Erfworld 81, page 75

[jindra34]

This comic is a little more confusing that OOTS but

Spoiler

Show

is anyone else thinking that stanley broke the link as purple is his son and he plans to escape on dragons leaving everyone else there as fodder?

Spoiler

Show

Absolutely not, as i cannot see who would then be stanley's wife?

[bibbob147]

hmm if units are sculpted,how do they continue the family name?

[Bongos]

Foolamancer looks like...............Jack Nicolson!

....and it's Misty on the ground, mainly because as a character we know about it's the only one we'd care about...now we are worried for her because we have been introduced to her.

[SteveMB]

Foolamancer looks like...............Jack Nicolson!

Heh -- "Snap out of it, you joker!"

Another thing that could go wrong occurs to me -- Sizemore warned Parson that breaking the 'mancer link might "leave them useless" (presumably meaning that the individual 'mancers would lose all their powers, not just the augmentations resulting from the link).

[Lamech]

Perhaps useless just means that the mancer would go catotonic or insane, not powerless. Of course, that could make an insane mancer very dangerous.

[Squall83]

I also belive Misty is alive. Her robes back then weren't exactly bright orange and they weren't hodded and so on (as mentioned before).

Furthermore I believe that the LOOKamancer has to look at the world outside to perceive the information for everyone else, hence Misty is in the middle.

3rd point:
What would make a better plot?
a) Some unknown thinkamancer joining the plot?
b) Misty being released from the link and thus being able to talk to Parson freely? :)

[Eten]

I also belive Misty is alive. Her robes back then weren't exactly bright orange and they weren't hodded and so on (as mentioned before).

Furthermore I believe that the LOOKamancer has to look at the world outside to perceive the information for everyone else, hence Misty is in the middle.

3rd point:
What would make a better plot?
a) Some unknown thinkamancer joining the plot?
b) Misty being released from the link and thus being able to talk to Parson freely? :)

Of course Misty is alive.
Anyway, thinkamancer has to be the middle because they act as the link. The middle person repeatedly has shown as acting as the link between the three of them. Look at the blue beams going from the gray robed middle persons hands to the other two's heads in one of the early images of them. Gray robed and always with breasts- it's a female thinkamancer we haven't been introduced to yet, Misty is on the floor, she's likely to be catatonic, weak or damaged... any number of things, but very likely not dead.

[fendrin]

Well, one thing we now know for sure: breaking the link is not a normal nightly activity.

I like the fact that Sizemore is going out of his way to try and protect Parson. i doubt he would do the same for Stanley.

Though, as Parson said, it's not really fair to Bogroll.

[the_tick_rules]

what was the top half of the strip about?

[rosebud]

The first pages of unsupported presuppositions of Misty's demise and discussions of her mammary glands were somewhat irksome.

Anyhow, provided she lives, even if knocked out, she'll heal at dawn like everyone other unit does (unless there are as yet unmentioned rules that prevent it).

As for Stanley, knocking him off seems, um, foolish, but just relax and see what unfolds.

As for the fool, shouldn't a foolmancer be a jester? Spouting truth yet sounding like ... a fool?

I must say I really like Bogroll. I don't understand Sizemore, though. He's not known for his assertedness nor his cowardess. He faced the situation with calm before. Why the active avoidance now?

More important, how can Parson actively disobey Stanley's orders? Did something in the spell change or the circumstances of Stanley controlling him that makes this possible? Or is this the "if it will lead to your destruction" out clause or some similar reading of the constraints?

[SteveMB]

what was the top half of the strip about?

After breaking the Trimancer link, one of the Eyemancers (probably the Foolamancer, as hinted by his dialog being quotes from King Lear's Fool) appears to be (at best) seriously disoriented or (at worst) insane. Stanley is trying to snap him out of it, presumably so he can do some job (veiling?).

Anyhow, provided she lives, even if knocked out, she'll heal at dawn like everyone other unit does (unless there are as yet unmentioned rules that prevent it).

Depending on what the exact trigger for Jillian's first breakdown was, it may be that mental trauma does not necessarily heal at the start of the turn. I suppose we'll know soon enough when Wanda either does or does not recover when Stanley's turn starts. (Note that Sizemore doesn't know what to expect in that regard....)

As for the fool, shouldn't a foolmancer be a jester? Spouting truth yet sounding like ... a fool?

That analogy doesn't seem all that apt for normally functional Foolamancers. That said, the parallels to King Lear and Stanley's current situation (e.g. the ruler rejecting his loyal supporters out of pique and ending up isolated) are interesting.

I must say I really like Bogroll. I don't understand Sizemore, though. He's not known for his assertedness nor his cowardess. He faced the situation with calm before. Why the active avoidance now?

I wouldn't call it active avoidance, exactly. Letting Parson sleep through the turn is a fairly passive way of sidestepping the problem, and strikes me as in character for Sizemore. Admittedly, it requires confronting Bogroll... but, after all, it's Bogroll; how confrontational is that, really?

More important, how can Parson actively disobey Stanley's orders? Did something in the spell change or the circumstances of Stanley controlling him that makes this possible? Or is this the "if it will lead to your destruction" out clause or some similar reading of the constraints?

Strictly speaking, Stanley did not order Parson (or Wanda or Sizemore) to hide or to remain inactive -- he said that he didn't want to see them and that if they should stay out of his sight if they wanted to live.

[Lord Zentei]

'Son'? Did i read that right?

Was it Misty on the floor, or the third caster? If Misty is the foolmancer, can we guess what Stanleys 'son' is?

And uh, if units are built...how do they have family ties?

It's not a familial relation, necessarily. Stanley uses "son" at Parson here.

It's a form of address - like "dude" - only to a younger person or a person of lower rank.

[charles]

Well, Parson thought the answer would lie in magic. The Army is at the stronghold now anyway so they can see it all below them.

Now Parson has access to a croakamancer, dirtomancer, foolamancer and lookamancer.

We've seen physical tactics so it'll be a good change to see some magic put to use.

[R.I.P. Manpower]

Well I'm not really sure what happened in this comic..nothing much as far as I can tell...though it seems like Parson has a plan which will be going against Stanley's orders!

[SteveD]

It's not a familial relation, necessarily. Stanley uses "son" at Parson here.

It's a form of address - like "dude" - only to a younger person or a person of lower rank.

Yeah, a few people have pointed that out already. It still seems kinda weird though, condescending and suggesting familiarity where none exists.

Weird american semantics aside, can we assume that the Knights will be mounted on the B Dwagons, or will they be unable to make it back to the keep and carry Stanley away in one round? The B dwagons had the lowest move, after all.

The other thing I wonder about is Misty; she could well be dead. It might be that the writers want to make it clear she is not an important character, only a means of explaining linking for the rest of the story.

[chorpler]

That grey-robed woman in the middle of the three looks way too tall, with breasts much too large, to possibly be Misty. The orange-robed person looks the right size.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Hmmm... Two things.

The trimancers remind me of the "PreCogs" in "Minority Report." I wonder if that means anything...

Secondly, there seems to be a bit of chaos when you unlink the trimancers. Yet, Misty was able to unlink herself semi-at-will to help Parson...

There seems to be a bit of internal inconsistancy to this strip. I already had an extended rant about Jillian PWNZORing the dwagons, now this.

I'm getting frustrated with this story. At first, I didn't know where it was going, but I decided to give it a chance. Over time it began to develop an internal flow, and became pretty interesting. Now I'm finding myself getting annoyed with it, and I'm not sure if it's me, or the strip.

Am I the only one seeing this?

[SteveMB]

Secondly, there seems to be a bit of chaos when you unlink the trimancers. Yet, Misty was able to unlink herself semi-at-will to help Parson...

Misty wasn't unlinked then. The link wasn't actively in use, which presumably is why she was able to kinda sorta act as an individual, but it was still in place.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Misty wasn't unlinked then. The link wasn't actively in use, which presumably is why she was able to kinda sorta act as an individual, but it was still in place.

Maybe. Still, it might have been made a bit more clear. When I think "Link" I'm thinking linked to each other and the table, but completely subsumed to the spell. Especially once I saw the chains around the wrists of the three "mancers" here:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0060.html
and here
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0078.html

When Misty helped, I thought she was "off" for the evening.

The story seems to becoming more, not less, confusing by the week.

[SteveMB]

Ultimately, Lear passed through the storm and returned, briefly, to a sort of resigned, transcendent rationality before passing on to the next life. If so, what does this mean should Stanley's course remain parallel to that stage? What transcendence shall the Tool obtain, before he either a) croaks, or b) abandons the metaphor?

Lear had three daughters. Two betrayed him and one remained loyal. If I REALLY want to stretch the metaphor, who is our 'Cordelia?' Our loyal 'daughter?' I think at this point it is Parson. Wanda is catatonic, and Sizemore is resigned to defeat. Only Parson is still putting the best interests of the kingdom before personal matters.

Even before Wanda's breakdown, it's an open question how much she was helping the Tool out of loyalty and how much because it served her own agenda. (Actually, I think there's more of the former than one might assume, given her manipulative nature, and that failing in front of Stanley was a contributing factor to her collapse... but I digress.)

Following that line of thought, part of Lear's final insight was into how the people who had seemed to be his friends were manipulating him ("...they flatter'd me like a dog, and told me I had white hairs on my chin, before the black ones were there"). Might Stanley come to a similar conclusion vis-a-vis Wanda?

Maybe. Still, it might have been made a bit more clear.

I thought it was pretty clear when Sizemore asked if the Eyemancers was able to link up that morning and then warned Parson about what could have happened if he'd broken the link spell by interacting with Misty as an individual. When Parson talked to Misty, the link was "turned off" but not broken. Stanley ordered the Eyemancers to break their link, which has rather more serious results than simply turning it off for the night.

[Rhialto the Marvellous]

Someone mentioned it briefly, but the discussion so far seems to be skipping over a significant question? Why is Stanley the Self-Centered wasting time talking to a broken-minded Foolamancer, and pulling him somewhere by the sleeve? One thing we know about foolamancers from this strip is you need one in a stack to veil it. Stanley may be running, but I suspect more likely he is planning some veiled commando activity, with Sonny and the painted knights.

This may be the real reason he had the trimancers break the link: he needed one of them for something more important (by his estimation). By taking the foolamancer out of the trimancer link, unfortunately, he leaves Parson et al. blind. But apparently Stanley's side moves before Ansom's, so the coalition units should still be where they were. And, we don't know the parameters of lookamancy; even if the map board is inoperative, maybe Misty can still do some scrying and see what's going on in the field.

I'm not 100% clear about the mechanics of controlling units---it appears that orders must be conveyed either physically or magically to a unit---Ansom has to send messages or tell subordinate commanders what to do. Team Stanley's long-range control seems to be a function of the trimancer board. Stanley left the thinkamancer behind, so if she is not too traumatized by the breaking of the link, maybe Parson can still send orders to units in the field, without having to fly out on a dwagon himself.

Another food-for-thought question: is Ansom the overall commander of his side, or is he just a (senior) field commander under the ultimate command of a king or something back somewhere else? In other words, is Ansom a closer analog of Stanley, or Parson?

[nohaybanda]

Regarding this discussion, please take a look at http://www.grand-illusions.com/square.htm. The color may actually be a shade of brown (you can check using the eyedropper in Photoshop) but perceived as orange due to the dark background.

I just want to point this out for those of you that are basing that it was Misty that collapsed because she is "wearing an orange robe when she met Parson".

She wasn't.

The robe she was wearing in her first named appearance was brown: it was beige at the lightest and taupe at the darkest. The colors on the page are richer than the ones on Wikipedia, but they are the same colors. The point of this is: taupe and beige are shades of what? Brown.

Aside from "Misty is in orange because the Thinkamancer must be in the middle" is there any other evidence that could support Misty being the orange robed Eyemancer?

Look through them all it seems pretty clear that she is wearing orange, and if you doubt it go into photoshop and shift the colors so the backgrounds are the same color.

[SteveMB]

Another food-for-thought question: is Ansom the overall commander of his side, or is he just a (senior) field commander under the ultimate command of a king or something back somewhere else? In other words, is Ansom a closer analog of Stanley, or Parson?

The cast page identifies Ansom as Chief Warlord to King Slately. However, the issue of his having a superior back home has never affected the plot, or even been so much as mentioned in the story itself.

[Eten]

Hmmm... Two things.

The trimancers remind me of the "PreCogs" in "Minority Report." I wonder if that means anything...

Secondly, there seems to be a bit of chaos when you unlink the trimancers. Yet, Misty was able to unlink herself semi-at-will to help Parson...

There seems to be a bit of internal inconsistancy to this strip. I already had an extended rant about Jillian PWNZORing the dwagons, now this.

I'm getting frustrated with this story. At first, I didn't know where it was going, but I decided to give it a chance. Over time it began to develop an internal flow, and became pretty interesting. Now I'm finding myself getting annoyed with it, and I'm not sure if it's me, or the strip.

Am I the only one seeing this?

Well, I don't know. What are you seeing?

[Raiser Blade]

Hmmm this gives me plenty to think about.

[Squall83]

Of course Misty is alive.
Anyway, thinkamancer has to be the middle because they act as the link. The middle person repeatedly has shown as acting as the link between the three of them. Look at the blue beams going from the gray robed middle persons hands to the other two's heads in one of the early images of them. Gray robed and always with breasts- it's a female thinkamancer we haven't been introduced to yet, Misty is on the floor, she's likely to be catatonic, weak or damaged... any number of things, but very likely not dead.

Good point, but you can't be entirely sure about the direction in which the energy of the blue beams flows. Maybe the 2 outer mancers subsume to the will of the lookamancer and give him their mind power (or the lookamancer uses his hands to absorb their mind power) so the lookamancer is able to cast this highly complicated spell to light the table.

So if it had to be a lookamancer to cast the spell to light the table it'd have to be Misty.
About her size: The 2 outer mancers are about the same size (see page 72) hence Misty is at least 2 heads bigger than Stanley which is something I didn't expect from her first appearance on page fifty-something. That's why I wouldn't rely on saying "the one in the middle is too tall to be Misty" because imho all 3 are too tall.

But since both sides in this discussion have interesting arguments, Rob and Jamie might as well proove me wrong. :)

[Arkenputtyknife]

Good point, but you can't be entirely sure about the direction in which the energy of the blue beams flows. Maybe the 2 outer mancers subsume to the will of the lookamancer and give him their mind power (or the lookamancer uses his hands to absorb their mind power) so the lookamancer is able to cast this highly complicated spell to light the table.

So if it had to be a lookamancer to cast the spell to light the table it'd have to be Misty.

I don't think that's right.

The 3 components of the trimancer are:

(a) A Lookamancer: someone who can see remotely; an information-gatherer.

(b) A Thinkamancer. I'm not sure what a Thinkamancer does, but analogy with Thinkagram suggests it's someone who can send information — a telepath.

(c) A Foolamancer: someone who fools others, presumably by creating illusions.

If that's the case, then the trimancer would probably operate thus: the Lookamancer monitors the battlefield, the Thinkamancer takes the information from her mind and transmits it to the Foolamancer, who generates the real-time tactical display.

Thus it's not the Lookamancer in control of the others, but all three working together as a unit. Or, if you prefer, the Lookamancer is the transmission joining Misty's engine to the Foolamancer's wheels. Last time I checked, the transmission wasn't in control of my car…

Of course Misty is alive.

There's no “of course” about it (those who are overly-beloved of tropes and formulas might like to recall Anyone Can Die), although I agree that the fallen Mancer is probably Misty (case not proven, but it seems likely, especially considering she was the one Parson interfered with), and she's probably not dead. The reason I think that is that Parson appears to be concerned about the people he's involved with, and that would give him one more thing to be concerned about.

But if she is dead, then it'll be something for him to rage over, and possibly a source of motivation for him to strike back at Stanley later.

[SteveMB]

I don't think that's right.

The 3 components of the trimancer are:

(a) A Lookamancer: someone who can see remotely; an information-gatherer.

(b) A Thinkamancer. I'm not sure what a Thinkamancer does, but analogy with Thinkagram suggests it's someone who can send information — a telepath.

(c) A Foolamancer: someone who fools others, presumably by creating illusions.

If that's the case, then the trimancer would probably operate thus: the Lookamancer monitors the battlefield, the Thinkamancer takes the information from her mind and transmits it to the Foolamancer, who generates the real-time tactical display.

Thus it's not the Lookamancer in control of the others, but all three working together as a unit. Or, if you prefer, the Lookamancer is the transmission joining Misty's engine to the Foolamancer's wheels. Last time I checked, the transmission wasn't in control of my car…

Linking a set of mancers together is "a trick that only Thinkamancers can perform". That indicates that the Thinkamancer is the key to the link.

In this case, the Thinkamancer apparently performs an actual function (relaying orders to field units and reports to Stanley when he's not in the room) in addition to creating and maintaining the link.

[Arkenputtyknife]

Linking a set of mancers together is "a trick that only Thinkamancers can perform". That indicates that the Thinkamancer is the key to the link.

Yes. Think about my model: the Thinkamancer is the link. Not the whole of the spell, not the controller of the group.

In this case, the Thinkamancer apparently performs an actual function (relaying orders to field units and reports to Stanley when he's not in the room) in addition to creating and maintaining the link.

The Archons made it possible for Jillian to send a message to Ansom, and (for a substantial fee) can set up a two-way conversation. Given that they don't appear to be under the same kind of mind-destroying link that the Trimancers were under, sending information appears to be a basic Thinkamancer function, and not a consequence of the trimancer setup. However, the Thinkamancer would need Misty's input to send a battle report to Stanley.

[Iberiel]

Get well soon, Misty! <3