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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ElfWarriorGuy

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    May 2015

    Default Dueling wielding shenanigan

    So I've been thinking, lets say I'm a Vhuman Ftr1 16 Dex with dueling style and TWF feat.

    I start combat with a dagger in my hand. Then can I?

    Action: Attack with +2 from Dueling
    Use an Object: Draw 2 daggers
    BA: Attack

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Dueling wielding shenanigan

    I donít believe so. The twf rules are specifically worded in a way that disallows it:
    Quote Originally Posted by Roll20
    When you take the Attack action and Attack with a light melee weapon that youíre holding in one hand, you can use a Bonus Action to Attack with a different light melee weapon that youíre holding in the other hand.
    So to get the Dueling bonus you canít have a weapon in your other hand when you attack, but to get the bonus action attack you have to be holding a weapon in your other hand when you attack.

    Edit: you could get dueling to one attack and still get the bonus attack after level 5 if you draw between the attacks of your action though. Without the twf style though, youíre basically trading one instance of mod to damage for +2 to damage anyway.
    Last edited by Darc_Vader; 2019-05-21 at 11:31 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Dueling wielding shenanigan

    Quote Originally Posted by Darc_Vader View Post
    So to get the Dueling bonus you canít have a weapon in your other hand when you attack, but to get the bonus action attack you have to be holding a weapon in your other hand when you attack.
    When is when?

    You need another light weapon in your other hand to use the BA attack. While you can interpret that this requirement must be met while doing your main attack roll, there's no explicit link.
    Trust but verify. There's usually a reason why I believe you can't do something.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Troll in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Dueling wielding shenanigan

    Quote Originally Posted by bid View Post
    When is when?

    You need another light weapon in your other hand to use the BA attack. While you can interpret that this requirement must be met while doing your main attack roll, there's no explicit link.
    I did some research on this. It seems that the overall consensus is that you must have both weapons in hand when making your attacks to TWF with them:

    Combining Dueling and Two Weapon Fighting styles

    Does Two-Weapon fighting work if you aren't holding both weapons when you take the Attack action?

    Can I draw a weapon before making a bonus action attack and get my Duelist bonus?
    Last edited by Man_Over_Game; 2019-05-22 at 12:04 PM.
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  5. - Top - End - #5
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Default Re: Dueling wielding shenanigan

    So, couldnít you take the Attack action with a weapon in your main hand, then use a free object interaction to draw a weapon to your offhand and strike as a Bonus Action?

    Maybe RAI you canít, but RAW thereís nothing in the text suggesting you canít.
    Last edited by Trustypeaches; 2019-05-22 at 12:12 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Dueling wielding shenanigan

    If you have the Dual Wielder feat and Extra Attack, you could throw a dagger or hand axe as your first attack and add your Dueling bonus, then draw 2 weapons. Your 2nd attack would then allow you to proc your bonus action TWF attack.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Brookshw's Avatar

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    Default Re: Dueling wielding shenanigan

    Quote Originally Posted by Trustypeaches View Post
    So, couldnít you take the Attack action with a weapon in your main hand, then use a free object interaction to draw a weapon to your offhand and strike as a Bonus Action?

    Maybe RAI you canít, but RAW thereís nothing in the text suggesting you canít.
    RAW is clear that you can't. As observed above in the discussion, when is the applicable issue. By the RAW, at such a time as you make an attack action we check to determine if you're satisfying the conditions required for the bonus attack. If you're not, then no bonus attack. The attack action is complete by the time you would be able to use an object to have a weapon in your offhand so you cannot satisfy required conditions during your attack action, and later satisfaction of the requisite conditions is not permitted by the RAW.

    RAW aside, RAI's kind of fun on this one, under your proposed interpretation I could attack, use an object to switch the weapon to my other hand, and then attack again with that same weapon, allowing me to TWF with the same one hand weapon.
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  8. - Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Default Re: Dueling wielding shenanigan

    Quote Originally Posted by Brookshw View Post
    RAW is clear that you can't. As observed above in the discussion, when is the applicable issue. By the RAW, at such a time as you make an attack action we check to determine if you're satisfying the conditions required for the bonus attack. If you're not, then no bonus attack. The attack action is complete by the time you would be able to use an object to have a weapon in your offhand so you cannot satisfy required conditions during your attack action, and later satisfaction of the requisite conditions is not permitted by the RAW.
    That's not the case if you have Extra Attack, you could throw a dagger, draw another and make a second thrown attack, you are limited to one "free" object interaction per turn though.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Brookshw's Avatar

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    Default Re: Dueling wielding shenanigan

    Quote Originally Posted by Rukelnikov View Post
    That's not the case if you have Extra Attack, you could throw a dagger, draw another and make a second thrown attack, you are limited to one "free" object interaction per turn though.
    Fair point. I should have specified "attack" and not "attack action" in both the part you bolded, and above it. Mea culpa.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vedhin View Post
    As always, the planes prove to be awesomer than I expected.
    Quote Originally Posted by jedipotter View Post
    Logic just does not fit in with the real world. And only the guilty throw fallacy's around.
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  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Dueling wielding shenanigan

    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post
    I did some research on this. It seems that the overall consensus is that you must have both weapons in hand when making your attacks to TWF with them:
    I agree with that consensus but feels the weak link is why both "a light melee weapon that youíre holding in one hand" and "a different light melee weapon that youíre holding in the other hand" are simultaneously fulfilled.

    So I would not dismiss the opposite viewpoint (for RAW only, I would reject any attempt at RAI).
    Last edited by bid; 2019-05-22 at 05:39 PM.
    Trust but verify. There's usually a reason why I believe you can't do something.

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