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  1. - Top - End - #1201
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidSh View Post
    The really big manuals are written for repairmen, whether medical professionals or aviation technicians. The manual for a camera might not be huge, but I'm sure the manual for a Boeing 737 is.
    This is true, since there is a difference between everyday use and repair work. For my old car I had a book (came with the car) detailing all the mechanical, hydraulic and electrical systems along with disassemble and troubleshooting procedures. It had its weight but was quite handy even if I only ever needed some specific parts thereof. All the information about regular use could be fit on just a few pages.
    In a war it doesn't matter who's right, only who's left.

  2. - Top - End - #1202
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Whoopsie-doodle! You were caught in the commission of a crime, or you were late with your monthly subscription to Philomena. Oopsie-Guard(tm) will now play this soothing music as you sit quietly and wait for Philomena to repossess its property. Remember, crimes include slandering Philomena! We all love Philomena.

    Think that's dystopian? It's already in the real world on some rental cars and cell phones.

    Bad news for Roko: her manual is a PDF of a poorly-scanned fax copy of a paper manual. How good is her OCR?
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  3. - Top - End - #1203
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    I mean, I may be reading way too deep into this, but... why should we cheer for May here?

    Yes, she's an ex-convict and(supposedly, I don't remember how things went down anymore) paid her debts to society. And, without going too much into politics(since forum rules and since I'm not anything close to expert), I support ex-convicts getting help in getting their life sorted out when they get out of jail.

    But seriously... after today comic... is she snarking? Because I honestly don't know if that's the case and I kinda wouldn't put it past her. Which basically means Roko is gearing to help a dangerous sociopath(best case scenario), or maybe even a psychopath.

    I mean... this may be the first time in the entire history of the comic that I'm asking some questions of myself. Is the underdog really worth cheering for? By the extension, is "the system" really so bad here, or just de facto bad, because you need an antagonist and the story of and underdog fighting an evil system is a time tested trope? Is Roko doing this to make the system better or just to make herself feel better?

    And if I'm being ultra cynical here... does Jeph know that himself?
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  4. - Top - End - #1204
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    You think that May is capable of murder?

    Yes, she's joking. The trope of a woman marrying a rich dude shortly before he meets a 'tragic and untimely accident' is about as old as the concept of women having a choice in who they marry.

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  5. - Top - End - #1205
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordokai View Post
    I mean, I may be reading way too deep into this, but... why should we cheer for May here?

    Yes, she's an ex-convict and(supposedly, I don't remember how things went down anymore) paid her debts to society. And, without going too much into politics(since forum rules and since I'm not anything close to expert), I support ex-convicts getting help in getting their life sorted out when they get out of jail.

    But seriously... after today comic... is she snarking? Because I honestly don't know if that's the case and I kinda wouldn't put it past her. Which basically means Roko is gearing to help a dangerous sociopath(best case scenario), or maybe even a psychopath.

    I mean... this may be the first time in the entire history of the comic that I'm asking some questions of myself. Is the underdog really worth cheering for? By the extension, is "the system" really so bad here, or just de facto bad, because you need an antagonist and the story of and underdog fighting an evil system is a time tested trope? Is Roko doing this to make the system better or just to make herself feel better?

    And if I'm being ultra cynical here... does Jeph know that himself?
    *facepalms*

    It's been clear since the first story arc she appeared in that May is capable of empathy, so she's not sociopathic or psychopathic. And...if you know that you don't actually remember key parts of a story, it's kind of a bad idea to decide that if there's a problem with your argument about that story, it's that you're reading too deeply.

    Also, you're suggesting that someone can deserve to be stuck in a disintegrating body, for making a joke.

    Also also, "the system" stuck May in a disintegrating body, and explicitly gives similarly awful bodies to every ex-con AI who needs a body. You don't need to have read anything before the latest eight strips to have read that. And you're wondering if it's actually bad. This is like staring at third-degree burns and saying, "Is fire actually dangerous, or is it just a trope to consider fire dangerous? Is that firefighter really trying to save lives or just trying to grandstand?"

    And even if she wasn't obviously making a joke, a society that punished people with anything more extreme than potential disapproval from other citizens for saying "I'd murder two villainous stock characters rather than dealing with them nonviolently if I was in a story that featured a robber baron with a meathead son (compared to Gaston in the bottom text)"...well, to quote bottom text from another recent strip, that got dystopian fast.

  6. - Top - End - #1206
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    "...I'm sure I can find a link between [chassis quality] and recidivism."

    Assuming the outcome before doing the research doesn't sound like the best way to begin a good-faith argument, especially since you just tried that and got your ass metaphorically handed to you by some obnoxious desk-jockey at the AI-DMV-equivalent.

    Especially especially since 100% of the ex-convicts you know (ie; one person, May) haven't so much as jay-walked since they were paroled.

    I'm not saying that Roko shouldn't be trying to make a better life for ex-cons, I absolutely endorse that, but for God's sake learn from your mistakes before making assumptions, will you?!
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  7. - Top - End - #1207
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    "...I'm sure I can find a link between [chassis quality] and recidivism."

    Assuming the outcome before doing the research doesn't sound like the best way to begin a good-faith argument, especially since you just tried that and got your ass metaphorically handed to you by some obnoxious desk-jockey at the AI-DMV-equivalent.

    Especially especially since 100% of the ex-convicts you know (ie; one person, May) haven't so much as jay-walked since they were paroled.

    I'm not saying that Roko shouldn't be trying to make a better life for ex-cons, I absolutely endorse that, but for God's sake learn from your mistakes before making assumptions, will you?!
    She is not making an argument yet - she is picking the most plausible angle she can think of to research before taking any further action. The "I'm sure..." phrase is jut her confidence that there should be a link. As long as Roko does research first and formulates statements to the authority second she did learn her lesson.
    In a war it doesn't matter who's right, only who's left.

  8. - Top - End - #1208
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Hm, fair enough. I was perhaps slightly too quick to assume that Roko "just knows it" because she's being Jeph's mouthpiece. It's happened before, but not really often enough that I should assume it.

    Still, I stand by my question: Why is she sure? She knows two AIs with any sort of criminal past; Bubbles, who was never charged or convicted and is a model citizen, and May who has the crappiest chassis on two legs (usually) and has actively avoided 99% of anything resembling sketchy because she DOESN'T want to reoffend. I doubt that Roko will complete her research and find out that AIs are significantly LESS prone to repeat offending, so this is just show-don't-tell stuff.
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  9. - Top - End - #1209
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    Hm, fair enough. I was perhaps slightly too quick to assume that Roko "just knows it" because she's being Jeph's mouthpiece. It's happened before, but not really often enough that I should assume it.

    Still, I stand by my question: Why is she sure? She knows two AIs with any sort of criminal past; Bubbles, who was never charged or convicted and is a model citizen, and May who has the crappiest chassis on two legs (usually) and has actively avoided 99% of anything resembling sketchy because she DOESN'T want to reoffend. I doubt that Roko will complete her research and find out that AIs are significantly LESS prone to repeat offending, so this is just show-don't-tell stuff.
    Roko worked in the police before. She should have some more broad personal experience, which might obviously skew her opinions since she would not deal with upstanding citizens, but she might also know more about actual recidivism statistics.
    In a war it doesn't matter who's right, only who's left.

  10. - Top - End - #1210
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    I feel like AIs and especially embodied AIs aren't around long enough yet, that too many of them have even served their time in the first place and got released yet, and even if they did they might not yet be desperate enough to fall back into crime. They're probably in the "lets not do anything sketchy" mode that May is in, but as their bodies keep failing, their money runs dry, they can't pay for maintenance anymore, they might become more desperate, and do crime again. And then they have to be caught and convicted in sufficiently great number to be even statistically relevant.

    One thing I find weird though. It was said as part of her parole May is forbidden from doing any "digital work". Which makes sense. But then it was said she had asked for a body, and by default she'd have been a server AI. What kind of work would she have been doing there, if not digital work?

  11. - Top - End - #1211
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    A weird turn of phrase, perhaps? By "digital" she could have been paraphrasing anything like finance, data entry, software engineering, etc?
    That would leave stuff like customer service (just being a disembodied voice on Skype is basically working in a call centre) or even "child care" - Clinton once mentioned that baby AIs grow up in creches overseen by Human and AI nurses while they establish a personality. Her personality might make her unsuitable for those roles, but her conviction might not.

    Or just unemployed. Maybe there's an server-based-AI equivalent to standing on a street corner, playing Wonderwall on a 2-stringed guitar for spare change?
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Im calling it now. Roko does her research, finds that the may style setups lead to a certain level of recidivism, then marches to the meeting in triumph. The board then pulls out the figures showing its actually about the same as the other two main variants of no ai body at all and have their own to re inhabit. Basically, roko kinda sucks at anything but moral outrage.
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  13. - Top - End - #1213
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Yeah, I'm calling it: That is not going to happen.

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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    I'm with Kish on this one. Even with other considerations aside, Jeph Jaques isn't going to write a story about how The System is basically okay and people just need to learn how to live within it properly.
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    I'm with Kish on this one. Even with other considerations aside, Jeph Jaques isn't going to write a story about how The System is basically okay and people just need to learn how to live within it properly.
    Its not about the system being fine and may having to deal with it, its about roko not taking the time to consider the angles before running off half cocked on her crusade. You arent going to win a debate unless you have several good arguments and facts and are ready to counter the arguments and facts the other side has. She has already hit that brick wall once and learned nothing. She went into that first meeting with nothing but outrage that mays body was falling apart and apparently did no research into the nuts and bolts of the situation so when she talked to the drone she had nothing to work with. Now she is going to move up the ladder with a single argument and no real concept of the counters to it or what they may say to deny her again. That is NOT a recipe for success outside of a badly written fanfic.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Its not about the system being fine and may having to deal with it, its about roko not taking the time to consider the angles before running off half cocked on her crusade. You arent going to win a debate unless you have several good arguments and facts and are ready to counter the arguments and facts the other side has. She has already hit that brick wall once and learned nothing. She went into that first meeting with nothing but outrage that mays body was falling apart and apparently did no research into the nuts and bolts of the situation so when she talked to the drone she had nothing to work with. Now she is going to move up the ladder with a single argument and no real concept of the counters to it or what they may say to deny her again. That is NOT a recipe for success outside of a badly written fanfic.
    Sadly, we live in an age when good arguments and facts also don't mean much in a lot of debates. Beyond things we can't talk about here, I've seen plenty of situations where even having all the facts on your side doesn't change anything, because the person who gets to make the decision wants to make a different decision.
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    Sadly, we live in an age when good arguments and facts also don't mean much in a lot of debates. Beyond things we can't talk about here, I've seen plenty of situations where even having all the facts on your side doesn't change anything, because the person who gets to make the decision wants to make a different decision.
    Agreed, and I wasnt using debate as a direct description of what will happen, more as an analogy of the situation. She needs to come up with the right combination of facts, arguments and pressure to get what she is after. Lets say you are right, roko shows up with a laundry list of good true facts that show exactly why may needs and deserves a better body from them specifically. That might not be enough, because as you say, the person making the decision may not care about that, they want their own decision to stand anyways. At that point you need to be prepared to point out the ramifications of this information going public and what that would do to this group of government workers personally. After all, a headline like, "Specific Government Body Knows They are Condemning ExCons to Be Repeat Offenders. They Dont Care" could cause them all sorts of interesting problems. Or any of a dozen other options that would see them specifically pay a price for acting like this which brings self interest into the fray instead of just "Doing The Right Thing" tm

    On rereading the last comic of her planning this out she might be doing better at that. She is approaching it from a couple angles so I was wrong in my initial description, I thought she left it at "Lets look at recidivism rates" and called it a day, instead she is looking at that, looking at the comparison to HUMAN post prison support, which might help draw a discrimination angle she can work with, and is looking into hard numbers for repairing old and busted bodies so she knows what sort of price tag this comes with along with the other options. So its possible she can aim for "Newer better bodies" but still fall back on "We pay for repair work to some extent of your old and busted loaner"
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  18. - Top - End - #1218
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    On a different note, who the hell puts their cellphone on their shirt pocket? It's her groin that should be a wireless charging point.
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Felius View Post
    On a different note, who the hell puts their cellphone on their shirt pocket? It's her groin that should be a wireless charging point.
    If I had a wireless recharge port behind it I would. I'm more concerned about what the other side is for, what with the redacted marking and all.

    At least the manual is pretty small. That should give her enough to work with to prevent more episodes.
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Felius View Post
    On a different note, who the hell puts their cellphone on their shirt pocket? It's her groin that should be a wireless charging point.
    I'm sure there's a well-trodden punchline about women's pants and skirts lacking suitable pockets that could be made, so they use inside-jacket pockets instead. Or possibly the pocket next to her butt - maybe that's the upgrade that what's-her-face, Dora and Tai's new friend, asked for?
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Huh. personalizing your body as a way of helping to identify it as yours. That's... surprisingly straightforward, yet logical.
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Huh. personalizing your body as a way of helping to identify it as yours. That's... surprisingly straightforward, yet logical.
    Interestingly, I believe this is often the exact reason cited by people with various forms of dysmorphia for getting tattoos/piercings/brightly-dyed hair.

    (I think I've heard this primarily from trans and genderqueer people, but also those recovering from certain eating disorders.)
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Remember that standoff in your apartment three weeks back, Melon?

    Well, Roko was the real Melon all along!!

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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    The more I see of Roko getting to grips with her new body, the more curious I am about how she got her old one.

    Apparently she'd had it for a long time, but it had some fairly unusual features that have so far only been shown to belong to her newer, top-of-the-line chassis - presumably, her original body would have been pretty exclusive too, if it contained features 2+ years ago that are still considered to be uncommon/luxury add-ons today.

    Can all AIs change colours on a whim? Yay's commentary suggests that it was something associated with Roko's 'brand' in particular, and we haven't seen anyone else do it so far. Is there an AI equivalent to a trust fund kid? Did she have another, lower quality chassis when she was 'born' and that's why she's so intent on helping May to upgrade like she did?

    And not just because how Roko got out of a server and straight into a nice new body with unique features might be directly relevant ro May; I really want to know more about how AIs get 'sorted' like they are.
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    The more I see of Roko getting to grips with her new body, the more curious I am about how she got her old one.

    Apparently she'd had it for a long time, but it had some fairly unusual features that have so far only been shown to belong to her newer, top-of-the-line chassis - presumably, her original body would have been pretty exclusive too, if it contained features 2+ years ago that are still considered to be uncommon/luxury add-ons today.

    Can all AIs change colours on a whim? Yay's commentary suggests that it was something associated with Roko's 'brand' in particular, and we haven't seen anyone else do it so far. Is there an AI equivalent to a trust fund kid? Did she have another, lower quality chassis when she was 'born' and that's why she's so intent on helping May to upgrade like she did?

    And not just because how Roko got out of a server and straight into a nice new body with unique features might be directly relevant ro May; I really want to know more about how AIs get 'sorted' like they are.
    We actually have seen Momo do it. Not in the same manner, but her hair would change color when her... I think it was her bellybutton? was pressed.
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    It may be that most dont do it because they dont feel the need to change their coloring on a regular basis. They just pick the setting they like and thats that. We dont actually hang out with many ais long term that might be into that sort of thing. *EDIT* Plus I doubt she is the only ai to not read the manual. I know ive barely skimmed my cars owner manual enough to learn how to set the clock and thats about it.
    Last edited by Traab; 2020-01-23 at 02:31 PM.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  27. - Top - End - #1227
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Cikomyr's Avatar

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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    I like Spookybot. She's a fun addition to the cast, and she provides good banter with Roko.

    Plus, the "quasi omnipotent roomate/friend" is not exactly a new trope.

  28. - Top - End - #1228
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Max_Killjoy's Avatar

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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    I wish updates like today's came with note at the top.

    If there's anything that will make me stop reading Jeph's work, it's not the politics or the kneejerk anger or whatever, it's the random inclusion of this sort of "humor" in the strip.
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

    Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.

    The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.

    The Worldbuilding Forum -- where realities are born.

  29. - Top - End - #1229
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Chimera

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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    I mean, yeah, tonal whiplash. However, the guy with the Butts-obsession doing poop humor is probably more on-brand than the political stuff.

  30. - Top - End - #1230
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    thanks to youtube delivering a George Carlin video on ‚soft language‘ just two days ago I know what ‚bathroom tissue‘ really is...
    * my emphasis

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