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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Radar View Post
    Depending on the construction details.

    For humans, keeping a constant temperature is important due to internal chemistry of our organisms, so a safe range is fairly narrow, but we have an internal thermostat and a solid heat capacity, since we are mostly water. Droping below the freezing point of water is an additional structural disaster, but things can go bad way before that for prolonged exposure to cold.

    For robotic bodies the limitations would be mechanical. We know for sure that at least the skin on the face is elastic and that for humanoid bodies there are some muscle equivalents instead of simple hydraulic or electric servomotors. This means that the materials used could have a risk of becoming brittle in low temperatures or becoming plastic (as in plastic deformation) in too high ones. Also internal bateries could not like being too cold depending on the technology - chemical ones will surely have increased internal resistance in low temperatures.

    The most important differenece is, that warm clothing would not work for robots anyway, since they do not have such a strong internal heat source as we do. Since they simply have internal electric batteries, the efficiency of using that energy is pretty high, so comparably little heat is generated. At the same time, trying to use electricity to heat up the body would most likely use it up too fast.
    Considering how often we have watched the AIs "overheat" as a blush, to the point of spewing steam, it seems that these bodies can produce extra heat on demand, allowing them to potentially regulate their temperature far more effectively than we can.
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    It also would seem that the waste heat is significant during normal operation.

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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Cizak View Post
    It's rather outlandish and preposterous, but I might be able to present an idea that could make it just a little more fathomable, if only in the most abstract sense:

    Those women have different taste than you.
    Having spoken to a few women on the matter, the answer is because by and large nothing else gets made these days unless they want to go shopping for men's clothes, which themselves frequently don't fit well. Their options for pants tend to range from "uncomfortable" to "who even thought this was a good idea?"
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  4. - Top - End - #154
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Considering how often we have watched the AIs "overheat" as a blush, to the point of spewing steam, it seems that these bodies can produce extra heat on demand, allowing them to potentially regulate their temperature far more effectively than we can.
    While this could have been just a fallout of including emoji in everything whatsoever...

    Quote Originally Posted by VoxRationis View Post
    It also would seem that the waste heat is significant during normal operation.
    This does confim the excessive heat production, which I find quite baffling. What is all the electricity used for? Still, it does mean that the warm winter clothing would work for robots as well.
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Radar View Post
    This does confim the excessive heat production, which I find quite baffling. What is all the electricity used for? Still, it does mean that the warm winter clothing would work for robots as well.
    Have you ever touched your PC's CPU? If not, go ahead, I'll wait.

    And that's just running a browser. Now run a full fledged AI on it and try again.

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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Morquard View Post
    Have you ever touched your PC's CPU? If not, go ahead, I'll wait.

    And that's just running a browser. Now run a full fledged AI on it and try again.
    Careful not to stick your finger in the fan.

    (Used to do PC repair, had someone bump into me trying to look over my shoulder while I was moving wires away from a running computer's heat sink, and it jarred my finger right into the 5000-some RPM fan blades.)
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  7. - Top - End - #157
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Morquard View Post
    Have you ever touched your PC's CPU? If not, go ahead, I'll wait.

    And that's just running a browser. Now run a full fledged AI on it and try again.
    And that's in an immensly small volume, hence the high temperature. If we go by power usage of currently available processors then yes, you end up with comparable or higher estimated skin temperature for a humanoid AI chassis (in ideal circumstances, where no thermoregulation is needed, human body generates about 160 W of heat most of which is dissipated by radiation). However, we know fully well, that an AI can fit in a much smaller body (Pintsize, old Winslow's and Momo's chassis). We have no reason to assume that thinking capacity is different between big and small bodies, yet the small bodies were not overheating as would be expected, if heat generation was a necessary byproduct of running the electronic brain. The small bodies did not have any dedicated radiators or active venting mechanisms, so we have to conclude that the AI core is generating far less heat then currently used personal computers.
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  8. - Top - End - #158
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by John Cribati View Post
    I was more speaking in response to BRC's implication that the state shouldn't be spending money on a convicted felon, as though she isn't a citizen anymore.
    I didn't say anything about they "Shouldn't be", I said it would be difficult to convince them to do so.


    But, okay, let's break this down.

    Question 1: Why did the state give May a body?

    May was a prisoner in Robot Jail. As far as we know, AI's seem to have three potential states of being.
    1) They live on a server somewhere, managing nuclear reactors or doing high-frequency trading (This is what May did previously)
    2) They inhabit some sort of highly specialized body (Such as Jeremy the sentient welding arm, or the talking toaster from when Momo was buying her new chassis)
    3) They inhabit an all-purpose "Humanoid" Chassis, whether roughly human sized, or the smaller AnthroPC sized ones. In this third case, they're basically just humans from the perspective of how they participate in society.


    So, in order to Release May from Robot Jail, they need somewhere to put her. Options 1 and 2 are both role-focused tasks, so unless she already had a job lined up (Which she didn't), the only thing to do is pick Option #3, put her in a body, and send her out on the street like they would a human parolee. So, in order to effectively Parole May, the state MUST provide her with a body. This isn't because she is "Owed" anything in a legal sense, but because anything less would be a violation of her legal rights. If they, say, loaded her onto a hard-drive and left it outside the prison gates, she would not be "Released" in any real sense.

    The closest real-world human equivalent would be the state "Releasing you from Prison" by flying you out to a remote island, stranding you there without any means of calling for help, and claiming they've done their jobs since you're not in jail anymore.


    This isn't touching on the moral question of what the state SHOULD be doing for May. This is merely a question of what they MUST do to respect her rights as a citizen.

    So, question 2) Is it the State's responsibility to fix May's chassis.
    We don't know the specifics of the in-universe legal statutes that govern this sort of thing (The statutes that say "You can't just leave a hard-drive outside the gates"). But I guess the root would be "Did the state violate May's rights by providing her with a defective chassis".

    I would argue yes, yes they did. The poor quality of her chassis is causing severe issues with her ability to function in society. They owe her a decently functional chassis for the same reasons they owe her one in the first place.

    Now, the challenge is convincing the bureaucracy that May is enduring Undue Hardship due to her government-provided cheapo-chassis.
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  9. - Top - End - #159
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Radar View Post
    And that's in an immensly small volume, hence the high temperature. If we go by power usage of currently available processors then yes, you end up with comparable or higher estimated skin temperature for a humanoid AI chassis (in ideal circumstances, where no thermoregulation is needed, human body generates about 160 W of heat most of which is dissipated by radiation). However, we know fully well, that an AI can fit in a much smaller body (Pintsize, old Winslow's and Momo's chassis). We have no reason to assume that thinking capacity is different between big and small bodies, yet the small bodies were not overheating as would be expected, if heat generation was a necessary byproduct of running the electronic brain. The small bodies did not have any dedicated radiators or active venting mechanisms, so we have to conclude that the AI core is generating far less heat then currently used personal computers.
    Those are good points. Yes I don't know then, except "Likely Jeph didn't think this through".

  10. - Top - End - #160
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Morquard View Post
    Those are good points. Yes I don't know then, except "Likely Jeph didn't think this through".
    I think this can be applied to most QC plot points these days that raise issues.
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Radar View Post
    This does confim the excessive heat production, which I find quite baffling. What is all the electricity used for?
    I don't get the question. The electricity is used to operate the computer. In the end all the electricity is waste heat. Energy is never consumed. It all goes to heat in the end.
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  12. - Top - End - #162
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Lamech View Post
    I don't get the question. The electricity is used to operate the computer. In the end all the electricity is waste heat. Energy is never consumed. It all goes to heat in the end.
    Well, some goes to the monitor, or a few LEDs, the speakers, running the hard drive and fans... And probably some things I forget right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    Careful not to stick your finger in the fan.

    (Used to do PC repair, had someone bump into me trying to look over my shoulder while I was moving wires away from a running computer's heat sink, and it jarred my finger right into the 5000-some RPM fan blades.)
    Huh, when I stuck my finger in my running fan it just caused the PC to crash from sudden overheating. But we're talking about a rather cheap one.

    Also, that's what you get for intimidating people, Roko.
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Lamech View Post
    I don't get the question. The electricity is used to operate the computer. In the end all the electricity is waste heat. Energy is never consumed. It all goes to heat in the end.
    Yes and I was wondering about the ammount of electrical power used - see my later post for details.
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Wow, has Roko done anything off-screen to Beeps that we didn't see? Cause "terrifying force of malevolence" is not really how i'd describe her during their past interactions.

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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Morquard View Post
    Wow, has Roko done anything off-screen to Beeps that we didn't see? Cause "terrifying force of malevolence" is not really how i'd describe her during their past interactions.
    I think Beeps is reacting to last comic, where Roko started giving her orders. She looked more than a little terrified in the final panel.

    We know Beeps hates confrontations, and Roko's order was for Beeps to phone a store with an unreasonable demand. (Which was again uncool on Roko's part. If you phone a business saying "I don't care if you're booked up; your tech has to see us today. In fact, we're already on our way over," their correct response would be unprintable here. More and more, I'm glad Roko is no longer a cop.) Beeps doesn't like to do that kind of thing, so she freaked out a bit, and in turn freaked out the store clerk.
    Last edited by mucat; 2019-06-20 at 09:04 AM. Reason: run-on sentence

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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by mucat View Post
    I think Beeps is reacting to last comic, where Roko started giving her orders. She looked more than a little terrified in the final panel.

    We know Beeps hates confrontations, and Roko's order was for Beeps to phone a store with an unreasonable demand. (Which was again uncool on Roko's part. If you phone a business saying "I don't care if you're booked up; your tech has to see us today. In fact, we're already on our way over," their correct response would be unprintable here. More and more, I'm glad Roko is no longer a cop.) Beeps doesn't like to do that kind of thing, so she freaked out a bit, and in turn freaked out the store clerk.
    It is certainly pretty unkind for Roko to tell her (rather incompetent) coworker to essentially 'get it done/make it work' while she heads out. That's placing someone into an extremely uncomfortable position (no way was Beeps okay placing that phone call). You're not wrong that a store would not react well to this scenario, but I think this kind of behavior works in scripted shows and the like a lot more than it would in real life. And, at least in QC today, it actually did work. So my impression is that Jeph either 1) is just leaning in to unrealistic sitcom tropes, or maybe 2) doesn't even know that this isn't how the world works. OTOH, I have to believe that Jeph is deliberately telegraphing pretty hardly that Roko is going well more manic than she needs to be/going off half-cocked.

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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    I, meanwhile, think "Beepatrice is utterly incapable of doing her job under normal circumstances and finds someone pushing her to actually do so to be a terrifying force of malevolence" is at least part of the intended takeaway here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  18. - Top - End - #168
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    I, meanwhile, think "Beepatrice is utterly incapable of doing her job under normal circumstances and finds someone pushing her to actually do so to be a terrifying force of malevolence" is at least part of the intended takeaway here.
    That was more of the takeaway I had as well.
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    I, meanwhile, think "Beepatrice is utterly incapable of doing her job under normal circumstances and finds someone pushing her to actually do so to be a terrifying force of malevolence" is at least part of the intended takeaway here.
    While that was part of my takeaway as well, theres basically no part of this where Roko has been acting appropriately. For all her purported fear of cops being dirty and falling prey to temptation, she herself is being pretty hypocritical here, circumventing procedures and outright breaking the law to get May out of work.
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    The thing is, we have never seen Beep do this before, or how she normally handles things. Yes, she seems rather hesitant but also Roko is pushing way too hard, expecting a business that has nothing to do with the problem to make time for her as if it's an emergency, which it clearly is not. That's at best impolite.
    I don't know where this is going.. It might be just a joke, it might lead to her realizing she's overreacting because of her own problems or... The police thing. Which is a bad can of worms.
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    The "comically inept" charity (as in Beepatrice, etc) and robo-parole system both seem to NEED an aggressive "pushing too hard" kick in the pants.

    I'm starting to get the sense that for every Roko or Bubbles who is living a serious and real life, there are a lot of AIs out there who are children playing at adult roles, just mimicking the things they see their "older siblings" the humans doing -- Melon, Beepatrice, etc.
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Kato View Post
    The thing is, we have never seen Beep do this before, or how she normally handles things.
    Presuming you mean, before strip #4025, sure. The problem is what we saw as soon as anything beyond paper-pushing came up. (Never mind beyond paper-pushing, since part of it was not being able to use a printer; anything real.)

    4025: "Help a convicted felon get a functional body? Um...I'm more of an ideas person...try asking nicely?" In that strip, Roko was acting like someone asking her friendly, competent boss for advice on doing what their business exists for. Beepatrice...was not acting competent.
    4026: "Do either of you know how to install a toner cartridge? I didn't realize I needed my printer to actually work before!" Roko was still being polite and deferential, though her frustration was visible to readers.
    4027: "She means well." "Forgot my logon password!" "...okay, she's an idiot."
    4028: Roko asks Beepatrice to do a part of her job, not deferentially, but politely. Beepatrice tries to put her off. Roko snaps at her. Beepatrice scurries off, apparently finding Roko to be a terrifying force of malevolence who had no reason to be more than slightly irked.

    ...so yeah.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Yeah the last part about wanting it done today was a bit of a push but aside from being in an odd hurry to take care of everything right this very moment for some reason, roko hasnt done anything to cause beeptrice to react in such a way that she warns this register jockey he needs to be utterly terrified and do as she says or else. The thing is, I sort of understand it both from a character perspective and a narrative one. It wouldnt be much of a story arc if its "Ok, meet me in 10 days for an appointment, then afterwards we can decide where to go for a checkup," etc etc etc And also, I can see that roko is very fired up about this so it makes sense she wants to take care of it right away. Really the only part im actually not happy about is the crack about the manager and extorting a paid day off for may. I guess its all a part of how carried away she gets but I am still kinda hoping for an epiphany where she realizes she is going too far. This seems like a good excuse for one as she has utterly terrified a guy she hasnt even met yet with the way she is acting (somehow)
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    I, meanwhile, think "Beepatrice is utterly incapable of doing her job under normal circumstances and finds someone pushing her to actually do so to be a terrifying force of malevolence" is at least part of the intended takeaway here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    While that was part of my takeaway as well, theres basically no part of this where Roko has been acting appropriately. For all her purported fear of cops being dirty and falling prey to temptation, she herself is being pretty hypocritical here, circumventing procedures and outright breaking the law to get May out of work.
    The two states are not exclusive. Beepatrice does seem incompetent and Roko is acting inappropriately at the very end.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    ....
    4028: Roko asks Beepatrice to do a part of her job, not deferentially, but politely. Beepatrice tries to put her off. Roko snaps at her. Beepatrice scurries off, apparently finding Roko to be a terrifying force of malevolence who had no reason to be more than slightly irked.

    ...so yeah.
    Note that Roko did not ASK Beep to do something. She told her to, and furthermore told her to treat it as an emergency (which it does NOT appear to be). Beep asking to schedule it as an appointment is exactly the way it should be done. After all, you may have bots in queue who are actually not physically functional at the moment.

    May even addresses it. "I thought you said she was YOUR boss". There are plenty of places where treating your boss like that gets you fired (and deservedly so).
    "That's a horrible idea! What time?"

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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by tomandtish View Post
    Note that Roko did not ASK Beep to do something. She told her to, and furthermore told her to treat it as an emergency (which it does NOT appear to be). Beep asking to schedule it as an appointment is exactly the way it should be done. After all, you may have bots in queue who are actually not physically functional at the moment.

    May even addresses it. "I thought you said she was YOUR boss". There are plenty of places where treating your boss like that gets you fired (and deservedly so).
    Beepatrice doesn't deserve her position. She's utterly incompetent in everything we've been shown so far.
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    Beepatrice doesn't deserve her position. She's utterly incompetent in everything we've been shown so far.
    This. You can't insulate a boss from their own incompetence, and firing of people for calling them out on this incompetence is ultimately self-destructive to any business or organization.

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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    I was also under the impression that Roko was driven to help others, which is likely why she joined the police force and left when FELONS were being mistreated. She might not be delicate about her compassion, but she's going to help no matter what.

    Through I agree with Traab. How the hell do you get a position helping people stuck in decaying and broken bodies and not have a slightly thick skin? Roko might be inappropriate, but she was curt, not a biting off her head and threatening all that Beeps holds dear. I don't know a lot of ex-police officers, but I would imagine that them alongside ex-firefighters and ex-EMT as being very straight to the point and blunt about things when **** needs to get done.

    This exchange makes me wonder if the intended take away is that Beeps is INCREDIBLY two-faced, in that she'll present a situation where she felt slighted as Roko rampaging across Boston like Godzilla instead of using communication skills. You know, like someone in charge of people should?Instead of gently correcting Roko away from the clients, she's damaging Roko's professional reputation for who knows how long to come.
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    This exchange makes me wonder if the intended take away is that Beeps is INCREDIBLY two-faced, in that she'll present a situation where she felt slighted as Roko rampaging across Boston like Godzilla instead of using communication skills. You know, like someone in charge of people should?Instead of gently correcting Roko away from the clients, she's damaging Roko's professional reputation for who knows how long to come.
    While I wouldn't put Beep to that level of competence, maybe that would actually have the opposite effect.

    "Another complaint about robo-discrimination, boss."

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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by John Cribati View Post
    While I wouldn't put Beep to that level of competence, maybe that would actually have the opposite effect.

    "Another complaint about robo-discrimination, boss."

    "Yeah, and?"

    "They've got Basilisk as their advocate."

    "S**t."
    ...This poses a question on how charities are run in the near future, and how much of it is screaming at people.
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    ...This poses a question on how charities are run in the near future, and how much of it is screaming at people.
    Depending on the charity and the target of said screaming, that's not so much different from how things are nowadays.

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