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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Default Re: Yora reviews Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - All of it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnoman View Post
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    You do realize that Ezri Dax being a thing means Jadzia dies, and thus any mention of her existence is a massive spoiler, don't you?
    I never mentioned the full name. I just named the first name.

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    Default Re: Yora reviews Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - All of it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr View Post
    I never mentioned the full name. I just named the first name.
    I believe Gnoman is talking about the later parts of Kantaki's post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kantaki View Post
    I guess it's a mix? Kinda circle-ish?
    ....
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    Default Re: Yora reviews Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - All of it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnoman View Post
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    You do realize that Ezri Dax being a thing means Jadzia dies, and thus any mention of her existence is a massive spoiler, don't you?
    I mean, the series is about twenty years by now and Yora is rewatching it.
    So... I didn't think about it? Oops?
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  4. - Top - End - #154
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    Default Re: Yora reviews Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - All of it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kantaki View Post
    I mean, the series is about twenty years by now and Yora is rewatching it.
    So... I didn't think about it? Oops?
    Are we even spoilering stuff in this thread? I very much get the impression that absolutely everyone participating has seen it all. Especially Yora, who explains how each episode fits into the greater mythos in regards of things to come.

  5. - Top - End - #155
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    Default Re: Yora reviews Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - All of it!

    Whatever you are talking about, I am only covering things as they happen because the show was not created in one single piece. Judging an episode only makes sense when comparing it to what came before.
    We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on very tall tower of other dwarves.

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    Default Re: Yora reviews Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - All of it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    Whatever you are talking about, I am only covering things as they happen because the show was not created in one single piece. Judging an episode only makes sense when comparing it to what came before.
    Do you as thread creator/curator want us to spoiler tag things that happen beyond where you are at in the show? Because the Dragonlance thread is doing that, as some folks reading along don't know the full plot.

    So far I haven't seen any of that from this thread - everyone has already seen DS9 and is fine with spoilers. It would be nice to get a consensus now while we're still relatively early in the plot.

    Edit: Just in case it wasn't clear, my vote is for no spoiler tags, unless someone comes out and says "I've never seen DS9, please spoiler tag stuff."
    Last edited by Rodin; 2019-06-30 at 04:29 AM.

  7. - Top - End - #157
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    smile Re: Yora reviews Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - All of it!

    S2E20: The Marquis, Part 1

    A Cardassian freighter leaves the station and a Starfleet engineer sabotages something in the airlock. When it powers up its engines it immediately explodes. O'Brien and Kira search the debris and find signs of the sabotage that looks like Federation technology. Surprisingly, the Cardassians aren't seeming to do anything about it. Sisko is visited by Captain Handerson who is leading the Starfleet staff stationed in the demilitarized zone on the Cardassian border, who is telling him that there's trouble in the colonies that ended up on the Cardassian side of the new border.

    The engineer is meeting with some other shady people on the station, but soon after gets kidnapped by two aliens that have been following him. Sisko gets a visit from Gul Dukat who tells him that there are Federation terrorists attacking Cardassians from colonies on both sides of the border. He invites Sisko to come with him to the colonies and take an unannounced look at the situation themselves. As they are reaching the demilitarized zone, the find a Federation freighter being attacked by two cardassian Shuttles that have been heavily uparmed. Dukat tries to call them and order them to stop the attack, but they ignore him, Before they can reach the battle, another small Federation ship arrives and destroys the two Cardassian ships.

    Quark is approached by a Vulcan woman who wants to make a business proposition in private, and Quark tells her to come back later that night. He keeps stalling for a long time to hit on her, but when he finally gets around to ask what she wants to propose, she goes straight to the point and tells him she wants to buy weapons. And quite a lot of them. Preferably with additional supplies in the future. Quark is taken back at first, but says he'll see what he can do.

    When they reach the colony where Handerson is stationed, the colonists are already arguing with the Cardassian Gul in charge of the region about the fight. Both he and Handerson are surprised to see Sisko and Dukat walk in. During the argument the Gul reveals that they got the man who sabotaged the freighter and got his full confession, but claim that he killed himself in his cell. The colonist get even more angry and a minor fight breaks out. Sisko and Handerson have a private talk about the situation and Handerson tells him that he doesn't know anything about terrorists, but the Cardassians are constantly trying to bully the colonists that they allowed to stay on their side of the border in the peace treaty to leave. And he thinks they have every right to fight back against it. When Sisko returns to the station with Dukat, he has a fierce argument with Kira about the colonists having a right to fight against the Cardassians.

    The Vulcan and a Starfleet officer take out the guard in front of Dukat's quarters and try to kidnap him. This puts everyone on edge and Odo is annoyed that he's supposed to keep the station safe but nobody allows him to do his work. Figuring out on which ship the kidnappers left turns out very easy, and they receive a message from the kidnappers who call themselves the Marquis. Sisko, Kira, and Bashir go after them and track the ship to a small planet. As they beam down, they are held up by Handerson and his fighters.

    --

    Multi-parters turn out to be always very difficult to review. Nothing gets resolved so, it's hard to say what works and what doesn't. This episode we're mostly introduced to a new situation. The colonies that ended up on the other side of the Cardassian border where the subject of a TNG episode that aired just four weeks before this one. Odd idea to have both shows deal with the same situation at the same time but not make it some kind of crossover.

    Dukat is a smug as ever, but he doesn't do anything despicable this episode and is appears to be genuinely trying to solve the situation with Sisko without escalating it. Some characters mention that the deal the Cardassians got in the peace treaty was really quite good for them and they want to avoid the agreement getting nullified at every cost. Yeah, they probably killed the prisoner themselves, but since he murdered 60ish people of a freighter crew, he probably would have been sentenced to death anyway. Claiming that he killed himself is just to show that they feel confident to get away with killing prisoners without a trial.

    While they are pursuing the ship that kidnapped Dukat, Bashir brings up the question if Sisko will fire on a Federation ship. But I think this really isn't an ethical problem. In that moment, they are doing police work to rescue a hostage. This is not about taking part in a war against Federation citizens on the side of the Cardassians. This is domestic terrorism. They blew up a friendly cargo ship "in port" at a Bajoran station and assaulted Starfleet Security personel. (Without causing serious harm to the guard, but still.)
    Assisting the Cardassians in ethnic cleansing on their side of the new border would be ethically fishy. Fighting terrorists who commit attacks in both Federation and Cardassian space is not. Now if the Bajorans don't want to take action against the bombing of a Cardassian ship and the kidnapping of a Cardassian within their territory, that's their thing to decide. But that doesn't change the issue of whether the Federation should fight Federation citizens launching terrorist attacks from bases in Federation territory. The man who blew up the freighter was a native of a colony on the Federation side, after all.

    I actually have no clue what's happening in the second part. I am curious to see how these things play out.
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    Default Re: Yora reviews Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - All of it!

    It's Maquis, not Marquis.

    Marquis is a nobility title in French, Maquis was the French Resistance during WW2, which were name after a Mediterranean biome/type of forest that could hide Rebels and bandits.

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    Default Re: Yora reviews Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - All of it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr View Post
    It's Maquis, not Marquis.

    Marquis is a nobility title in French, Maquis was the French Resistance during WW2, which were name after a Mediterranean biome/type of forest that could hide Rebels and bandits.
    Wow, I never knew! When I first watched it in the 90's, there was no easy way to look stuff like this up. And seeing it that much and exclusively through Star Trek, 'Maquis' became just another made up word for me, like 'Klingon', and I never questioned that assumption.

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    Default Re: Yora reviews Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - All of it!

    I knew who the maquis were in ww2, I wasnt aware of what the term meant. I figured it was french for freedom fighter or something.
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    Default Re: Yora reviews Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - All of it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    I knew who the maquis were in ww2, I wasnt aware of what the term meant. I figured it was french for freedom fighter or something.
    It was mostly a term coming from Corsica, apparently. Someone going to the Maquis would basically mean "bushwacking"

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    S2E21: The Maquis, Part 2

    Handerson has a talk with Sisko and invites him to work for the Maquis. Sisko refuses and he, Kira, and Bashir get stunned while the Maquis leave the planet, and are allowed to return to the station. He's awaited by the regional admiral who wants him to get in contact with the Maquis and remind them that they are Federation citizens and should obey Federation law. He doesn't tell her that Handerson is one of the Maquis leaders. The admiral leaves and Kira comes in, and Sisko goes on a rant about the main problem with the whole situation being that Starfleet Command is sitting very cushy on Earth and having no clue how life in the colonies actually is.

    Odo has caught Quark having had business with the Vulcan woman from the Maquis. He admits that he put her in touch with weapons dealers and Sisko continues to be pissed when he hears how much stuff the Maquis had been buying. A legate of the Cardassian High Command comes to see him and claims that they have just discovered that Gul Dukat had illegally supplied weapons to the Cardassian colonists in the Demilitarized Zone. I assume it could be quite embarrassing for the High Command if it turns out that Dukat isn't going to be killed. Sisko takes that as an invitation to go and rescue him.

    The Maquis tries to get information from Dukat by having their Vulcan scan his mind, but it isn't working. Instead, Dukat keeps taunting them. The leader decides to start torturing him instead, but that moment Sisko arrives. He tells the Maquis to surrender, but Dukat is interrupting by shouting to him to start shooting them until he gets tired and starts beating up his guards. The Maquis are taken as prisoners, but Sisko decides to let the leader go and give Handerson a message that Starfleet doesn't know about him yet and he still has a chance to return.

    Dukat is surprised when he hears his superiors wanted to sacrifice him as a scapegoat. And since Cardassian trials are really just about reading the charges, showing the evidence, and speaking the sentence, having him return to Cardassia wouldn't change anything. So he stays on the station for the time being and helps Sisko with his investigation. He helps them tracking down the ship with the next weapon shipment to the Cardassian colonists. They intercept the ship and the captain is very uncooperative with Sisko. Again Dukat barges his way in and intimidates the captain with threats to destroy his ship.

    In the station jail, Quark and the Vulcan are sharing a cell. Quark goes into a debate with her about approaching their fight for freedom and safety with the logic of business. With the Central Command being caught pretty much red handed about smuggling weapons to their colonists and not being able to continue to do so, and both sides currently being evenly matched, the price for peace is currently at an all time low. The Vulcan can't argue with that and decides to cooperate and confess what she knows about the next Maquis attacks.

    Sisko makes another visit to the colonies to speak with their council. There he meets Handerson and tells him that they know about their planned attack on a Cardassian weapons depot, and that he will prevent them from destroying it and start an actual war with the Cardassians. He asks Handersons again to return to Starfleet, and Handerson asks him again to join the Maquis.

    Sisko makes plans to intercept the attack before they can get to the Cardassians. Dukat of course advises to destroy the Maquis ships on site, but Sisko tells everyone to only start firing when getting shot at. When the two Maquis ships arrive, Sisko first tries to have them caught with tractor beams, which causes them to start shooting to get free. In the fight, Sisko's engines get disabled and Handerson loses his weapons, so he has no choice to make an escape. Dukat is complaining about Sisko not destroying them when he has the chance. Sisko gets praise from his superiors, but has doubts that anything has actually been solved.

    --

    So that's the other half. It's a pretty well done episode, but there is nothing really exciting or memorable about it. But I didn't notice any specific flaws or shortcomings either.
    You could say that the one part where it's weakest is in the resolution. The whole point of the ending is that nothing got actually resolved, but this also means that both episodes had characters talking in circles around the same questions several times and nothing actually comes out of it. We don't really learn anything new about any character, except perhaps for establishing that Sisko gets really worked up about Starfleet traitors. That would be a possibly distinguishing character trait, but it only comes up the two or three times he is dealing with traitors. From what I remember, it doesn't translate into a general devotion to the Federation or Starfleet.

    I actually can't think about anything I haven't already said last episode. It's really just more of the same. Not sure why this had to be a two-parter. It's not like the subject matter has the impact to warrant it.
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  13. - Top - End - #163
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    Default Re: Yora reviews Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - All of it!

    If it's all the same to you people spoilers for future episodes would be nice - from reading this I actually consider starting to watch the show - probably from a point where stuff gets really good (now??).

    But don't worry too much. I can just not read here if it becomes too spoilery, anyway.
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    Default Re: Yora reviews Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - All of it!

    The Maquis episodes had a lot of character moment highlights. Quark shined very well, and Sisko/Dukat discussion were filled to the brim with chemistry. I also really, really loved Sisko's angry speech to Kira and Angels in Paradise.

    All in all, what I find disappointing with this episode is that it was forced on the DS9 writers purely to satisfy a status quo to launch Voyager on. The DS9 writers were setting up and working on the Dominion and the Cardassians as the main villain, and having a new faction of Federation castoffs was not something they ever wished to work with.

    They eventually managed to make a few quite good episodes with the Maquis, but the whole concept was utterly wasted as Voyager never did anything with that premise.

    Because Voyager's writers were cowards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr View Post
    All in all, what I find disappointing with this episode is that it was forced on the DS9 writers purely to satisfy a status quo to launch Voyager on. The DS9 writers were setting up and working on the Dominion and the Cardassians as the main villain, and having a new faction of Federation castoffs was not something they ever wished to work with.

    They eventually managed to make a few quite good episodes with the Maquis, but the whole concept was utterly wasted as Voyager never did anything with that premise.

    Because Voyager's writers were cowards.
    The idea that there would be a lot of conflict between Starfleet and Maquis members on Voyager never really made much sense anyway. Starfleet and the Maquis are both made up of Federation citizens who grew up in the same culture and fundamentally have the same values. The only real difference between them is a political dispute that is wholly irrelevant when they are in the Gamma Quadrant, so why would there be any conflict between the two crews?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bguy View Post
    The idea that there would be a lot of conflict between Starfleet and Maquis members on Voyager never really made much sense anyway. Starfleet and the Maquis are both made up of Federation citizens who grew up in the same culture and fundamentally have the same values. The only real difference between them is a political dispute that is wholly irrelevant when they are in the Gamma Quadrant, so why would there be any conflict between the two crews?
    "You betrayed everything Starfleet stands for and ran off to be a terrorist!" is the kind of thing that tends to cause friction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnoman View Post
    "You betrayed everything Starfleet stands for and ran off to be a terrorist!" is the kind of thing that tends to cause friction.
    The only Starfleet officers who seem to have really hard feelings about the Maquis are Starfleet officers who have been personally betrayed by Maquis members.

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    i.e. Sisko with Eddington and Picard with Ro.


    Beyond that most Starfleet officers seem to have at least some sympathy for the Maquis cause. (With even as hard core an officer as Admiral Nechayev admitting that if she lived in the DMZ she would keep a phaser under the pillow.) There certainly isn't any kind of deep hatred for the Maquis among Starfleet personnel that would make it difficult for them to work alongside Maquis personnel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bguy View Post
    The idea that there would be a lot of conflict between Starfleet and Maquis members on Voyager never really made much sense anyway. Starfleet and the Maquis are both made up of Federation citizens who grew up in the same culture and fundamentally have the same values. The only real difference between them is a political dispute that is wholly irrelevant when they are in the Gamma Quadrant, so why would there be any conflict between the two crews?
    Okay, that's an interesting point, because it means the entire premise around the crew composition made absolutely no sense and was pointless from the get-go. They wasted 2 TNG episodes and 2 DS9 episodes setting up that had no consequence whatsoever, foisted this subplot on writers while it never being in a position to actually reap the spoils of what they sowed.

    It's one or the other:

    1- They create a premise with potential and wasted it

    2- They created a premise with no potential and just ignored it

    Either way, they screwed up.

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    Thumbs up Re: Yora reviews Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - All of it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mightymosy View Post
    If it's all the same to you people spoilers for future episodes would be nice - from reading this I actually consider starting to watch the show - probably from a point where stuff gets really good (now??).
    Absolutely! The late episodes of season 2 are where everything gets traction and the main plot for the other 5 following seasons kicks off. Almost everything up to this point was for the sake of completion, but not the stuff everyone is still nostalgic about 25 years later. About now is where an okay Star Trek show turns into something much more outstanding.

    Having just watched it critically, Season 1 can easily be skipped.
    S1E1 The Emissary might be useful to watch, but I think having read my recap should also have introduced all the important pieces of information about the setting. I rated four episodes as green and worth watching, but they have practically no continuity relevance.

    Season 2 could also be skipped, though it is considerably higher quality. Except for the last episode S2E16 The Jem'Hadar. That one is the first episode of the continious main story of the remaining five seasons. That one I would say is absolutely mandatory.
    Other episodes in season 2 that I think should be watched, though are not mandatory, are S2E19 Blood Oath, S2E22 The Wire, and S2E23 Crossover. The first two are pretty important establishing moments for two of my four favorite characters, and Crossover is ... well, Crossover. A couple of future episodes will be so much more fun if you watched this one.

    If you think about watching the show for the first time, now is exactly the perfect point to start! This is precisely the point where one should stop reading recaps and watch the actual episodes. The Wire and Crossover are both fan favorite classics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr View Post
    All in all, what I find disappointing with this episode is that it was forced on the DS9 writers purely to satisfy a status quo to launch Voyager on. The DS9 writers were setting up and working on the Dominion and the Cardassians as the main villain, and having a new faction of Federation castoffs was not something they ever wished to work with.
    Oh, yes. That actually makes perfect sense. Voyager is probably at the peak of pre-production right around this time. I wonder if the first decision was to have some of the Voyager crew be renegades, or to have the first season start at Deep Space Nine? I wouldn't actually be surprised if it was the later.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr View Post
    It's one or the other:

    1- They create a premise with potential and wasted it

    2- They created a premise with no potential and just ignored it

    Either way, they screwed up.
    Well yes and no. As a premise for Voyager I agree it was a dud, but for Deep Space Nine itself the introduction of the Maquis did lead to a number of good episodes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bguy View Post
    Well yes and no. As a premise for Voyager I agree it was a dud, but for Deep Space Nine itself the introduction of the Maquis did lead to a number of good episodes.
    I'd like you to remember all the Maquis episodes that DS9 had. I agree they were all 100% good, but they also all were focused 100% on a great antagonist character more than the Maquis itself. The threat were the Maquis leaders who were the focus of the plot, never the Maquis themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr View Post
    I'd like you to remember all the Maquis episodes that DS9 had. I agree they were all 100% good, but they also all were focused 100% on a great antagonist character more than the Maquis itself. The threat were the Maquis leaders who were the focus of the plot, never the Maquis themselves.
    That's true.

    I always wish they had done an episode where some faction in the Bajoran government was secretly assisting the Maquis with arms and advisors. It would make sense that there would be Bajorans who wanted to still be fighting the Cardassians (and would see helping the Maquis as an easy way to do that) and a Bajoran-Maquis connection would make the Maquis much more relevant to the DS9 story.

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    You could even have First Minister Shakaar himself be involved with providing the illicit support which would have given him an actual plotline and made his relationship with Kira much more interesting.

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    Personally, I liked this episode because it shows just how SMART quark is. He is really good at talking, able to argue logic with vulcans and later on
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    honor with klingons, and human nature with garek.
    Quark is a pretty awesome character all the way around, him and garek have always been my favorite. This scene is one of my favorites as a later season spoiler.
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    Default Re: Yora reviews Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - All of it!

    Quark is interesting because he's a scheming caricature of a profit-focused merchant but he has actual skills to pull that off including knowing how to read people and figure out how to talk to them.
    Now with half the calories!

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    Default Re: Yora reviews Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - All of it!

    I would like to put out that Sisko's friend in the Maquis two part is named Cal Hudson, and is pronounced very clearly, so am not sure where "Handerson" is coming from. You can even look up the episodes on Memory-Alpha to get the guy's name. Which is Calvin Hudson, or Cal Hudson. You can use Memory-Alpha to get everybody's names spelled correctly.

    To be honest, Voyager had alot of potential, that they deliberately to ruin by running it as basically TNG Lite, with Kazon (Discount crappy Klingons), actual Klingons that showed up, the Borg, etc. The entire show had potential to mine, to explore. Instead they completely botched it. And then promptly botched Enterprise.

    Harry Kim never got promoted, Native American Guy never changed from being Native American Guy, Tuvok was interesting, Neelix was annoying. Oh, plus a hologram and a cyborg, who got the most character development that actually occurred.

    It's a wonder that Voyager ran as long as it did. That one was both backed by the network, and the by the Executives who were meddling in it so much.
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  26. - Top - End - #176
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    Default Re: Yora reviews Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - All of it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mightymosy View Post
    If it's all the same to you people spoilers for future episodes would be nice - from reading this I actually consider starting to watch the show - probably from a point where stuff gets really good (now??).

    But don't worry too much. I can just not read here if it becomes too spoilery, anyway.
    If I were you I would just cherry pick the good episodes. There should be plenty of guides, which episodes are really good or essential. Or just follow Yora's recommendations.

    DS9 is still firmly from the age of episodic television. In the last two seasons they have some arc stories but even then it's at most some 6 episodes with a common theme, you can even skip bad episodes from those arcs without missing much.
    There may be a handful of essential lore episodes (mostly the first and last episodes of a session) but that's it. And most of those are pretty high on any watchlist, anyway.

    The reason I am saying this is that with DS9 is not as clear cut as with TNG, where seasons 1 and 2 were completely irredeemable. Season 1 and 2 of DS9 are overall watchable but still looking for direction. And there are some true gems in there that must be seen. And there are some real stinkers in later seasons that you might want to avoid.

  27. - Top - End - #177
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    S2E22: The Wire

    Bashir and Garak are discussing one one his favorite Cardassian novels. Bashir finds it really tedious, being a long family saga about several generations dedicating their lives to serve the state without anything interesting happening. Garak gets unusually bristly and starts getting a severe headache, but declines to let Bashir examine him. In the evening, Garak goes to Quark and wants him to get some kind of special device for him. When Bashir asks Quark about it, he seems to make up something unconvincing.

    Some time later Bashir gets a call from Quark that Garak is at his bar and getting completely drunk. Garak first feels very sorry about his previous outburst, but when Bashir tries to trick him to come to the infirmary, he gets very angry and has some kind of stroke. Even though the infirmary is literally next door to the bar, Bashir has him beamed there as an emergency transport. While Garak is out, he finds some kind of implant in his brain and assume it's part of the issue.

    Bashir talks with Odo, and Odo tells him to come to the security station late at night, so they can spy on Quark when he's probably going to make his call to get a seller for the device Garak ordered. Quark calls a Cardassian who used to work on the station and is quite happy to hear from him again. Quark gives him the product number of the device and he runs it through his computer to see if he can get Quark one. But he immediately sees alarms going of because the technology is so restricted that even the product number of confidenital, and now probably the Obsidian Order is going to come after him. Odo explains to Bashir that the group is some kind of hybrid of the Stasi and CIA.

    When Bashir next comes to the infirmery, he discovers that Garak is gone and returned to his quarters. He goes looking for him, and when he doesn't answer the door he overrides the lock and find Garak taking heavy painkillers. He finally gives in to Bashir's questions and tells him that he was given a brain implant that surpresses pain and makes him immune to torture. Since he was exiled his life on the station has been horrible and everywhere he goes the Federation has installed intense lights and turned down the temperature. The implant was designed to work only for weeks or months at the most, but it has been running for years now and starts to fail. Bashir offers to help him turning it off and adjusting to life without it. But Garak doesn't want any help and tells Bashir that he was exiled when he was ordered to kill a fugitive who he believed to have been put on a prisoner transport, and when the captain of the transport refused to delay his departure for checking all the prisoners, Garak had the transport destroyed with all the prisoners, crew, and his assistant Elim who was still arguing with the captain. Important relatives of some Cardassians on the ship were furious and had Garak punished. Bashir says this doesn't change anything about doing his job of treating a patient and Garak finally gives in.

    Unfortunately, the station doesn't have any good records about Cardassian neurology and so the only thing Bashir can do is keep him observed while his brain is adjusting to the changes. Once the treatment is starting Garak is out for a good while. Odo comes by because he has a couple of questions about old cases involving the Obsidian Order and hopes Garak might be able to help him. Bashir tells him it will have to wait until Garak has recovered but can't say how long it will take or if he will recover at all, which Odo thinks is good reason to wake him up now and get his answers while he still can. Bashir tells him in very clear terms that he can't see Garak because ensuring the safety of his patients is his highest duty, and he won't be budging under any circumstances, which turns out to be a reply that Odo accepts without complaint.

    When Garak is up again, he is extremely on edge and goes ranting about hating the station and Bashir. He gets so angry that he decides to tell Bashir the truth about his exile. His crime wasn't that he was too ruthless in his job, but instead he had allowed a couple of children to go free because he knew interrogating wouldn't get them anything and with the occupation forces already withdrawing there was no point in having them executed. Not out of compassion, but because he felt lazy that day. He and his assistant Elim where working for the Obsidian Order under Enebran Tain, one of the most powerful people in the empire. But when Elim found out what Garak had done, he was furious about it and reported him. So he got punished with exile, having thrown away his whole life out of laziness. Bashir tries to calm him down, but instead Garak starts attacking him but has another stroke.

    Garak is taken back to the infirmary while he is out again, and Bashir discovers that his body isn't producing enough of a substance that removes toxins from his brain. He considers synthesizing it until Garak's brain starts producing it again, but doing so might take longer than Garak has left. His assistant proposes to turn the implant back on in the meantime, but Garak has woken up again and declares that he doesn't want it activated ever again, even if he might die without it. Seemingly much calmer now he explains to Bashir that Elim wasn't just his assistant, but his life long best friend. And they weren't just working for Tain but where his right hand men. When he heard that there was investigations against him for having let prisoners escape, he framed Elim for it to save himself. But he found out that Elim already had had the same idea and betrayed Garak first. Bashir asks him why he is even telling him these stories, and Garak says that he is hoping that there might be at least someone who forgives him for what he has done. Bashir answered that he is forgiving him, for whatever he might have done.

    Bashir goes to Cardassia to see Enebran Tain. Who turns out to be a friendly chubby grandpa in a cardigan. He was expecting Bashir and arranged for the border patrols to let him through. He offers him a tea for drink, which Bashir gladly accepts as it is his favorite. Yes, Tain knows. And yes, he did retire years ago, he just likes to stay informed about things. He is eager to hear how Garak's health is doing and Bashir thinks that he's probably dying. Tain wonders why Bashir is trying to keep Garak alive if he is his friend. But he will give Bashir the medical information he needs to treat him, not out of compassion, but because Garak doesn't deserve such an easy death.
    - "What a lovely sentiment."
    - "And it is from the heart, I assure you."
    Before Bashir leaves, he asks Tain who exactly Elim was to Garak. Tain finds it very funny and tells him that Elim Garak is his full name. He also asks him to tell Garak that he misses him.

    Garak is soon back on his feet and back to his old charming self. He has a new Cardassian novel for Bashir that might be more to his tastes, a futuristic story about the Cardassians being at war with the Klingons. Bashir wishes to get some straight answers from Garak, but he says the answers that he got will have to do. Bashir says that his stories were all contradicting each other.
    - "I assure you, they were all true."
    - "Even the lies?"
    - "Especially the lies."

    --

    Garak episode #4. I decided to number these too. In the previous three he was more of a minor character who was a bit mysterious, but now we got one of many episodes to come that are all about him being a highly entertaining deceiver. I am really looking forward to more of these.

    Unsurprisingly, I rank this one among the very good. Not Top 10, and probably not Top 20, but certainly somewhere up there. This episode is basically just Garak and Bashir, with everyone else not being much more than extras in this story. I think we haven't been seeing much of Bashir for a while now. Garak is of course great, because I can't think of any case where Garak wasn't great. I remember him often pretending that he wasn't a spy, but at this point there is already no room for any deniability left. He was a top ranking agent in the inner circle of the head of the Obsidian Order, but we also have confirmation that his exile is real, But what he was exiled for is the big question that remains open. A few episodes back we had already established that Garak is quite eager to use an opportunity to return to Cardassia, even though he isn't much of a supporter of the current leadership. This episode expands on that. It also reveals that his problems are not just a disagreement with his old superiors, but that there is also a serious conflict in how he sees himself and his relationship to his state. Assuming everything he told Bashir was completely fake from start to finish, he clearly must have been a horrible person doing a lot of horrible things, whatever they might have been. That comes with the job. He appears to deeply regret a lot of it, but at the same time he still very deeply holds dedicating his life to the state as a major defining part of his identity. Which I guess is the main thing that makes his exile such a terrible punishment for him. It's all really still quite vague here, so I think I'll leave this topic off for later when we get more revelations about his character.

    Tain is also fun in his short appearance. Given what has already been established about the Cardassian military, an intelligence agency that even the military is cautious about must be really bad. And it's leader surely one of the biggest villains in the empire. Yet the man himself is nothing but friendly and cordial when you get to see him, though he also shows completely confidence in his own knowledge of how dangerous he really is.

    And that sneaky foreshadowing at the end that probably everyone will have forgotten when it becomes relevant.
    We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on very tall tower of other dwarves.

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    SFdebris made a great analyzis of Garak's life stories. They are all meant to manipulate Bashir one way or another.

    The first lie is meant to attack Bashir's idea of who Garak was. Telling a story of how Garak was a monster because of his past actions, and therefore shouldn't deserve his care.

    The second lie is meant to attack Bashir's beliefs of who Garak is. It's a story that seem more benign at the surface, but it's actually Garak confessing that he regrets doing a good action. That he has a sense of revulsion at himself for not torturing orphans. This lie is meant to sell Bashir the idea that Garak is still a monster.

    The third story.. Is meant to pull Bashir's strings, and is deliberately aimed at name-dropping Enabran Tain's retirement home. Garak wants to convey the information at this point. He wants to live, but he doesn't want to expose himself to Bashir by outright telling him, so he spins yet another tale.

  29. - Top - End - #179
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    Oh, yeah. He would have known that Tain doesn't want him to die, one way or another. And if Bashir would ask him for help, he would get it. Either Tain still hates him and wants to prolong his life in exile, or Tain has forgiven him and wants him and wants to keep him from dying. Even if Garak didn't knew what exactly Bashir needs to know to save him, Tain probably would know, and have the means to acquire the information for Bashir.
    I had never thought of that before.
    We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on very tall tower of other dwarves.

  30. - Top - End - #180
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    I love how deeply layered garek is. All that analysis is likely true, but I bet there is even more to it than that. Garek LOVES to troll bashir. Its been awhile since I watched, but to me bashir always seemed like the kind of guy who loved the idea of playing spy while having little understanding of what it really MEANS to be a secret agent. So he keeps giving bashir hints, little tidbits that may or may not be true, often contradicting himself from story to story, while he enjoys watching bashir try to piece it all together. Its possible a part of him WANTS bashir to figure him out as well, as he seems to genuinely like him rather a lot. So every now and then a little bit more of a backstory that has matching details grows from him.

    As for going back to cardassia, recall the first book he gave to bashir? Its a classic on cardassia all about loyal service to the empire. This is cardassian culture in a nutshell. they are raised on loyalty to the empire. Loyalty above all else, friends, family, it doesnt matter. Even the power hungry types are working within the system and honestly feel the state would be better off with them in charge. They dont want to overthrow the system, they dont want to break it, they want to become a more powerful part of it! So of course the thought of going back home would be incredibly tempting to garek, its all he has ever really known. But he is also aware of how it would be a bad idea right now. He is aware of the problems with the system, with how he would be treated if he did go back and avoided being executed or imprisoned.
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