, with almost no role-play and only technical challenge. Which have to be designed for a huge team to work (so multiple front battles, for example).

    D&D doesn't work pretty well for 1 (fully cooperative RPG) and 2 (the combat rules are too strict for making some characters "passive" in a fight, and the combat are too longs for putting some characters outside of fights).
    The remaining option is 3, which entirely rely on the DM's capacity to make well-designed encounters for high number of players. (And might be difficult if you don't have a board with figurines to play on)

    With 8 players, the optimal solution is to find a second DM and make a split 4-4.
    Possibly keeping the two groups in the same universe, with some rare sessions in common.

    If nothing is done, my prediction is that the campaign will continue until some peoples are bored enough to live the campaign, and when the number of player will be down to 4-5-6 (plus the DM), things will be better.
    But then, I might be wrong and underestimate your DM skills to handle huge groups of players.

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Dec 2018

    Default Re: Player Trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by Greywander View Post
    Why did your DM take away one of the signature features of your class? This is like taking away a cleric's healing, or the rogue's Sneak Attack.
    He said that I did attack a man for no reason but I did try to say something to him before trying to fight him. But as said earlier it is hard to here a 14 year-old when you got people almost out of high-school and adults talking. I did try to reason that it was self defense use but my DM said that I attacked him without warrant (even though he was going to put a crown on my head that would instantly kill me, but I also kind of volunteered to have the honor of putting the crown on so it is mostly my fault, but hey, I didn't know what it would do).

    I do want to say though, I feel that from an unbiased opinion most people wouldn't say he is playing favorites or any of that. Bur from my perspective it seems very much so.

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    Titan in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

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    Aug 2014

    Default Re: Player Trouble

    DM removed smite? Quit the game. Hes rubbish and shouldn't be DMing.

    Unless you're enjoying it, which you aren't.

    Why do something in your free time you dont enjoy?

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Nov 2016

    Default Re: Player Trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by Weeb View Post
    He said that I did attack a man for no reason but I did try to say something to him before trying to fight him. But as said earlier it is hard to here a 14 year-old when you got people almost out of high-school and adults talking. I did try to reason that it was self defense use but my DM said that I attacked him without warrant (even though he was going to put a crown on my head that would instantly kill me, but I also kind of volunteered to have the honor of putting the crown on so it is mostly my fault, but hey, I didn't know what it would do).

    I do want to say though, I feel that from an unbiased opinion most people wouldn't say he is playing favorites or any of that. Bur from my perspective it seems very much so.
    Sometimes DM's inflict morals and alignments on Paladins especially. IF he said you attacked the man for no reason and couldn't use a Smite because it didn't go along with your Paladin oath I GUESS there is some logic to that. Personally if I were the DM I might give you a little bit of a hard time if I thought your player took an oath and was crossing it and find something in game to challenge you differently.

    Is this right or wrong for him to do? I dunno. In my opinion he went too far but I'm not going to take away his Dungeon Master's Guide or execute him.

    If you want to keep playing in the group try to PM him out of game time and see if he won't bend his ways or there is always finding another group. I like DMing AND playing in smaller groups anyways.

    Sucks but don't give up!

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    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grod_The_Giant's Avatar

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    Default Re: Player Trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by Weeb View Post
    I do want to say though, I feel that from an unbiased opinion most people wouldn't say he is playing favorites or any of that. Bur from my perspective it seems very much so.
    He's allowing one player to run a third-party class and rewarding them with lots of screentime; meanwhile, he disagrees with one decision you made, doesn't listen to your explanation, and nerfs your character into the ground. That sounds like favoritism to me. You're not doing anything wrong. You just have the misfortune of running into a couple of persistent D&D problems at the same time: a big group, a DM who plays favorites, and a DM who's looking for an excuse to make Paladins fall.

    I suggest finding another group. "This one is too big" is a good reason to give if you want to avoid possible hurt feelings.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    JakOfAllTirades's Avatar

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    Default Re: Player Trouble

    All things considered, I'm confident you can find a better group. I'd start looking yesterday.
    I CAN EXPLAIN IT FOR YOU, BUT I CAN'T UNDERSTAND IT FOR YOU.


  10. - Top - End - #10
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Apr 2018

    Default Re: Player Trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    He's allowing one player to run a third-party class and rewarding them with lots of screentime; meanwhile, he disagrees with one decision you made, doesn't listen to your explanation, and nerfs your character into the ground. That sounds like favoritism to me. You're not doing anything wrong. You just have the misfortune of running into a couple of persistent D&D problems at the same time: a big group, a DM who plays favorites, and a DM who's looking for an excuse to make Paladins fall.

    I suggest finding another group. "This one is too big" is a good reason to give if you want to avoid possible hurt feelings.
    Basically this. No D&D is better than bad D&D.

    Also, DMs that nerf core class features are a red flag of either an inexperienced DM, or one who doesn't understand the balance of 5e. It's not like this is 3.5e, where there's so many moving parts that things get janky thanks to interactions.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    CoreBrute23's Avatar

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    Default Re: Player Trouble

    If you're worried about where to find more games online or on discord, this reddit page has a lot of good examples: https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/com...ne_dnd_groups/

    There's also https://www.reddit.com/r/lfg which is always posting for players.

    Finally, you can always ask for a game on the Giant in the Playground forums. Just post here that you are looking for a DM for a 5e game, maybe mention Discord if that's your prefered method of play.

    Finally, you are on discord. See about speaking to your DM privately, outside game time, let him know your concerns. Alternatively, if you like some of the other players specifically, speak to them privately, see if they would be interested in a seperate Discord game. Maybe they share the same concerns as you, and maybe one of them has always wanted a chance to DM. Take your Paladin to that game and smite to your heart's content.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Orc in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    May 2018

    Default Re: Player Trouble

    Taking away Smite is like taking away Sneak Attack for a Rogue or Rage for a Barbarian; it's basically gutting a core feature of the class. If the DM had said they were taking Smite away because it did, you know, exactly what it was designed to do, I'd have walked away from the table at that exact moment.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

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    Oct 2018

    Default Re: Player Trouble

    No D&D is better than bad D&D.

    To echo others, without Smite, you are either a D-rank Cleric or a C-rank Eldritch Knight. Paladins are the best at burst, one-hit-wonder damage. They stack smites, they absorb hits.

    As for missing your niche, Paladin (while good at a number of things) being somewhat MAD does have that issue in a large group. In a smaller group, you'd probably be the Face (charisma guy).

    If you go back to Barbarian, you might be the max-damage guy or the master tank, but RP-wise/Attribute wise, Barbarian is worse than/equal to the Paladin.

    If there isn't a 2nd DM so you can split the group/you don't want to DM/the other 7 want to stay one group, you need to drop paladin ASAP. It won't get better, sorry. Obviously, don't pick Cleric either as he might nerf that too. You can try another gish (EK, Revised Ranger, perhaps Artificer), or if feeling needed is most important to you, go Rouge/Bard.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Apr 2019

    Default Re: Player Trouble

    You could lean into his punishment and see if he'd let your character break their Oath and become an Oathbreaker paladin.

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