Results 1 to 4 of 4
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Orc in the Playground
     
    stewstew5's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2016

    Default Two-creature race balance

    I’m in the process of creating a race that allows the player to control two entities and am having difficulty with the language. These are the racial features that aren’t “standard”:

    **Twins**
    Duo are two separate creatures with identical ability scores that share hit points and health, class level, class features, experience points and proficiencies

    **Double Action**
    Once one twin has used an action they grant their twin a usable action. The same goes for bonus actions and reactions
    - a Duo cannot use their action to cast a spell if their twin has cast a spell with the same casting time on the same turn
    - if a Duo uses a feature or combination of features that allows more than one attack with the attack action, subtract the attacks made from the most attacks they can make. This is the most attacks the other can make with the next attack action they make on the same turn

    **Survive**
    If a Duo takes enough damage to be reduced to 0 hit points, the other must make a DC 10 constitution save. On a success it is restored to the hit points it had before the damage, but the other is still unconscious dying. On a failure, they are both unconscious and dying.

    If both twins stabilize, they separately meet the conditions to become conscious again

    If one twin stabilizes and the other dies, the dead one becomes separate from the living one until alive again

    **Synchronized**
    A Duo can share its space with its twin


    This is very confusing and potentially open to abuse. How can I clean it up?
    Last edited by stewstew5; 2019-05-27 at 11:15 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Segev's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location

    Default Re: Two-creature race balance

    Quote Originally Posted by stewstew5 View Post
    I’m in the process of creating a race that allows the player to control two entities and am having difficulty with the language. These are the racial features that aren’t “standard”:

    **Twins**
    Duo are two separate creatures with identical ability scores that share hit points and health, class level, class features, experience points and proficiencies

    **Double Action**
    Once one twin has used an action they grant their twin a usable action. The same goes for bonus actions and reactions
    - a Duo cannot use their action to cast a spell if their twin has cast a spell with the same casting time on the same turn
    - if a Duo uses a feature or combination of features that allows more than one attack with the attack action, subtract the attacks made from the most attacks they can make. This is the most attacks the other can make with the next attack action they make on the same turn

    **Survive**
    If a Duo takes enough damage to be reduced to 0 hit points, the other must make a DC 10 constitution save. On a success it is restored to the hit points it had before the damage, but the other is still unconscious dying. On a failure, they are both unconscious and dying.

    If both twins stabilize, they separately meet the conditions to become conscious again

    If one twin stabilizes and the other dies, the dead one becomes separate from the living one until alive again

    **Synchronized**
    A Duo can share its space with its twin


    This is very confusing and potentially open to abuse. How can I clean it up?
    I take it this is for 5e, given the use of "bonus action" in the mechanics.

    First off, if they share hit points, how can you have one drop to 0 and not the other? Actually having them share hit points on the conceit that hp-are-not-meat is an interesting take on it, and probably one of the cleaner ways to handle one mind in two bodies. When one is reduced to 0 hp, both are, because they have one hit point pool between them. The one that took the hit makes the death saves. (If both took a hit while down, both make the death saves simultaneously.) If the dying body dies, then the other one starts making death saves due to psychic shock.

    Alright, let's try to codify this in 5e terms.

    Twins
    The Duo are identical twins, physically. Their attributes are identical (generate them once, and assign them to both equally). They are also indistinguishable from one another unless deliberate effort is made to mark them distinctly.

    Joined Fate
    The Duo have only one pool of hit points, as calcluated by their class and constitution score. When both are in the same area of effect, they take damage as a single creature, not two creatures. Otherwise, anything targeting either deals damage to both. Their armor classes are determined separately, but their saving throws are determined jointly. Any effect on one twin affects them both. When a Duo is reduced to 0 hit points by an effect which simultaneously hits both of them (e.g. being caught in the same fireball), both bodies must make individual death saves to stabilize, and either or both can die. When they are reduced to 0 hit points by an effect that hits only one, they both fall unconscious, but the one which took the fatal blow is the only one which must make saves (and the only one which needs to be stabilized). Should that body die, the other begins dying due to shock, and must make death saves.

    Joint Actions
    The Duo have more to keep track of than most races, though they usually manage just fine. In combat, both twins act on the same initiative. Both may move normally, but only one gets an action. The Duo may spend their bonus action to allow the other an action, but anything done with that action counts as being done with a bonus action, which is particularly relevant for spellcasting. The Duo also has only one reaction between both bodies. Should one take the Help action to aid the other, however, the Duo may choose to take a result of 10 (before bonuses) if that is higher than the resulting d20 roll.

    A Duo reduced to only one active body loses these benefits and abilities.

    Singular Mind
    A single mind occupying two bodies, a Duo is subject to any effect which impacts the mind of either body, and may save only once against it (and only need save once against it, if both are in the same AoE). The Duo is aware of what both bodies sense at all times, and is even capable of coherent multi-threaded conversation, focusing on one per body at a time.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Orc in the Playground
     
    stewstew5's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2016

    Default Re: Two-creature race balance

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    I take it this is for 5e, given the use of "bonus action" in the mechanics.

    First off, if they share hit points, how can you have one drop to 0 and not the other? Actually having them share hit points on the conceit that hp-are-not-meat is an interesting take on it, and probably one of the cleaner ways to handle one mind in two bodies. When one is reduced to 0 hp, both are, because they have one hit point pool between them. The one that took the hit makes the death saves. (If both took a hit while down, both make the death saves simultaneously.) If the dying body dies, then the other one starts making death saves due to psychic shock.

    Alright, let's try to codify this in 5e terms.

    Twins
    The Duo are identical twins, physically. Their attributes are identical (generate them once, and assign them to both equally). They are also indistinguishable from one another unless deliberate effort is made to mark them distinctly.

    Joined Fate
    The Duo have only one pool of hit points, as calcluated by their class and constitution score. When both are in the same area of effect, they take damage as a single creature, not two creatures. Otherwise, anything targeting either deals damage to both. Their armor classes are determined separately, but their saving throws are determined jointly. Any effect on one twin affects them both. When a Duo is reduced to 0 hit points by an effect which simultaneously hits both of them (e.g. being caught in the same fireball), both bodies must make individual death saves to stabilize, and either or both can die. When they are reduced to 0 hit points by an effect that hits only one, they both fall unconscious, but the one which took the fatal blow is the only one which must make saves (and the only one which needs to be stabilized). Should that body die, the other begins dying due to shock, and must make death saves.

    Joint Actions
    The Duo have more to keep track of than most races, though they usually manage just fine. In combat, both twins act on the same initiative. Both may move normally, but only one gets an action. The Duo may spend their bonus action to allow the other an action, but anything done with that action counts as being done with a bonus action, which is particularly relevant for spellcasting. The Duo also has only one reaction between both bodies. Should one take the Help action to aid the other, however, the Duo may choose to take a result of 10 (before bonuses) if that is higher than the resulting d20 roll.

    A Duo reduced to only one active body loses these benefits and abilities.

    Singular Mind
    A single mind occupying two bodies, a Duo is subject to any effect which impacts the mind of either body, and may save only once against it (and only need save once against it, if both are in the same AoE). The Duo is aware of what both bodies sense at all times, and is even capable of coherent multi-threaded conversation, focusing on one per body at a time.
    This is... incredible! Thank you so much, wording is by far the hardest part. I do think you misinterpreted the concept though, which is on me for not providing more context. They’re not so much 1 mind 2 bodies as they are 1.5 minds, they are distinct creature who are intrinsically linked on a mental and physical scale

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Segev's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location

    Default Re: Two-creature race balance

    Glad to help. As far as 1.5 minds... I admit I always like the one mind, two bodies thing better, so I am biased that way. For mechanics, however, given the precedent of familiars and the ranger's animal companion, I would alter the fluff of what I wrote just a little, but otherwise keep the mechanics the same. The alternative, trying to better capture two distinct "people" even if they half-share a mind, leads to action advantage in ways that are very hard to balance.

    In fact, in 3.5, I think it's best to treat it almost like a cohort, because you're essentially getting two characters out of it, and trying to impose limiting mechanics is just plain harder to keep simple enough to use than exploiting extant multi-character mechanics.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •