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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    Beepatrice deserved to be bulldozed aside, she's incompetent and unwilling to do what she's nominally there to do.
    Yes, this *is* how well-meaning and gentle people should be treated if you perceive them as being weaker than you.

    ESPECIALLY when your last-but-one story arc was about how you despised that behaviour in others and wanted to change your life in order to be a better example than the bullies who otherwise inhabit the world.
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    Yes, this *is* how well-meaning and gentle people should be treated if you perceive them as being weaker than you.

    ESPECIALLY when your last-but-one story arc was about how you despised that behaviour in others and wanted to change your life in order to be a better example than the bullies who otherwise inhabit the world.
    Has nothing to do with anyone being "weaker".

    Beepatrice is utterly incompetent to the point of being actively detrimental to the cause she says she's helping. As shown so far, she's useless.

    Roko didn't just shove Beepatrice aside, she tried multiple times to get Beepatrice to do the most basic parts of actually helping someone, and ever more basic parts, until finally giving up and doing it herself.

    https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=4025
    https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=4026
    https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=4027

    Beepatrice is an AI, and she can't even manage to install a damn toner cartridge or remember he own computer password.
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    See my earlier comment than "throwing shade" is idiotic slang.
    Unless you're just griping that the existence of slang of any sort is idiotic, exactly how is "throwing shade" dumber than any other random piece of slang humans have come up with? I think it's the bee's knees, Daddy-O.

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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    Yes, this *is* how well-meaning and gentle people should be treated if you perceive them as being weaker than you.

    ESPECIALLY when your last-but-one story arc was about how you despised that behaviour in others and wanted to change your life in order to be a better example than the bullies who otherwise inhabit the world.
    I think you're having two different conversations. You saw Roko bully an innocent person; Max (and I, for that matter) saw a legal adult in a position of responsibility fall apart because someone spoke to her in a mildly annoyed way.

    I think the next strip or two will show Roko expressing concern for Beepatrice, but I think you're in for disappointment if you're expecting the comic to be all "this was indicative of a major character flaw in Roko."

    (Though you probably have more hope than you would if she'd actually threatened to stab or shoot someone.)
    Last edited by Kish; 2019-06-24 at 04:53 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by mucat View Post
    Unless you're just griping that the existence of slang of any sort is idiotic, exactly how is "throwing shade" dumber than any other random piece of slang humans have come up with? I think it's the bee's knees, Daddy-O.
    Word up, fam.
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    Beepatrice deserved to be bulldozed aside, she's incompetent and unwilling to do what she's nominally there to do.

    [...]

    The parole officer is a useless pencil-pusher who can't even tell that he's been "patronized".


    Like I said earlier, too many of the AIs come across as children going through the motions and following the rules of what they see their "big siblings" the humans do, without really understanding the underlying reasons and bigger picture.
    Putting aside the question of if anybody deserves to get bulldozed over, she's not unwilling to do her job, she's unwilling, she's unwilling to declare an emergency when none exists and kick down doors to get what she wants. that's not saying she shouldn't be more assertive or less hesitant but it's still something different. (and I'd like to put the incompetence down to nervousness but that's just conjecture)

    You know almost literally nothing about the parole officer so I'd love to know what leads you to that second statement.

    I think that's a pretty blanket statement, though it does apply to some AIs. But it could just be because it's almost impossible to judge an AI's age and some of them might be quite literally children.
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    They're working for an AI Rights group. All their clients have some of their rights denied or violated. That's literally the thing they do.

    If her best idea is "Uhh, we could ask them nicely to please not violate or deny them their rights?", can't even use the office equipment and her first reaction to an actual action plan is "Let's not do that today" instead of "I'll see what I can do." she's just not very good at that job.

    She could have first called them and tried to get May in. If she had then said "I tried but they're filled up with actual emergencies but I got you something first thing tomorrow", then Roko's reaction would have been far more dickish. In this case it was just a pre-emptive "I don't wanna sound pushy to the guy on the phone, so why not next week?"

    Again, this is an AI Rights group. Their very nature is that they HAVE to push back against obstacles, because the clients have already done all they can, all they're able to, and have not succeeded.

    I'm not saying Roko was right. I admit, it was not an actual emergency. But Beeps reaction (especially to the store clerk then) was over the top.

    Let's agree they both have to work a bit on some issues. Roko definitely has to curb her enthusiasm somewhat and not has to do everything "NOW NOW NOW" and Beeps need to step hers up a little

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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    May is adorable today

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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr View Post
    May is adorable today
    Yes, very much. Maybe except for the last part. It's nice to see her happy for once.

    Also, I'm certainly not saying Beeps behaved ideally. I'm just having a problem with people painting the scene black and white, claiming she's unwilling to do her 'job', and Roko acting without fault.
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    I still don't quite get what shade Roko is supposed to be throwing, other than "the system sucks". Parole officer dude (Nelson, apparently?) is doing his job to the best of his ability. It's literally not his job to make sure May has a functioning chassis, and outside of lodging a formal complaint there is little he can do. Even giving Roko a statement that he thinks the system is failing her has to go through legal. He's doing everything within his power (and his power is almost nonexistent) to help. Saying he's one of the good ones is a straight up compliment as he's not obliged to do anything.

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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Kato View Post
    Yes, very much. Maybe except for the last part. It's nice to see her happy for once.

    Also, I'm certainly not saying Beeps behaved ideally. I'm just having a problem with people painting the scene black and white, claiming she's unwilling to do her 'job', and Roko acting without fault.
    But except for black-mailing May's manager, Roko hasn't done anything wrong and Beep did everything wrong. Seriously, this isn't a question about acting "ideally", it's about acting correctly at all. If this had been an exam, Beeps would've been given a big red F for Failure.

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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    To me, it seems like Beepatrice has never actually dealt with a systematic issue like this one, and she's been treating it as a personal one. Advocacy groups tend to not get anywhere with something like this by playing nice: some kind of weight needs to be thrown around in order to get anywhere. And while I dont agree with all of Roko's individual decisions, I can't find fault in her overall course of action or the way she's carrying herself.

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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Maryring View Post
    But except for black-mailing May's manager, Roko hasn't done anything wrong and Beep did everything wrong. Seriously, this isn't a question about acting "ideally", it's about acting correctly at all. If this had been an exam, Beeps would've been given a big red F for Failure.
    Beeps is incompetent, hard stop. You don't make a days punchline be about how a robot office-worker can't change a toner cartridge if you aren't attempting to shout incompetence with a bullhorn. That is clearly part of the story setup.

    With Roko, it is less clear. It sure seems like she is being portrayed as taking that same police strongarm behavior she quit over, and applying it to her new passion. She also seems to be portrayed as the only sane person/adult amongst children character. Both portrayals appear to be happening, and it is unclear if one is deliberate and the other unintentional, both are intentional and competing messaging is deliberate, or if both are intentional and Jeph doesn't see any cross-purposeness to it. One of the confusing parts is that Roko is absolutely going out of her way to unnecessarily step on toes, which isn't normally the best way of accomplishing one's goals... except that it worked. Getting May time off by threatening her manager with blackmail (regardless of the ethics of it)- shouldn't have worked. Shouting at her incompetent boss such that she suddenly becomes competent- shouldn't have worked (people as emotionally constrained as Beeps don't rise to the occasion when shouted at, the break). A panicked phone call to the robot repair shop about an irate potential customer who won't take no for an answer-shouldn't have worked. But it did. So it's really hard to figure out if there's supposed to be a message about how you can be a polite and reasonable person (and actually more of an adult than a headstrong jerk) and still get results or not, because if there's some comeuppance coming for Roko, we sure haven't seen it. Right now she's bulldozing hard and it is working.
    Last edited by Willie the Duck; 2019-06-25 at 09:07 AM.

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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by georgie_leech View Post
    Word up, fam.
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Kato View Post
    Putting aside the question of if anybody deserves to get bulldozed over, she's not unwilling to do her job, she's unwilling, she's unwilling to declare an emergency when none exists and kick down doors to get what she wants. that's not saying she shouldn't be more assertive or less hesitant but it's still something different. (and I'd like to put the incompetence down to nervousness but that's just conjecture)

    You know almost literally nothing about the parole officer so I'd love to know what leads you to that second statement.
    Every time we see him, he's shrugging at May "Oh, your body's falling apart? I'll write it down in a file somewhere where no one will care about it."

    Also, I think the "conjucture" in your post should be "a ridiculous stretch to avoid what Jeph just hit us in the face with."

    So yeah; I don't quite know if Jeph is trying to make a statement about all AIs (I think it's more likely that he's, as with a number of human characters, writing stuff that amuses him without worrying much about plausibility), but neither Beepatrice nor the parole officer merits this tortured defense.
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Most importantly, there is a big difference between doing this as a police officer and doing this as a concerned citizen of a rights organization.

    The difference is power. A policeman has power, granted to them with the assumption that they will be cautious when using it. When you trample over people as a police, it's the badge trampling people.

    A citizen rights activist, on the other hand, has basically negative power, because not only do they not have power, generally speaking it's in the best interests of most people they have to tackle to pretend like they don't exist. You kinda have to be very direct when you do this kind of job, because anything subtler than a big oaken cluebat will be politely written down and then thrown into the paper bin.

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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    Every time we see him, he's shrugging at May "Oh, your body's falling apart? I'll write it down in a file somewhere where no one will care about it."

    Also, I think the "conjucture" in your post should be "a ridiculous stretch to avoid what Jeph just hit us in the face with."

    So yeah; I don't quite know if Jeph is trying to make a statement about all AIs (I think it's more likely that he's, as with a number of human characters, writing stuff that amuses him without worrying much about plausibility), but neither Beepatrice nor the parole officer merits this tortured defense.
    What is a tortured defense?

    Did we see the parole officer before? Do we have an idea what exactly is part of his job and what not?

    Maybe conjecture isn't the best word, non-native speaker and all. We know she's been working there for a while so her being totally useless like this all the time seems unlikely. Is assumption more fitting?


    Btw, going back to an earlier point, if you call a hospital and claim you have an emergency on hand but in fact only want a normal check up, you certainly WON'T get your check up, also, you might meet with the police. And I know the shop is not a hospital, but if we treat AI as people..
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    I said what would have been more fitting, man. There's no point to trying to get me to validate what you're saying.
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Kato View Post
    What is a tortured defense?

    Did we see the parole officer before? Do we have an idea what exactly is part of his job and what not?

    Maybe conjecture isn't the best word, non-native speaker and all. We know she's been working there for a while so her being totally useless like this all the time seems unlikely. Is assumption more fitting?


    Btw, going back to an earlier point, if you call a hospital and claim you have an emergency on hand but in fact only want a normal check up, you certainly WON'T get your check up, also, you might meet with the police. And I know the shop is not a hospital, but if we treat AI as people..
    Yes we saw the parole officer before, when she was complaining about how her face is ripped off and her arm fell off and he basically says, "Yeah it sucks but ah well, I cant do anything about that."
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Kato View Post
    Did we see the parole officer before? Do we have an idea what exactly is part of his job and what not?
    Yes. He blew May off the last time she tried to get help with her parole-board-issued body.

    "Wow that sucks but I'm just doing my job here and this is all the rules let me do so too bad bye now."

    Too busy at work to trawl for the actual comic.



    Quote Originally Posted by Kato View Post
    Btw, going back to an earlier point, if you call a hospital and claim you have an emergency on hand but in fact only want a normal check up, you certainly WON'T get your check up, also, you might meet with the police. And I know the shop is not a hospital, but if we treat AI as people.
    Was there anyone else waiting in line? Do we see anyone else being pushed aside to fit May in today?

    "Emergency"... given the technician at the shop's description of her body, and the issue with its battery charge being unreliable, and some of the other things that happened, it kinda is an emergency. What if her battery just failed completely while she was crossing the street?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    Yes. He blew May off the last time she tried to get help with her parole-board-issued body.

    "Wow that sucks but I'm just doing my job here and this is all the rules let me do so too bad bye now."

    Too busy at work to trawl for the actual comic.
    He didn't blow her off, he told her he didn't have any ability to help her and apologized. Comic here.

    I don't get what people expect the parole dude to do. The official channel for getting the issue fixed has been rebuffed because the chassis is out of warranty. He himself has no power to push the issue up the chain outside of what he has already done. Him putting a note in her file is absolutely something that can matter when May's parole comes up for review.

    The core of the problem is something that likely would go all the way up to "elected official" level - getting more funding in the budget for the correctional department so that they can afford better bodies for ex-cons. My assumption is that this is a systemic issue affecting hundreds of AIs in the jurisdiction, of which May is one of many.

    Yes, it would be great to see him stick his neck on the line and possibly lose his job protesting the injustice. I don't feel it's fair to criticize him for not doing so, especially when we don't know his circumstances or how likely such an action would be to succeed.

    I refuse to think worse of someone for doing their job to the best of their ability, and I haven't seen any indication that he isn't. Bureaucracy just sucks.

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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    He didn't blow her off, he told her he didn't have any ability to help her and apologized. Comic here.

    I don't get what people expect the parole dude to do. The official channel for getting the issue fixed has been rebuffed because the chassis is out of warranty. He himself has no power to push the issue up the chain outside of what he has already done. Him putting a note in her file is absolutely something that can matter when May's parole comes up for review.

    The core of the problem is something that likely would go all the way up to "elected official" level - getting more funding in the budget for the correctional department so that they can afford better bodies for ex-cons. My assumption is that this is a systemic issue affecting hundreds of AIs in the jurisdiction, of which May is one of many.

    Yes, it would be great to see him stick his neck on the line and possibly lose his job protesting the injustice. I don't feel it's fair to criticize him for not doing so, especially when we don't know his circumstances or how likely such an action would be to succeed.

    I refuse to think worse of someone for doing their job to the best of their ability, and I haven't seen any indication that he isn't. Bureaucracy just sucks.
    It might be something other than a funding issue. Its entirely possible there was a breakdown in responsibility and instead of getting the basic humanoid model, no frills, they got the cheapest bits of over used garbage they could get. For all we know, someone is pocketing the money saved for themselves because "who cares about a couple criminals? No sympathy for them" and funding their own lifestyle by palming off 4th hand anthro bodies and relying on nobody caring about the griping of a bunch of criminals. That might be a better direction to take the story in, unless this really is all about trying to make a comic analogue to talk about americas legal system. It would give the narrative a bad guy to target and bring down, rather than either a drawn out legal battle turned grassroots campaign for better treatment for ex cons, or a quick nonsense ending where the gubbamint goes "Oh em gee we are so sorry and didnt know, here is a mercedes anthro body for your trouble and we will fix everything going forward. The End."
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    He didn't blow her off, he told her he didn't have any ability to help her and apologized. Comic here.

    I don't get what people expect the parole dude to do. The official channel for getting the issue fixed has been rebuffed because the chassis is out of warranty. He himself has no power to push the issue up the chain outside of what he has already done. Him putting a note in her file is absolutely something that can matter when May's parole comes up for review.

    The core of the problem is something that likely would go all the way up to "elected official" level - getting more funding in the budget for the correctional department so that they can afford better bodies for ex-cons. My assumption is that this is a systemic issue affecting hundreds of AIs in the jurisdiction, of which May is one of many.

    Yes, it would be great to see him stick his neck on the line and possibly lose his job protesting the injustice. I don't feel it's fair to criticize him for not doing so, especially when we don't know his circumstances or how likely such an action would be to succeed.

    I refuse to think worse of someone for doing their job to the best of their ability, and I haven't seen any indication that he isn't. Bureaucracy just sucks.
    I'd add that new and untested bureaucracy is particularly prone to errors and having individual cases fall through the cracks. AIs existing in the QC universe is a new issue, embodied AIs is an even newer one. Legal systems react slowly by nature and when forced to scramble huge messes result and spend many years working their way through the court system. Exactly how the maintenance of a court-issued chassis should be conducted, and who should have oversight, and what civil rights are in question here, are not simple questions and their resolution would likely require complex court cases and thousands of words of regulatory legalese. This isn't something a parole officer can address - and in fact he's probably actively prohibited from any sort of direct intervention (he almost certainly is not allowed to just give May money to upgrade). Low-level officials in bureaucracies are not without power, but the powers they possess are tightly limited and narrowly focused and outside of those areas they may actually have less ability to act that ordinary members of the general public.
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  24. - Top - End - #234
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    It might be something other than a funding issue. Its entirely possible there was a breakdown in responsibility and instead of getting the basic humanoid model, no frills, they got the cheapest bits of over used garbage they could get.
    It could even be an issue where communication just broke down between departments. If one department was dedicated to reusing old chassises to reduce waste supplying the parole department, and the parole department has to answer to both the department in charge of inventory or budget, well, it's going to be a mess, even without malice.

    And there might not be enough research on AI bodies I wonder if being stuck in one with operational issues might lead to AI dementia, or worse.
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Wrong color shoes, Beeps. The magic is all in the shoes.

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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Okay, my bad, I'll take a step back from the above discussion because I feel it might have gotten a bit heated.
    Just my last few words: I don't even so much have an issue with Roko's behavior (except the emergency bit) but with the impression I got that it's fine to do whatever (lie, hurt feelings, insult..) to get what I want for myself, or my friend. Which I feel is just a problematic attitude to have.

    Quote Originally Posted by mucat View Post
    Wrong color shoes, Beeps. The magic is all in the shoes.
    Yeah, you can't be a creepy clone without the right shoes I really hope this is not what the arc is leading to. But it suits Beeps, I guess ?
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    So nobody is commenting on the fact she has "ABS" written on her belly? No? Ok.

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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by Morquard View Post
    So nobody is commenting on the fact she has "ABS" written on her belly? No? Ok.
    Note that Roko's chassis actually has abs. Beeps probably wrote that on herself, and thus the illusion is flawless.
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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    I also don't think it's the first time one of the AIs did something like that.

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    Default Re: Questionable Content XV: I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS! I Told You This Thread Was Weird

    Quote Originally Posted by mucat View Post
    Wrong color shoes, Beeps. The magic is all in the shoes.
    Wrong color skin, too. These clothes contrast a lot more against Beep's bright yellow skin than against Roko's muted purple. This makes the outfit look skimpier on Beeps than on Robo, IMO.


    Anyway, most AI are dumb and wacky because that's what amuses Jeph Jacques. Even Roko, who is the adult in charge in the current arc, has a "bread fetish" that makes her act like a embarrassed child. A robot that can't use a printer or remember a password when she's literally a computer? Hahaha, how funny! Of course it's all jokes that Jeph already did with Melon before.
    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Roamer View Post
    I think he did the only morally acceptable thing by killing everyone.
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