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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Default Re: MtG: Color Philosophy Thread!

    For the longest time, I've been pretty down on black. As much as WotC insists that none of the colors are inherently evil, I saw very little of value in black's worldview. All the other colors have good values and ideals that are worth pursuing and preserving in balance, and adding black to any of them just seems to corrupt and debase them. White's concern for the good of all becomes narrow tribalism. Green's respect for fate and nature becomes cynical nihilism. Blue's pursuit of knowledge and truth becomes a tool for personal gain. And red's noble passion and love of liberty becomes selfish hedonism. All the supposed positive traits that black has are things that are in my opinion not positive at all (moral relativism, exaltation of the self) or traits that could just as easily be found in other colors (resourcefulness, drive).

    But taking stock of my character flaws, it does appear that many of them stem from a deficiency in the classically black traits. Complacency, indecisiveness, self-hate, lack of ambition. It seems that a big part of my growth would be learning to embrace the black side of human existence more, rather than rejecting it entirely as I have done. Even if I want to pursue a life for the sake of others rather than for my own self-interest, it's important for me to have a firm sense of self and drive to fulfill my own desires. I don't think I'll ever agree with black's core philosophy, but I might have to acknowledge it as a worthy color that's as important as the others in its own way.

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    Default Re: MtG: Color Philosophy Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Ghost View Post
    For the longest time, I've been pretty down on black. As much as WotC insists that none of the colors are inherently evil, I saw very little of value in black's worldview. All the other colors have good values and ideals that are worth pursuing and preserving in balance, and adding black to any of them just seems to corrupt and debase them. White's concern for the good of all becomes narrow tribalism. Green's respect for fate and nature becomes cynical nihilism. Blue's pursuit of knowledge and truth becomes a tool for personal gain. And red's noble passion and love of liberty becomes selfish hedonism. All the supposed positive traits that black has are things that are in my opinion not positive at all (moral relativism, exaltation of the self) or traits that could just as easily be found in other colors (resourcefulness, drive).

    But taking stock of my character flaws, it does appear that many of them stem from a deficiency in the classically black traits. Complacency, indecisiveness, self-hate, lack of ambition. It seems that a big part of my growth would be learning to embrace the black side of human existence more, rather than rejecting it entirely as I have done. Even if I want to pursue a life for the sake of others rather than for my own self-interest, it's important for me to have a firm sense of self and drive to fulfill my own desires. I don't think I'll ever agree with black's core philosophy, but I might have to acknowledge it as a worthy color that's as important as the others in its own way.
    Its just the way the world spins. Most people look out for themselves, and the occasional naďve idealist who crops up draws more savvy people like blood in the water draws sharks. The naďve idealist either wisens up or loses their shirt—possibly their lives.
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  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: MtG: Color Philosophy Thread!



    I like that I can get a guild logo on a cup now.
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  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: MtG: Color Philosophy Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhentarim View Post


    I like that I can get a guild logo on a cup now.
    Fancy customized Esper logo. Looks pretty snazzy.
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    Wow.
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    Default Re: MtG: Color Philosophy Thread!

    ༩ཇᎠ་་་་་་न६Ꮣ
    Ꮤཇ་་་་་་िᏌསᎠ་་་་་་།Ꭲ

    ................
    red fel
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  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Default Re: MtG: Color Philosophy Thread!

    | White: 291 | Blue: 470 | Black: 225 | Red: 297 | Green: 175 |

    I took the longest version as well, after reading the thread. Interesting, I don't know what I expected, but this doesn't feel right. I think it's the marked difference between black and white/red and the major lagging behind of green. But I can get behind Jeskai, thinking on it white does fit reasonably well with the Izzet in me, sort of tempering the red...

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    Default Re: MtG: Color Philosophy Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shocksrivers View Post
    | White: 291 | Blue: 470 | Black: 225 | Red: 297 | Green: 175 |

    I took the longest version as well, after reading the thread. Interesting, I don't know what I expected, but this doesn't feel right. I think it's the marked difference between black and white/red and the major lagging behind of green. But I can get behind Jeskai, thinking on it white does fit reasonably well with the Izzet in me, sort of tempering the red...
    That looks mono blue to me.
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  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Default Re: MtG: Color Philosophy Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhentarim View Post
    ༩ཇᎠ་་་་་་न६Ꮣ
    Ꮤཇ་་་་་་िᏌསᎠ་་་་་་།Ꭲ

    ................
    red fel
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    Default Re: MtG: Color Philosophy Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    Are you being served, sir?
    That cup a little bit up the page has the “lawful evil” logo on it.
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    Default Re: MtG: Color Philosophy Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhentarim View Post
    That cup a little bit up the page has the “lawful evil” logo on it.
    No, that's the Esper logo. Esper is not inherently LE, though it tends to be, and LE is not inherently Esper either.

    It's also extremely unofficial.
    Last edited by enderlord99; 2019-07-15 at 06:33 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strigon View Post
    Wow.
    That took a very sudden turn for the dark.

    I salute you.
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  11. - Top - End - #71
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    Default Re: MtG: Color Philosophy Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by enderlord99 View Post
    No, that's the Esper logo. Esper is not inherently LE, though it tends to be, and LE is not inherently Esper either.

    It's also extremely unofficial.
    Fair enough. I mostly just wanted Red Fel to see the cup.
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  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Default Re: MtG: Color Philosophy Thread!

    On the 150-question quiz:
    | White: 161 | Blue: 464 | Black: 161 | Red: 249 | Green: 166 |

    Mono blue, but with a bit of red mixed in. I think that's fairly close to how I think of myself. I'm very perfectionistic and academical, but I sometimes get emotional.
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    Default Re: MtG: Color Philosophy Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Flyingbooks42 View Post
    On the 150-question quiz:
    | White: 161 | Blue: 464 | Black: 161 | Red: 249 | Green: 166 |

    Mono blue, but with a bit of red mixed in. I think that's fairly close to how I think of myself. I'm very perfectionistic and academical, but I sometimes get emotional.
    Makes sense.
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  14. - Top - End - #74
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    Default Re: MtG: Color Philosophy Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhentarim View Post
    Fair enough. I mostly just wanted Red Fel to see the cup.
    Meh. Not my kind of cup. I prefer this one.



    But I appreciate the logo. I dig it. Sinister vibe.
    My headache medicine has a little "Ex" inscribed on the pill. It's not a brand name; it's an indicator that it works inside an Anti-Magic Field.

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    Default Re: MtG: Color Philosophy Thread!

    I took the brand archetype quiz for my tutoring business. My tutoring business is a Sage-Ruler-Magician.

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    You have completed the Brand Personality Quiz!

    Your top three Brand Archetypes are displayed below in order of dominance.

    Sage

    (Strength of correlation: 78 out of 84 points.)

    Guided by the discovery of truth, the Sage uses intelligence and analysis to understand the world. Look at brands that provide expertise or information and that encourage people to think and you will see the Sage at work.

    Ruler

    (Strength of correlation: 73 out of 84 points.)

    One word: Control. The Ruler wants to create a prosperous and successful family, company, or community. Brands that enhance or promote power, help people become and stay organized, or promise safety and stability in a chaotic world are easily identified as Ruler archetypes.

    Magician

    (Strength of correlation: 66 out of 84 points.)

    The Magician archetype wants to make dreams come true through knowledge of the fundamental laws of how the world works. In addition to a white rabbit, from his hat the Magician pulls brands that are transformative, have a spiritual or psychological component, or help to expand consciousness.


    For a reasonable price, our knowledgeable experts will help you learn what you need to learn to be successful, whatever that means to you. Knowledge is power!

    At any rate, that seems like a blue/black/white idea.
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  16. - Top - End - #76
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    Default Re: MtG: Color Philosophy Thread!

    Interesting Concept of Color philosophy, and interesting article/test. I got Blue/White, leaning towards blue.

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    Default Re: MtG: Color Philosophy Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Waddlesworth View Post
    Interesting Concept of Color philosophy, and interesting article/test. I got Blue/White, leaning towards blue.
    Sounds like me when I was younger before I got wise and shifted slowly to blue/black.
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  18. - Top - End - #78
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    Default Re: MtG: Color Philosophy Thread!

    I haven't played MTG for over 20 years, though I do still have all my cards stored away in a box somewhere. I doubt I'd really recognise much of the game as it is now. I do seem to recall that when I did play, it was mostly white, white/green or green/red.

    My results come up with blue dominant (around 290), with white/green/red all around 215 and black way back at about 150. Makes sense.

    I like knowledge, learning and understanding, often just for the enjoyment of finding out knew things. Combined that with w/g/r gives what I'd like things to be, but might but just a little too idealistic for this world - freedom and creativity, harmony and peace, truth and heroism. Basically the freedom to be what you want, to do what you want, as long as it is working towards improving the lives of others and remains within the structures of the community. There have to be some laws or things descend into anarchy after all.

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    Default Re: MtG: Color Philosophy Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Ghost View Post
    For the longest time, I've been pretty down on black. As much as WotC insists that none of the colors are inherently evil, I saw very little of value in black's worldview. All the other colors have good values and ideals that are worth pursuing and preserving in balance, and adding black to any of them just seems to corrupt and debase them. White's concern for the good of all becomes narrow tribalism. Green's respect for fate and nature becomes cynical nihilism. Blue's pursuit of knowledge and truth becomes a tool for personal gain. And red's noble passion and love of liberty becomes selfish hedonism. All the supposed positive traits that black has are things that are in my opinion not positive at all (moral relativism, exaltation of the self) or traits that could just as easily be found in other colors (resourcefulness, drive).

    But taking stock of my character flaws, it does appear that many of them stem from a deficiency in the classically black traits. Complacency, indecisiveness, self-hate, lack of ambition. It seems that a big part of my growth would be learning to embrace the black side of human existence more, rather than rejecting it entirely as I have done. Even if I want to pursue a life for the sake of others rather than for my own self-interest, it's important for me to have a firm sense of self and drive to fulfill my own desires. I don't think I'll ever agree with black's core philosophy, but I might have to acknowledge it as a worthy color that's as important as the others in its own way.
    I have a quote that probably counts as either Black-centered Golgari or mono-Black, yet is still (relatively) morally-sound advice (at least IMO):

    "I never understood the 'duel.' If you are at war, use every tool at your disposal; if not, let things lie."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strigon View Post
    Wow.
    That took a very sudden turn for the dark.

    I salute you.
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  20. - Top - End - #80
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    Default Re: MtG: Color Philosophy Thread!

    From the linked test: Blue 322, Green 192, Red 168, White 128, Black 122.

    Mono blue planeswalker, apparently.

    Interesting, since I always gravitated toward Red and Green in the game itself.
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    Default Re: MtG: Color Philosophy Thread!

    I got blue / white; | White: 256 | Blue: 321 | Black: 212 | Red: 102 | Green: 191 |

    For what's it's worth I didn't know what I really expected. But the first sentence of the result description really resonated.

    A Blue/White Planeswalker asks the question how do we know what's right and good? The whole concept of a "rationality technique" is extremely white/blue, the idea that we might create carefully defined, algorithmic heuristics for doing things better according to some outside standard is not one that other color combinations are likely to produce.
    What's good is something that I ask myself quite a lot.
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    Default Re: MtG: Color Philosophy Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by thethird View Post
    I got blue / white; | White: 256 | Blue: 321 | Black: 212 | Red: 102 | Green: 191 |

    For what's it's worth I didn't know what I really expected. But the first sentence of the result description really resonated.



    What's good is something that I ask myself quite a lot.
    I struggled with “what’s good” for years. The answer according to my painstaking research is “good” is relative to what pleases the most powerful person or group of people in a given society. I have since been on a quest to obtain that power.
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    Default Re: MtG: Color Philosophy Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhentarim View Post
    I struggled with “what’s good” for years. The answer according to my painstaking research is “good” is relative to what pleases the most powerful person or group of people in a given society. I have since been on a quest to obtain that power.
    Why do you talk like a super villain?
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    Default Re: MtG: Color Philosophy Thread!

    the long version. apparently im a bit of everything.

    You are a Multicolored Wonder. The Planes are at your fingertips
    yo, your scores are...
    | White: 270 | Blue: 262 | Black: 263 | Red: 290 | Green: 212 |
    There is no holding you back. You are intertwined with all of the facets of life and, when given the chance, use them to your full advantage.

    i'd have to say that in the game, i most like white or blue, but black and even green if built right can be great fun, my tournament deck was a kobold deck, that given the right draw was a 2nd turn kill. My two fav decks of all time are a white deck that isn't offensive at all, i just outlast you, and an artifact deck that requires a mountain of counters to play. I haven't bought new cards in probably 10 years. I used to buy a booster now and then just to see how the game is going, but my collection started in arabian nights, and ended in unglued for the most part.

    other then playing w/ my brothers every few years, i haven't had a game in forever, no one plays around here, or they only play the last 2-3 editions meaning i have to read every single card they play...
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    Default Re: MtG: Color Philosophy Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjaman View Post
    Why do you talk like a super villain?
    I studied philosophy and history.
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    Default Re: MtG: Color Philosophy Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhentarim View Post
    I studied philosophy and history.
    Say no more.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cizak View Post
    I'm gonna be against the flow here and say outlined.

    What? Everyone else are against the flow too, okay?
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    Default Re: MtG: Color Philosophy Thread!

    I'm strongly artifice (WUBR) aligned, especially U, follored by B, W, and R, with green languishing down at the bottom somewhere.

    Green has always bothered me because it always seems like the shoo-in "Nature!" colour.

    "Gideon, what do you fight for?"
    "Honesty, integrity, and justice!"
    "What about you, Jace?"
    "Hmm? I wasn't listening, I was too busy with this fascinating experiment..."
    "Okay, what about you, Liliana?"
    "Power, and the ability to rule my own destiny!"
    "Nice. Chandra?"
    "Freedom, and an excuse to set things on fire!"
    "And what about you, Nissa?"
    "NATURE YAY!"

    Except, of course, that a bunch of animals are white (birds of prey and cats), blue (seabirds and sea creatures), black (scavengers) or red (fast creatures), so green doesn't really make sense as just the nature colour either. Also, White/Black and Blue/Red make good "Nemesis" pairings, whereas green lacks a nemesis (colourless is almost like green in as much as it's instinct and general passiveness, so it's definitely not green's nemesis). I suspect that a lot of the failure to make purple work thematically is because green is so hollow that it's hard to build its nemesis.

    I dunno, I'm sure there's a more convincing narrative for green than "Woo nature instinct growth plants!" but I'm not really sure what it is.

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    Default Re: MtG: Color Philosophy Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    Except, of course, that a bunch of animals are white (birds of prey and cats), blue (seabirds and sea creatures), black (scavengers) or red (fast creatures), so green doesn't really make sense as just the nature colour either. Also, White/Black and Blue/Red make good "Nemesis" pairings, whereas green lacks a nemesis (colourless is almost like green in as much as it's instinct and general passiveness, so it's definitely not green's nemesis). I suspect that a lot of the failure to make purple work thematically is because green is so hollow that it's hard to build its nemesis.
    You're aware of how the color wheel works, right?

    Green is allied colors with white and red, and enemies with black and blue.

    Every color has two allies and two enemies, there is no single nemesis, that is not how the colors are designed.


    Green is enemies with blue because blue is mind and green is body, green is tradition while blue is innovation. If blue is intelligence then green is wisdom.

    Green is enemies with black because green is life and black is death. Green is preservation, black is exploitation.

    (colourless is almost like green in as much as it's instinct and general passiveness, so it's definitely not green's nemesis).
    The eldrazi are properly as far from being passive as one could ever get.
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    Default Re: MtG: Color Philosophy Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjaman View Post
    You're aware of how the color wheel works, right?

    Green is allied colors with white and red, and enemies with black and blue.

    Every color has two allies and two enemies, there is no single nemesis, that is not how the colors are designed.
    Right, except that when R&D referred to purple causing White and Black to end up as nemesis colours as a "Bonus", it was clear why they thought it was a good thing.

    Green is enemies with blue because blue is mind and green is body, green is tradition while blue is innovation. If blue is intelligence then green is wisdom.
    Except that blue comes across as both intelligence and wisdom (all of the perception-themed cards, like opt and anticipate, are blue, and so are many of the insight-themed cards. The survival ones seem only to be green because, well, NATURE). Green is listed as valuing wisdom, yes, but the way the cards are themed really doesn't bear that out.

    Green is enemies with black because green is life and black is death. Green is preservation, black is exploitation.
    Except that the green-black relationship is consistently portrayed as one where green is in favour of death as part of the natural cycle, and only opposed to unnatural death. To quote, "Green sees death for what it is: a key component in the great circle of life. Black sees it as a weapon, and through misuse of it threatens the very system green cares most about."

    The eldrazi are properly as far from being passive as one could ever get.
    Colourless is not only the colour identity of the eldrazi, but also of mindless automata, random swords and axes, and literal mountains. It's hard to get more passive than that.

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    Default Re: MtG: Color Philosophy Thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    Right, except that when R&D referred to purple causing White and Black to end up as nemesis colours as a "Bonus", it was clear why they thought it was a good thing.
    First, do you have a source for that?
    Second, it's not a good thing. Four or six colors/elements/types of magic that each are opposites of one of the other has been done to dead, and while it might not have been that worn out back when magic started, it means now that magic has a color wheel much more interesting than anything else, because it doesn't just deal with opposites, it deals with relationships. When your colors can't be split down the middle the concepts you are trying to convey with them become so much more powerful.


    Except that blue comes across as both intelligence and wisdom (all of the perception-themed cards, like opt and anticipate, are blue, and so are many of the insight-themed cards. The survival ones seem only to be green because, well, NATURE). Green is listed as valuing wisdom, yes, but the way the cards are themed really doesn't bear that out.
    I'm not talking about Dungeons and Dragons stats.
    Blue's wisdom and green's wisdom are very different. Green's wisdom is more of a druidic wisdom. You could say spiritual. Green cares about preserving and keeping balance, not reaching some vision of a perfect world. It cares about what is more than it cares about what ought to be.
    Green has the second most card draw of any color in the game. And unlike black it doesn't need to sacrifice anything to get it.

    Reclaim effects are green, that is wisdom, and very much embodies learning from the past.


    Except that the green-black relationship is consistently portrayed as one where green is in favour of death as part of the natural cycle, and only opposed to unnatural death. To quote, "Green sees death for what it is: a key component in the great circle of life. Black sees it as a weapon, and through misuse of it threatens the very system green cares most about."
    Being for life does not mean avoiding death at all cost. If anything, it is black that avoids death, by using necromancy.
    Green values life, black doesn't. And it doesn't just value things being alive as in technically alive, but also as in thriving.


    Colourless is not only the colour identity of the eldrazi, but also of mindless automata, random swords and axes, and literal mountains. It's hard to get more passive than that.
    But it is also the eldrazi, that is my point. Mindless automatons are colorless because they have no goals. Eldrazi have goals, and those goals are the most colorless goal of all, and very far from passive.
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