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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Orc in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Counter spell situation

    Two wizards, thats my friend and I are in a battle with two drow casters. I cast a fireball on the drow, drow 1 tries to counter my fireball, I counter drow 1s counter, drow 2 counters my counter, my wizard friend counters drow 2s counter, and the fireball goes off. That's how we're running it in my game, and it's pertinent, because we're in the underdark battling drow forces. Is this right?
    Last edited by Dmdork; 2019-05-22 at 04:54 AM.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Counter spell situation

    Seems right to me!

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    Randuir's Avatar

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    Default Re: Counter spell situation

    Yeah, that's right by RAW.
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    Orc in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Counter spell situation

    Looks right to me. Just make sure everyone satisfies the needs for Counterspell - range (60'), being able to detect the spell being cast and being able to use a Somatic gesture.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Counter spell situation

    What do you mean being able to detect the spell being cast? Do you mean being able to detect 'A' spell being cast?
    Last edited by Dmdork; 2019-05-23 at 03:22 AM.

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    BloodSnake'sCha's Avatar

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    Default Re: Counter spell situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Dmdork View Post
    What do you mean being able to detect the spell being cast?
    Can you see that the enemy cast a spell?

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    DwarfFighterGuy

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    Default Re: Counter spell situation

    Yep, so long as all players have 2 blue mana open..I digress. It's right. You can use a reaction on your own turn.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dmdork View Post
    What do you mean being able to detect the spell being cast? Do you mean being able to detect 'A' spell being cast?
    On a different but maybe related note, a Wizard that readies an action to cast a spell can do so behind cover, then pop out when the trigger is met and cast the spell without fear of being counterspelled. Likewise for subtle spell stuff where you hide the VSM sort of stuff on a spell cast (not counterable).
    Last edited by allthingslich; 2019-05-23 at 08:27 AM.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Counter spell situation

    Quote Originally Posted by allthingslich View Post
    Yep, so long as all players have 2 blue mana open..I digress. It's right. You can use a reaction on your own turn.


    On a different but maybe related note, a Wizard that readies an action to cast a spell can do so behind cover, then pop out when the trigger is met and cast the spell without fear of counterspelled
    Where does it say you can ready and pop out w/o being countered?

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Counter spell situation

    Readying a spell means casting it and holding it using your concentration. So you can do that part while ducking behind a wall, etc. The release via trigger is post casting and so the opportunity to counterspell has past.

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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Counter spell situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Dmdork View Post
    Where does it say you can ready and pop out w/o being countered?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkun View Post
    Readying a spell means casting it and holding it using your concentration. So you can do that part while ducking behind a wall, etc. The release via trigger is post casting and so the opportunity to counterspell has past.
    There's a bunch of evidence for this ruling here: https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questi...ind-full-cover
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  11. - Top - End - #11
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NinjaGirl

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    Default Re: Counter spell situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkun View Post
    Readying a spell means casting it and holding it using your concentration. So you can do that part while ducking behind a wall, etc. The release via trigger is post casting and so the opportunity to counterspell has past.
    You can duck behind the wall to avoid counterspell, but you can either hold the action to cast the spell or hold the action to pop out

    Edit: Ah, you mean using your held action on your own turn, I suppose that works actually.
    Last edited by Lunali; 2019-05-23 at 05:41 PM.

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    Troll in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Counter spell situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunali View Post
    You can duck behind the wall to avoid counterspell, but you can either hold the action to cast the spell or hold the action to pop out
    There's really only one way to make it work:

    On your turn:
    Spend Action to Hold a Spell.
    Move
    Decide: Release the spell during your turn, or during someone else's turn, using your Reaction.

    You can't really hold your action to move, because then you'd have no Action or Reaction left to cast the spell with.
    Last edited by Man_Over_Game; 2019-05-23 at 05:43 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by KOLE View Post
    MOG, design a darn RPG system. Seriously, the amount of ideas Iíve gleaned from your posts has been valuable. Youíre a gem of the community here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post

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  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Counter spell situation

    Just don't forget that in order to cast a held spell you need to declare something that will trigger the spell. You can't decide to use it. If the trigger doesn't happen the spell is wasted.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Counter spell situation

    Quote Originally Posted by sophontteks View Post
    Just don't forget that in order to cast a held spell you need to declare something that will trigger the spell. You can't decide to use it. If the trigger doesn't happen the spell is wasted.
    "My trigger is that I decide to use the spell."

    "..."

    "That's a perceivable circumstance from my perspective."

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Counter spell situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Coffee_Dragon View Post
    "My trigger is that I decide to use the spell."

    "..."

    "That's a perceivable circumstance from my perspective."

    *pulls handle, 16-ton weight falls*
    Good luck with that. Hope you have an umbrella.
    Last edited by sophontteks; 2019-05-24 at 05:45 PM.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BloodSnake'sCha's Avatar

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    Default Re: Counter spell situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Coffee_Dragon View Post
    "My trigger is that I decide to use the spell."

    "..."

    "That's a perceivable circumstance from my perspective."

    *pulls handle, 16-ton weight falls*
    I will say that my trigger is "when I can see the enemy" then I look out of cover.

    The only downside of this is that you can have a constraintion spell active.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Counter spell situation

    Quote Originally Posted by BloodSnake'sCha View Post
    I will say that my trigger is "when I can see the enemy" then I look out of cover.

    The only downside of this is that you can have a constraintion spell active.
    No mention of casting a readied spell. You can't ready a move and a spell. If you can see the enemy without moving, then they can see you casting.

    You could technically move, ready a spell, and move again saying you case your readied spell when you see an enemy, which is always true here. But I think a lot of DMs will rule that a trigger has to be something that wasn't already true.
    Last edited by sophontteks; 2019-05-25 at 07:40 AM.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Daemon

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    Default Re: Counter spell situation

    Quote Originally Posted by sophontteks View Post
    No mention of casting a readied spell. You can't ready a move and a spell. If you can see the enemy without moving, then they can see you casting.

    You could technically move, ready a spell, and move again saying you case your readied spell when you see an enemy, which is always true here. But I think a lot of DMs will rule that a trigger has to be something that wasn't already true.
    Yeah, at least for this DM, if you ready an action, the trigger is checked continuously, including when you ready it. So if you ready an action with a trigger that's already true, it triggers immediately (and you have to use it or waste it right then and there).

    I find all the "technically true" arguments that people make to find loopholes tiresome. They seem more like playing the rules rather than engaging with the fiction. It's the really bad kind of meta-gaming IMO--using your knowledge that it's a game with precisely defined mechanical rules to control how your character acts. Your character doesn't know the rules and doesn't have access to the turn-level abstraction. Actions, Bonus actions, Reactions--those don't exist at the character level. So the character can't shouldn't rely on that kind of reasoning for their actions.
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  19. - Top - End - #19
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Yunru's Avatar

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    Default Re: Counter spell situation

    Quote Originally Posted by sophontteks View Post
    No mention of casting a readied spell. You can't ready a move and a spell. If you can see the enemy without moving, then they can see you casting.

    You could technically move, ready a spell, and move again saying you case your readied spell when you see an enemy, which is always true here. But I think a lot of DMs will rule that a trigger has to be something that wasn't already true.
    You can use reactions on your turn. You can be out of sight, ready a spell, then move.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Laserlight's Avatar

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    Default Re: Counter spell situation

    Or Move out of Counterspell range and then Fireball.
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