Crown above door at Dwarven council

[Fyraltari]

Jurassic Park is one of my favorite movies. The Last Crusade is also right up there; without spoiling anything, the Hitler scene manages to go from absolutely terrifying to completely hilarious in the most perfect way imaginable. You seen Shawshank Redemption or The Blues Brothers? Both are also in my favorites list, and are ones I'd recommend wholeheartedly. Fair warning, Shawshank Redemptionis.... let's say not a family-friendly one.

No, and Yes.

I'm not easily digusted. Besides, I find that American rating agencies have a much lower base than French ones when it comes to recommended age.

[Aeson]

Not the official one, at least. De Facto, I'm pretty sure he is.

Tarquin's and Malack's role in the government of the Empire of Blood is more likely that of Head of Government than Head of State, though Tarquin presiding over the parade and the games thrown when Elan came to the city might push him more towards a de facto Head of State position.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Watch Shawshank and you'll appreciate the warning. A couple scenes are definitely not for kids, but several are more difficult for someone who can't sit and follow the conversation.

For Cowboy Bebop, do you mean the series or the movie? The movie is good, but the series is better. Still can't believe it only got 26 episodes.

[Fyraltari]

His oath is extremely specific indeed: "obey the will of the council on issues affecting the clans". Which results in him never making decisions without hearing from everyone else ("I am told he's never cast his vote without polling them first"), since all his actions would affect the clans. It is therefore not an unfair characterization.

He never votes without consulting the clans, because the Moots are gathering of all the gods to discuss an issue. An issue that concerns all the gods is most likely to concern all the dwarven clans as well. This does not indicate that in his other duties as a god, and in his former duties as mortal king he never made a decision without pulling them. Since his Oath only binds him in case of decisions "affecting all the clans"

No, it does not. It puts a heavy emphasis in dying with honor, which for politicians includes fighting in their own terms, i.e. via politics. Battle is not at all required, as Rich has been extremely clear about.

Battle is not required but it is the most common way, as is repeatedly stated in comic (Hoskin even contempleted killing Kandro himself, for crying out loud). They're still a martyrdom culture. They would expect their king to fight in the front, as honor dictates.

Also, if Dvalin was truly a genius of conciliation as you seem to believe he would be reducing his chances to be assinated in the political arena and therefore more likely to go and pick as many battles as he could.

It means war, and usually refers to civil war.

Didn't know that, thanks.

If he has won a war, no oath is needed. That kind of appeasement oath is the conclusion of alliance building, not of wholesale slaughter.

Are you familiar with the expression "Won the war, lost the peace"? A victor must make concession to their defeated foe, less they simply set the stage for another war. Especially if unification was their goal rather than dominance.

I see no reason to assume Dvalin so much as killed a fly in life.

According to the giant most Dwarves live long enough to have multiple occasion to die with honor. I'm pretty sure most aged dwarves we've seen have killed a lot of things. Especially if they have a position of authority that would require them to lead they followers in battle. This is not a peaceful world.

No, it doesn't require high level. It requires you to be about the same level as the people you are facing.

But you'd need to be above them to have a more than 50% odd of winning, so the higher in the political food chain, the higher the level required to convince people, no?

[citation needed for OotS]

I mean Xykon is called out as being powerful enough to alter the course of battles single-handedly, Miko being highest-ranking in the SG corellated with her being their most powerful warrior, and if you have a high enough bluff you can alter you interlocutors' perception of reality which sounds invaluable to a politican.

It is also clearly circular. "The crown is magic because I say it's magic", in a nutshell.

That's completel tosh, relics being inherently magical because of their links to divine and quasi-divine indiciduals is onr the oldest and most popular convention of folklore ever. Arguably the most archetypical McGuffin ever, the Holy Grail is (according to popular culture) a perfectly ordinary cup that is only important because it interacted twice with the local god-man.

Object don't randomly acquire magical powers every X years in any D&D setting I'm aware of.

Nobody said they would, what are you even talking about?

Grey Wolf[/QUOTE]

Watch Shawshank and you'll appreciate the warning. A couple scenes are definitely not for kids, but several are more difficult for someone who can't sit and follow the conversation.

What are you implying?

For Cowboy Bebop, do you mean the series or the movie?

Yes.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

What are you implying?

Trigger warning for rape. Also, trigger warning for deep emotional gutpunch (in a completely different scene)

(As to our conversation about the likelihood of the crown being magical, I'm convinced we are at an impasse).

Grey Wolf

[Fyraltari]

Trigger warning for rape. Also, trigger warning for deep emotional gutpunch (in a completely different scene)

Duly, noted.

(As to our conversation about the likelihood of the crown being magical, I'm convinced we are at an impasse).

Grey Wolf

Heh. Agree to disagree?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Agree to disagree?

Given that we aren't even disagreeing - we both accept that the crown could be magical - it's not even that. We're splitting straws. The argument has run its course, and it's resting entirely on priors we have no way of defending except by invoking our respective guts. And as fond as I am of mine, it is hardly an authority on which to base an argument.

Grey Wolf

[Fyraltari]

Fine by me.

[Peelee]

Also, trigger warning for deep emotional gutpunch (in a completely different scene)

Several, IMO, though the specific one you're talking about is the worst.

Spoiler: The other ones. HUGE spoilers

Show

The fat prisoner's first night and the beating Hadley gives him, the beating Hadley gives Boggs, and Norton's suicide. Even for no-names and villains that I have zero sympathy for, those were dark.

But dang if that isn't a good movie.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Several, IMO, though the specific one you're talking about is the worst.

Eh. The first two aren't as bad. Standard fare for this kind of film. But the last one is the only scene that brings tears to my eyes every damn time.

But dang if that isn't a good movie.

The best, IMnpHO.

Grey Wolf

[Fyraltari]

Okay, okay, I'll watch it!
Well put it on the list, at least.

[Peelee]

Eh. The first two aren't as bad. Standard fare for this kind of film. But the last one is the only scene that brings tears to my eyes every damn time.

Spoiler

Show

I dunno. Not many prison movies feature beatings that are that brutal, at least not overtly. Doubly at least not before that one came out. And even then, Boggs' is scarier due to the filmography. You just see him crawling out, completely helpless, grabbing on to the rail and sobbing for help, and then just gets pulled back in. It's like the opener from Jaws. Just terrifying.

The best, IMnpHO.

Grey Wolf

I go back and forth every decade, but it's certainly got a valid claim regardless.

Oh, and Fyraltari, also Jaws. Quint's USS Indianapolis speech is, IMO, the greatest monologue in cinema. It's like you're in the water with him, it's just hypnotic. Robert Shaw deserved a friggin Oscar for that. I know, I completely disregard the Oscars normally, but the point comes across.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Several, IMO, though the specific one you're talking about is the worst.

Spoiler: The other ones. HUGE spoilers

Show

The fat prisoner's first night and the beating Hadley gives him, the beating Hadley gives Boggs, and Norton's suicide. Even for no-names and villains that I have zero sympathy for, those were dark.

But dang if that isn't a good movie.

Also James Whitmore's character, especially after his release. That's one that has started more than a few uncomfortable conversations, even with adults.

[Fyraltari]

Oh, hey, I forgot Terminator I and II and La Marche de l'Empereur.

Alright, and Jaws too.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Spoiler

Show

I dunno. Not many prison movies feature beatings that are that brutal, at least not overtly. Doubly at least not before that one came out. And even then, Boggs' is scarier due to the filmography. You just see him crawling out, completely helpless, grabbing on to the rail and sobbing for help, and then just gets pulled back in. It's like the opener from Jaws. Just terrifying.

Spoiler

Show

I'm not saying it isn't brutal. Hadley, after all, is a monster. But it doesn't rise to the level of emotional gut punch, not for me. In part because you aren't emotionally attached to the characters involved.

...

And I've only just realised I don't even agree with you on the third one. I sort of assumed we were talking about the same scene, but we were not. I was thinking of Brook, not Norton. I have never shed a tear for Norton. May the bastard rest in pieces.

Also James Whitmore's character, especially after his release. That's one that has started more than a few uncomfortable conversations, even with adults.

Yes, that's actually what I was thinking.

Well put it on the list,a t least.

Heck, as long as you get to it around the time Peelee starts on Pratchett, I'm good.

Grey Wolf

[Rogar Demonblud]

If we're just making movie recommendations now, I'll suggest The Shootist, probably the best thing John Wayne did. It bills itself as just another shoot 'em up, but has a lot more to do with the end of an era and facing your mortality (which also fits the time it was filmed and Wayne's steadily worsening health).

[Fyraltari]

Heck, as long as you get to it around the time Peelee starts on Pratchett, I'm good.

Now, Peelee and I just need to find you some piece of media, you need to consume as soon as possible and we'll be settled!

[Peelee]

Spoiler

Show

I'm not saying it isn't brutal. Hadley, after all, is a monster. But it doesn't rise to the level of emotional gut punch, not for me. In part because you aren't emotionally attached to the characters involved.

...

And I've only just realised I don't even agree with you on the third one. I sort of assumed we were talking about the same scene, but we were not. I was thinking of Brook, not Norton. I wouldn't shed a tear for Norton. May the bastard rest in pieces.

Grey Wolf

Spoiler

Show

Oh, Brooks was the one I said was the worst, and the one I knew you were specifically talking about. Probably the saddest moment I've seen in a movie. His letter breaks my heart every time.

The others, though... the prisoner, you don't even know what he did. Even then, he's in prison he's going to serve the sentence for whatever crime he's committed, he's going to face justice. And then he doesn't. He gets the death sentence for a perfectly natural reaction, delivered by not a judge, not a jury, only the executioner. And then when the others discuss it, they just accept it. It's just a thing that happens there, nothing to do about it, what's for breakfast?

Even Norton and Boggs, they never actually face justice. Norton takes his own way out, which is still pretty shocking when it's built up like he's going to go down fighting at first, and Boggs gets his comeuppance in the worst way. And not for justice, not because what he did was wrong or that would have happened long ago, but because now the person he tormented was the teacher's pet. The mercurial god turned his nightstick on Boggs and took his ability to walk, and so far as Boggs knows, for no reason whatsoever. As far as he's aware, his fate turned at Hadley's whim.

I'm not saying they didn't deserve what they got, but they were still gutpunches to me. No sadness at their comeuppance, but at the delivery.

Hadley, though... his I like. Broke down crying like a baby when they put the cuffs on, because he knows exactly what his future is going to be. That I feel satisfaction over.

Alright, and Jaws too.

It's slow today, so I went ahead and watched the monologue again. Chills, I'm telling you.

Now, Peelee and I just need to find you some piece of media, you need to consume as soon as possible and we'll be settled!

We could give GW the transcript of that future D&D game.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Now, Peelee and I just need to find you some piece of media, you need to consume as soon as possible and we'll be settled!

Well, I have been looking for sci-fi recommendations I have yet to read (I last read & enjoyed The Lost Fleet, but amazing literature it ain't), and if you two can think of something of quality on par with Shawshank's and Pratchett, by all means bring it on. I know I can trust your likes to align with mine.

Grey Wolf

[Fyraltari]

We could give GW the transcript of that future D&D game.

Also, I took a look at a 5e Player's Handbook earlier today. It's much thicker than I thought it was.

[Peelee]

Also, I took a look at a 5e Player's Handbook earlier today. It's much thicker than I thought it was.

My biggest takeaway from 5e after 3.5 was that it was significantly streamlined. Take from that what you will.

An invite, then?

[Fyraltari]

Well, I have been looking for sci-fi recommendations I have yet to read (I last read & enjoyed The Lost Fleet, but amazing literature it ain't), and if you two can think of something of quality on par with Shawshank's and Pratchett, by all means bring it on. I know I can trust your likes to align with mine.

Grey Wolf

How much of Asimov's have you read?

My biggest takeaway from 5e after 3.5 was that it was significantly streamlined. Take from that what you will.

What? It was bigger than my The One Ring manual and that one combines Player and GM handbooks. And it's a D&D derivative! Who designed 3.5? Abdul Alhazred?

An invite, then?

That's up to you.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

How much of Asimov's have you read?

A tiny percentage, because it's Asimov. Between what he managed to write and what he published from others under his name, not to mention everything non-sci-fi, it's hard to do otherwise.

But I do have his collection of short stories (unhelpfully titled "I, Robot", but I believe it is very complete - certainly has all the ones in the wiki article, and a bunch more besides - including the masterpiece that is Bicentennial Man), I've read all three of the caves of steel series, and at least the first few of the Foundation series. I also have a book with his fantasy short stories (padded on the back with non-fantasy articles about all manner of topics; interesting stuff, taught me a lot about American culture that is still surprisingly relevant to this day). Oh, and at least a couple of his popular science books, which are horrendously dated now.

Grey Wolf

[Rogar Demonblud]

What? It was bigger than my The One Ring manual and that one combines Player and GM handbooks. And it's a D&D derivative! Who designed 3.5? Abdul Alhazred?

Mearls and Cook, mainly. The complete edition has more books than GURPS, before you look through the third party stuff.

[Fyraltari]

A tiny percentage, because it's Asimov. Between what he managed to write and what he published from others under his name, not to mention everything non-sci-fi, it's hard to do otherwise.

Well, yes, obviously.

But I do have his collection of short stories (unhelpfully titled "I, Robot", but I believe it is very complete - certainly has all the ones in the wiki article, and a bunch more besides - including the masterpiece that is Bicentennial Man), I've read all three of the caves of steel series, and at least the first few of the Foundation series.

Well, then The Rest of the Robots, and the rest of the Foundation series are in order then (prequel included). Not to spoil anything but you might be pleasantly surprised.

I also have a book with his fantasy short stories (padded on the back with non-fantasy articles about all manner of topics; interesting stuff, taught me a lot about American culture that is still surprisingly relevant to this day). Oh, and at least a couple of his popular science books, which are horrendously dated now.

Asimov's Mysteries are a ton of fun for some more cross Sci-Fi/detective fiction and for purely Chritie-style detective fiction, Black Widowers is severely underrated. Although that last one is a treat best served in small separate helpings, lest it gets repetitive (Asimov even accidentally used the set-up of one mystery as the solution of another once which kind of spoils the fun when reading them back-to-back, oops).[/QUOTE]

As for very good Sci-Fi, I had my mind recently blown away by the Omale series by Laurent Genefort for its truly original/weird yet strangely relatable aliens (and his wider Vangk Gates universe for the care with which the workings of everything are thought out and detailed). The basic gist is that a whole bunch of humans have been more or less abducted and deposed on the inside of a gigantic Dyson sphere (named Omale) on a inhabitable are hundreds of time the area of the Earth with two others species. We jump back and forth at various points of the History of the civilisations that develop on this place as they make war a,d/or work together. There's a running theme of science vs religious obscurantism too.

Latium By Romain Lucazeau is a space opera starring Neo-Platonian/Neo-Pythagorician A.I. in an alterante universe where the Roman Empire only fell well unto the space age when all of humanity disappeared in mysterious circumstances. The whole book alternates some truly epic space battles (Nukes being used as small arms, I'm not even kidding) and exploration of ancient philosophical concepts and free-will. It's awesome.

Unfortunately for you both of those are in French and I am not aware of any foreign-language translations. But Omale is already 18 year old and Latium 3-year old, so one can hope.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Well, yes, obviously.


Well, then The Rest of the Robots, and the rest of the Foundation series are in order then (prequel included). Not to spoil anything but you might be pleasantly surprised.

Yeah, all the short stories in "The Rest of Robots" I have. Found the exact compilation. Turns out it's "Complete Robot", not "I, Robot". Sorry 'bout that.

As to Foundation, I read as far as "Foundation and Earth", and I was NOT pleasantly surprised. But then, I was not really impressed by any of them after the original, which I loved. Asimov is strongest at short stories. Travel the Galaxy plots aren't anywhere as good.

Grey Wolf

[Fyraltari]

Yeah, all the short stories in "The Rest of Robots" I have. Found the exact compilation. Turns out it's "Complete Robot", not "I, Robot". Sorry 'bout that.

As to Foundation, I read as far as "Foundation and Earth", and I was NOT pleasantly surprised. But then, I was not really impressed by any of them after the original, which I loved. Asimov is strongest at short stories. Travel the Galaxy plots aren't anywhere as good.

Grey Wolf

Ah, so the entire serie, then. Yeah, that twist is kind of hit-or-miss.

[Squire Doodad]

Say, how did we go from talking about Xykon to the depiction of crowns in media to a nonsensical ramble about a fake artifact (which if powered down and made more usable would actually make for a nifty reward item in a dwarf-based campaign arc) to talking about Asimov?

[Fyraltari]

Say, how did we go from talking about Xykon to the depiction of crowns in media to a nonsensical ramble about a fake artifact (which if powered down and made more usable would actually make for a nifty reward item in a dwarf-based campaign arc) to talking about Asimov?

Tralalala-lalala

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age.

[Squire Doodad]

Tralalala-lalala

Right, so, like I said.