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    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default What animal forms would actually be good for vampires?

    Picture this; You're an undead legend, you go to monster school, they teach you to turn into a wolf/bat, but you're not Wallachian, so why?

    Perhaps a feline would better fit the undead form than a canid? because of your undead nature you don't need the extra stamina or the intelligence, the more carnivorous teeth are to your benefit as a blood sucker, and the specialisations of an ambush-predator build comes with increased power and agility,climbing ability, claws and sight (yes, dogs aren't colour blind, but from what I've read the cats win out) The only area a vampiric canid would win out in is smell, and maybe that godly-dog-scent power is enough to go team dog, but there are plenty of other options.

    For the bat... Yeah, that's probably the best flier there is for a vampire, a bird would be far less convenient. A bat-sized insect could be a good answer... would such an insect be able to fly at that size, given vampire stamina?

    Let's set out some undead guidelines
    -Doesn't tire, doesn't breath.
    -Resistant to low temperatures,
    -All forms get fangs if they have teeth
    -Animal forms must be predators.
    -Additional powers are subject to the individual.

    Additional rules: Your size is a limit, everything normally larger than yourself would instead be your size, and some things get upscaled to be your size. Imagine a Wolf, Bear, Tiger, Racoon and Rat that all weigh 65kgs; What's the best fighting form given equal mass?

    Now metaphysically I can see it thus; The Vampire finds it easier to transform into canids because "man's best friend" and perhaps it's easier to dumb-down less on brains (being an intellegent soul in a cat brain might be harder to achieve). The Vampires likely prefer bats because they want all the nice mammal features (bats have hands!) and flying squirrels would be too OP for a lawful vampire society.

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    Default Re: What animal forms would actually be good for vampires?

    If everything scales to your size, then you want a cat. Not much can take a cat without a significant size advantage.

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    Default Re: What animal forms would actually be good for vampires?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnoman View Post
    If everything scales to your size, then you want a cat. Not much can take a cat without a significant size advantage.
    Maybe a wolverine?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolverine
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    Default Re: What animal forms would actually be good for vampires?

    Skunk. A skunk is about a pound, a vampire is at least 100 times as large, which means it is going to expel a burning, blinding, noxious agent over ten feet. A normal skunk shoots 15CCs, a Vampire Skunk would shoot 1/3 of a gallon (up to a full gallon for a big vampire.)

    Similarly Cone Snails are extremely poisonous and can shoot darts, tarantulas shoot clouds of irritating hairs, and spitting cobras can accurately blind someone. A giant poison dart frog would also be pretty cool.
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    Default Re: What animal forms would actually be good for vampires?

    For the bat... Yeah, that's probably the best flier there is for a vampire, a bird would be far less convenient. A bat-sized insect could be a good answer... would such an insect be able to fly at that size, given vampire stamina?
    There is a prehistoric dragonfly with an estimated wingspan of about 28 inches (71cm) and a body length of 17 inches (43cm). At least in theory and in the right environment, a bat-sized insect could probably fly.

    That said ... you're positing a scenario in which a fairly typical humanoid turns into a big insectoid. Physically-implausible flight capability for your overgrown mosquito man shouldn't exactly be straining credulity, here; this is already a situation where any explanation of how it works boils down to "because magic."
    Last edited by Aeson; 2019-05-22 at 10:04 PM.

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    Default Re: What animal forms would actually be good for vampires?

    A baboon.

    Monkeys are basically the only animals that form city gangs and harrass people in their own houses in the real world. They're a bit less sneaky in getting into a crack in the window than bats are, but they can always just crack the actual window if needed.

    And the added ability to upscale a baboon to human size is just scary:



    Must be predators my donkey.
    Last edited by Lvl 2 Expert; 2019-05-23 at 02:01 AM.

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    Default Re: What animal forms would actually be good for vampires?

    Hyena and hawk.

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    Default Re: What animal forms would actually be good for vampires?

    My vote goes to the Mantis Shrimp! At their normal size of 10 cm, they throw a punch at 52 mph: the force of a .22 caliber bullet. That's twice the speed of world class boxers, and fast enough to generate a literal shockwave that kills the shrimp's prey even if the punch misses. Now imagine that the size of a person.

    Do you look silly? Yes.
    Can you punch a hole clean through anyone that calls you silly? Also yes.
    Last edited by El'the Ellie; 2019-05-23 at 12:09 PM.
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    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: What animal forms would actually be good for vampires?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    Skunk. A skunk is about a pound, a vampire is at least 100 times as large, which means it is going to expel a burning, blinding, noxious agent over ten feet. A normal skunk shoots 15CCs, a Vampire Skunk would shoot 1/3 of a gallon (up to a full gallon for a big vampire.)

    Similarly Cone Snails are extremely poisonous and can shoot darts, tarantulas shoot clouds of irritating hairs, and spitting cobras can accurately blind someone. A giant poison dart frog would also be pretty cool.
    Quote Originally Posted by El'the Ellie View Post
    My vote goes to the Mantis Shrimp! At their normal size of 10 cm, they throw a punch at 52 mph: the force of a .22 caliber bullet. That's twice the speed of world class boxers, and fast enough to generate a literal shockwave that kills the shrimp's prey even if the punch misses. Now imagine that the size of a person.

    Do you look silly? Yes.
    Can you punch a hole clean through anyone that calls you silly? Also yes.
    I think these options would be curbed somewhat by the square root law.

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    Default Re: What animal forms would actually be good for vampires?

    Square-cube law actually works in the Skunks favor, it would store more liquid percentage wise as it got bigger.
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    Default Re: What animal forms would actually be good for vampires?

    VELOCIRAPTORS! Why wouldn't you be a (double sized) killer dinosour? (Or cat. But partly just because I like cats.)
    Also, have you considered a peregrine falcon for an arial option?

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    Last edited by Caerulea; 2019-05-23 at 04:26 PM.
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    Default Re: What animal forms would actually be good for vampires?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Jack View Post
    I think these options would be curbed somewhat by the square root law.
    That's why I went with Cat. We have examples of human-mass cats to compare to, and they lose nothing in the upscaling.

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    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: What animal forms would actually be good for vampires?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    Square-cube law actually works in the Skunks favor, it would store more liquid percentage wise as it got bigger.
    Yes, but would that liquid get any nastier? There's only so much surface area it can cover, and would the substance be relevant to the undead vampire?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnoman View Post
    That's why I went with Cat. We have examples of human-mass cats to compare to, and they lose nothing in the upscaling.
    See, cats look choice, due to the high-energy muscles and the less specialised limbs.

    But I don't know enough about bears, rodents or much else to solidify cats as top choice. An additional problem I have with cats is that there's a significant bias towards them because of the cats vs dogs debate. It's harder to get fair sources for them because the people who've got enough interest in the subject to talk about it tend to be talking out of their... have a vested interest in their choice of pet.

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    Default Re: What animal forms would actually be good for vampires?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Jack View Post
    Yes, but would that liquid get any nastier? There's only so much surface area it can cover, and would the substance be relevant to the undead vampire?
    The substance gets much, much worse when it gets in your airways or orifices. The skunk shoots a tiny amount normally, so you have to be unlucky not to just get a noseful of scent but with big amounts it is going to blind you and choke you.

    The advantage to a Vampire is it works like hyper-pepper spray that lasts for weeks on targets.

    Cats are fine, a Cougar would be just about the same size as a person anyway and are very good at killing.
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    Default Re: What animal forms would actually be good for vampires?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUajncWmFWA&t=385s

    Tier Zoo is an amazing channal.

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    Default Re: What animal forms would actually be good for vampires?

    The Honey Badger because it's fearless. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3WjnLn9p3U
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    Default Re: What animal forms would actually be good for vampires?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    The substance gets much, much worse when it gets in your airways or orifices. The skunk shoots a tiny amount normally, so you have to be unlucky not to just get a noseful of scent but with big amounts it is going to blind you and choke you.

    The advantage to a Vampire is it works like hyper-pepper spray that lasts for weeks on targets.

    Cats are fine, a Cougar would be just about the same size as a person anyway and are very good at killing.
    If you are looking for range, what about something like the Mozambique Spitting Cobra?
    Also, for arial builds, a swan could be really effective. (And also look nice, attracting humans.)

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    Last edited by Caerulea; 2019-05-23 at 10:16 PM.
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    Default Re: What animal forms would actually be good for vampires?

    Turning into a snake would be great. Like He Who Must Not Be Named

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    Default Re: What animal forms would actually be good for vampires?

    Does it have to be nocturnal or is darkvision in the vampire package?
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    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: What animal forms would actually be good for vampires?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Does it have to be nocturnal or is darkvision in the vampire package?
    Bugger, forgot about that...

    I'd like to go the VTM route and say "yes, but activating darkvision causes their eyes to glow red" which makes for a good tactical tradeoff (vision at the price of stealth) so a natural dark vision would be an advantage.
    Last edited by The Jack; 2019-05-24 at 04:21 AM.

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    Default Re: What animal forms would actually be good for vampires?

    We're already mutilating conservation of mass with this thought exercise, so I think we can get away with playing games with the square-cube law as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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    Default Re: What animal forms would actually be good for vampires?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    We're already mutilating conservation of mass with this thought exercise, so I think we can get away with playing games with the square-cube law as well.
    I thought part of the goal was to avoid mutilating conservation of mass. If you wanted a nocturnal flier, you'd want an owl. If you wanted to conserve mass, you might wind up with something like a pteranodon or Haast's eagle (Haast's eagle may have preyed on humans before extinction, but still was unlikely to mass anywhere near a human).

    A wolf form may be more useful in more urban areas where an exotic form may attract undo attention. The big problem is that most of the wolves advantages (endurance hunting) would be already covered by "vampire powers": the wolf form isn't particularly powerful, just better camouflage (same goes for the owl, but owl is essentially an upgraded bat).

    And yes, this is a question straight out of tier zoo. Just slap the vampire template on a tier zoo "build" and see where it stands.

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    Default Re: What animal forms would actually be good for vampires?

    I have to imagine rats would be rather good when human sized. The big ones can already go toe to toe with animals much bigger than them, at least well enough to make the other animal avoid confrontation, they're great climbers and good at jumping, have dexterous paws that could crudely grip things, can squeeze through tight spaces and have big ol' rodent teeth, which can leave some pretty deep wounds.
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    Default Re: What animal forms would actually be good for vampires?

    Cat isn't the upgrade from wolf that you're looking for. Just say tiger and be done.

    More imaginitively, consider that if spiders were the size of cats the human race would be in trouble. A man - sized jumping spider would be terrifyingly lethal. The tiger would fear it.

    You'd have to remove the predator requirement, though, to reach the ultimate form. Imagine driving down a narrow road late a night, miles from the nearest settlement, bleary lights casting just ahead of your position at even a cautious rate of travel. You round a blind curve and suddenly it's just standing there, and in a split second you must decide between colliding with it or swerving to miss, but your choice is irrelevant as the creature chose this spot to damn you no matter how you react. You try to hault, skidding and clattering you brace for impact but hit nothing, your heart beats wildly as all motion ceases. Relief is fleeting, because the creature is upon you before you grasp your bearings. Blistering speed, uncanny senses, and more martial prowess than most realize, there can be no more opportunistic menace for a cunning vampire to choose than the Pennsylvania whitetail deer. Just ask any auto insurance adjuster.

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    Default Re: What animal forms would actually be good for vampires?

    A 65 pound tardigrade may be concerning. I still like vampire swans though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imbalance View Post
    Blistering speed, uncanny senses, and more martial prowess than most realize, there can be no more opportunistic menace for a cunning vampire to choose than the Pennsylvania whitetail deer. Just ask any auto insurance adjuster.
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    Last edited by Caerulea; 2019-05-28 at 05:47 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caerulea View Post
    A 65 pound tardigrade may be concerning. I still like vampire swans though.
    Water bears are already darn-near immortal, yet harbor no semblance of evil, thus out of reach of the mimicry of the undead.

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    Default Re: What animal forms would actually be good for vampires?

    Eh, a tardigrade doesn't really give anything a vampire doesn't usually already have in fiction. Vampires already go into a death-like sleep where they last for centuries and are difficult to kill.

    Plus, the internet is super-memey about tardigrades. Their indestructibility? Doesn't work that way.


    Anyway, there seem two general paths for this. Mobility and terrifying predator. For the first, I'd say a form that can both fly and swim would be ideal, so maybe some kind of waterfowl. For the second, I'd say Jaguar or Hyena (because size isn't really a factor since everything is scaled up, so I'd take Jaguar over Tiger.) For a combination of both, a crocodile is pretty damn hard to beat.
    Last edited by Eldan; 2019-05-28 at 04:37 PM.
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    Default Re: What animal forms would actually be good for vampires?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Anyway, there seem two general paths for this. Mobility and terrifying predator. For the first, I'd say a form that can both fly and swim would be ideal, so maybe some kind of waterfowl. For the second, I'd say Jaguar or Hyena (because size isn't really a factor since everything is scaled up, so I'd take Jaguar over Tiger.) For a combination of both, a crocodile is pretty damn hard to beat.
    Small crocs aren't that dangerous, and 65kg is a small croc. A 65kg anything can't fly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfeye View Post
    Small crocs aren't that dangerous, and 65kg is a small croc. A 65kg anything can't fly.
    This isn't true. Just like there were once bugs larger then 65kg, so we have had fliers larger.
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    Default Re: What animal forms would actually be good for vampires?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Eh, a tardigrade doesn't really give anything a vampire doesn't usually already have in fiction. Vampires already go into a death-like sleep where they last for centuries and are difficult to kill.

    Plus, the internet is super-memey about tardigrades. Their indestructibility? Doesn't work that way.


    Anyway, there seem two general paths for this. Mobility and terrifying predator. For the first, I'd say a form that can both fly and swim would be ideal, so maybe some kind of waterfowl. For the second, I'd say Jaguar or Hyena (because size isn't really a factor since everything is scaled up, so I'd take Jaguar over Tiger.) For a combination of both, a crocodile is pretty damn hard to beat.
    Crocodile (and any water based critter) has the issue of being a cheaty way of defeating the "can't cross running water" penalty. I doubt it would be allowed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    This isn't true. Just like there were once bugs larger then 65kg, so we have had fliers larger.
    I have to question the 65kg bug. I've heard of dragonflies with >1m wingspan, but they certainly didn't weight 65kg. Also insects during this time enjoyed an atmosphere with three times the oxygen and no vertebrate predator/competitors. They aren't viable now.

    65kg fliers also have the issue of preferring to soar and finding climbing extremely expensive. Expect them to live near cliffs full of useful thermals to avoid manually climbing (in the aircraft sense with wings, not claws). The typical assumption is that the vampire would assume the form when pressed, but a large flyer would assume that the vampire would get into position (probably at the top of a tower) and then change form. Of course if he had both a bat and a pteranodon form, that would be the best of both worlds.

    The deer form has some issues. Should the vampire posses/hypnotize/control other deer and launch them toward a victim, that would be terrifying. A vampire simply attacking vehicles is bad enough (assuming that they are indifferent to anything but special (typically silver) attacks and nothing but a good staking will finish them off), but eventually somebody will finish the job and happen to have silver bullets (perhaps leftover from the zombie craze), and become suspicious. Also the deer has to be sufficiently mobile after being hit by a car to bite the driver and/or passenger, this may require the vampire using a "real" deer to attack the vehicle. Moose are considerably more dangerous (you simply *must* brake for moose), but only the >>100kg are the ones that commonly lethal.

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