What good alignment is Thor?

[paladinofshojo]

He doesn’t seem to fit nicely into any of the three good alignments.

He seems to have some chaotic good moments-his belligerence during drinking as he knocked up a fertility goddess out of wedlock and shooting thunder at trees at a whim.

Lawful good moments- in that he forged the dwarves into the most honor bound and lawful society

And Neutral good- In that while he respects the laws, he is willing to bend them when it suits the greater good, such as allowing Minrah to go with him and Durkon to see the graveyard of worlds on a technicality.

He seems more nuanced than any god in D&D usually is in that he seems to operate as a person with near omnipotent powers instead of a physical manifestation of a concept or natural force.

[Fyraltari]

Chaotic Good, tricked by Loki into making the dwarves Lawful, under the Grey Wolf Doctrine.

[Linneris]

Not confirmed explicitly, but probably Chaotic Good. See, for example, how he immediately exploits a loophole in the "keep the Snarl a secret" rule, because "it's a dumb rule anyway".

[snowblizz]

He doesn’t seem to fit nicely into any of the three good alignments.


He seems more nuanced than any god in D&D usually is in that he seems to operate as a person with near omnipotent powers instead of a physical manifestation of a concept or natural force.

This is no accident by any means. Thor is a character in this webcomic and as such gets alot of character development.

Although, if going by the list of lawful-neutral-chaotic you posted I disagree, he neatly fits into Neutral, he's got Chaotic moments and Lawful moments but mostly he hits it square on Netural as a pragmaticist.

[Jannoire]

Although, if going by the list of lawful-neutral-chaotic you posted I disagree, he neatly fits into Neutral, he's got Chaotic moments and Lawful moments but mostly he hits it square on Netural as a pragmaticist.

Which fits with Durkon's alignment. I think I recall reading that clerics need to be within one step of the deity's alignment. So LG Durkon can worship NG Thor...

[Vinyadan]

Which fits with Durkon's alignment. I think I recall reading that clerics need to be within one step of the deity's alignment. So LG Durkon can worship NG Thor...

I also consider him NG because of this.

[Wizard_Lizard]

the 5e PHB has himas CG I think.

[Sir_Norbert]

And 5e is relevant to OOTS ... how exactly?

[D.One]

the 5e PHB has himas CG I think.

Most sources have him as CG, but that is other worlds' Thor. There are worlds where the "one step rule" is not in effect, and this could be the case here. His behaviour surely seems Chaotic, so I believe the most reasonable possibilities are:

1) CG, but accepts LG clerics (or LG dwarven clerics because of the bet)

2) NG, and thus accepts both CG or LG clerics.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Chaotic Good, tricked by Loki into making the dwarves Lawful, under the Gre Wolf Doctrine.

It's more a hypothesis than a doctrine, honestly.

But yes, if the entirety of the case for Thor being close to Lawful rest on the dwarves (as indeed it does), given how poorly Thor fits with dwarven conduct, and the inescapable fact of the Bet, I cannot help but conclude that Thor is CG, as per all his actions (especially his continued annoyance at rules imposed on him and what straws he grasps when it comes time to break them), and the one-step rule is the exception, precisely because of the Bet.

Grey Wolf

[Morty]

The evidence does seem to point towards Thor being Chaotic Good and the alignment relationship of clerics and gods simply not applying for some reason.

We need to keep in mind two things, though. First, Durkon was written as a cleric of Thor in the earliest days of the comic, when he was unlikely to ever appear and play a role - he was just a well-known deity. Second, the Law/Chaos axis is vague and unclear on a good day.

[Peelee]

Lawful good moments- in that he forged the dwarves into the most honor bound and lawful society

That's not Lawful Good, that's just Good. It was the easiest way to get them to avoid defaulting to Hel.

[understatement]

He cooks barbecue. He's Chaotic.

[woweedd]

Chaotic Good - The attitude of "I hate the rules, but can acknowledge when following them is a good idea" sounds textbook CG. Durkon can be his Cleric because shut up.

[Peelee]

Durkon can be his Cleric because shut up.

I have nothing to contribute at the moment, I just wanted you to know I love this line.

[Doug Lampert]

Which fits with Durkon's alignment. I think I recall reading that clerics need to be within one step of the deity's alignment. So LG Durkon can worship NG Thor...

That's the default, but there are plenty of exceptions. As I point out when this comes up, Forgotten Realms has a NG goddess with CG, NG, LG, LN, and LE clerics. LE is 3 steps away from NG, but they're allowed (special circumstances, but it still must make for interesting casual conversation at the temple get-together when the CG and LE cleric of the same deity are discussing morality and society).

St. Cuthbert is an exception in the 3.5 PHB, and IIRC also from the 3.0 PHB, so there have been exceptions for as long as third edition has existed and it isn't just a Forgotten Realms thing.

Now, is there any POSSIBLE reason why Thor MIGHT, just MIGHT, allow LG dwarfs to be his clerics in this particular setting?

Seriously, arguing against CG based on the one-step rule is not a good argument.

[Wizard_Lizard]

And 5e is relevant to OOTS ... how exactly?

because I know nothing about anything earlier than that, and there may be consistency beyween editions.

[Peelee]

It's more a hypothesis than a doctrine, honestly.

Grey Wolf

Are you saying my Grey Wolf Doctorate is just conjecture?!?

[Wizard_Lizard]

I have nothing to contribute at the moment, I just wanted you to know I love this line.

me too........

[D.One]

...and there may be consistency beyween editions.

I tell him, or any of you tell him?

[Fyraltari]

Are you saying my Grey Wolf Doctorate is just conjecture?!?

Spoiler: These things are surprisingly helpful

Show

[paladinofshojo]

That's not Lawful Good, that's just Good. It was the easiest way to get them to avoid defaulting to Hel.

So building and guiding the dwarven race into the staunch traditionalists to the point where they’re all basically homogenous isn’t considered Lawful?

[Peelee]

So building and guiding the dwarven race into the staunch traditionalists to the point where they’re all basically homogenous isn’t considered Lawful?

Thor: Hey guys there's this bet, if you don't die honorably you go to Hel.

Dwarven race: We think best way to ensure our salvation is to build our society in this specific way. Praise Thor for helping us out!

Thor: Cool, peace out!

Tl;Dr - yes, that is correct.

[D.One]

So building and guiding the dwarven race into the staunch traditionalists to the point where they’re all basically homogenous isn’t considered Lawful?

Well, we don't know how much of Dwarven Society was directly guided by Thor and how much was dwarven interpretation of what Thor said. What we know for sure is that:

1) Thor told them that dying with honor prevented going to Hel

and

2) The dwarfs created an entire dogma of hatred against trees because some day Thor decided to zap a pine or two

[Jasdoif]

My theory is still:

For optimal drama (because it makes little difference otherwise), I like to think Thor is CG by nature, but has made a conscious effort to be more Lawful so he can grant clerical powers to LG dwarven worshippers...either because he feels responsible for the dwarves' afterlife conditions, or because he really wants to win that bet.

He's not very good at it, though, and it takes most of his focus just to make the little headway into NG he has...which is why a great deal of his observed behavior is chaotic, why he frequently appears clueless distracted, and why he has (Lawful) devas on his staff.

[Wizard_Lizard]

My theory is still:

that makes sense

[Morgana]

I remember there being gods in the books that have different pre-requisites for their followers, being exceptions to the alignment rules. So Thor could very easily be a CG god that has the especial clause of accepting worship of LG clerics

[martianmister]

He's Chaotic Good on the inside, but forcing himself to be lawful on the outside.

[2D8HP]

the 5e PHB has himas CG I think.

And 5e is relevant to OOTS ... how exactly?

because I know nothing about anything earlier than that, and there may be consistency beyween editions.

I tell him, or any of you tell him?

OotS is based (a little) on 3.5 rules



and there have been changes between editions (for better AND FOR WORSE!

I am really, really impressed by your ability to turn everything into a "old D&D was better" statement. Here we have a thread about tolerance for racial fetishes, and somehow you still manage to make your point!

You're like this forums Cato the Elder.

...In the 1974 LBB's all classes had 1d6 hit points at first level.
With the '75 "alternative system" Fighting-men were raised to d8's (and Magic Users were dropped to d4's).
With the '78 AD&D PHB Fighters hit points were raised to d10's.
Now it's 10 plus or minus the CON modifier at first level!
When does hit point inflation stop!
Stand athwart the editions and say no more!....

), but there's also been good, true, and beautiful GLORIOUS consistantcies such as Thor's Alignment which was "Chaotic Good" in both the 1980 Deities & Demi-Gods, as well as the 2002 one, and Thor is also "CG" in 2014 "5e" D&D (the big exception was in 1976's Gods, Demi-Gods because "Chaotic Good" wasn't an option in the original 1974 rules).

I've little doubt that Thor is "CG" in the Stickverse as well.

Carthago delenda est!

[Jay R]

The alignment has been discussed more than once in the comic.

Thor is Lawful Stupid.