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2019-07-17, 10:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground XCIX
Entry number 6!
Originally Posted by Sound & SilenceQuotebox
Avatar by Rain Dragon
Wish building characters for D&D 3.5 was simpler? Try HeroForge Anew! An Excel-based, highly automated character builder. v7.4 now out!
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2019-07-17, 10:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground XCIX
Entry number 7!
Originally Posted by Ana PiranhaQuotebox
Avatar by Rain Dragon
Wish building characters for D&D 3.5 was simpler? Try HeroForge Anew! An Excel-based, highly automated character builder. v7.4 now out!
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2019-07-17, 10:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground XCIX
Entry number 8!
Originally Posted by Old Johnny BlackspineQuotebox
Avatar by Rain Dragon
Wish building characters for D&D 3.5 was simpler? Try HeroForge Anew! An Excel-based, highly automated character builder. v7.4 now out!
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2019-07-17, 10:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground XCIX
Entry number 9!
Originally Posted by MaldredLast edited by Heliomance; 2019-07-17 at 10:21 AM.
Quotebox
Avatar by Rain Dragon
Wish building characters for D&D 3.5 was simpler? Try HeroForge Anew! An Excel-based, highly automated character builder. v7.4 now out!
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2019-07-17, 10:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground XCIX
And that's all of them!
I'm deeply sorry about the delay. I've had the tab open for a while, being weirdly intimidated by the prospect of making the reveal post, I don't know why. I realise I've not been the best chair this year, with a lot of delays for no good reason. I'd like to take the competition one thread further, to see it to the hundredth thread, and then I intend to step down as chair and let someone else have a turn.
Anyway, judges, have at!Quotebox
Avatar by Rain Dragon
Wish building characters for D&D 3.5 was simpler? Try HeroForge Anew! An Excel-based, highly automated character builder. v7.4 now out!
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2019-07-17, 11:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
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- A Sauna in Hell
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground XCIX
Huh, they're out!
I'm seeing a problem with one of the builds just from skimming through, but I'll leave it for after judging is done.
By the way, that entry 7 sounds super dirty in Portuguese, though it's probably accidental.
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2019-07-19, 12:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2016
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground XCIX
Added Dishes to the ICO Spreadsheet.
Last edited by Wolfem; 2019-07-20 at 08:05 AM.
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2019-07-19, 01:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2011
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- Texas
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground XCIX
Thanks a lot, Wolfem
I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.
Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!
Iron Chef Medals!
Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition
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2019-07-19, 04:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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- Terra Australis
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground XCIX
Congrats to everyone who got an entry in. SOme nice stuff there.
Wish I could have found my old stub (and the spare time) to get an entry in. I can't remember all of it,. but I think there was Spellthief and the Spell Drain and Death Devotion feats involved. I was pretty happy with it, from memory, but TBH, may not have been all that impressive compared to some of the builds entered.Last edited by Thurbane; 2019-07-19 at 04:31 PM.
My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
Torn-City - Massively multiplayer online browser based crime RPG
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2019-07-19, 04:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2011
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- Texas
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground XCIX
I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.
Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!
Iron Chef Medals!
Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition
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2019-07-19, 05:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2014
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground XCIX
I am just happy to see a fair bit of MoI. More I read that the more I like it.
Last edited by Efrate; 2019-07-19 at 05:24 PM.
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2019-07-28, 12:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2012
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground XCIX
Lot of cool builds going in different directions here. Are any of our generous souls considering judging this round?
Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
Awards
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2019-07-28, 01:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2006
- Location
- Cleveland, OH
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground XCIX
Last edited by Darrin; 2019-07-28 at 01:36 PM.
Handbooks:
Shax's Indispensable Haversack, TWF OffHandbook
Builds:
Archon of Nine, Jellobomber, King of Pong, Lightning Thief
Spells:
Druidzilla, Healbot, Gish
Iron Chef:
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2019-08-08, 10:47 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Bellona
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground XCIX
Optimization Showcase in the Playground
Former projects:
Shadowcaster Handbook
Archer Build Compendium
Iron Chef Awards!
Spoiler
GOLD
IC LXXVI: Talos
IC LXXV: Alphonse Louise Constant
IC XLIX: Babalon, Queen of Bones
IC XLV: Dead Mists
IC XL: Lycus Blackbeak
IC XXXIX: AM-1468
IC XXXV: Parsifal the Fool
IC XXX: Jal Filius
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2019-08-08, 11:24 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2012
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground XCIX
My deepest fears tell me it will be Shining Blade of Heironeus; I can only hope they are wrong.
Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
Awards
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2019-08-08, 11:37 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Bellona
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground XCIX
I have a feeling that Helio will throw us a curve somehow. Maybe she'll bring things full circle with something like blackguard, which if I recall correctly was the original Iron Chef ingredient way back on the BG boards.
Optimization Showcase in the Playground
Former projects:
Shadowcaster Handbook
Archer Build Compendium
Iron Chef Awards!
Spoiler
GOLD
IC LXXVI: Talos
IC LXXV: Alphonse Louise Constant
IC XLIX: Babalon, Queen of Bones
IC XLV: Dead Mists
IC XL: Lycus Blackbeak
IC XXXIX: AM-1468
IC XXXV: Parsifal the Fool
IC XXX: Jal Filius
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2019-08-08, 11:46 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
- Location
- Michigan
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground XCIX
Optimistic Prediction: Maybe my years of asking for Beast Heart Adept will finally be rewarded. It's a cool, unique, and actually pretty good PrC. Or something else off my ever-expanding list of Defiant, Eye of Gruumsh, Watch Detective, Mortal Hunter, Demonologist, Vassal of Bahamut, Ninja of the Crescent Moon, Rage Mage, DotU Arachnomancer, Disciple of Thrymm, Thayan Slaver, Warrior of Darkness, Tattooed Monk, and others I'm probably forgetting.
Realistic Prediction: Shining Blade. It's gonna be Shining Blade.
Iron Chef Medals
SpoilerSir Driscoll Conia - Silver - IC L
Nick Snarespan - Gold - IC LIII
Lucy "Legs" Silvertail - Bronze - IC LXVIII
Bolfarg of Knoss - Gold - IC LXXVII
Ivarr Deathborn - Bronze - IC LXXVII
Ahmtel - Silver - IC LXXVIII
Tocke of Nessus - Gold - IC LXXIX
The Blessed Third - Silver - IC LXXXI
Galahad Galapagos - Gold - IC LXXXIV
Sai-don, Knight of the Tide - Bronze - IC LXXXIV
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2019-08-10, 12:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2019
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground XCIX
Was going to say - for an iconic prestige class from the very beginning, Blackguard seems oddly conspicuous in its absence... didn't realize it existed elsewhere, but even so.
And blackguard is a class that anyone who can get enough Knowledge Religion can join by 10th level (with a couple levels MC for classes Poor BAB but even then), so it does lend to a ton of builds.
Then again it has an annoying number of dead levels after fifth... if it wasn't a caster...
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2019-08-19, 06:17 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
- Location
- Cleveland, OH
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground XCIX
Handbooks:
Shax's Indispensable Haversack, TWF OffHandbook
Builds:
Archon of Nine, Jellobomber, King of Pong, Lightning Thief
Spells:
Druidzilla, Healbot, Gish
Iron Chef:
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2019-09-12, 08:47 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Bellona
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground XCIX
While we’re waiting for judges, figured I’d post my initial abandoned idea. For a while I was really stuck on the idea of a tibbit Life Eater, who used stealth to sneak into people’s spaces unnoticed and then unleash a flurry of draining attacks. I had most of the build planned out, and some strong ideas for the fluff as well: I was going to write a riff on the “Wait Till Martin Comes” story from Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark (like most stories in the collections, its origins predate that collection, but that’s the version I know best), where someone breaks into a house to get out of the rain and is met by increasingly larger and scarier cats who sneak in and quietly discuss eating him, but keep saying to “wait till Martin comes.” I thought I’d write a fairly straight take on the story, but at the climax when the protagonist runs away, it would be revealed that Martin was there the whole time, hiding in his shadow. Nothing groundbreaking, I know, but it sounded fun.
The build itself was kind of neat, using rogue + warblade as a sort of swordsage analogue, and with some nice Cha-focused tricks as well. I went with the standard Underfoot Combat/Confound the Big Folk method of attacking larger opponents, which combines really nicely with HiPS and a stealth focus, since you can actually sneak into enemy spaces. The secondary Cha-focus went straight back into stealth via a marshal dip for motivate Dexterity, while also giving me some neat ways to deal with undead via Undead Empathy + Wanderer’s Diplomacy.
Anyhow, I had the build skeleton more or less planned out, and even wrote up my build snapshots, when I thought of another idea and decided to go for that one instead. Didn’t really have it in me to do two entries this competition, so this one got relegated to my increasingly bloated google doc of build stubs. Figured I’d post it here instead of letting it just collect dust.
Spoiler: Wait Till Martin ComesTibbit, rogue 4/warblade 2/marshal 1/life eater 10/uncanny trickster 3
1 rogue1- darkstalker, dodge
2 rogue2- weapon finesse
3 rogue3- knowledge devotion
4 rogue4- combat expertise
5 warblade1-
6 life eater1- skill focus (diplomacy)
7 life eater2-
8 marshal1- underfoot combat
9 life eater3- confound the big folk
10 life eater4-
11 life eater5-
12 life eater6- undead empathy
13 life eater7-
14 life eater8-
15 life eater9- wanderer’s diplomacy
16 life eater10-
17 warblade2-
18 uncanny trickster1- craven
19 uncanny trickster2-
20 uncanny trickster3-
maneuvers/stances
1- Sudden leap,sapphire nightmare blade, stance of claritystance
2- Rabid wolf strike
5- Dancing mongoose
6- Moment of alacrity
7- Hearing the airstance, avalanche of blades
Marshal aura: motivate dexterity
POSS CHANGES: reshuffle later feats to take craven at 12 and bump undead empathy/wanderer’s diplomacy to 15/18
BUILD SNAPSHOTS
Rogue 4/Warblade 1:
During these lowest levels, Martin often prefers to remain in humanoid form for combat, as his cat form must enter the foe’s space in order to attack. As a feat rogue Martin does not have access to sneak attack yet, but he is still an agile fighter and can quickly reposition himself with sudden leap and apply bonus damage with Knowledge Devotion and his sapphire nightmare blade and rabid wolf strike maneuvers. Defensively his small size and high Dexterity, combined with Dodge and stance of clarity, allows him to remain alive.
Outside of combat, Martin possesses fantastic stealth (including a +21 hide bonus before items while in cat form) and decent social skills, as well as a wide smattering of knowledge skills. He is a capable infiltrator, able to use his cat form and Darkstalker to get into almost any location completely unseen.
Death’s ruin may seem like an odd ACF to take considering that Martin does not have sneak attack, but it will absolutely come in handy down the road.
Rogue 4/Warblade 1/Life Eater 4/Marshal 1:
In these first four levels of the secret ingredient, Martin completely comes into his own. Here Martin begins abandoning his humanoid form and remaining in cat form during combat. With Underfoot Combat and Confound the Big Folk, Martin can enter the space of a medium or larger foe while in cat form, receive a shield bonus from the foe whose space he is occupying, and have all of his attacks be considered as flat-footed. He can also make opposing attacks have a high likelihood of striking his opponent for the low cost of a -1 penalty to his attack rolls, and can even make trip attacks using a Dexterity check (further boosted by his marshal’s Motivate Dexterity aura), while his opponents are denied any bonus for their size.
These two feats are effective all on their own, but adding in Life Eater’s ability, they become quite a bit deadlier. With hide in plain sight, he can hide in his opponent’s shadow as he sneaks into their space, disappearing completely until he attacks in a flurry of claws and teeth. And while his damage is minimal, adding an injury poison and sneak attack to his three attacks helps keep him relevant in combat. He can also use chill touch as an alternative means of attacking for high-AC foes
Rogue 4/Warblade 1/Life Eater 9/Marshal 1:
At ECL 15, Martin has fully developed all of his main strategies. His sneak attack improves to +3d6, and each attack wounds his opponents and deals negative levels as well. He also gains some very nice spell-like abilities in enervation and destruction that allow him to attack from a distance without leaving his cat form.
Undead Empathy and Wanderer’s Diplomacy may seem like an odd departure from his attacking-focused feats, but they go a long way toward shoring up his single biggest vulnerability: the undead. With a decent Charisma, good skills and his Skill Focus feat, Martin is an excellent bluffer and passable diplomancer. These two feats work in tandem to let him make a bluff check as a standard action (with no penalty!) to temporarily influence the attitudes of mindless undead, leaving him capable of completely removing them from combat with a DC 25 bluff check.
Rogue 4/Warblade 2/Life Eater 10/Marshal 1/Uncanny Trickster 3:
Martin finishes out his last levels by focusing on his initiating. Bouncing back into warblade immediately gives him access to dancing mongoose, and he also picks up moment of alacrity and avalanche of blades as well. Dancing mongoose increases his attacks in a single round to 5 despite his moderate BAB, and when adding on sneak attack, craven, negative levels and wounding, that is significant, even against undead (who are immune to negative levels and poison but still take sneak damage thanks to Martin’s death’s ruin ACF). Against low-AC foes he can go further and use avalanche of blades for potentially even more attacks.
Moment of alacrity provides an interesting trick. Since Martin’s usual attacking sequence requires first sneaking into his opponent’s space, it means he typically does not start dealing damage until the second round of combat, and he has to watch out for enemies that attempt to leave the shared space. With moment of alacrity, Martin can delay until after all his opponents act, sneak into their space, use moment of alacrity to shuffle himself back up to the top of the initiative order, and then immediately attack on the next round with all his benefits.
Uncanny trickster offers a few excellent benefits here. In addition to advancing his warblade levels while also providing extra skill tricks and significantly improved skill points/selection, it also allows Martin to avoid multiclassing penalties and effectively provides an extra .5 initiator level (since it advances warblade but is not itself an initiating class, it effectively provides +3.5 IL in three levels), allowing Martin to just eke out IL 13 for 7th-level maneuvers. (If your DM does not allow this, it’s still superior to taking more levels of warblade due to the skills and avoidance of multiclassing penalties; the only thing that changes about the build is that Martin must choose a 6th-level or lower maneuver instead of avalanche of blades when swapping out sapphire nightmare blade.)
Optimization Showcase in the Playground
Former projects:
Shadowcaster Handbook
Archer Build Compendium
Iron Chef Awards!
Spoiler
GOLD
IC LXXVI: Talos
IC LXXV: Alphonse Louise Constant
IC XLIX: Babalon, Queen of Bones
IC XLV: Dead Mists
IC XL: Lycus Blackbeak
IC XXXIX: AM-1468
IC XXXV: Parsifal the Fool
IC XXX: Jal Filius
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2019-09-12, 08:56 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2018
- Location
- Seattle, WA
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground XCIX
I'm seriously considering judging, but before I do I need to ask how fair it is to make the story/fluff a significant part of the score. I was thinking of going as high as +1 in Originality for good fluff (no penalty for lacking fluff, you just don't get those points), and additionally waiving or reducing some penalties in Elegance if the fluff did a good enough job justifying them (this would be for dipping and such, not actually illegal stuff, naturally). Is that fair/reasonable, or am I letting my own preference for a good story have too big an influence on the score?
Originally Posted by Darths & DroidsOptimization Trophies
Looking for a finished webcomic to read, or want to recommend one to others? Check out my Completed Webcomics You'd Recommend II thread!
Or perhaps you want something Halloweeny for the season? Halloween Webcomics II
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2019-09-12, 09:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2019
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2019-09-12, 09:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
- Location
- Cleveland, OH
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground XCIX
That is entirely at the discretion of the judge. Sometimes judges address story/fluff points in Originality, sometimes it shows up in Elegance. Judges actually have quite a bit of leeway in how they weight their scoring rubrics.
I can't really speak for other judges, but I can explain my own reasoning (even though nobody asked): Coming up with a backstory is one of the toughest parts of Iron Chef for me, so much so that it often prevents me from submitting something that works mechanically but I can't think of a decent backstory for it. Some chefs only submit a bare-bones backstory, some skip it entirely. I want to be fair to chefs have trouble with backstory or decide not to provide any.
So my reasoning: I will not penalize an entry for having a short/brief backstory, or for having no backstory at all. Skipping or skimping the backstory won't hurt you. What I use the backstory for is when I have two builds that are "tied" on points, but I feel that one build should be a little stronger than the other, then I will look into the backstory for reasons to elevate a score in a particular category. So I tend to use story/fluff for tiebreakers.
That sounds entirely fair and reasonable.Handbooks:
Shax's Indispensable Haversack, TWF OffHandbook
Builds:
Archon of Nine, Jellobomber, King of Pong, Lightning Thief
Spells:
Druidzilla, Healbot, Gish
Iron Chef:
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2019-09-13, 08:36 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2017
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground XCIX
This sounds fair to me. When I judge I generally award up to 1 point for extremely flavorful builds. I'd personally be a bit careful of letting fluff buy off penalties, unless the penalty is fluff related. For example, I penalized a build in the past for taking an [exalted] feat in addition to several morally grey classes/feats/features (don't quite remember the details). A fluff aknowkedgement and explanation could have prevented that.
Last edited by DeTess; 2019-09-13 at 08:39 AM.
Jasnah avatar by Zea Mays
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2019-09-13, 10:53 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Bellona
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground XCIX
It’s been a long time since I’ve last judged, but when I did, I always looked for builds that were thematic and flavorful and seemed like they’d be interesting as characters or NPCs, and rewarded them with decent scores accordingly. Sometimes that was represented in a well-written backstory, but sometimes it was present in the build itself. There have been plenty of entries over the years that managed to really capture who they were and what they were going for with minimal (and in some cases non-existent) backstories, and there have been just as many cases where a long or convoluted backstory only served to muddy the waters.
Basically, what I’m interested in is a clear idea of who the character is and what makes them interesting, and there are a lot of ways to get that across. Show me that, whether you do it through a backstory or little vignettes or epic poetry or just through a really flavorful and well-done build, and I’ll be happy. Don’t present that, and no amount of backstory will fix it for me.Optimization Showcase in the Playground
Former projects:
Shadowcaster Handbook
Archer Build Compendium
Iron Chef Awards!
Spoiler
GOLD
IC LXXVI: Talos
IC LXXV: Alphonse Louise Constant
IC XLIX: Babalon, Queen of Bones
IC XLV: Dead Mists
IC XL: Lycus Blackbeak
IC XXXIX: AM-1468
IC XXXV: Parsifal the Fool
IC XXX: Jal Filius
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2019-09-18, 05:18 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground XCIX
Any updates on judging? We've come so far, it would be a real shame to have the contest die now, on the 99th thread!
Quotebox
Avatar by Rain Dragon
Wish building characters for D&D 3.5 was simpler? Try HeroForge Anew! An Excel-based, highly automated character builder. v7.4 now out!
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2019-09-18, 09:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2018
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground XCIX
Would I be able to judge? I have some thoughts, and since I just missed entry I'd love to participate somehow.
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2019-09-18, 09:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground XCIX
I won’t have free time until December. But I will happily judge Round XCIX in December if no one else steps up to the plate before then.
Yes, I’m aware of how dumb that statement is.In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
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2019-09-18, 09:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2016
- Location
- Colorado, USA
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground XCIX
Last edited by jdizzlean; 2019-09-18 at 09:54 PM.
Originally Posted by Peelee
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2019-09-25, 07:41 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Bellona
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground XCIX
Optimization Showcase in the Playground
Former projects:
Shadowcaster Handbook
Archer Build Compendium
Iron Chef Awards!
Spoiler
GOLD
IC LXXVI: Talos
IC LXXV: Alphonse Louise Constant
IC XLIX: Babalon, Queen of Bones
IC XLV: Dead Mists
IC XL: Lycus Blackbeak
IC XXXIX: AM-1468
IC XXXV: Parsifal the Fool
IC XXX: Jal Filius