Exalted: What's it like?

[Man_Over_Game]

I've heard a lot of good things about Exalted, read up on some reviews, but I'm interested to know what you guys have to say about it.

Where does it shine? Where does it fail? And how does it compare to other TTRPG systems (WoD, DnD 3.5/5e, etc)? And what are the differences between each edition?

[Max_Killjoy]

I've heard a lot of good things about Exalted, read up on some reviews, but I'm interested to know what you guys have to say about it.

Where does it shine? Where does it fail? And how does it compare to other TTRPG systems (WoD, DnD 3.5/5e, etc)? And what are the differences between each edition?

Imagine superhero / demigod power levels for all PCs, total gonzo powers and combat, and White Wolf's complete lack of understanding of any the concept of balance.

[Morty]

I'm only really familiar with the third edition, so I'll focus on this one. It's a crunch-heavy cinematic game focusing on portraying demigods of varying power (but also mortal heroes) in a fantasy world emulating myth and sword & sorcery fiction. It uses a variant of the Storyteller system White Wolf's systems did, but with its own spin.

Its strength is a variety of detailed rules and related superpowers. Combat is based on an "initiative" model where you build up momentum to deliver a decisive strike. But unlike D&D or other systems it actually gives superpowers to people who aren't warriors or sorcerers. You can play an impossibly skilled thief, diplomat, craftsman, sailor... or any combination of the above. Also unlike D&D, the game acknowledges the power level involved and expects players to make waves with their actions. But they're not the only movers and shakers, which the setting also reflects.

The game's weakness is arguably the same as its strength, namely that it's very crunchy. There's a tremendous amount of powers available even for a starting character, more if you decide to use sorcery of artifacts, or especially crafting. It can be daunting. Particularly in combat, where you let loose with all of that.

Previous editions were more or less the same thing, only with a different focus and major rules and setting issues that the third one aimed to rectify. Thus the infamous reputation of lack of concept of balance, which doesn't really apply anymore if you ask me.

[Friv]

I've heard a lot of good things about Exalted, read up on some reviews, but I'm interested to know what you guys have to say about it.

Where does it shine? Where does it fail? And how does it compare to other TTRPG systems (WoD, DnD 3.5/5e, etc)? And what are the differences between each edition?

So, this is one of those things where the differences between editions are fairly huge, especially in terms of where it shines and fails. As someone who played the game basically non-stop through all of 1e and 2e, here are my opinions.

Conceptually, Exalted has traditionally been one part World of Darkness-style tragedy, one part gonzo action-adventure, one part epic myth, and one part anime/Hong Kong wujia exploits.

The first edition of the game was closest to the WoD White Wolf roots, unsurprisingly, as the company's first foray into epic fantasy. The system was rocky, but essentially functional, especially if you were playing as either the Solar Exalted or the Terrestrial Exalted, which were the most common sorts. There was a lot of really interesting setting material, combat rarely broke entirely, and a lot of other systems were pretty much abstracted to "The ST decides". There was an absolute ton of material released for the line over the course of several years. It was great for giving you high-action fun with a side of dramatic seriousness, but you needed to fudge the rules from time to time to make things work, and the "elder problem" (where old, powerful characters should be able to instantly destroy the players and accomplish their goals, but don't because the plot says they don't) was pretty severe.

The second edition of Exalted runs like a sports car in a minefield. It is sleek, it is shiny, it is absolutely goddamn beautiful and then your whole group is tooling along at 150 mph and you drive over a mine in the rules and the whole bloody campaign explodes, and after that it doesn't matter how fast the car can go because everyone knows there are mines everywhere so they're just creeping along poking the ground every five feet. Some groups hit the mines within six months of release, others didn't hit them for years and so denied that they existed, and how much people love the game is generally based on how long it took one of their games to explode.

An attempt to fix the game with wholesale rules errata makes the problems much better at the cost of making everything infinitely more complicated and sort of shattering the mechanical functionality of a few of the Exalt types, especially Sidereals and Infernals. Also the "elder problem" was not as bad in terms of PCs surviving encounters with elders, but much worse in terms of elder invulnerability.

Third Edition fixed most of the balance problems and delivered an even more beautiful and shiny rules system, with the primary cost being dialing the complexity of the system into the stratosphere. The combat engine runs differently enough from any other RPG that it is not easy to learn, and just about every player needs to know the rules in-depth to be able to take part in the more complex parts of the game, which include combat and social interaction. This edition has also traditionally published at a glacial pace - the core came out four years ago, and only two of the core Exalt types are currently playable, with a third available for playtesters. At that rate, it'll be another ten years until the game is actually complete.

[lightningcat]

The second edition of Exalted runs like a sports car in a minefield. It is sleek, it is shiny, it is absolutely goddamn beautiful and then your whole group is tooling along at 150 mph and you drive over a mine in the rules and the whole bloody campaign explodes, and after that it doesn't matter how fast the car can go because everyone knows there are mines everywhere so they're just creeping along poking the ground every five feet. Some groups hit the mines within six months of release, others didn't hit them for years and so denied that they existed, and how much people love the game is generally based on how long it took one of their games to explode.

Oh the truth in this. My own group was used to games detonating long before we ever saw Exalted, so we knew how to ride the explosions. But the game could seriously degrade to rocket tag if you didn't have at least a discussion about it early on. Longest running game had no perfect defenses.

[SaurOps]

Imagine superhero / demigod power levels for all PCs, total gonzo powers and combat, and White Wolf's complete lack of understanding of any the concept of balance.

Exalted was leaps and bounds ahead of some other games, even some non-WW offerings, in balance. Unfortunately, it also had a few contributors here and there that seemed to believe that mechanics were inherently in the way no matter how they were designed, leading to a conscious refusal to write rules that worked or engaged with existing systems meant for the purpose. This is the source of a few of, though by no means all, the mines from 2e that Friv mentioned.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Third Edition fixed most of the balance problems and delivered an even more beautiful and shiny rules system, with the primary cost being dialing the complexity of the system into the stratosphere. The combat engine runs differently enough from any other RPG that it is not easy to learn, and just about every player needs to know the rules in-depth to be able to take part in the more complex parts of the game, which include combat and social interaction. This edition has also traditionally published at a glacial pace - the core came out four years ago, and only two of the core Exalt types are currently playable, with a third available for playtesters. At that rate, it'll be another ten years until the game is actually complete.

This is a pretty apt description of Exalted 3e. The mythology is, as always, very cool; pretty much every part of the world overview made me say "oh my god, I want to explore that;" and the core system engine is one of the single coolest rulesets I've gotten to play with... but characters start with 15 Charms. Charms chosen from enormous, enormous lists-- there are 20+ per skill, and 16 skills, and their effects range from "roll better" to the utterly baroque, and they build on each other and make skilltrees, and that's not even touching on Sorcery and Martial Arts and crafting and...

It's a lot, is what I'm saying. It's a game for rules-sluts. For nerds who enjoy putting hours into building and advancing their character, and who relish the chance to deploy complicated combos. But if you do, it's awesome. I only had the chance to play half a campaign, and despite a lot of... let's say stylistic differences with the GM, it was one of the coolest gaming experiences I've had.

[Lord Raziere]

okay so.

imagine the greatest fluff ever. and it promises everything, the most epic fantasy you can imagine, screw any dnd comedy nonsense, screw backsies this is supposed to tell a truly epic fantasy story and such, with all these mythical archetypes and whatnot and big emotions and larger than life people trying to solve real issues while having over the top combat and such.

but like, then you get to any of the three systems and its crunchier than a granola bar wrapped in peanuts, but not in a way thats well-built, but made in that white wolf way where they are like, expecting you to use these mechanics and somehow figure out their artsy, auteur intentions from them even when they work and when they don't it just....crashes and burns.

and your just left wondering when you are actually going to play a game and even when you do, you end up with some GM that has such different viewpoints about what the game is that you mis-communicate what you want at first, and it just doesn't work out, even though what limited time you had with your character you valued. and you feel this burning desire to play it at times even though the mechanics are...not really ideal to do so.

at least thats my experience with it. 3rd edition is best mechanically if you want to stick to the original thing, in my opinion. love to play more, especially if using a lighter system but....*shrug* I'm pretty sure its not gonna happen at this point.

[Morty]

This is a pretty apt description of Exalted 3e. The mythology is, as always, very cool; pretty much every part of the world overview made me say "oh my god, I want to explore that;" and the core system engine is one of the single coolest rulesets I've gotten to play with... but characters start with 15 Charms. Charms chosen from enormous, enormous lists-- there are 20+ per skill, and 16 skills, and their effects range from "roll better" to the utterly baroque, and they build on each other and make skilltrees, and that's not even touching on Sorcery and Martial Arts and crafting and...

It's a lot, is what I'm saying. It's a game for rules-sluts. For nerds who enjoy putting hours into building and advancing their character, and who relish the chance to deploy complicated combos. But if you do, it's awesome. I only had the chance to play half a campaign, and despite a lot of... let's say stylistic differences with the GM, it was one of the coolest gaming experiences I've had.

If I ever do run Exalted, I'll probably start with a mortal game to dip everyone's feet in. It's a lot easier without the giant pile of Charms looming above.

That being said, in my limited experience it's difficult to create a bad character in Exalted 3E, so if you just pick the Charms that sound right out of the trees you're interested in, you should do mostly fine. It's what I did in the Dragon-Blooded campaign I had.

[Particle_Man]

Another point, at least for the first two editions since I don’t know the third, is that your character is designed to have bouts of insanity now and then. This may not be everyone’s cup of tea, particularly if you hate losing control of your pc.

[Grod_The_Giant]

If I ever do run Exalted, I'll probably start with a mortal game to dip everyone's feet in. It's a lot easier without the giant pile of Charms looming above.

That being said, in my limited experience it's difficult to create a bad character in Exalted 3E, so if you just pick the Charms that sound right out of the trees you're interested in, you should do mostly fine. It's what I did in the Dragon-Blooded campaign I had.

Agreed. A session or two as pure mortals, another session or two with only Excellencies, and then start adding, like, a Charm a session. In my experience of that one 3e game, it wasn't so much that a newbie would make a bad character, but more like they'd forget their character--lose track of what Charms they have and when they can be used. Heck, I had to make a flowchart to keep track of what my Dawn could do when, and I'm as big a rules-slut as I've ever met.

[Morty]

Agreed. A session or two as pure mortals, another session or two with only Excellencies, and then start adding, like, a Charm a session. In my experience of that one 3e game, it wasn't so much that a newbie would make a bad character, but more like they'd forget their character--lose track of what Charms they have and when they can be used. Heck, I had to make a flowchart to keep track of what my Dawn could do when, and I'm as big a rules-slut as I've ever met.

I didn't really have that problem when I played, but then I didn't spend this many Charms on combat or any other area. I was playing an outcaste Dragon-Blooded monster-hunter specializing in Golden Janissary, Occult, Survival and some Medicine and miscellaneous skills on the side.

[Lord Raziere]

ugh, count me out of any "start as mortals" game. I'm not here for grittiness. I'm here for awesome martial arts and Exalts with weird powers. also? I don't do vanilla. so, I doubt any start as mortals game will work with me.

[Morty]

The purpose of a mortal game isn't grittiness. It's to let players get a proper handle on the system before dropping a mountain-sized charmset on them.

[Lord Raziere]

The purpose of a mortal game isn't grittiness. It's to let players get a proper handle on the system before dropping a mountain-sized charmset on them.

sorry I mistook. your right.

I just don't see how I'd enjoy it, I don't do vanilla concepts so I'd be trying to be as weird as a mortal can possibly be, and I'm not sure how'd I'd make that work. well possible "YET" added onto that because knowing how my mind it works, I somehow come up with a concept for something a few minutes after I admit I'm not sure how I'd do it.

[lightningcat]

The purpose of a mortal game isn't grittiness. It's to let players get a proper handle on the system before dropping a mountain-sized charmset on them.

Lorewise, the easiest way to start mortal and exalt later is doing a dragonblood game. The Dynasts have several schools for their kids, which also lets you dump exposition on players unfamiliar with the setting in a manner that makes sense.
You can do it with the other exalts, but it strains believability a bit more. Although, fate does get wrapped in knots around any exalt.

[Morty]

Lorewise, the easiest way to start mortal and exalt later is doing a dragonblood game. The Dynasts have several schools for their kids, which also lets you dump exposition on players unfamiliar with the setting in a manner that makes sense.
You can do it with the other exalts, but it strains believability a bit more. Although, fate does get wrapped in knots around any exalt.

If we wanted to seamlessly transition from a mortal game to the Exalted one, yeah. But I could also just have people create throwaway mortal characters or make some for them. Or have them create un-Exalted versions of their eventual Exalts and run a "non-canon" game with them. The game I would run would probably be a Lunar one, since some people I know have expressed interest.

[Beleriphon]

I've heard a lot of good things about Exalted, read up on some reviews, but I'm interested to know what you guys have to say about it.

Where does it shine? Where does it fail? And how does it compare to other TTRPG systems (WoD, DnD 3.5/5e, etc)? And what are the differences between each edition?

Its basically Hercules & Gilgamesh: Buddy Cop the RPG.

As for rules, more or less borrows White Wolf/Obsidian Path/Whatever the Hell/Storyteller system's of handful of d10s.

Each edition kind of sort of tries to fix the unbalance/not-really-functional things from the previous one, while at the same time introducing new things that don't work they way the designers seem to have intended.

[Mechalich]

imagine the greatest fluff ever. and it promises everything, the most epic fantasy you can imagine, screw any dnd comedy nonsense, screw backsies this is supposed to tell a truly epic fantasy story and such, with all these mythical archetypes and whatnot and big emotions and larger than life people trying to solve real issues while having over the top combat and such.

Exalted's fluff is actually terribad, while sounding awesome. It draws heavily from sources that are pretty much antithetical to cooperative gaming - most notably Tanith Lee's Tales from the Flat Earth anthologies (great, if rather creepy, fantasy, terrible idea for a gameplay structure) and the result was, in 1e and 2e generally pretty horrifying. 3e's fluff - insofar as any of it actually exists which is a highly limited thing - fixed some of those problems at the consequence at detonating over a decades worth of publication accretion and leaving every GM to rebuild the setting for themselves (on the 3e map, the average labeled location of several hundred miles from its nearest neighbor).

Exalted can work in the same way a long-running shounen anime can work - by constantly charging ahead into new fights and endlessly upping the ante, but minute you actually stop to try and think about the world it falls to pieces and turns out to be infested with aggressively cancerous grimderp.

[Lord Raziere]

Exalted's fluff is actually terribad, while sounding awesome. It draws heavily from sources that are pretty much antithetical to cooperative gaming - most notably Tanith Lee's Tales from the Flat Earth anthologies (great, if rather creepy, fantasy, terrible idea for a gameplay structure) and the result was, in 1e and 2e generally pretty horrifying. 3e's fluff - insofar as any of it actually exists which is a highly limited thing - fixed some of those problems at the consequence at detonating over a decades worth of publication accretion and leaving every GM to rebuild the setting for themselves (on the 3e map, the average labeled location of several hundred miles from its nearest neighbor).

Exalted can work in the same way a long-running shounen anime can work - by constantly charging ahead into new fights and endlessly upping the ante, but minute you actually stop to try and think about the world it falls to pieces and turns out to be infested with aggressively cancerous grimderp.

Haweh?

I don't know what to think of this post, because on one hand, I'm a big fan of shonen anime and my GMing style is to basically to keep charging into battle while satirizing or parodying anything that doesn't make sense then taking it seriously when I need to, because things are only funny until they are not.

on the other hand, I'm not sure if thats entirely accurate given what I read, but then again I'm someone who like, pre-purchases these books far in advance through the kickstarters and have at least book that most people aren't able to get, so I might be biased to how much information I have compared to someone who might still only have the corebook.

could like explain to me better how it doesn't make sense? I think I need deprogramming to get rid of years of White Wolf and rpg.net exalted views being argued at me. or at least material to better make something in Exalted funny or over the top awesome.

[Mechalich]

Haweh?

I don't know what to think of this post, because on one hand, I'm a big fan of shonen anime and my GMing style is to basically to keep charging into battle while satirizing or parodying anything that doesn't make sense then taking it seriously when I need to, because things are only funny until they are not.

on the other hand, I'm not sure if thats entirely accurate given what I read, but then again I'm someone who like, pre-purchases these books far in advance through the kickstarters and have at least book that most people aren't able to get, so I might be biased to how much information I have compared to someone who might still only have the corebook.

could like explain to me better how it doesn't make sense? I think I need deprogramming to get rid of years of White Wolf and rpg.net exalted views being argued at me. or at least material to better make something in Exalted funny or over the top awesome.

Well, I can certainly see how Exalted could work if you treat it like a joke, that's how a lot of shounen anime manage to work, so far as they actually do - One Piece, possibly the jokiest of all, is also the one best able to maintain quality, so that's probably demonstrative, but Exalted was never intended to play as a joke. Like most White-Wolf games it is relentlessly serious. In the original 1e and 2e runs of Exalted the PCs were powerless (it would take hundreds of XP for a new Solar to reliably defeat even reasonably elder Lunars, never mind the high end Sidereals or any of the Deathlords), the world was about to end in about thirty-five different ways, and literally everyone of importance was horrible (the Lunars were particularly bad - like that one elder who would roast and serve human babies at banquets but remained a respected member of the community). Even the Solars, as the nominal saviors were both supernaturally corrupt and also not possessed of any reason to actually be decent people - the Unconquered Sun just wanted you to be awesome, he didn't care anything about ethics. The 'good' ending for Exalted was that the Solars somehow defeat the unbeatable enemies they can't defeat without thousands of XP (and over a century to increase their essence to suitably high values) only to re-impose the horrors of the later First Age. This is all very much in tune with Tales from the Flat Earth, which is horror fantasy about a small group of invincible overgods messing with people because they get bored and they can.

Now, maybe, maybe, 3e is very different. I recall reading the fluff chapters of the 3e Corebook and being stunned mostly by how little fluff there actually was. The core book has less than 100 named locations and does not devote more than 500 words to describing any of them when each is the only location in an area roughly the size of France if not larger (I actually mentioned this issue during the development process and the devs responded by brushing off the gaping emptiness of their map with 'fill it in'). The base fluff is covered in mere handful of pages - which is really quite laughable compared to the literally hundreds of pages in the book devoted to endless charms. As presented, the setting simply isn't playable, and you either have to generate things yourself or port material over from earlier editions - which doesn't work because they changed the underlying metaphysics.

Perhaps someday 3e will be a complete game with a functional setting, but it isn't yet and give the glacial pace of publication (which isn't surprising from Onyx Path considering their business model) it may very well never be.

[CharonsHelper]

I've never played Exalted (I very much dislike other Storyteller systems - so I have no real desire to) but I've heard someone say that they now use Godbound to get their Exalted style gameplay fix without all of the broken/messy/opaque mechanics.

From people who actually know Exalted - does that work?

[Lord Raziere]

dude, no. I hate one piece. don't compare anything I do with it. One Piece is horrible. aside from that...

......thats all?

well the revelation that tales of the flat Earth is nothing but invincible god/demigods messing with people because they are bored kind of shines an incredibly disappointing light upon Exalted. the way other talked about it, it was supposed to be something special or whatever, but just....that? wow. just....really? nothing more? you sure? okay.

but the rest is just an opposing view to what I've heard from other Exalted fans:
that they prefer the fluff being cut down drastically, like the entire big thing aside from mechanical fixes, was to cut down what they consider too much information and to add more mystery to the world. like their big thing on both rpg.net and onyx path forums is their desire for less information while getting what they consider a more realistic, more accurate to history Creation, they did not want magitech, they didn't want the more horrible parts of the fluff that honestly no person in their right mind would want like the first two chapters of Infernals, that sort of stuff.

and that basically their view of Exalted is more game of thrones and anthropology major about it, I guess? I like getting another viewpoint that isn't their uh....sociological wanking I guess? but I'm just kind of disappointed thats all you had to say and I wish you could've done to tear down assumptions more, but that your view point, and its valid.

but still, thank you clearing the Tanith lee thing up, now I can safely not care about Tales of the Flat Earth, because it sounds incredibly disappointing and not worth reading.

though to be honest, when I read the books aside from the corebook, it doesn't feel like I'm getting less information than I did from 2e. this stuff is PACKED with information, and it seems more varied stuff than the 2e books, which often revisited the same places over and over again. also I'm comparing 3e's The Realm and the 2e Blessed Isle Compass books in page count:
Compass of Celestial Directions: Blessed Isle: 164 pages
The Realm: 192 pages.

the 2e version is shorter. and Compass Bless Isle? has a chapter dedicated, to statting out various creatures of the blessed isle. The Realm, does not. so if anything, we seem to be getting MORE fluff total, even though its not about places people have been to. so while your technically right about the corebook doing that (and even then the corebooks don't really seem all that different in the amount of information they give)....that kind of just what happens with a new edition. and the people who like the fluff cut down.....well bad news for them....from what I've read, there is actually more fluff than there was in 2e by certain measures. like, the fluff sections are still pretty big in any book.

so yeah, not sure how long the whole "cut down the fluff kudzu" thing the fandom was on about is going to last until the fluff kudzu starts growing back.

Edit: my experience with godbound is that I've yet to find a single active group to play Exalted with it. well technically one, but the game never happened, so I'm not counting that. people here just seem to play the actual setting and I'm not interested in that.

[Cluedrew]

Most of my knowledge of Exalted comes from reading Keychain of Creation. So I'm not exactly an expert because I don't know how much that was adapted from the original. But I generally got the impression that the exalted were definitely "people-ish". They were good or bad and a surprising number of them have no grand plan but just sort of wanted to get through life. I liked that version of it.

Also I think most role-playing game settings should be slightly dystopian. The bigger the problems in the setting the bigger things PCs can do in it. The, what was it called, elder problem aside that really feels like the idea of Exalted. Make the biggest waves you can. Whether it does that very well... I'll leave that to the experts.

[Lord Raziere]

Most of my knowledge of Exalted comes from reading Keychain of Creation. So I'm not exactly an expert because I don't know how much that was adapted from the original. But I generally got the impression that the exalted were definitely "people-ish". They were good or bad and a surprising number of them have no grand plan but just sort of wanted to get through life. I liked that version of it.

Also I think most role-playing game settings should be slightly dystopian. The bigger the problems in the setting the bigger things PCs can do in it. The, what was it called, elder problem aside that really feels like the idea of Exalted. Make the biggest waves you can. Whether it does that very well... I'll leave that to the experts.

as someone who is a keychain fan and got into the books through it....

while being people-ish is accurate, Keychain definitely has a lighter, more humorous portrayal of things than Exalted proper. so...you want to know more...prepare for some dissonance...

[Mechalich]

well the revelation that tales of the flat Earth is nothing but invincible god/demigods messing with people because they are bored kind of shines an incredibly disappointing light upon Exalted. the way other talked about it, it was supposed to be something special or whatever, but just....that? wow. just....really? nothing more? you sure? okay.

Tales from the Flat Earth is not intended to be a game. It's a horror series that examines a world in which there are active, interventionist deities, but they all happen to be evil - to the point of being specifically referred to as the Lords of Darkness. It's an extremely gothic tone for dark, twisted, fantasy that is genuinely both of those things (as opposed to many of the more modern productions that claim to be those things). The books are excellent literature and won awards for a reason, but they are not fun, they aren't meant to be fun, and using them as the basis for an over-the-top epic setting meant missing the point in an epic way.

that they prefer the fluff being cut down drastically, like the entire big thing aside from mechanical fixes, was to cut down what they consider too much information and to add more mystery to the world. like their big thing on both rpg.net and onyx path forums is their desire for less information while getting what they consider a more realistic, more accurate to history Creation, they did not want magitech, they didn't want the more horrible parts of the fluff that honestly no person in their right mind would want like the first two chapters of Infernals, that sort of stuff.

There was definitely a lot of stuff in 1e and 2e Exalted that did not need to be there and had a bunch of overly complicated mechanics attached to it, and getting rid of that stuff was a good idea. However, it was a matter of very selective editing, and 3e adds multiple new exalt types to the system, none of which have, in the core book, any concrete information attached to them at all.

and that basically their view of Exalted is more game of thrones and anthropology major about it, I guess? I like getting another viewpoint that isn't their uh....sociological wanking I guess? but I'm just kind of disappointed thats all you had to say and I wish you could've done to tear down assumptions more, but that your view point, and its valid.

The problem with trying to make the game more about the social systems and cultures is that the world is insufficiently detailed to allow you to produce that while at the same time being far too big to every successfully detail. 3e Creation is twice the size of Earth. There are huge portions of the 3e map - and by huge I mean areas roughly the size of Argentina - where there are no named locations. Filling them represents an endless amount of effort. I mean, I wrote 58,000 words attempting to functionally detail one such chunk. This is not something you can expect average GMs to do. It's not possible to talk about Creation as a whole, at least using the core book, because everything is hundreds of miles from everything else. For example - that giant southern desert 'The Burning Sands' that has four points in it, that's the size of Africa.

Additionally there's a central problem with Exalted is the power level of the characters. You can make these detailed chunks of Creation full of mystical places, weird peoples, demon cults, and everything else, and then a party of Solars can tear through and upend everything in an afternoon while moving at literally 100 mph. Intricate and complex world-building is mostly wasted effort when the party is a bunch of superheroes who can override it all on a whim.

though to be honest, when I read the books aside from the corebook, it doesn't feel like I'm getting less information than I did from 2e. this stuff is PACKED with information, and it seems more varied stuff than the 2e books, which often revisited the same places over and over again. also I'm comparing 3e's The Realm and the 2e Blessed Isle Compass books in page count:
Compass of Celestial Directions: Blessed Isle: 164 pages
The Realm: 192 pages.

the 2e version is shorter. and Compass Bless Isle? has a chapter dedicated, to statting out various creatures of the blessed isle. The Realm, does not. so if anything, we seem to be getting MORE fluff total, even though its not about places people have been to. so while your technically right about the corebook doing that (and even then the corebooks don't really seem all that different in the amount of information they give)....that kind of just what happens with a new edition. and the people who like the fluff cut down.....well bad news for them....from what I've read, there is actually more fluff than there was in 2e by certain measures. like, the fluff sections are still pretty big in any book.

There are only four actual books for 3e. The corebook, Dragon-blooded what fire hath wrought, arms of the chosen, and now the Realm. Eventually there may be more fluff, eventually, but 3e has a glacial publishing pace and needs to actually publish more books than 2e both because Creation is physically larger than it was before and because there are more Exalt types now. At the pace that Onyx Path is going it will take literally decades to detail to the world and the exalted to anything close to the level 2e was at, and that level of detail was woefully insufficient in and of itself.

I'm not saying that 3e isn't better than 1e or 2e, it certainly seems to be, but it represents taking a system that was being published by the world's second-largest tabletop company at the height of its publishing powers and swapping it out for a bunch of freelancers who are barely being paid and not reducing the setting to something more manageable instead.

[Lord Raziere]

oh, don't worry, I'm 100% with you on the whole glacial publishing pace thing. I said it on the rpg.net forums when 3e was still coming out, and I'll here, again: they should've gone rules lite, and made all five core Exalted splats playable in the core book.

like this is all high quality, but its simply not manageable. you just shed light on what the full problem is when I've been having it with onyx path for years: they're trying to make a game more with less people to do it with, they got good mechanics but its clearly too much work and takes too long to get out when they could've simplified this all but lightening the load by focusing on something lighter and less page count heavy. but nooooooo, the fandom just had to have its big clunky smorgasboard of charms defining every possible power that an Exalt can do. everything has to be in depth and intricate.

when if we simply had a corebook with all five core exalt types playable, then a second book detailing the new and noncore ones like Alchemicals and Infernals and were more efficient about what describing and and getting across what Exalts do and what they are supposed to be, have some very general setting books to get the feel and atmosphere down, we wouldn't have this problem. just....this all can be communicated and done more efficiently, Godbound is proof that it can be done, they just refuse to do it.

[Mechalich]

oh, don't worry, I'm 100% with you on the whole glacial publishing pace thing. I said it on the rpg.net forums when 3e was still coming out, and I'll here, again: they should've gone rules lite, and made all five core Exalted splats playable in the core book.

like this is all high quality, but its simply not manageable. you just shed light on what the full problem is when I've been having it with onyx path for years: they're trying to make a game more with less people to do it with, they got good mechanics but its clearly too much work and takes too long to get out when they could've simplified this all but lightening the load by focusing on something lighter and less page count heavy. but nooooooo, the fandom just had to have its big clunky smorgasboard of charms defining every possible power that an Exalt can do. everything has to be in depth and intricate.

when if we simply had a corebook with all five core exalt types playable, then a second book detailing the new and noncore ones like Alchemicals and Infernals and were more efficient about what describing and and getting across what Exalts do and what they are supposed to be, have some very general setting books to get the feel and atmosphere down, we wouldn't have this problem. just....this all can be communicated and done more efficiently, Godbound is proof that it can be done, they just refuse to do it.

I don't actually think they needed to go rules lite, necessarily, I just think that every splat should have been able to utilize the same core charm set and that should have covered all the charms everyone got (with each splat getting a handful of special flavorful powers on top of that, like Lunar shapeshifting), and just adjusted the costs and number of charms each splat got from then on. That way they'd only need to do all the really hard work once and could churn out fluff thereafter.

I also think they should have made a command decision to ignore most of Creation and concentrate on producing game materials for a much smaller region that would actually be manageable to detail. Just the Scavenger Lands (plus the eastern coast of the Realm) would have been more than large enough and would have encompassed a wide variety of variable environments.

[Lord Raziere]

I don't actually think they needed to go rules lite, necessarily, I just think that every splat should have been able to utilize the same core charm set and that should have covered all the charms everyone got (with each splat getting a handful of special flavorful powers on top of that, like Lunar shapeshifting), and just adjusted the costs and number of charms each splat got from then on. That way they'd only need to do all the really hard work once and could churn out fluff thereafter.

I also think they should have made a command decision to ignore most of Creation and concentrate on producing game materials for a much smaller region that would actually be manageable to detail. Just the Scavenger Lands (plus the eastern coast of the Realm) would have been more than large enough and would have encompassed a wide variety of variable environments.

I can see that on the mechanics front, and I once had the idea of a universal charm set as well. I agree with it. I don't think everything Exalts do is enough to warrant these truly separate charm sets, considering the subtleties are nothing worth detailing considering the hairsplitting involved. if both charms are just punching really hard, whats really the point of making them different charms after all?

as for concentrating on the Scavenger lands....I can see that working environment and such wise, your right, and perhaps most people probably focus on the scavenger lands anyways, but even considering that I'm not sure if the fandom would like that. they like their big Creationz and culture wankery, and their detailing of all these different environments. that and I'm sure there would be backlash from some in the fandom who would be stupid and go "your europeanizing our Exalted" because Scavenger lands is the most european-like place in Exalted and Onyx path fandoms are very woke, they do not like things that make it look like your ignoring creation's cultural diversity and complexity, you do that, and there will be people going "ehmahgerd, your ignoring everything else you cultural provincialist" or whatever in their polite way of saying it. they'd want their other areas of Creation back, I am sure of that.

[Morty]

Most of my knowledge of Exalted comes from reading Keychain of Creation. So I'm not exactly an expert because I don't know how much that was adapted from the original. But I generally got the impression that the exalted were definitely "people-ish". They were good or bad and a surprising number of them have no grand plan but just sort of wanted to get through life. I liked that version of it.

Keychain isn't as good a representation of Exalted as it looks, not even its second edition. But the general idea of Exalted being fundamentally people, just with power and ambition writ large, is accurate. Ironically enough, the general premise of the comic - two Solars, a Lunar, a Dragon-Blooded and an Abyssal on an adventure - would work better in 3E, due to the less absolute power tiers. Or it will, once we actually get rules for Abyssals. But then, Secret's entire character arc kind of wouldn't work in 3E...