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  1. - Top - End - #421
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate 3...confirmed!

    What is actually, mechanically puzzling, as far as Helm goes, is that Anomen can change alignment to Chaotic Neutral and change personality to "I spit on order!" and...remain a priest of Helm.

    (Mechanically in BG2, of course, a priest of Helm is required to be Something Neutral, not Lawful Something--but aside from not making sense, that just means LG Anomen is the mechanical anomaly.)
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

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    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  2. - Top - End - #422
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate 3...confirmed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    What is actually, mechanically puzzling, as far as Helm goes, is that Anomen can change alignment to Chaotic Neutral and change personality to "I spit on order!" and...remain a priest of Helm.

    (Mechanically in BG2, of course, a priest of Helm is required to be Something Neutral, not Lawful Something--but aside from not making sense, that just means LG Anomen is the mechanical anomaly.)
    I'm going to take this as more evidence that Anomen is crap. Even his mechanics don't make sense! At least I'm willing to forgive Jaheira as she's calmed down from BG1, even if she's a little...Too intent on replacing Khalid.

    More on topic, as someone who has not played Divinity Original Sin, how would fans of the series expect the love interests to be?
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  3. - Top - End - #423
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate 3...confirmed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    I'm going to take this as more evidence that Anomen is crap. Even his mechanics don't make sense! At least I'm willing to forgive Jaheira as she's calmed down from BG1, even if she's a little...Too intent on replacing Khalid.

    More on topic, as someone who has not played Divinity Original Sin, how would fans of the series expect the love interests to be?
    At least in the second one, the romance was extremely quiet. There was one scene where you could pick a lover two thirds of the way through the game if they liked you enough (including, oddly, Fane the skeleton, as either the player or NPC) and then aside from a couple "I fully support you and everything you stand for" comments, it never really comes up again.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  4. - Top - End - #424
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate 3...confirmed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    At least in the second one, the romance was extremely quiet. There was one scene where you could pick a lover two thirds of the way through the game if they liked you enough (including, oddly, Fane the skeleton, as either the player or NPC) and then aside from a couple "I fully support you and everything you stand for" comments, it never really comes up again.
    So I'll be able to fulfill my dreams of romancing Papyrus?
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  5. - Top - End - #425
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate 3...confirmed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    So I'll be able to fulfill my dreams of romancing Papyrus?
    Fane is as much Papyrus as Viconia would be Toriel.

  6. - Top - End - #426
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate 3...confirmed!

    Apparently, they are considering doing some tweaking of the ranger class in BG3 (and possibly D&D in general).

  7. - Top - End - #427
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate 3...confirmed!

    They did say they were going to modify the rules as needed and I'm glad they're willing to do it rather than try to faithfully translate the rules. Rangers are in particular need of it, because not only is the class a mess in general but their main shtick - wilderness survival - is difficult to make work in a video game.
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  8. - Top - End - #428
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate 3...confirmed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    They did say they were going to modify the rules as needed and I'm glad they're willing to do it rather than try to faithfully translate the rules. Rangers are in particular need of it, because not only is the class a mess in general but their main shtick - wilderness survival - is difficult to make work in a video game.
    For me, "faithfully" adapting something is taking the essence of what made a work great, and try your best to adjust for its weaknesses.

    For example, they could keep the Champion subclass without problem. But the Ranger did suck. And.. I am not sure how they could adapt the Cleric's "I summon my deity"

  9. - Top - End - #429
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate 3...confirmed!

    Well, they're not wrong, Ranger is a hot mess, even the updated version really isn't that good, and its applicability in a video game setting is probably even worse unless you bake in the sorts of things that Rangers do (rolling to track or to survive in wilderness) which just seems more like 'character tax' to force the player to have a ranger hanging around just to deal with these things but is otherwise useless.
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  10. - Top - End - #430
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate 3...confirmed!

    For the general Anomen discussion (): while my original comment was obviously sarcastic, I do actually like Anomen's writing, in which it's a character one likes to hate. It's much more preferable to Bioware's usual Generic Soldier Dude characters, for example.

    Another example of a similar character is Durance from PoE1, in my opinion. You disagree with him, he irritates you, but he's pretty well-written (and well acted).
    Last edited by Cespenar; 2019-06-20 at 07:52 AM.

  11. - Top - End - #431
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate 3...confirmed!

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    Well, they're not wrong, Ranger is a hot mess, even the updated version really isn't that good, and its applicability in a video game setting is probably even worse unless you bake in the sorts of things that Rangers do (rolling to track or to survive in wilderness) which just seems more like 'character tax' to force the player to have a ranger hanging around just to deal with these things but is otherwise useless.
    That's kind of what happens when a class's main feature is a scaled-up skill proficiency.
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  12. - Top - End - #432
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate 3...confirmed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    At least in the second one, the romance was extremely quiet. There was one scene where you could pick a lover two thirds of the way through the game if they liked you enough (including, oddly, Fane the skeleton, as either the player or NPC) and then aside from a couple "I fully support you and everything you stand for" comments, it never really comes up again.
    I feel like that has more to do with the fact that the characters in that game have barely any personality and hardly interact with anything at all more than it does a willful decision to minimize the romance aspect.

  13. - Top - End - #433
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate 3...confirmed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cespenar View Post
    For the general Anomen discussion (): while my original comment was obviously sarcastic, I do actually like Anomen's writing, in which it's a character one likes to hate. It's much more preferable to Bioware's usual Generic Soldier Dude characters, for example.
    I'm still just baffled how they thought an arrogant, pompous, moronic jerk was going to appeal to women. I do agree, he is well written, but he's so well written to be unlikable, that I have to wonder what was going on in people's heads to make him a romance option.

    Also, his programming has an odd quirk that he can ask to 'spend a night' with the character in a graveyard. Good going there, hero.
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  14. - Top - End - #434
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    Daemon

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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate 3...confirmed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    I'm still just baffled how they thought an arrogant, pompous, moronic jerk was going to appeal to women.
    They appeal to women in reality too, just not usually nerd women who are smarter than that and look for emotional security.
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate 3...confirmed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    I'm still just baffled how they thought an arrogant, pompous, moronic jerk was going to appeal to women.
    Anomen is a project

  16. - Top - End - #436
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate 3...confirmed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr View Post
    Anomen is a project
    Rasaad is a project. Anomen is a house built out of literal crap. It's just better to burn it down and leave town before anyone can ask too many questions.
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  17. - Top - End - #437
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate 3...confirmed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    Anomen is a project. Rasaad is a house built out of literal crap.
    Fixed that for you. Anomen is actually a competent melee character at all stages of the game and does grow as a person and partner, compared to Rasaad who ranges from "awful" to "barely passable" and who seems too woefully occupied with his loaded backstory catching up to him to actually meaningfully grow. Both characters have flaws in their personalities, but

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    Anomen can at least give you a happy marriage without getting you both killed by random mooks. If there's any fitting epitaph to the Monk class in BG2 is that Rasaad is an epic Monk who took part in near-cosmic events and yet can't win a fight with a former Bhaalspawn at his side.


    That's right, Rasaad made me appreciate Anomen. I recommend Dorn for a prospective lover instead; I hear once you go half-orc, you're gonna need a wheelchair. Of course, Beamdog can't give us what we want and let us smash the Baeloth. My fist shakes angrily. With my usual panache, of course.
    Last edited by Winthur; 2019-06-20 at 06:06 PM.
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  18. - Top - End - #438
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate 3...confirmed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Winthur View Post
    Fixed that for you.
    I'd rather carry Rasaad useless butt over having to hear Anomen...ONE. MORE. TIME.

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    And yeah, rather die with bald and handsome rather then live with the pompous jerk. Sort of Dorn eating a puppy repeatedly, I don't think ANYTHING could make me appreciate Anomen at all.
    Last edited by Honest Tiefling; 2019-06-20 at 06:15 PM.
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  19. - Top - End - #439
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    Mark Hall's Avatar

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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate 3...confirmed!

    I'm disappointed that my half-elf lady couldn't get friendly with Aerie.
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  20. - Top - End - #440
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate 3...confirmed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    I'd rather carry Rasaad useless butt over having to hear Anomen...ONE. MORE. TIME.
    With NPC mods having gotten better (we came a long way since stuff like Chloe, although for every Isra or Fade there's a Saerileth or Shandra, I guess) and while figuring that EE stuff can be considered a bit of a fanfic, I suggest you give someone like Gavin or BG2-Xan a try for your heart.

    My main issue with Rasaad is that as a literal demigod I find it a hard bargain to try and fall in love with someone so bad.
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  21. - Top - End - #441
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate 3...confirmed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Winthur View Post
    With NPC mods having gotten better (we came a long way since stuff like Chloe, although for every Isra or Fade there's a Saerileth or Shandra, I guess) and while figuring that EE stuff can be considered a bit of a fanfic, I suggest you give someone like Gavin or BG2-Xan a try for your heart.
    I'll...Consider Gavin, if you can sell him (I assume it's a him), but I hated Xan in the first game, so I'd probably end up killing him.

    And it's not MY fault my lady Bhaalspawn was willing to pursue a romance with someone far less powerful than her.
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  22. - Top - End - #442
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate 3...confirmed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    I'll...Consider Gavin, if you can sell him
    Neutral Good Priest of Lathander. Bit of a humble virtuous good boy kinda guy with a strong sense of duty and not much of an adventuring bone until he gets tossed into the fray. Won't romance assassins, bounty hunters and necromancers because of this. His brothers from an alternate universe both got Law degrees.

    I'm not usually a fan of NPC mods and don't fancy installing them, so most of what I'd recommend is stuff that generally stays in its own lane, both power- and personality-wise. That generally means no overpowered (or woefully underpowered) statlines and a rather healthy limit to hogging the player's time with interactions. I remember Kelsey (another male NPC romancable by female characters) being one of the earliest attempts at treading these waters.

    Though, of course, I figure it's actually easier to find a bisexual / lesbian NPC companion with mods nowadays than it is to find a male companion. Incidentally, aforementioned Fade (tiefling shadow thief) and Isra (female paladin of Sune) both fit the bill, and are rather decently written, too.

    Incidentally, I just realized that all of these fem-romancable NPCs are actually written by women, so apparently the woeful shortchanging female players have experienced didn't go unnoticed.
    Last edited by Winthur; 2019-06-20 at 07:09 PM.
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  23. - Top - End - #443
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate 3...confirmed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Winthur View Post
    Incidentally, I just realized that all of these fem-romancable NPCs are actually written by women, so apparently the woeful shortchanging female players have experienced didn't go unnoticed.
    Well, then Kaiden was a romance option...And from what little of Mass Effect I've played, I am so not surprised that people wanted to bang bird man over him. Bleh.

    Personally, I don't mind having a character with different options, and you DID say tiefling...
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  24. - Top - End - #444
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate 3...confirmed!

    Having played through the game many times, Anomen is probably my favorite of the 4 NPC romance options. He actually grows and develops from an arrogant brat to a disciplined and confident man who has faced inner darkness, overcome it, and learned from his mistakes. Jaheira has angst and the Harpers, Aerie just wants comfort (except when she doesn't), and Viconia is the only other one who has much opportunity to learn and grow and change.

    For me, the characters who grow up or change are always the most interesting, like Londo and G'Kar in Babylon 5.


    Haer'Dalis can just go soak his entropic head in a bucket. He's annoying and too squishy.
    Last edited by J-H; 2019-06-20 at 07:29 PM.

  25. - Top - End - #445
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate 3...confirmed!

    Quote Originally Posted by J-H View Post
    He's annoying and too squishy.
    Actually a candidate for one of the best tanks in the game due to the specifics of how tanking ends up working out in the BG Saga. He does kinda suck when he's at 30~ HP when you first join him, I suppose.

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    Plate classes have a hard time getting either Armor Class or percentage damage reduction to high values and have to itemize for it whereas Haer'dalis easily reaches the hard cap on AC and simply turns on a couple of spells that make him immune to damage for a few turns when needed. On Insane difficulty in particular, pure Fighters end up going splat without Hardiness, Defender of Easthaven, and/or massive lifesteal.
    Last edited by Winthur; 2019-06-20 at 07:40 PM.
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  26. - Top - End - #446
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    Daemon

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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate 3...confirmed!

    While we're talking about the most handsome devils, anyone else notice that Edwin gets used more as a forum avatar on the internet than any other BG character?

    There's something about Edwin.

    Lots of people know it and want that mug as their personal profile representation.

    An Edwin romance should have been in the game! Instead he only flirts with Viconia.
    Last edited by Kyutaru; 2019-06-20 at 11:22 PM.
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  27. - Top - End - #447
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate 3...confirmed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyutaru View Post
    While we're talking about the most handsome devils, anyone else notice that Edwin gets used more as a forum avatar on the internet than any other BG character?

    There's something about Edwin.
    Indeed there is.
    Of all the wizard-y portraits of BG1, he's the only one that looks cool. So if you made a Wizard, chances are that you picked his portrait.
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  28. - Top - End - #448
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate 3...confirmed!

    The one thing that particularly sticks out (negatively) to me about the added romance options in the BG Enhanced Editions is this: not only are all of the added same-sex options Evil-aligned, all of the added Evil-aligned characters are same-sex romance options, which I feel brings it even further into the 'unfortunate implications' territory. (Neera in particular makes me ask "why did they think we needed another exclusive M/F romance option when that's the only combination we had several of in the original version?")

  29. - Top - End - #449
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate 3...confirmed!

    Quote Originally Posted by SerTabris View Post
    The one thing that particularly sticks out (negatively) to me about the added romance options in the BG Enhanced Editions is this: not only are all of the added same-sex options Evil-aligned, all of the added Evil-aligned characters are same-sex romance options, which I feel brings it even further into the 'unfortunate implications' territory.
    I get what you're saying, but just to clarify, Dorn is bisexual (or, to expand the notion further, he seems to be utterly uninhibited in his "conquests"). I'm also not sure about the implications that both Evil NPCs are coded as struggling with racial prejudice (or at least Dorn is), but that's a wee bit too far into politics talk and likely a stretch.

    I'm going to also guess that they wanted to avoid the idea that everyone is bi, for whatever reason, most likely because the writing might make it sound that the NPCs are all just magically playersexual.

    Spoiler: spoileriffic rambling
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    A thing that annoys me is that every single one of the new romance interests is immune to the Bodhi kidnapping. Even if the kidnapping scene could be interpretted as being too much of a damsel moment, it still really sticks out when you compare it to vanilla behavior. The way esp. Dorn's kidnapping fails reads as a playground-style "nuh-uh, my laser is 2x BIGGER!" argument, and also sort of helps paint Bodhi as incompetent. And also further cements Rasaad as being unable to do anything outside of a cutscene.
    Last edited by Winthur; 2019-06-21 at 02:04 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
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  30. - Top - End - #450
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate 3...confirmed!

    Eh, my general stance on RPG romances is that it leaves one way more content when one sees it as bonus (added) material, rather than a requisite.

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