Results 241 to 270 of 435
-
2019-06-10, 07:40 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1166 - The Discussion Thread
No he doesn't? He says when talking to Haley about it in #666:
"I remember the clouds, and my father, and a glowing ball of light. And I remember what I saw when I was floating around down here."
Given that the "glowing ball of light" introduced himself to Roy while they were still on the clouds, you'd think he'd have remembered that being his archon if he remembered that part of things clearly. You'd also think he would have mentioned the Blood Oath interview, which he does not.
-
2019-06-10, 08:04 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2018
Re: OOTS #1166 - The Discussion Thread
That quote you used is followed up by another sentence which clarifies things a bit further:
"But beyond the Big Golden Gate... it's all a blur. A big happy fulfilling blur, but still."
Everything beyond the golden gate lacks detail, but he phrases it as a contrast in that everything before the golden gate is remembered. And yes he called the archon a glowing ball of light and didn't mention the Blood Oath but you could find explanations for that which don't leave you to wonder why he'd specify that everything beyond the golden gate was a blur if everything beforehand was hazy as well.
Maybe he called the archon a glowing ball of light because that's what the archon is. Maybe he expected Haley to have questions if he called it the archon because archon isn't actually a very descriptive term so he just went with the straightforward approach. Maybe the archon just isn't that important. Maybe he didn't mention the Blood Oath since it doesn't affect him as long as he just keeps at it. Maybe he expects the others to start worrying if they hear about how it could have costed Roy his eternal rest. Maybe he's concerned they might start feeling obligated to follow him rather than doing it because they believe it's right. Maybe, once more, the Blood Oath would lead to more questions while once again not being that important (as long as he keeps at it). Or maybe he was just rattling off a quick description and wasn't planning to go into full detail.
All of them are maybes but they all fit the narrative because leaving out details and using simple descriptions for things and all that stuff is entirely normal for people to do. It doesn't require some weighty motivation either, people leave out details and information all the time. Hell, it could even be that at the moment of describing his stay in the waiting room the name of the glowing ball of light evaded him without it meaning he couldn't remember anything of importance up there.
EDIT: Oh, another one, maybe he HAS talked about the archon and the Blood Oath in more detail to his friends, but off screen since not every conversation is written down.Last edited by Worldsong; 2019-06-10 at 08:07 AM.
-
2019-06-10, 08:07 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2017
- Location
- France
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1166 - The Discussion Thread
Interview: on the clouds, which he remembers.
Archon: not on the clouds.
Everything before the gates he remembers, everything after he is unclear but he knows there was a glowing ball of light and he remembered the Spellsplinter.Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
-
2019-06-10, 09:15 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
- Location
- USA
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1166 - The Discussion Thread
It occurrs to me that it must be extra nice for Green Dwarf and his "family", since the first time he went to Hel. He got his death right this time around, though. (I think he was one of the resurrected ones. Correct me if I'm wrong.)
Originally Posted by Eliezer Yudkowsky
-
2019-06-10, 09:35 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2015
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1166 - The Discussion Thread
Archon: on the clouds.
ungelic is us
-
2019-06-10, 09:35 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2017
- Location
- France
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1166 - The Discussion Thread
You mean Kandro?
Yes he is.
Thirden became a successful bard, Shira owns mines, Logann's mother had children, Hoskin married and Kandro got his do-over.
Edit:
So Roy remembers knowing a glowing ball, but not who that was. Makes sense to me.Last edited by Fyraltari; 2019-06-10 at 09:36 AM.
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
-
2019-06-10, 12:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2019
- Location
- Magrathea
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1166 - The Discussion Thread
Shirra works in a silver mine does not necessarily own it, though honestly its not much of a stretch to say that shes an overseer or possibly actually runs the whole thing.
All of them got a second chance at life and managed to do well with it though, and that's what matters.
Kandro did something a bit more important but I can't recall what.An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.
See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.
Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
Green is serious talk about hypothetical
Blue is irony and sarcasm
"I think, therefore I am,
I walk, therefore I stand,
I sleep, therefore I dream;
I joke, therefore I meme."
-Squire Doodad
-
2019-06-10, 01:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1166 - The Discussion Thread
Yes to both of those.
In fact, VL seems to be made to emphasize just how well *internally* a group of otherwise totally rotten evil people can be.
People bring up Tarquin and Malack's discussion - but I would compare this to Roy and Elan......I'd think the former have a more healthy relationship.
Yes, Tarquin is REALLY quick to get over Malack's death, but then I remember Roy's reaction to Elan being abducted....
For me, VL's internal relations remind me VERY MUCH of the old Giant quote about the two endbosses.
Just want to say that
"soften the awfulness" is quite the understatement! Not only do the OotS people KNOW there IS an afterlife, it even contains stuff a lot of RL people would gladly switch their actual RL for, I'd think.
That really changes the discussion more than people seem acknowledge, even if the author complains that Roy still finds death bad despite how pleasant the afterlife is.
A paradise after death REALLY makes death less unpleasant.
That's the whole point of a paradise after death, whether that's a house with your mother and your little brother or a card game and beer with Thor.Boytoy of the -Fan-Club
What? It's not my fault we don't get a good-aligned female paragon of promiscuity!
I heard Blue is the color of irony on the internet.
I once fought against a dozen people defending a lady - until the mods took me down in the end.
Want to see my prison tatoo?
*Branded for double posting*
Sometimes, being bad feels so good.
-
2019-06-10, 01:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1166 - The Discussion Thread
Which has some telling implications, actually. All they needed to get out of a life in the mines was a kick in the pants - or in other words, sufficient will? There wasn't anything keeping them there? No lack of capital that prevented them pursuing a life of idle investment or eclectic education, for instance? It can't be that dwarven society has generous social support. Sigdi subsists on a meager pension, and the Firehelms anticipate being tossed out on the street.
-
2019-06-10, 01:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2018
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1166 - The Discussion Thread
Comparing Tarquin and Malack's relationship to Roy and Elan's doesn't actually make sense for this. Tarquin and Malack, despite their difference were supposed to be best friends. Roy, very clearly, disliked Elan when he abandoned him, and even now they aren't what I would call "best friends." The two relationships aren't framed in the same way for the comparison to be meaningful.
If you did want to do that, Roy and Durkon strike me as the better compare and contrast, and they come out looking better than Tarquin and Malack from every angle that I can see.Last edited by Rrmcklin; 2019-06-10 at 02:00 PM.
I'd just like to point out that saying that something unsupported is the case unless someone else can prove that it is not is an utter failure of logic. - Kish
-
2019-06-10, 02:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2017
- Location
- France
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1166 - The Discussion Thread
I don't think Shirra could have sued the pants of the company without having an accident first. The money from that probably helped the others, too.
EDIT: Also, these being dwarves therés a good chance that miner is actually a well-respected middle-class job.
Furthermore, Logann’s mom and Hoskin only wanted to start families, they may still be miners. Squeaky had dropped off of Bard’s school presumably due to lack of moral investment, so a kick in the guts would probably be just what he needed (higher education (if Bard’s school counts as that) does not actually need to be stupidly expensive).
I’m not sure if Kandro got a job as a warrior or anything.
Also Hoskin used a pick in the current comic which lend credence to him still being a miner.Last edited by Fyraltari; 2019-06-10 at 02:23 PM.
-
2019-06-10, 02:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
Re: OOTS #1166 - The Discussion Thread
We don't know what's up with Squeaky and bard camp. Maybe he needed a scholarship as a nontrad.
Whatsername (seriously, Rich, give us a name please) wanted to start a family. Not sure if that just means getting serious with someone she was already seeing or needing a friend to play matchmaker. Probably not a lot of money involved either way.
Hoskin had the most trouble it seems, as he had to figure out finding a woman who wanted to get married.
And Kandro just needed to get down the old weapons and practice more, so as to be ready when an opportunity came up (or down, as the case may be).
-
2019-06-10, 02:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1166 - The Discussion Thread
Minimizing the obstacles that a shift in the mines, which could probably go up to 14 hours, six days per week, places in front of any of these goals is quite in line with the overall message that all anyone needs to do to get out of a life of drudgery is sufficient will.
-
2019-06-10, 02:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2015
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1166 - The Discussion Thread
I think the most telling aspect of Tarquin's relationship with Malack wasn't that the he got over his death so quickly. That I could understand - hey, people have different reactions and mourn the way they need to, right? No, the defining moment of that relationship for me was when Tarquin told Malack to shut up about his spawn because he was sick of hearing about it.
Frankly, I think Malack must have been quite starved for affection if he put up with THAT, but I don't want to give Luna any ideas.Last edited by hroşila; 2019-06-10 at 02:31 PM.
ungelic is us
-
2019-06-10, 02:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2017
- Location
- France
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1166 - The Discussion Thread
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
-
2019-06-10, 02:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
Re: OOTS #1166 - The Discussion Thread
Nah. I just laid out the steps they had to take. Since we know nothing about dwarven lifestyles, we don't really know what other factors are involved. I would not be surprised if there's a militia-drill day where Kandro could have been training, for instance.
-
2019-06-10, 02:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Gender
-
2019-06-10, 02:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Location
- Oregon, USA
Re: OOTS #1166 - The Discussion Thread
Last edited by Jasdoif; 2019-06-10 at 02:43 PM.
FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
-
2019-06-10, 02:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Gender
-
2019-06-10, 02:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2017
- Location
- France
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1166 - The Discussion Thread
They live in subterranean countries. I think that particular quirk would change their outlook on mining. Also Durkon became a miner, quit (or was fired) because he hadn’t much talent for it and became a Cleric despite Sigdi’s and his wealth level. So I don’t think it’s that hard to quit mining. And three of the five might very well still be miners (well, two now).
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
-
2019-06-10, 02:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Location
- Oregon, USA
Re: OOTS #1166 - The Discussion Thread
FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
-
2019-06-10, 02:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1166 - The Discussion Thread
It demonstrably has not - it's still a low-status job and industrial accidents are not considered honorable deaths. The material incentives behind why mining takes place, and thus the prevailing practices in the industry, aren't all that unfamiliar either.
Also Durkon became a miner, quit (or was fired) because he hadn’t much talent for it and became a Cleric despite Sigdi’s and his wealth level. So I don’t think it’s that hard to quit mining.
(An aside: Mr. Burlew is an American and as such probably assumes an at-will employment regime for every profession. It is, in this regime, as easy to quit any job as saying "I quit." The reality is, of course, more complicated even in at-will regimes, and any number incentives pressure people into staying in jobs they might not otherwise stay in.)Last edited by zimmerwald1915; 2019-06-10 at 02:58 PM.
-
2019-06-10, 02:56 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2018
-
2019-06-10, 03:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2015
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1166 - The Discussion Thread
I disagree, because Malack's criticism was "Stop putting your children above mine" and Tarquin continued to do just that while lying to Malack's face about it. Tarquin didn't really accept his criticism, he simply defused the situation.
Which is telling in itself, of course, but in a negative way, and not as much as the other incident.Last edited by hroşila; 2019-06-10 at 03:01 PM.
ungelic is us
-
2019-06-10, 03:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2017
- Location
- France
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1166 - The Discussion Thread
[Citation needed]
How is this relevant?
What's your basis for this assertion?
How do you know any of them needed the money?
Good point.
We both know Sigdi would have ripped Shirra's eyes out of her head if that were the case.
He is also the one who decides how this universe works, so...Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
-
2019-06-10, 03:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1166 - The Discussion Thread
Who is more starving for affection:
Elan for Roy's
or
Malack for Tarquin's
?
Given how Burlew wrote an article how evil people can still be genuine friends and how people are wrong thinking that evil people will automatically betray each other, the way VL seems to work with each other seem to underline that idea to me.
This was even commented on by Sabine and Quarr - that evil people can discuss their differences very reasonably.
To me, this made Tarquin and his team a much more "real" antagonist than Xykon and RC, for example, even though they might be more powerful in D&D terms.Last edited by Mightymosy; 2019-06-10 at 03:11 PM.
-
2019-06-10, 03:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1166 - The Discussion Thread
It's relevant to proving the former point, to which you said "citation needed." Soldiering is a high-status profession, which we know because combat deaths are honorable deaths and because soldiers are given a pension. We know by contrast that deaths in the mine are not honorable deaths, and can infer from this that mining is a low-status profession.
What's your basis for this assertion?
Dwarves might have an added incentive of creating for themselves more living space, but 1) the Supper Club don't seem to have been doing that work, since a tunnel people were meant to live in long-term would have had better attention paid to its ventilation and 2) the Firehelms used the term "cave" for their home and not "mine," so the term for doing the work would probably be something other than "mining" as well. We use the term "boring" or "construction" for tunnel-making.
How do you know any of them needed the money?
We both know Sigdi would have ripped Shirra's eyes out of her head if that were the case.Last edited by zimmerwald1915; 2019-06-10 at 03:12 PM.
-
2019-06-10, 03:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2017
- Location
- France
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1166 - The Discussion Thread
That's asinine. Honorable death has to do with the way you die, not your profession. Dying accidentally is not dying with honor wether you are a miner or a soldier.
There's also creating roads, ventilation chimneys, light sources and whatever else actually living 24/7/12 underground requires. Also ventialtion doesn't save you when you stumble unto a pocket of poison gas. And anyway they were mining copper.
I would also like to know your basis for the whole "the goal of the industry is the same so the pravailing practices are the same".
Let me rephrase, "How do you know they didn't have other job opportunities?
How many mamals have two livers? How many were designed by gods to live underground and fit an archetype?
And even then, maybe dying of rock dust poisining as a miner counts as an honorable death.
We both know Durkon wouldn't lie to Sigdi. Also, Durkon wasn't maimed, what are you talking about?Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
-
2019-06-10, 03:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2018
-
2019-06-10, 03:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2017
- Location
- France
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1166 - The Discussion Thread
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.