Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 104
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Orc in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    New Jersey, doh.
    Gender
    Male

    Default (3.P) Monsters as PC's [OOC]

    Greetings, everyone. This is a better place to ask questions from now on, instead of the recruitment thread. Whether that's mechanics, or Faerun before you arrived at Sundabar. I know a lot about Forgotten Realms up to 3.5 time frame, but I'm sure there's a lot more I don't know.

    In Character thread will be linked in this post but won't be made until closer to Saturday.

    I have more details about the campaign world itself and game rules if needed, certainly if you have any specific questions. I didn't want to go crazy with house rules, I do try to stay fairly RAW when that doesn't break something.

    One question worth answering here: Why are you in Sundabar, and how did you get here? It is a fairly northern frontier city, a small number of days east of Silverymoon and even closer to a large desert. (Anauroch? Forget the name) Mountains and forests and related terrain types are common. It has seasons, but they tend to colder than normal.

    Language: Detail I'd left out, in Forgotten Realms nearly everyone has a Regional language. In addition to race, common, and bonus languages. Common absolutely exists, but is closer to a pidgin/trade language not suited for complex things like siege defense or art appreciation. Chondathan and Iluskan are the most common near here, in that order. More bizarre backgrounds, especially outsiders recently arrived to the material plane (especially with tongues always active) may not know one. If you were born on Faerun you very likely do.

    Anyways, welcome!

    IC Thread linky:

    Spoiler: Initial campaign pitch
    Show
    I'm interested in this as a potential DM, and I have a campaign setting I've tinkered with for some time that I'd like to adapt to it. I could have a full 16 by Monday, if interest is there.

    I do have some personal dealbreakers though, and I'll try to state the important ones. Note that as OP DaOldeWolf has effective veto power. If he says no I may resubmit at a later date in my own thread more exactly how I want it. But if he says no I'll politely bow out.

    The first is that it would lean more towards 3.5 than pathfinder. I view the class and skill concepts for pathfinder as better than 3.5 overall. The big thing is the main spells and psionics. Those would have to be 3.5, with a few greatly desired pathfinder spells sprinkled in. I work 45 hours a week, and I don't think mastery of pathfinder versions of spells as realistic for me. I'm far more confident and knowledgeable with 3.5. Pathfinder dwarf, elf, human, barbarian, sorcerer will be outright embraced as an example. Just not the huge list of spells, psionic powers, and magic items overall.

    The next is as monsters it would be gestalt. As an example, sun elf wizard//nymph. The monster would be RHD and LA, and/or savage species progression. This example would be a full wizard, with the sun elf and nymph stats stacking, and all abilities of both. At least once you were high enough level to unlock all nymph abilties. (assuming savage species progression) I will try to be as flexible as I possibly can with monster types. This is a complex subject, but expect a base RHD+LA to be limited to 10 or less.

    The campaign setting would be Forgotten Realms. Common to 3.5, several years after the Time of Troubles. Things have stabilized, Bane is back to life, and Thay has with difficulty stopped trying to conquer all of existence with outright warfare and is now trying to do so using trade and gold. Do not expect future plots to follow published Forgotten Realms. I have ideas on what I want to see happen, cities soon to be wiped out may thrive for decades, major cities may change control repeatedly with no regard to what D&D has published after the game begins. Chosen of many gods exist. They are powerful movers and shakers. Do not expect them to be critical features of gameplay. They will come near you, and need to be thought about. Much like a major snowstorm that week. And then the characters (stars of the story) choose their path and don't hear about any of them for months.

    I am a fan and contributor to the thread Frendle linked. I would like to see it used. I cannot guarantee I'd accept their consensus LA's. Not because I don't respect it, but because a 5HD monstrous humanoid beatstick with few abiliites and Int/Wis/Cha 22 may be fairly balanced. Add T1 casting at RHD and the entire evaluation changes. I'd like to make the monster races work. If gestalt means I need to add +2 to the LA to keep balance sane I'll do that. I may need to make a savage species progression for each character, but I'm willing to do that as well.

    First party 3.5 or pathfinder will likely be accepted. Homebrew will consistently be banned. I encourage optimization around what you want your character to be good at. This is not remotely TO. I respect RAW when I can, discard it when I must and choose the most functional RAI for the campaign. If you accuse me of of rule 0 or house ruling I will simply say "sure, I agree. Do you still want to play?" I have a lot of details decided, but those will be in a 16 if we get that far.

    This will be high-powered. The gestalts you have access to should be able to handle it. Campaign will begin at level 3, and rocket launcher tag is still a concern and I'll watch out for it. When the party is level 7, expect to routinely face CR9 encounters. Exp and treasure will also be CR9 in this example. So progression will be faster than typical, but this will still be play by post. The BBEG encounter for this party will be higher than CR9. The climax of multiple arcs will be even higher than that. Again, exp and treasure appropriate to challenge. Any named BBEG or major character will also be gestalt. Standard UA gestalt or monster gestalt, as appropriate. Though a BBEG may be warblade/wizard, you will not have that option. Yours is class build/monster race build.

    I'm willing to let party consensus dictate most general alignment and goals. I want vaguely at least mildly good, although a fair focus on getting more loot and power for yourselves is fine. You must get along with the other party members. Amoral power for self at all costs characters are likely to be rejected. LE and CE paladin variants are outright banned, for example. As well any evil characters devoted to evil for evil's sake. LE characters similar to Redcloak can be great, and I enjoy the debate between LE and CG trying to work together. Xykon would be banned. LE explanation on how they will play nice could be done in two sentences. NE and CN are harder, I'm listening but I expect a solid argument. If you can explain why a CE character will play nice in under 4 lengthy paragraphs I will be very impressed.

    I am a fan of the Frank and K Trollman Tomes. These are very high-powered, but I will use less than half of them. If you want that version of barbarian or fighter I'm happy to discuss it. Most other base classes or prestige classes will not be allowed, some are horribly balanced. If you are familiar, the wish-based economy will come into play. You absolutely can summon an Efreet and get wishes out of him. (non-trivial effort, but you should be able to pull it off.) At least once or twice. Try it hundreds of times and beings far more powerful than you will take notice, and action. Including in this case the bigwigs in the City of Brass. They have powers comparable to intermediate gods. In general I allow you attempt a variety of impressive things. Actions have consequences though, most wizards are smart enough to understand the more common risks.

    There a lot of minor details I've thought of but this is lengthy enough. And if push come to shove, generally negotiable. I will do my best to detail accurately in a 16.

    Full disclosure and fair warning: I have never DM'ed play by post before. I understand the rules for 3.5 in particular well, and have DM'ed longer than some reading this have been alive. I understand the slower pace and I may take time to adjust at first. Where the posts will be aren't decided, here or discord. I promise it will be text and not voice chat, though.

    Spoiler: Big 16
    Show
    I will continue to remember details over time and make requested changes, but the campaign pitch is effectively complete.

    System: 3.P. Mix of D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder 1.0 elements.
    Player Count: 4-6 would be ideal.
    Style of Play: Mix, but focused on combat/exploration and roleplaying. Puzzles may never happen. Traps will exist, I suggest searching at minimum every chest and any impressive door.
    Allowed Content: Generally, first party D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder 1.0. Dragon magazine will generally be allowed but needs to be glanced at. 3rd party is discouraged and case-by-case. Homebrew will generally be rejected. Elements from Frank and K Trollman's tomes will be in play. This is complex and will be detailed later as necessary. 3.5 Expanded Psionics handbook and ToB are encouraged.
    This is in Faerun, so anything Forgotten Realms is likely to be allowed. Greyhawk is fairly simple to adapt. Eberron is mildly discouraged, especially if it is very complex. Warforged are acceptable as your base LA +0 race.

    Character Creation:


    • Backstory:Roleplay in backstory is very optional. I'd like at least a short origin or beginning concept stated. I'm more focused on hooks about what motivates your character, and what doesn't.
    • Experience: 3,500 (D&D 3.5, 3rd level plus a healthy amount for potions and scrolls to start. Please don't spend below 3,000)
    • Wealth: 4,000 gold. I will add an adventuring kit, so you don't need to buy anything to travel 3-4 days overland safely. You are starting in a decent sized city so anything you can afford you can start with. Standard gold/exp costs for D&D 3.5 magic item creation.
    • Ability Scores: Very high powered. Based on 3.5 class tier rankings. T1 is 32 point buy. T2 is 36. T3+ is 40. 3.5 point buy unless everyone wants pathfinder, then I'd need to swap numbers. NPC's with PC class levels will also have higher point buys for their build.
    • Hitpoints/Health:None are rolled. Max for 1st level, half (round up) all others. So d4 is 3, d6 is 4, d8 is 5, d10 is 6, d12 is 7.
    • Alignment: No alignments are banned. Not a straight jacket, excepting divine casters. You need to play nice with other party members. LE, NE, CE, CN needs some explanation, background or elsewhere. This is in regards as to why you will close to never betray the party, and why you won't be toxic enough to receive and deserve a lynching at their hands.


    Other Notes:

    Spoiler: "The Big Sixteen questions:"
    Show
    1. What game system are you running (D&D, Call of Cthulu, Palladium, GURPS, etc.), and if applicable what edition (Original, Classic, Revised, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 10th, etc.)?
    3.P: Mix of D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder 1.0.

    2. What 'type' or variant of game will it be (i.e. "Shadow Chasers" or "Agents of Psi" for d20 Modern)? What is the setting for the game (eg. historic period, published or homebrewed campaign setting, alternate reality, modern world, etc.)?
    Forgotten Realms setting. Starting city and year/date later, several years after the Time of Troubles.

    3. How many Players are you looking for? Will you be taking alternates, and if so, how many?
    4-6 is ideal, if there is a lot of good contributions I will consider alternates.

    4. What's the gaming medium (OOTS, chat, e-mail etc.)?
    Until further notice or better consensus options, play-by-post on these boards. I'd prefer something that handled dice rolling better in particular, but plan to honor the request of "not discord". Voice chat will not be used in the main campaign play. I'm happy to speak with an individual player on voice chat, but major full party combat and roleplaying encounters will be play-by-post only.

    5. What is the characters' starting status (i.e. experience level)?
    D&D 3.5 experience rules, 3,500 exp, 3rd level class/monster gestalt.

    6. How much gold or other starting funds will the characters begin with?
    4,000 gold. Purchases can be made and are encouraged before play begins, magic items can be made as long as you stay above 3,000 exp. Standard 3.5 magic item creation.

    7. Are there any particular character classes, professions, orders, etc. that you want... or do not want? What are your rules on 'prestige' and/or homebrewed classes?
    I'd like a varied group that can handle common D&D challenges. If fighter/rogue/cleric/wizard can handle it, the party should be able to in some fashion. 1st party classes and prestige classes are usually accepted, there will be a ban list. Homebrew is discouraged. Very complex homebrew will be rejected. 3rd party is case by case.

    8. What races, subraces, species, etc. are allowed for your game? Will you allow homebrewed races or species? 'Prestige' races or species?
    This is class/monster gestalt. The class track will be a 1 HD, generally LA:+0 base race. Standard D&D races should use pathfinder 1.0 rules. (spoiler: they are all stronger) The class track will also be a standard build of classes and prestige classes.
    The monster track will be only a monster "race". This may be RHD and LA, or a full savage species progression. I'd ask that your monster stay to under HD+LA of 10 total. If you are passionate about something I will try to accommodate.
    D&D 3.5 monster races are better evaluated by this series of threads: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...ive&p=21798987
    Sadly, I can't allow everything or anticipate every class and monster race interaction. I will have to evaluate each monster race LA when I see the build.

    9. By what method should Players generate their attributes/ability scores and Hit Points?
    D&D 3.5 point buy, adjust for the tier ranking of the overall build. T1 is 32 points, T2 is 36, T3 is 40. This the tier of the class side of the build. A few may need judgement calls, but a wizard that gives up no caster levels is T1.
    Max Hps at level 1, average (round up) all other levels. d4 is 3, d6 is 4, d8 is 5, d10 is 6, d12 is 7. If the monster track has a HD at that level, use the higher of monster HD and class HD.

    10. Does your game use alignment? What are your restrictions, if so?
    Standard alignments. None are banned, the common theme is play nice within the party. LE, NE, CE, and CN need some explanation on how and why that is the case. Extremely evil, including LE and CE paladin variants, and any prestige class requiring vile feats as well as vile feats themselves, are banned. See ban list for more details.

    11. Do you allow multi-classing, or have any particular rules in regards to it?
    The class track has unlimited multi-classing and prestige classing. No 20% penalty for any situation.
    The monster track will only be monster HD and LA, unless a full savage species progression is made or exists.
    They don't interact much, in particular full casting on the monster track can't be used to qualify for theurge prestige classes.


    12. Will you be doing all of the die rolling during the course of the game? Will die rolls be altered, or left to the honor system? If players can make die rolls, which ones do they make, how should they make the rolls, and how should they report them?Players will do significant rolls for their characters. Hit, damage, and saving throws. I plan to perception/stealth checks and probably initiative to speed things. I am open to suggestions on this.

    13. Are there any homebrewed or optional/variant rules that your Players should know about? If so, list and explain them, or provide relevant links to learn about these new rules.
    Yes, LA adjustment thread above. Gestalt is a modification of the UA gestalt rules, available on the 3.5 SRD online for free. Some Frank and K Trollman tomes rules will be used, most will not.
    Honestly there is too much to detail in this portion. Work in progress.

    14. Is a character background required? If so, how big? Are you looking for anything in particular (i.e. the backgrounds all ending up with the characters in the same city)?
    Yes, it can be fairly short. I want at least a brief origin description. I particularly request one or more hooks to motivate your character in gameplay.

    15. Does your game involve a lot of hack & slash, puzzle solving, roleplaying, or a combination of the above?
    Primarily hack & slash, exploring, and roleplaying. Mix of those three, puzzle solving I'm not a fan when anyone has hours to google it, so expect those to be very rare.

    16. Are your Players restricted to particular rulebooks and supplements, or will you be allowing access to non-standard material? What sources can Players use for their characters?
    Generally 3.5 D&D and pathfinder 1.0 first party, including dragon magazine. I'd prefer major systems to be mostly 3.5. Classes, races, and base and prestige classes can be either.
    Skills will use the pathfinder version, house rules added on top.


    Spoiler: Class/Monster Gestalt??
    Show
    Ok, this isn't real simple, but I'll do my best.

    This is gestalt, based on Unearthed Arcana rules, conveniently in the 3.5 SRD online for free. Fractional BAB and save bonuses are in effect, for sanity.

    The class track is fairly normal, you choose standard LA: +0 race, and a build. Say Druid 20. The races are based and balanced on pathfinder 1.0, not D&D 3.5. So humans and half elves are +2/-0 for stats. Dwarves and most others +2/+2/-2, and unusual ones like orcs are +4/-2/-2/-2. That is the stats I expect to see. If you want something much more powerful it needs to be on the monster track.

    Otherwise the class track isn't too complex. Theurge builds may not use casting from the monster track.

    The monster track is effectively a savage species progression. I'll try to find an example, but because of the powerful abilities, you only get HD/saves/skills on some of the levels. The other levels are effectively a +1 LA count. Stats, spell-likes, size, anything a human doesn't get is spread out over the levels. The hound archon mentioned by JNAProductions is 6 RHD and +1 LA, so at level 7 will be a standard hound archon on the monster track. Stats from the monster track and the base LA: +0 race stack.


    Spoiler: House Rules
    Show
    Boy. I had more in mind than I expected, I'll try to keep them simple and organized.

    Skills are generally pathfinder 1.0. In particular, no cross-class skill costs, no X4 skill points at 1st level, but +3 skill ranks for any class skill you put at least one point in. Concentration is no longer a skill, but everyone gets 1 rank per level free, with a bonus from spellcasting stat, or choose Con or Cha if you have no spells. While it is not actually a skill, you can choose (pathfinder) skill focus for it. Skill focus (Concentration) can replace combat casting for requirements. Casting defensively is 15+spell level, not 15+2Xspell level as pathfinder. High level casters don't fail this check.
    Bonus skills: Every class has 2 more skill points per level than listed. There are many fighter variants to consider if you desire that class. All have 6+int skills points (meaning you get 8+int) with a solid skill list to allow them to function.
    Perception: Mainly pathfinder 1.0 rules, spot/listen/search as one skill. React to ambush, or oppose disguise check is Wis based. Searching for traps or secret doors is Wis or Int based, whichever is better. (smart but very unwise rogues should be good at finding traps)
    Athletics: This is a combination of the pathfinder skills Climb, Fly, and Swim.

    Any class which had search as a class skill in 3.5 has trapfinding. So rogues, bards, and rangers have trapfinding. Barbarians and druids do not. Classes unique to pathfinder are case-by-case, but those five classes should be a good guideline.

    Everyone who reaches 4 ranks in Stealth has the Darkstalker feat (Lords of Madness). This counters most special detection abilities, requiring normal perception checks. It counters this list(others may be added): Blindsense, Blindsight, scent, tremorsense, mindsight.

    Weapon finesse is a feature of light weapons and the spiked chain. If it is a prerequisite, everyone is considered to have it.

    Two-weapon fighting includes improved, greater, etc version for the cost of one feat total. Offhand attacks unlock when you have the BAB for an iterative. 3.5 rangers may need replacement feats if they went two-weapon fighting.

    Frank and K Trollman tomes. I use some of their ideas, but a lot less than half. Barbarian and fighter are fine, most other base classes and all prestige classes are banned. Most of the scaling feats would be allowed. The scaling improvements from armor type are not in play. I can't offhand recall if their were scaling bonuses from weapon type but if they did they are a no-go as well.

    Multi-weapon fighting is not available to start, but can be acquired in place of two-weapon fighting. There is no improved multi-weapon fighting and greater, etc. A marilith would have multi-weapon fighting, improved two-weapon fighting, greater two-weapon fighting for the cost of one feat.

    Iterative attacks are +0 to first attack, -5 total to later iteratives. So a 16th level fighter is at +16/+11/+11/+11 with no bonuses feats, or magic items.

    Feats are as to pathfinder, 1 per odd level base so 1, 3, 5, 7, etc. You get additional feats based on tier ranking of your class track build: 1 for T1, 2 for T2, 3 for T3+. You may take at most 1 flaw and 1 trait from UA. (see the SRD online) My limited understanding is pathfinder traits have no downsides and are close enough to feats in power, so you can choose to buy those at a cost of one feat each.

    Favored classes: pathfinder 1.0 rules, 1 hp or 1 skill point if that class track level is in a favored class. Everyone may choose one favored class on creation. (or later, if desired). Prestige classes may never be favored classes. Humans, Half-elves, and half-orcs may choose 2 favored classes.

    Bonus Hps per level. You get Hps based on your highest stat, which is unlikely to be Con. The elves in this campaign have quite a lot more hps than most. If you for some reason have Con as your highest stat and plan to keep it that way, you get another bonus level 1 feat. (Incarnum maybe?) If you are a sorcerer and become undead, gaining some mechanic that gives Cha to Hps, you do not get an extra feat. Actual Con only. Str is significantly easier to boost very high than other stats. So beatsticks may have a ton of Hps. This is a feature, not a bug.

    Retraining: (PHB 2 rules) You may generally retrain for free with reasonable downtime. (think a few days) I'm not a big fan of no-rest-for-the-wicked, but in an overland chase you can't do it. Race retraining is a very big deal. It would need to be discussed, but can be done.

    You may not teleport, even with wish or equivalent, through 50' or more of solid rock. Or into a room 90% contained by a thin sheet of lead. Weirdstones are a thing in Forgotten realms, that also prevent teleport and some other things. In my campaign they are reduced from 200k gold+ to 20k-30k or so. (so no, you can't wish for a weirdstone) Teleport circles are not restricted by any of these. But you physically have to be at both ends for some time, so that is still a limitation.

    Undead, even mindless undead, deserve the evil tag. There are rare exceptions. In Faerun good elven lich variants, but this is consistent. Frank and K necromancy Tomes discussed this, but in my campaign positive energy is mildly good, negative energy is mildly evil, and undead are fully evil. Skeletons and zombies have to be ordered *not* to kill everything living they see. They are not animated object on a corpse, they are a disturbing and wrong thing brought into existence. Related topic, golems don't have an elemental spirit empowering them. They move around because magic. The animating force is effectively the exp the caster spent.

    Mindless undead have most of the immunities in core rules, I may weaken one or two. And have d12 hps, with no bonus from Con or another stat. Intelligent undead, especially templates like vampires, liches, and necropolitan are significantly changed. They do not change to d12's, but keep what the previous class or type gave them. They generally will get bonus hps from a stat, usually Cha. Intelligent undead lose quite a lot of immunities, but undead still have Con -, and only make Fort saves if it also affects objects, like disintegrate.

    Spending exp is a big deal. It can not be generally reduced. No thought bottle, no epic item that reduces exp costs.

    Wishes and the wish-based economy. I don't expect this to come up at level 3, but it could be surprisingly soon. You can get "free" wishes or miracles. A level 17 cleric can simply cast them every day, planar binding and chain-slapping efreet for wishes, shapechange into a zodar. Wizards can pull it off as well. Not as easily as cleric, but they will understand how by 13 if not earlier. "Free" wishes and miracles are limited to whatever a cleric can miracle without exp cost. In addition, a single magic item of 15,000 gold or less, or gold/gems/jewelry of 25,000 or less. Which yes, includes a 25,000 gp diamond for true resurrection. Also +1 inherent bonuses to a stat. Inherent bonuses are generally only to stats, now stack fully, and in no event may ever exceed 5. Efreet and zodars can't wish for a 15,001 gp magic item, they just aren't capable. If you wish for a 15,001 gp magic item, you pay significant exp, or the spell fails. Planar currencies can't be wished for. Including: souls, liquid pain, favors, and adamantite. The planar metropolises of Union and Sigil exist. They both have currencies designed for the powerful to make small purchases in currency the seller will actually have interest in.

    Souls as power and pain as power are unknown. There are vague references the very knowledgeable have heard of that ancient Netheril may have been able to. Maybe the knowledge has simply been lost, maybe an incarnation of the god Mystra made it no longer possible. When the campaign begins, no one knows how.

    Forgotten Realms rules easy to miss: Divine casters get their spells and abilities from gods. No one may worship a concept. You really want to have a god chosen, at least by the very last second before you die. If you have "none" listed when you die, I will strongly encourage you to choose one right then. If you don't, and it takes a month to get raise dead funds together, you are pretty much *never* coming back. If you have a god chosen it is standard raise/resurrect rules. Rangers and paladins at level 3 don't need to choose, at level 4 you get no spells until you do.

    Mielikki (NG nature deity) greatly relaxes weapon and armor restrictions for druids. I'm extending this to all druids. Basically, druids can wear all light armor, medium armor, and shields. Metal armor and shields are allowed.
    Weapons are unrestricted, druids don't start with a lot of proficiencies in them though.

    Clerics have heavy armor proficiency. (so 3.5 not really a house rule, but they don't in pathfinder)

    Ur-Priests: Exist, and do not have to be devoted to evil. You can be an ur-priest with another mediocre feat in place of spell focus(evil). This is complicated, and needs discussion if you want that. I have ideas on it, but this is very much in the "ask the DM and discuss it" category. The effective casting level for ur-priest from the class feature is capped at your character level. So Wizard5/Mindbender1/Ur-priest2/Mystic Theurge10 casts at level 18 for Ur-priest spells (which can be improved by items and feats from that point), not the 20 you'd get from how it is worded.

    Divine Metamagic: is available, but Persistent Spell is the first item on the ban list. DMM: Quicken follows RAW. Turning attempts are a resource, swift actions are resource, this is a high-power choice but not unbalancing. Nightsticks don't stack, so multiple DMM: Quickened spells every battle likely won't be possible.

    Multiple turning pools. Variant turning abilities (rebuke dragon) do not exist. So for DMM and divine feats, your possible choices are turn undead and rebuke undead. It isn't easy to get both, but there's a few prestige classes that can do it. If you do this, the extra turning feat, one nightstick, and some other boosts apply to both pools. DMM or domain abilities must be powered by one or the other with each use. You may not DMM: Quicken with 3 turn undead and 2 rebuke undead uses, but choose 5 from one or the other.

    Shapechange: May well be the most powerful and the most versatile spell in the game. I reserve the right to limit absurdly powerful abilities gained. An example is the add power ability that is most of the basis of Pun-Pun. Shapechanging into Zodar for a "free" wish every 6 seconds is explicitly allowed. If it is a lot better than that, it is likely banned.

    Celerity chain: The spells exist and work as written, the daze effect is quite different. The daze effect from celerity and friends cannot be removed, dispeled, healed, or prevented in any way, short of greater gods. (divine rank 16+) This is still a very good spell. Celerity into wall of stone can be game-changing. Celerity into time stop you are dazed the first round of your time. So round 1 of 1d4+1 is lost, still quite powerful. If this bothers you, pretend I house ruled daze replaced by something with a different name. Reminder that you generally can't use immediate actions when flat-footed.

    Spell Resistance: Not house rule: When you cast spells on yourself, you always penetrate your own spell resistance. House rule: If you have spell resistance, you may perform a 1 hour ritual with a caster to allow them to always penetrate your spell resistance. This lasts indefinitely. Either participant can end this effect with a full-round action that does not allow attacks of opportunity. Anyone with spell resistance can also, as a full-round action end this effect on every caster it has completed it with. If ended, it again takes another hour to re-enable. Mindless creatures (Int -) are incapable of performing this ritual.

    Astral Construct: Ignore the Complete Psionic 1 max astral construct per manifester. Terrible rule for terrible reasons, removed.

    Owl's Insight: Is reverted from Spell Compendium to it's previous version, which was sanely enhancement. Hard cap of +10 Wis at caster level 20, the feat that raises this slightly does work.

    Psionics-Magic Transparency: Even more than encouraged. There are no psionics magic item crafting feats, they are rolled into the similar PHB version. Psicraft is rolled into spellcraft. (wizards know a lot about psionics, psions know a lot about magic. This is a feature, not a bug.) Metapsionic feats are rolled into the equivalent metamagic feat, if it exists. (Maximize, Quicken). Keeping Know: Arcana and Know: Psionics separate, though. Psionics definitely exists in Faerun, but it is definitely 10 times as rare as arcane magic (outside Underdark), if not more.

    Spoiler: The Ban List
    Show
    Persistent Spell. I looked for a long time at breaking combos or near breaking combos, and found this to be the culprit. If requested, I will homebrew an improved extend spell feat in some form. You will not get a 1 round spell for 24 hours before character level 30.
    Illithid Savant. Once the obvious campaign breaking issues are removed, subtle ones do surprising things that are a headache. Just no.
    Beholder Mage. Frankly you couldn't qualify. But if you did, several spells per round as a standard action aren't realistic to balance.
    Leadership, Undead Leadership, Thrallherd. Mostly because I don't want cohorts. Animal companions, wild cohort, and familiars are fine. One animal companion and one familiar max, please.
    Unlimited stacking. As I say often, I respect RAW but I respect balance more. Most bonuses, say enhancement or luck bonuses, don't stack. Dodge, racial, and unnamed bonuses usually stack. In my campaign, no bonuses of any kind stack if they are fundamentally from the same source. This extends to increases and number boosts. Nightsticks don't stack. Multiple different items that increase turning attempts per day can. The ioun stone that increases caster level by 1 does not stack.
    Anthropomorphic Animals No, you can't have +6 Wis and flight at LA: +0, some are even more abusive. Banned.

    Orcs And half-orcs are discouraged. This has nothing to do with power, but a campaign environment situation. You can choose orc or half-orc as your +0 LA class track race, but you'd have orc mechanics and say hobgoblin or bugbear appearance, or something. The reason will come up very early in the campaign.

    Exalted feats, characters, and paladins: Not banned, but sharply restricted. I treat LG/CG paladins the same, consider them exalted, and group them with exalted feats. The party must accept those restrictions placed on them. So you need a vote or consensus for approval. This goes double for Vow of non-violence, and triple for Vow of peace.
    Vile classes and feats, LE/CE Paladins: That is too evil, all banned. This monsters as PC's, not team EVIL as well.

    Initiate of the Faerie Mysteries: Because the only bonus anyone ever chooses, is given to the party for free. See house rules.

    No Dark Chaos Shuffle. You can only use the spell on real feats you chose, not say elven weapon proficiencies. If you make it a dark chaos feat, then change it back, you get what you started with. You don't pick again. Retraining is fully available, though.

    Disjunction: does not exist in any form. As you near 9th level spells, I plan to develop a replacement aoe anti-magic spell. This will be considerable more potent than reaving dispel. It will not destroy permanent magic items or artifacts, but may have a save for each or be suppressed for 10 rounds or more.

    Dastana and Chahar-Aina: The rules are not entirely clear, but the most logical is you now have 4 slots instead of two, for things like heavy fortification. Chain shirt is very good, this makes no one wear anything else, ever.

    Venomfire: I pointed out once a 5th level druid can potentially do 20d6 a round with this, for 5 hours. With one spell slot, and it continues to scale from there. Campaign unbalancing with moderate effort, banned. The dinosaur many take for it at 4th level is in play.

    Spoiler: My promises as DM
    Show
    I promise to make a great effort to provide fair challenges to the party. I can kill you at any time. "Rocks fall, everybody dies." I won't do that, and though horrifically bad rolls can't be completely prevented, I won't present unfair situations.
    This is Faerun, there are always people more powerful than you. If you move in the direction of hopeless challenges, I will provide multiple fair warnings. Don't do things absurdly stupid. Sigil exists. Do not investigate the nature of the Lady of Pain.

    D&D is quite violent. Many people and things will try to kill you. Some in particularly unpleasant ways. Others view all mammals, including you, as food. I try not to be too graphic, please PM or equivalent me if something is starting to happen that bothers you. But violence and death will happen a lot. The Forgotten Realms is a high magic setting, even for D&D. Death is reversible, eventually not even a big obstacle.

    Many enemies you fight are evil. Others are EVIL. Others go into outright **EVIL**. They do really, really terrible things. Honestly, most people are happier not knowing about that. I know the details consistently, and can provide them. If you rescue some villagers captured by the ogre tribe, it was a bad time. You might want to just have an epic battle with the ogres, return the captives to their relatives to much back-patting and hopefully monetary rewards, and leave it at that.

    Spoiler: Posting frequency
    Show
    I have M-F job that has sharply limited internet access, including this site. My goal is to respond as necessary every night. I have a Friday night video game raid session, I may have to put off very detailed responses until Saturday. I have a family reunion in a park for a few days in August, but otherwise I want to move things along quickly. I'm asking for responses at least twice a week, every night would be ideal but not realistic or fair. If you have to be away for more than three days I'd like you to appoint another player (i.e. not me) to handle your turn for you.

    Otherwise posting expectations will lean to what party consensus or preference is.

    Spoiler: Campaign Gestalt Races
    Show
    Spoiler: Hound Archon
    Show
    Hound Archon, which is in the SRD. LA is +1 per the LA assignment thread.

    Racial Traits:
    • Starting Ability Score Adjustments: +2 Str.
      Speed: Hound Archon land speed is 40 feet.
      Darkvision 60', and Low-light vision (2Xhuman)
      Automatic Languages: Common, Celestial. Bonus languages: regional, Infernal, Abyssal, and as class.
      Lawful and good subtype, even if its current alignment is neither.
      +4 racial bonus on saves against poison.

    Class Skills:
    The hound archon's class skills are: Diplomacy, Stealth, Acrobatics, Perception, Sense Motive, Survival, Athletics, Knowledge(the Planes) and by class.
    While in canine form, the hound archon gains a +4 circumstance bonus on Hide and Survival checks.
    Class Features:
    Weapon and Armor proficiency: As outsiders, hound archons are proficient with simple and martial weapons. Armor and shield proficiencies are only gained by class levels.
    Bite: A bite is a natural attack. Beginning at 1st level, a hound archon deals 1d4 points of damage plus its Strength modifier when making a bite attack. At 3rd level the base damage rises to 1d6, and at 5th level to 1d8. Because a bite is a natural attack, a hound archon can use the full attack to attack with a melee weapon and follow up with its bite attack as a secondary attack with a -5 penalty. A bite as a secondary attack adds only one half its strength modifier. It does get iterative attacks (multiple attacks with the same weapon at a cumulative -5 penalty), if it is entitled to any, with its melee weapon (but not with its bite) when using such an attack routine.
    Slam: If a hound archon does not have a melee weapon equipped (or chooses not to use it), it may use its bite as a primary attack and a slam as a secondary attack. This does 1d4 damage plus one-half its strength modifier.
    Spell-Like Abilities: The hound archon has spell-like abilities that it casts at its character level. The hound archon can cast detect evil and message at will. The hound archon can cast aid and continual flame a number of times per day equal to its character level. At level 7, the hound archon can cast aid and continual flame at will.
    Teleport: The hound archon gains improving and increasing use of a teleport ability as it advances. This is a (Su) ability. All of these are limited to self only and 50 lbs of objects. No creatures of any type are allowed, excepting familiars. These are all cast at character level, or caster level 14, whichever is higher.
    At level 1, the hound archon may cast dimension door once per day per character level. At level 4, the hound archon may substitute 1 use of teleport for dimension door, increasing teleport usage by one per character level. At level 6, the hound archon may substitute greater teleport once per day for a use of dimension door. At level 7, dimension door, teleport, and greater teleport are usable at-will. For example, a level 6 hound archon has 6 uses of dimension door per day. 3 of these may be teleport, and 1 may be greater teleport.
    Change Shape (Su): A hound archon can assume any canine form of small or medium size. While in canine form, the hound archon loses its bite, slam, and weapon attacks, but gains the bite attack of the form it chooses. For the purposes of this ability, canines include any doglike or wolflike animal of the animal type.
    At level 5, the hound archon can assume a canine form of large size.
    Aura of Menace:Detailed in the MM 3.5 or SRD, -1 penalty at 3rd level, -2 penalty at 6th. This generally cannot be suppressed, save for antimagic effects and dead magic zones. If it somehow is in some other way, the hound archon can reactivate it once a turn as a free action, but only during its turn.
    Immunity to petrification.
    Electrical resistance: A hound archon gains increasing electrical resistance as it levels. At level 7, it gains electrical immunity.
    A hound archon's natural weapons, as well as any weapons it wields, are treated as good-aligned and lawful-aligned for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
    Spell-like abilities: A hound archon casts these at its character level. They can cast detect evil and message at-will. They get increasing uses of aid and continual flame as they advance, until level 7 when they become at-will.
    Scent
    Tongues(Su): As MM 3.5/SRD, caster level 14 always active.
    Protection from Evil: A hound archon has a constant effect of protection from evil. This is a (Su) ability, and is similar in restriction to aura of menace, above.
    Magic Circle against Evil: A hound archon at level 5 gains a constant effect of magic circle against evil. This is a (Su) ability, and replaces the protection from evil effect.
    Spell Resistance: A hound archon has a spell resistance of 10+character level.

    Hound Archon:
    Level Hit Dice BAB Fort Ref Will Skill Points Special
    1st 1d8 +1 +2 +2 +2 (10+ Int mod) Feat, +1 natural armor, bite 1d4, slam 1d4, dimension door, protection from evil
    2nd 2d8 +2 +3 +3 +3 (10+ Int mod) +2 natural armor, electrical resistance 5
    3rd 3d8 +3 +3 +3 +3 (10+ Int mod) Feat, +3 natural armor, aura of menace -1, bite 1d6
    4th 3d8 +3 +3 +3 +3 --- +6 natural armor, +2 Con, +2 Wis, electrical resistance 10, teleport
    5th 4d8 +4 +4 +4 +4 (10+ Int mod) +7 natural armor, change shape: large canine, bite 1d8, magic circle against evil
    6th 5d8 +5 +4 +4 +4 (10+ Int mod) +8 natural armor greater teleport, aura of menace -2, electrical resistance 15
    7th 6d8 +6 +5 +5 +5 (10+ Int mod) +9 natural armor, greater teleport at will, spell-likes at-will, electrical immunity, +2 str (total +4 str)
    Spoiler: Janni
    Show
    Janni (psionic variant):

    Racial Traits:
    • Starting Ability Score Adjustments: +2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Int.
      Bonus Feat: Improved Initiative.
      Speed: Janni land speed is 30 feet.
      Darkvision 60'
      Automatic Languages: Common, regional Bonus languages: Celestial, Infernal, Abyssal, Aquan, Terran, Ignan, Auran, and as class.
      Elemental Endurance (see SRD)

    Class Skills:
    The janni's class skills are: Appraise, Concentration, Craft (any, taken individually), Escape Artist, Perception, Stealth, Ride, Sense Motive and by class.
    Class Features:
    Weapon and Armor proficiency: As outsiders, janni are proficient with simple and martial weapons. Janni begin able to use light armor and medium armor, but not shields.
    As a native outsider, a janni must eat, drink, sleep, and breathe.
    Psi-Like Abilities: The janni has psi-like abilities that it casts as it advances in level.
    Concealing Amorpha: beginning at 2nd level, the janni may cast this at manifester level 12 1/day. At 4th level, 2/day, and 6th level 3/day.
    Sustenance:A janni may cast sustenance at manifest level 7 1/day.
    Telempathic Projection: beginning at 2nd level, the janni may cast this at manifest level 12 1/day. At 4th level 2/day, and 6th level 3/day.
    Ethereal Jaunt, Psionic.Beginning at 5th level, the janni may cast this 1/day at manifester level 12. At 5th level the duration is 12 rounds. At 6th level, 12 minutes. At 7th level, up to 12 hours.
    Change Size (Psi): Beginning at 3rd level, the janni may manifest either of the powers of expansion or reduction 1/day. At 5th level, 2/day. The manifester level is equal to character level, but neither can be augmented so they last 1 minute/level.
    At 4th level, a janni gains a +1 Natural armor bonus.
    Fire resistance: A janni gains fire resistance 5 at level 2. At level 4, the janni gains fire resistance 10.
    Flight: A janni may fly with good maneuverability at speed 10' at level 4. At level 6, 20'.
    Plane Shift: Beginning at 5th level, a janni may manifest plane shift (self only) 2/day. At 6th level, 4/day. At 7th level, the janni gains unlimited use of plane shift, self and up to 8 others.
    Telepathy: Beginning at 3rd level, a janni has constant telepathy at 30' range. At 5th level, 60'. At 7th level, 100'.

    Janni:
    Level Hit Dice BAB Fort Ref Will Skill Points Special
    1st 1d8 +1 +2 +2 +2 (10+ Int mod) Feat, fire resistance 5, sustenance 1/day. +2 Str, Dex, and Int.
    2nd 2d8 +2 +3 +3 +3 (10+ Int mod) Concealing amorpha 1/day, telempathic projection 1/day, +2 Wis.
    3rd 3d8 +3 +3 +3 +3 (10+ Int mod) Feat, Change size 1/day, Telepathy 30', +2 Con, Cha.
    4th 3d8 +3 +3 +3 +3 --- +1 natural armor, fire resistance 10, Concealing amorpha 2/day, tele. proj. 2/day, +2 Str(now +4), +2 Int(+4), +2 Wis(+4)
    5th 4d8 +4 +4 +4 +4 (10+ Int mod) Change size, 2/day, Ethereal Jaunt, 12 rounds, Plane Shift, self 2/day, Telepathy 60', +2 Dex(+4)
    6th 5d8 +5 +4 +4 +4 (10+ Int mod) Ethereal Jaunt, 12 minutes, Plane Shift, self 4/day.
    7th 6d8 +6 +5 +5 +5 (10+ Int mod) Ethereal Jaunt, 12 hours, Plane Shift, self and 8 other, unlimited, Telepathy 100', +2 Str(+6)
    Spoiler: Unicorn
    Show
    How does this unicorn progression sound?

    Level BAB__Fort__Ref___Will___Special
    1___+1.00 +2.50 +2.50 +0.33 detect evil (at will), Horn 1d6, Scent, Wild Empathy (+2), +2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Wis, +4 Cha, +2 natural armor
    2___+2.00 +3.00 +3.00 +0.67 cure light wounds (3/day), 2 Hooves 1d3, Horn (+1), Move Silently +2, +2 Str, +2 Con, +2 Wis, +2 Cha, +1 natural armor
    3___-_____-_____-_____-____Horn (+2), neutralize poison (1/day), Speed 50 ft, Wild Empathy (+4), +2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Wis, +2 Cha, +1 natural armor
    4___+3.00 +3.50 +3.50 +1.00_cure moderate wounds (1/day), Move Silently +4, Large size, +2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Wis, +2 Cha, +1 natural armor
    5___+4.00 +4.00 +4.00 +1.33_magic circle against evil, Horn (+3), Speed 60 ft, Wild Empathy (+6), +2 Str, +2 Con, +2 Wis, +4 Cha, +1 natural armor

    Note: Campaign Races and details are continued in post #14. Guess there's a reason people reserve them. (50,000 limit comes fast)
    Last edited by Covenant12; 2019-07-05 at 10:04 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Troll in the Playground
     
    DaOldeWolf's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Mexico
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's [OOC]

    Here are the char and his familiar sheets for convenience. Luin Whitefur and Mark

    Assuming that we pick colors for our chars, I would like to pick Dark Green.

    I will look into the requests about char info and answer them later today.

    Thanks!
    Thanks to Emperor Ing for the awesome avvy.

    Quote Originally Posted by jidasfire View Post
    On a long enough scale, every OOTS forum discussion turns into a debate about alignment, Miko, or Familicide.
    It can also turn into a Star wars debate.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2013

    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's [OOC]

    If nobody objects Hobbes will use orange. I'll make his speaking out loud bold so it's a little easier to read and internal thoughts will be italicized. While I do have a background written, I'm not entirely attached to it and if anyone wants to create a background where our characters know each other; feel free to hit me up. Anyways here is my character sheet for anyone that wants to look at it or put it in a table. Hobbes the Weretiger

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Stevesciguy's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    In your base
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's [OOC]

    Zarakiel The Celestial paladin, at your service. Probably gonna go with blue.

    Need to do feats and equipment, mechanic-wise. Fluff wise I need to come up with something a tad more specific than "scouting for his boss"

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    JNAProductions's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Fighting Demons!

    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's [OOC]

    Lassy will talk in Boldenrod.
    I have a LOT of Homebrew!

    Current Avatar by Elder Tsofu, who is awesome!

    Spoiler: Former Avatars
    Show
    Spoiler: Avatar (Not In Use) By Professor Gnoll!
    Show


    Spoiler: Avatar (Not In Use) By Cdr. Fallout!
    Show

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Troll in the Playground
     
    PirateWench

    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's [OOC]

    Lei will speak in bold Purple

    decide on a reason you were in Sundabar, - updated backstory to include Hobbes the weretiger and why we came to sundabar

    and on the Athasian Human LA+1 down to zero - it works for me, just means janni gets better

    Edits
    Psion 3 // Janni 3 - changed

    janni 3rd Change size 1/day, Telepathy 30', +2 Con, Cha. - changed

    str 14 dex 16 con 16(18) int 22 wis 12 cha 10(12) - changed
    hp would goto 36 - changed
    bab goes to 3 - changed
    saves wont change
    pick up 8 skill points - changed
    pickup janni BF:Extend Power
    Expanded Knowledge (astral construct - maybe)

    so that is all done
    Last edited by samduke; 2019-06-11 at 07:05 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Stevesciguy's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    In your base
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's [OOC]

    About what year is it, in-game?

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Troll in the Playground
     
    tonberryking's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Wandering
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's [OOC]

    Ellenallen Will use this color for speaking. Assuming I got in?

    I know people were talking about sharing backstories but as usual, I seemed to have made a loner. She's probably only recently gotten free of the wizard who dragged her from a battlefield and experimented on her; so Sundabar was probably the closest big city she could find.
    <BananaPhone> Stop sniveling worm! You think something as petty as "oh boo hoo my house is collapsing!" should stop you from posting in an online fantasy game where people pretend to be werewolves?

    "Let me get this straight. Some guy dressed up as Batman to fight the guys dressing up as clowns scaring people. Maybe this planet aint so bad after all."

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Troll in the Playground
     
    PirateWench

    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's [OOC]

    Quote Originally Posted by JonU View Post
    if anyone wants to create a background where our characters know each other; Hobbes the Weretiger
    it could be fun to work out something hit me up PM wise.. I'll be your Calvin - albeit - female version
    Last edited by samduke; 2019-06-10 at 09:26 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2013

    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's [OOC]

    Quote Originally Posted by samduke View Post
    it could be fun to work out something hit me up PM wise.. I'll be your Calvin - albeit - female version
    I'll be your huckleberry. Rofl
    That's all that I could think of when I read your post.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Troll in the Playground
     
    DaOldeWolf's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Mexico
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's [OOC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Covenant12 View Post
    One question worth answering here: Why are you in Sundabar, and how did you get here? It is a fairly northern frontier city, a small number of days east of Silverymoon and even closer to a large desert. (Anauroch? Forget the name) Mountains and forests and related terrain types are common. It has seasons, but they tend to colder than normal.

    Language: Detail I'd left out, in Forgotten Realms nearly everyone has a Regional language. In addition to race, common, and bonus languages. Common absolutely exists, but is closer to a pidgin/trade language not suited for complex things like siege defense or art appreciation. Chondathan and Iluskan are the most common near here, in that order. More bizarre backgrounds, especially outsiders recently arrived to the material plane (especially with tongues always active) may not know one. If you were born on Faerun you very likely do.
    Now, its time to answer the questions from the DM before I go to sleep.

    For the Sundabar question, I think my char is looking for the statue on his backstory since he has heard that it might be in this city.

    As for the language question, I suppose I Will go for Illuskan if we have to pick between those two languages. It sounds more appropiate.
    Thanks to Emperor Ing for the awesome avvy.

    Quote Originally Posted by jidasfire View Post
    On a long enough scale, every OOTS forum discussion turns into a debate about alignment, Miko, or Familicide.
    It can also turn into a Star wars debate.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Troll in the Playground
     
    PirateWench

    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's [OOC]

    Quote Originally Posted by JonU View Post
    I'll be your huckleberry. Rofl
    That's all that I could think of when I read your post.
    yeah its great.. I updated backstory to include hobbes and most likely reason to be in sundabar.
    *note story may yet be modified pending collaboration efforts

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2013

    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's [OOC]

    I'll get to work on my background and work you in there. I'll PM you in a little bit with it and we can tweak here and there.

    I think background is done. What do you think Sam? Pending any minor changes, I do need to go back and fix some grammatical errors, but I'll probably fix them when I get home Friday.

    I think this will be an interesting campaign and I'm looking forward to it!
    Last edited by JonU; 2019-06-11 at 05:07 PM.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Orc in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    New Jersey, doh.
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's [OOC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevesciguy View Post
    About what year is it, in-game?
    Fairly standard for 3.5.

    1372 Dale-Reckoning (DR), The Year of Wild Magic. Uktar, which for sanity's sake you can just think of as November. Months are all 30 days long, 3 weeks (tendays) which are 10 days each. When in Uktar I'm deciding.
    As I mentioned very briefly, past events are pretty close to accurate, feel free to look up Faerun history. Future events I have no intention of following, it will rapidly diverge.

    I'll try to do what I can on character sheets tonight. I don't expect to seriously look at all seven this evening but will before Friday.

    Hmm, I'll try to add your adventurer's kit contents tonight. In this post.

    PHB II basics: Backpack, Belt Pouch, Bedroll, Flint and Steel, Two sunrods, 10 days trail rations, 2 waterskins. Add winter blanket, Crowbar, 10 candles, 1 continual flame on object of choice, 2 torches, 5 tindertwigs, small steel mirror, 5 empty sacks. Also everyone generally has two outfits of choice, except royal's outfit which you'd have to pay for. There will be chances to buy anything else you need before you leave the city, as well.
    Spoiler: More Gestalt Races
    Show
    Spoiler: Faerie Dragon
    Show
    Faerie Dragon (3.5, Draconomicon): LA: +0

    Racial Traits:
    • Starting Ability Score Adjustments: +2 Dex, +2 Wis, +2 Cha
      Small Size.
      Speed: a Faerie Dragon land speed is 30 feet.
      Swim: a Faerie Dragon swim speed is 30 feet. (standard +8 to swim checks, can take 10 and such)
      Fly Speed: a Faerie Dragon has a fly speed that improves with level.
      Darkvision 60'. Low-light vision (2X human normal)
      Automatic Languages: Draconic, Sylvan, regional (common if from class track or as bonus) Bonus languages: Common, Elven, Gnome, and as class.

    Class Skills:
    The Faerie Dragon's class skills are: Athletics, Bluff, Diplomacy, Stealth, Intimidate, Knowledge (all skills, taken individually), Perception, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Survival, and by class.
    Class Features:
    Weapon and Armor proficiency: Faerie Dragons are not proficient with any weapon or armor (save bite and claw), and must gain it from class levels.
    Natural Weapons: A Faerie Dragon has a Bite (1d6+Str) and 2 claw(1d4+0.5*Str) attacks, which can be used in a full attack action.
    Spell-Like Abilities: The Faerie Dragon has spell-like abilities that it casts as it advances in level. These (and only these) spell-like abilities are cast at it's HD+4.
    At will: Dancing Lights, Detect Magic, Ghost Sound.
    Charm Monster, Major Image, Obscuring Mist: These may be cast 1/day at 4th level, 2/day at 6th level, and 3/day at 8th level.
    Entangle, Glitterdust, Invisibility: These may be cast 1/day at 3rd level, 2/day at 5th level, and 3/day at 7th level.
    Mind Fog, Project Image: These may be cast 1/day at 6th level.
    Animate Objects, Summon Nature's Ally 4.: These may be cast 1/day at 7th level.
    Commune with nature: This may be cast 1/month at 8th level.
    Natural Armor: A Faerie Dragon gets a natural armor bonus of half it's Faerie Dragon RHD. (round down, minimum 1)
    Flight: A Faerie Dragon may fly at 30' with average maneuverability at level 3. At level 5, 60' with good maneuverability. At level 7, 100' with perfect manueverability.
    Breath Weapon: A Faerie Dragon has one type of breath weapon, a cone of euphoric gas that dazes creatures in its area of effect. The DC of this breath weapon is Con-based. This has a cooldown of 1d4 rounds. (note for clarity: meaning if you roll a '1' you can use it back-to-back) At level 1 the cone is 5' and daze is 1d2 rounds. At level 3, the cone is 10' and 1d4 rounds. At level 5, the cone is 20' and 1d4 rounds. At level 7, the cone is 20' and 1d6 rounds. Willpower save to resist.
    Spell resistance: A Faerie Dragon has spell resistance of it's HD+10.
    Immunity to magic sleep affects and paralysis.
    Scent: standard 30' range.
    Water Breathing: Can breathe air or water, always active.


    Faerie Dragon:
    Level Hit Dice BAB Fort Ref Will Skill Points Special
    1st 1d12 +1 +2 +2 +2 (8+ Int mod) Feat, +2 Dex, +2 Wis, +2 Cha.
    2nd 2d12 +2 +3 +3 +3 (8+ Int mod) +2 Int
    3rd 3d12 +3 +3 +3 +3 (8+ Int mod) Feat, +2 Dex(now+4), +2 Str.
    4th 4d12 +4 +4 +4 +4 (8+ Int mod) +2 Wis(+4), +2 Con.
    5th 5d12 +5 +4 +4 +4 (8+ Int mod) Feat, +2 Dex(+6), +2 Cha(+4)
    6th 6d12 +6 +5 +5 +5 (8+ Int mod) +2 Int(+4), +2 Wis(+6)
    7th 7d12 +7 +5 +5 +5 (8+ Int mod) Feat, +2 Dex(+8), +2 Cha(+6)
    8th 8d12 +8 +6 +6 +6 (8+ Int mod) See description.
    Spoiler: Centaur
    Show

    Centaur (3.5, SRD): LA: +1

    Racial Traits:
    • Starting Ability Score Adjustments: +2 Dex, -2 Int
    • Medium Size. A centaur gains large size at level 5. At this point it is 5'X10' (large, long) with a reach of 5'.
    • Speed: a Centaur's land speed is 40 feet. This becomes 50 feet at level 3.
    • Darkvision 60'.
    • Automatic Languages: Elven, Sylvan (common if from class track or as bonus) Bonus languages: Common, Gnome, Halfling, and as class.

    Class Skills:
    The Centaur's class skills are: Athletics, Stealth, Craft (all skills, taken individually), Perception, Survival, and by class.
    Class Features:
    Weapon and Armor proficiency: Centaurs are proficient with all simple weapons, the lance, the longsword, the mighty composite longbow, and hooves, but with no armor or shields.
    Additional weapon and armor proficiences can come from class levels.
    Centaurs count as nonhumanoid creatures for determining the cost of armor.
    Natural Weapons: A centaur begins with 2 hooves (1d4+0.5*Str), as secondary attacks, which can be used in a full attack action. This can be combined with weapon attacks with iteratives. (if any)
    These hooves do 1d6 damage at level 3.
    Natural Armor: A Centaur gets natural armor as it advances, per table.
    Mounted Combat: A Centaur does double damage on a charge when equipped with a lance, as if mounted. A Centaur qualifies for the Spirited Charge and Trample feats with no prerequisites whatsoever. If the centaur does not meet the prerequisites, they apply only to the centaur.

    Centaur:
    Level Hit Dice BAB Fort Ref Will Skill Points Special
    1st 1d8 +1 +0 +2 +2 (4+ Int mod) Feat, +2 Dex, -2 Int, +1 NA, 2 hooves (1d4)
    2nd 2d8 +2 +0 +3 +3 (4+ Int mod) +2 Str, +2 Wis.
    3rd 2d8 +2 +0 +3 +3 --- +2 Str(Now +4), +2 Dex(+4), +2 Con, +2 NA, 2 hooves (1d6), Speed 50'.
    4th 3d8 +3 +1 +4 +4 (4+ Int mod) Feat, Str +2(+6), +2 Con(+4), +3 NA.
    5th 4d8 +4 +1 +4 +4 (4+ Int mod) +2 Str(+8), Large Size.
    Spoiler: Astral Deva
    Show
    Astral Deva (3.5, SRD. 3.0 notes are in Savage Species as well, some changed for 3.5.): LA: +2

    Racial Traits:
    • Starting Ability Score Adjustments: +2 Str, +2 Cha.
    • Medium Size.
    • Speed: An Astral Deva's land speed is 50 feet.
    • Fly Speed: An Astral Deva has a fly speed that improves with level.
    • Darkvision 60'. Low-light vision (2X human normal)
    • Automatic Languages: Celestial, Infernal, Draconic and see Tongues (common if from class track or as bonus) Bonus languages: Common and as class.

    Class Skills:
    The Astral Deva's class skills are: Craft(all skills, taken individually), Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Knowledge(all skills, taken individually), Perception, Profession(all skills, taken individually), Sense Motive, Stealth, and by class.
    Class Features:
    Weapon and Armor proficiency: An Astral Deva is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, but not with armor or shields.
    Uncanny Dodge: Starting at 2nd level, an astral deva is never caught flat-footed. At 7th level and beyond, it cannot be flanked.
    Save vs. Poison: +4 racial bonus.
    Spell-Like Abilities: The Astral Deva has many spell-like abilities, separated into Lesser, Normal, and Greater Deva powers.
    Lesser Deva Powers: Cure Light Wounds, Aid, Continual Flame, Detect Evil, Dispel Magic, Invisibility sphere (self only), remove curse, remove disease, remove fear, and see invisibility. At third level, it may use these 1/day. At 5th level, it may use these 3/day. At 8th level it can use cure light wounds and see invisibility 7 times per day and the others at will.
    Normal Deva Powers: Discern Lies, Dispel Evil, Holy Smite. Starting at 6th level, it may use these 1/day. At 8th level, 3/day. At 10 level, at will.
    Greater Deva Powers: Blade Barrier, Heal, Holy Aura, Holy Word. At 11th level, it may use these 1/day. At 13th, it may use holy aura and holy word 3/day. At 14th, holy aura and holy word at-will.
    Natural Armor: An Astral Deva gets a natural armor that progresses with level.
    Flight: An Astral Deva may fly at 30' with average maneuverability at level 2. At level 4, 50' with average maneuverability. At level 7, 75' with good maneuverability. At level 10, 100' with good maneuverability.
    Spell resistance: An Astral Deva has spell resistance of it's character level+10.
    Resistances: An astral deva is resistant to certain energy types, see table.
    Immunities: At 3rd level and beyond, an astral deva is immune to petrification. At 12th level, the deva also becomes immune to acid and cold.
    Tongues(Su):Beginning at 3rd level, an astral deva can speak with any creature that has a language. Caster level is astral deva level. This is always active, but the deva can disable as a free action, and reenable it as a free action on its next turn.
    Protective Aura(Su): At first level, the deva benefits from protection from evil at all times. At 5th level, as a free action, it can surround itself with a nimbus of light having a radius of 20 feet. This light acts as a magic circle against evil (but providing +4 bonuses instead of +2 bonuses). At 7th level, the protective aura also functions as a minor globe of invulnerability. The caster level for these effects is it's character level. This can be dispeled, but the deva can create it again on its next turn as a free action.
    Stun(Su): Starting at 9th level, if an astral deva strikes an opponent twice in 1 round with a melee weapon, that creature must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 character level +Str Mod) or be stunned for 1d6 rounds.
    Astral Deva:
    Level Hit Dice BAB Fort Ref Will Skill Points Special
    1st 1d8 +1 +2 +2 +2 (10+ Int mod) Feat, +2 Str, +2 Cha, good subtype, +1 NA.
    2nd 2d8 +2 +3 +3 +3 (10+ Int mod) +2 Dex, Uncanny dodge(flat-footed), resistance(electricity 5, fire 5), Fly 30' (average), +2 NA.
    3rd 3d8 +3 +3 +3 +3 (10+ Int mod) Feat, +2 Str(Now +4), +2 Con, Lesser Deva Powers 1/day, immunities (petrification), Tongues, +3 NA.
    4th 4d8 +4 +4 +4 +4 (10+ Int mod) +2 Int, +2 Cha(+4), Fly 50' (average), +4 NA.
    5th 5d8 +5 +4 +4 +4 (10+ Int mod) Feat, +2 Str(+6) +2 Wis, Protective Aura(magic circle against evil), Lesser deva powers 3/day, +5 NA.
    6th 5d8 +5 +4 +4 +4 --- +2 Dex (+4), +2 Con(+4), +2 Int(+4), +2 Wis(+4), +2 Cha(+6), DR: 5/evil, Deva Powers 1/day, +7 NA.
    7th 6d8 +6 +5 +5 +5 (10+ Int mod) +2 Str(+8), +2 Dex(+6), Uncanny dodge(flanked), protective aura(minor glove of invulnerability), Fly 75' (good), +8 NA.
    8th 7d8 +7 +5 +5 +5 (10+ Int mod) Feat, +2 Con(+6), Resistances(electricity 10, fire 10), Lesser deva powers 7/day or at-will, Normal Deva Powers 3/day, DR: 10/evil, +9 NA.
    9th 8d8 +8 +6 +6 +6 (10+ Int mod) +2 Int(+6), Stun, +10 NA.
    10th 9d8 +9 +6 +6 +6 (10+ Int mod) Feat, +2 Wis(+6),Flight 100' (good), Normal Deva Powers at-will, +11 NA.
    11th 10d8 +10 +7 +7 +7 (10+ Int mod) +2 Str(+10), +2 Cha(+8), Greater Deva Powers 1/day, +12 NA.
    12th 10d8 +10 +7 +7 +7 --- +2 Dex(+8), +2 Con(+8), +2 Int(+8), +2 Wis(+8), Immunities(acid, cold), +13 NA.
    13th 11d8 +11 +7 +7 +7 (10+ Int mod) Feat, +2 Str(+12), Greater Deva Powers 1/day or 3/day, +14 NA.
    14th 12d8 +12 +8 +8 +8 (10+ Int mod) +2 Cha(+10), Greater Deva Powers 1/day or at-will, +15 NA.
    Spoiler: Wooden Protector
    Show
    Wooden Protector: Link to stats: LA: +0

    Racial Traits:
    • Starting Ability Score Adjustments: +2 Str, +2 Con, +2 Wis. -4 Int, -2 Cha. Wooden Protectors are strong, tough, alert, and insightful. But they don't favor formal education or social skills.
    • Medium Size.
    • Speed: A Wooden Protector's land speed is 30 feet. (and see Natural Movement)
    • Low-light vision (2X human normal)
    • Automatic Languages: Sylvan, regional (common if from class track or as bonus) Bonus languages: Common, Elven, Gnome, and as class.

    Class Skills:
    The Wooden Protector's class skills are: Knowledge (nature), perception, survival, and by class.
    Class Features:
    Weapon and Armor proficiency: Wooden Protectors are proficient with any weapon made by Create Weapon (simple or martial), but not with any external weapon inherently. They are not proficient with any armor or shields. (plus by class)
    Create Weapon(Ex): A wooden protector can, as a free action, use its body to fashion any simple or martial weapon composed almost entirely of wood (such as bows, quarterstaffs, and spears). Weapons created in this way cannot be sundered or disarmed. If the weapon created requires ammunition (such as bows), the wooden protector takes 1 point of damage each time the weapon is fired. This damage can be regenerated as normal. Created weapons can be reabsorbed as a free action or used to create a new weapon. These cannot normally be enchanted. Magic fang/greater magic fang apply to them as if they were natural weapons, including greater magic fang's option of +1 to all natural weapons. Amulet of Natural Attacks behaves similarly.
    Spell-Like Abilities: The Wooden Protector has spell-like abilities that it casts as it advances in level. At level 2, it can cast wood shape 2/day. At level 4, 4/day. At level 6, at-will. At level 4, it may cast warp wood 1/day.
    Natural Armor: A Wooden Protector gets a +1 bonus to natural at every level after the first.
    Plant Traits: Immunity to all mind-affecting abilities. Immunity to poison, sleep, paralysis, polymorph, and stunning. Not subject to critical hits. Plants breathe and eat, but do not sleep.
    Natural Movement(Ex): A wooden protector may move through any sort of undergrowth at its normal speed without taking damage or suffering any other impairment. This ability extends to magically manipulated undergrowth such as entangle and wall of thorns.
    Regeneration(Su): At level 3, a wooden protector gains regeneration 1. At level 6, regeneration 2. Fire deals lethal damage to a wooden protector.
    Grasp of Wood (Su): As a standard action, a wooden protector can focus its gaze on a single target within 30 feet. The target must make a Reflex save or be encased in a web of wooden branches. Those who fail are entangled and cannot move, but can escape with a successful Strength or Escape Artist check. The branches last for 1d6 rounds before becoming brittle and breaking. The Reflex save and checks are Str-based. A wooden protector may use this 2/day at level 2, 4/day at level 4, and at-will at level 6.

    Wooden Protector:
    Level Hit Dice BAB Fort Ref Will Skill Points Special
    1st 1d8 +0 +2 +0 +0 (4+ Int mod) Feat, +2 Str, +2 Con, +2 Wis, -4 Int, -2 Cha.
    2nd 2d8 +1 +3 +0 +0 (4+ Int mod) +2 Str(Now +4), wood shape 2/day, NA +1, grasp of wood 2/day.
    3rd 3d8 +2 +3 +1 +1 (4+ Int mod) Feat, +2 Con(+4), regeneration 1(fire), NA +1(+2).
    4th 4d8 +3 +4 +1 +1 (4+ Int mod) +2 Wis(+4), wood shape 4/day, grasp of wood 4/day, NA +1(+3).
    5th 5d8 +3 +4 +1 +1 (4+ Int mod) Feat, +2 Str(+6), +2 Con(+6), NA +1(+4).
    6th 6d8 +4 +5 +2 +2 (4+ Int mod) +2 Str(+8), wood shape at-will, warp wood 1/day, regeneration 2 (fire), grasp of wood at-will, NA +1(+5).
    Spoiler: Weretiger
    Show
    Weretiger: LA: +1

    Note: Unlike the others in this thread, weretiger is technically a template, applied to the humanoid or giant types. It does not change the underlying type, but adds the shapechanger subtype.

    Racial Traits:
    • Starting Ability Score Adjustments(all forms): +2 Wis. Weretigers are wiser than the base creature.
    • Starting Ability Score Adjustments(animal, hybrid): +2 Str. Note that all ability scores other than +2 Wis only apply to animal or hybrid forms.
    • Size: Base size in humanoid/giant form is unchanged. In animal form, size is medium or large as listed. In hybrid form, animal or humanoid/giant, whichever is larger.
    • Speed: In humanoid/giant form and hybrid form speed is unchanged. In animal form, speed is as animal, 40'.
    • Low-light vision (2X human normal) in all forms.
    • Tiger empathy(Ex): Communicate with tigers and dire tigers, and +4 racial bonus on Charisma-based checks against tigers and dire tigers. Available in all forms.
    • Automatic Languages: Same as base creature and by class.
    • Curse of Lycanthropy (Su): Any humanoid or giant hit by a weretiger’s bite attack in animal or hybrid form must succeed on a DC 15 Fortitude save or contract lycanthropy. The DC is a function of the magical disease, not the weretiger.


    Note: Tiger form only:
    Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a weretiger in tiger form must hit with a claw or bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can rake.
    Pounce (Ex):If a weretiger in tiger form charges an opponent, it can make a full attack, including two rake attacks.
    Rake (Ex): Damage is per claw on the level chart. Attack roll is the same as claw, meaning a primary attack.

    Class Skills: The Weretiger's class skills are: Acrobatics, Athletics, Handle Animal, Perception, Stealth, Survival and by class.
    In any form, weretigers have a +4 racial bonus on Acrobatics and Stealth checks. *In areas of tall grass or heavy undergrowth, the Stealth bonus improves to +8 in the tiger form.

    Class Features:
    Alternate Form (Su):A weretiger can assume a bipedal hybrid form or the form of a tiger. Changing forms is a standard action, that does not provoke attacks of opportunity
    Weapon and Armor proficiency: A weretiger is proficient with its claws and bite, as well as those of the base creature. A weretiger does not add armor or shield proficiency, but retains them from the base creature.
    Note that armor and shields by default are absorbed into the animal or hybrid form in alternate form. Weapons are also absorbed into animal form, unless dropped prior to change form as a free action.
    Natural Armor: A Weretiger gains natural armor as he levels, which only applies in hybrid and animal form.
    Scent: A Weretiger has scent at standard 30' range. This is available in all forms.
    Damage Reduction(Ex): A weretiger has damage reduction, but only in animal and hybrid forms. This is 5/silver at 2nd level, and 10/silver at 5th level.
    Natural Attacks: Bite and claw attacks per table. In animal form, it may full attack with a bite and 2 claw attacks. The bite is the secondary attack. In hybrid form, the weretiger may use bite and claw, or weapon attack (with iteratives, if any), and a secondary bite attack.
    Feats: A weretiger starts with alertness and iron will as bonus feats.

    Weretiger:
    Level Hit Dice BAB Fort Ref Will Skill Points Special
    1st 1d8 +0 +2 +2 +0 (4+ Int mod) Feat, +2 Wis (all forms), +2 Str(animal/hybrid), Scent. 2 Claws (1d4+Str), Bite (1d6+0.5*Str), bonus feats.
    2nd 2d8 +1 +3 +3 +0 (4+ Int mod) +2 Str(Now +4) NA +1, DR 5/silver.
    3rd 3d8 +2 +3 +3 +1 (4+ Int mod) Feat, +2 Con, NA +1(+2).
    4th 3d8 +2 +3 +3 +1 ------------ +2 Str(+6), +2 Dex, Large size in animal form, 2 Claws (1d6+Str), Bite (1d8+0.5*Str),NA +1(+3).
    5th 4d8 +3 +4 +4 +1 (4+ Int mod) +2 Str(+8), +2 Con(+4), DR 10/silver
    6th 5d8 +3 +4 +4 +1 (4+ Int mod) Feat, +2 Str(+10), NA +1(+4).
    7th 6d8 +4 +5 +5 +2 (4+ Int mod) +2 Str(+12), +2 Dex(+4), NA +1(+5).

    Note that if you are adding the Giant template, this goes on the Monster track. So the result is : Giant(LA+1)/Weretiger2//Barb3 or equivalent.
    Spoiler: Miscellaneous questions and rulings
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    So, just checking: We get a base race (an LA 0 race) AND the Savage Species progression?
    Right. The savage species progression, at least in your case is the entirety of the monster track of the gestalt. At level 8 you'd need to choose something to continue the monster side.

    The class side is generally a standard race or LA: +0 one at least, with a class build. I don't need a level 20 build for this, but I'd like to know if your wizard expects to have 20 caster levels at level 20, or less than 10. For example. For point buy calculation if nothing else.
    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    Will we be using the 3.5 rule where everything and their evil stepmother is immune to precision damage or the pathfinder rule where it applies to most things?
    Likely pathfinder, but I need to see this rule first. In 3.5 rogues usually manage with the penetrating strike ACF.

    Upon review, pathfinder version. The rules are a bit scattered, please correct if in error: precision damage applies to everything except:
    Oozes,
    Elemental subtype,
    Swarms,
    Incorporeal subtype (ghost touch weapons can precision damage these as well),
    And fortification magic items or similar.

    Fine with that, please help if I have misconceptions on this. In particular, open season on sneak attack to undead and constructs.

    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions
    Also, what sort of backstory are ye looking for?
    Short is fine, roleplaying is optional.
    I do want at least some origin and background. If outsider, was your youth (or equivalent) on an outer plane or Faerun? Also where mostly on those, which plane/which region.
    Also character hooks. Overarching goals, motivations, what drives you really. Any character goal that isn't being the best murderhobo you can be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taelas View Post
    Except the DM has made it quite clear that the monster track is separate from the class track. So the question remains.
    This will take a fair bit of real-world time to come up, but is a good question.

    Main options are: advance RHD per monster book, add templates that make sense (Mineral warrior is actually explained in the rules), or start a new monster race entirely. Whether you start to look a bit like a chimera (the term, not the specific monster) or stay the singular monster appearance you prefer is up to you.

    Honestly I wouldn't be completely opposed to a monster PrC, but PrC choices would be fairly limited. The point is there's plenty of options, it may be a bit case-by-case.

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot
    Also, sorry for the double post, but since some portion of frank and k stuff is being considered, is the fire mage on the table?
    By default, no. The only ones I definitely allow are Fighter and Barbarian, some stuff gets absurd, even compared to what the PHB can do.

    That said, Fire mage could be ok. I have a gaming session Friday nights, I could give a definite yes or no tomorrow. (Saturday) One concern is you have a lot of aoe/near you fire damage and even energy immunity won't protect your party members.

    Quote Originally Posted by RoTWS
    Going for a Fangshields Druid 20. How does this unicorn progression sound?
    Fangshield druid is fine and will be convenient, I'm sure. To be similar to other monsters you have protection from evil at level 3, magic circle still at 5. Progression looks solid.

    I reserve the right to reduce Wis from unicorn by +2 or +4 if intra-party balance looks to need it. So you'd have a least +4 Wis at level 3 from unicorn. Which stacks with a +0 LA race, including pathfinder dwarf. Also house rule I forgot, Owl's insight is enhancement again and hard capped at +10. (Seriously, insight bonus to wisdom on a wisdom based caster, with decent duration? really?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevesciguy View Post
    So I noticed you edited this in:



    Do you mean stuff that's a little bit higher than 10, like maybe 12 or 13, or just anything higher than 10, with approval and any modifications you'd like to make?

    Because I don't know, maybe it'd be fun to try something as silly as a Hecatoncheires on a less silly note, I'm more asking about the difference between requesting Astral Deva and requesting something like Planetar

    Also, what did you mean by this?:
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevesciguy
    There are many fighter variants to consider if you desire that class.
    The primary ones I was thinking of were PHB 3.5, pathfinder 1.0, and Frank and K Tomes. There are other fixes I've seen on these boards, as long as they aren't adding massive complex mechanics I'd likely approve it. ToB is outright encouraged, you may be far happier and more effective as Crusader or Warblade than fighter.

    Astral deva was on the border at 12 RHD, +1 LA, and quite a few abilities. It is approved because savage species did the majority of the work. Planetar is rejected. No progression made, more HD, better stats, more abilities, cleric casting near RHD. That would take hours to puzzle over and you would have a tiny fraction of it for a long time.

    So 10 (RHD+LA) is the border. It isn't absolute, especially if someone is passionate about something and it isn't horribly complicated. Planetar is entering the horribly complicated category.

    Osclecamo's is getting firmly into case-by-case though. Hecatoncheires is rejected, hydra is banned. Many of the more normal ones are considerably weaker than the monster builds in this thread so far. Many of the less normal ones have several abilities I've never seen before and aren't explained overly well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevesciguy View Post
    Oh yeah, that feels... like it should've been obvious, now that I think about it. I do like Martial Disciples, but I've been playing a lot of them recently. Maybe I could request Path of War, the Pathfinder equivalent, but that's an awful lot of material to learn if you aren't already familiar with it.
    If you decide on Path of War you'd need to do so quite soon, that is quite a lot of material.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevesciguy
    Yeah, Hecatoncheires was intended to be a joke. I believe it falls quite firmly into the 'horribly complicated' category as well.(not to mention that I don't think there's any reasonable way to slot a budding Hecatoncheires into any game ever)

    And sorry, on Astral Deva vs Planetar I was referring to the Osclecamo progressions for those. Unless what you meant was: 'the normal Astral Deva is on the border, so the Osclecamo version might be allowed, but the normal Planetar is far away from the border, and so the Osclecamo version is not allowed'.

    It seems I'm being my usual self and complicating things by asking for weird stuff. Maybe I'll just take regular Astral Deva and whack it together with paladin(or cleric/favored soul, having just remembered the restrictions on paladin). Simple and it makes sense
    No worries. I meant 3.5 version of Astral Deva and Planetar.

    I looked at Osclecamo's version, I'm sorry but I have to go "no" on that version of Astral Deva and Planetar/Solar. Stun becomes Daze if immune stun, and can still daze immune daze targets, for 1d6 rounds. Basically every round, on melee hit. Can suppress (Su) and even (Ex)? abilities and often as well. Some of those abilities have the flaws I mentioned as abnormal races. I don't want several paragraphs explaining house rules/my rule interpretations on a single class.

    Quote Originally Posted by tonberryking View Post
    Can centaurs use a lance one handed as they are basically mounted for the purposes of other feats?
    "...as if mounted." So I'd say yes, they can. It looks like light lance/heavy lance was a 3.0, 3.5 it is just "lance". Corrected.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevesciguy View Post
    Oh, cool, progression is ready. Are the racial stat bonuses and the first level stat bonus the same?

    Also, do I get feats at the listed places on the table? I was under the impression that feats were listed in monster class tables because you don't necessarily get HD every level, and so were listed for ease of comprehension. In gestalt, because I still get HD every level, wouldn't it just get feats at the normal rate?

    I've never used an official monster class before, so I'm not sure
    Yes, the racial stat bonuses and 1st level stat bonuses are identical, and don't stack. The later ones will have +2(+6) meaning +6 is your total bonus from that monster race. It isn't exactly how some monster classes are done, I modeled it after savage species progression. On reaching the final level of the monster class, you should have all the features.

    The feats are sadly a bit misleading, it's designed for a single class monster race. Assuming you have full HD on the class track (I haven't approved any other options to this point), you get feats per pathfinder, class level 1, 3, 5, 7, etc. If your monster track gains a 7th HD at level 8 you don't get a general feat then, as you got that one already at level 7. So your impression was correct.

    @tonberryking: I was surprised on reading it, but quadruped gets X1.5 to all carrying capacity. So X3 of medium humanoid once you hit large. Centaur is quite strong and you have X1.5 carrying and X1 weight barding and weapons, so you should be under light load limit easily.

    Eldritch Glaive can be quite effective but takes some reading into it. It does not add Str bonus to damage, but it is a melee touch attack with reach that can make attacks of opportunity. Some effort into optimizing around it can be a very effective damage dealer. Well, I've been told that repeatedly, at least. It is a full-round action to use, so note you can't charge with it and can only take a 5' step.

    'Artificial' centaur fits a Monsters as PC's theme quite well, I'd roll with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by tonberryking View Post
    I think I'm going to get the Glaive, but not right now. It doesn't have the same devastation as a centaur with a lance, but I can see it coming in handy if I really on the defense or am in no position to charge. ...Which may be harder once I can fly in a few levels...

    Also, to stress: Ellenallen isn't a natural centaur so she can't speak Sylvan. I'm SURE this won't come up or anything. :V I would assume though she knows either the elvish or Sylvan phrase for "I can't speak this language" unless that's not really a thing you can do in DnD.

    ...One other thing: Will I have to re-buy or pay for adjusting my armor if/when I hit level 6 and get to Large size? I presume it's a given that my lance will have to be sold/exchanged, but that armor is freaking expensive. I hope I don't have to re-buy it. ...Or possibly put it down as materials to get a large mithral breastplate, I suppose...
    Anyone fully fluent in Elvish would know the phrase "I can't speak Slyvan." in Slyvan. Elves and fey interact an awful lot. I am paying attention to languages in Faerun and regional languages, more to come soon. The odds look low that someone won't have constant tongues, so it won't be game-changing.

    Armor, sadly yes. Medium and large armor don't really swap, unless there's something obscure in pathfinder I missed. Weapons have the sizing property for a flat 5k gold. If you've sunk 50k+ into a weapon that can be a great deal.

    I failed to find an answer out of multiple discussions on special armor materials, size and non-humanoid shapes, so I'm calling this the house rule:

    Non-humanoid (barding) armor doubles the base price, but not the special material price. I'm viewing that based on weight, could go either way.
    Large size doubles the special material price. Large non-humanoid quadruples base price, per table. Large non-humanoid doubles the special material price.

    So:
    • Medium humanoid Mithril Chain Shirt: 1,100gp ---------- Medium humanoid Mithril Breastplate: 4,200 gp.
    • Medium non-humanoid Mithril Chain Shirt: 1,200gp ----- Medium non-humanoid Mithril Breastplate: 4,400 gp.
    • Large Humanoid Mithril Chain Shirt: 2,200 -------------- Large humanoid Mithril Breastplate: 8,400 gp.
    • Large non-humanoid Mithril Chain Shirt: 2,400 --------- Large non-humanoid Mithril Breastplate 8,800 gp.


    That may save you some gold. Incidentally, I can be generous if you decide to sell old gear that is in very common use (medium sized +1 lance) and are in no hurry. You won't get market price though, maybe 75% instead of 50%.

    Quote Originally Posted by tonberryking View Post
    I am almost certain I read this in the past, but a barbarian cannot use eldritch blasts during a rage or any SLA while raging, wanted to check, but also it seems like after the remaining centaur levels are done I plan to dip into Warmage and then Eldritch theurge.

    Apart from asking if this is ok, I wanted to confirm that if I were to gestalt warlock and ET that I would ignore the latter's invocation progression, right?
    Generally a barbarian can't use anything spell-like or resembling spell-like in a rage, no. I haven't read every warlock ability, some may well be usable.

    You can't take warmage on the monster track, that will be further monster races or templates and such. And monster race casting can't be used to power theurge classes.

    You can take warmage on the class track, take versatile spellcaster or some equivalent minor cheese to access second level arcane spells and go into eldritch theurge. So Warlock 4/Warmage 1/Eldritch TheurgeX.

    You could if you want. Levels take a bit in play by post, could also just wait and see how things develop. Advancement monster class by HD could work, but centaur advances by class. I'd allow a monster-advancing PrC, but I'm failing for centaur so far. Centaurs are eligible for arcane archer, but it honestly is bad and doesn't look to fit your build.

    Paladin is officially approved. From this point forward outright evil characters are banned. (neutral on good/evil axis mildly leaning evil can still work) Exalted feats are likewise allowed, except Vow of non-violence and Vow of peace, banned by DM fiat.

    Note that you are allowed and encouraged to be Hinjo or O-chul, and not Miko. Never go full Miko.

    Quote Originally Posted by RoTWS View Post
    Have the sheet up for my unicorn druid (still need to get more equipment), with a separate one for his animal companion.
    I'm curious, do animal companions get the bonus feats for being low-tier, or is that just for PC classes?
    No, animal companions/wild cohort get 1, 3, 5 feat progression as normal pathfinder. Note that these feats must be something a loyal animal can be encouraged to do. Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Flyby attack make sense, Mageslayer or Create Wondrous Item not so much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevesciguy View Post
    Wait, we get bonus feats based on tier? I totally missed that.
    Yep, short line under house rules: (in fairness it was a long list)

    Quote Originally Posted by House rules
    Feats are as to pathfinder, 1 per odd level base so 1, 3, 5, 7, etc. You get additional feats based on tier ranking of your class track build: 1 for T1, 2 for T2, 3 for T3+. You may take at most 1 flaw and 1 trait from UA. (see the SRD online) My limited understanding is pathfinder traits have no downsides and are close enough to feats in power, so you can choose to buy those at a cost of one feat each.
    An optimized paladin is generally T3. T4, T5, T6 get no bonus over T3.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevesciguy View Post
    Wooo, 3 free feats! What level do we effectively get these at? Are they all at first, or one each level, or? Asking because prerequisites
    I use a generous interpretation of a combination of PHB II and pathfinder rules. They are level 1 feats, but can be retrained during downtime. And generally I don't require gold payments for retraining.

    So all three can require +3 BAB and 6 ranks in a skill, if you want. (assuming you have three ranks in it and its a class skill, so you qualify for it)

    Note that while I don't enforce the Complete Warrior prereq rule (partly because it leads to nonsensical results), I'd ask that you generally keep prereqs for feats and prestige classes where you can. Retraining I will be strict that you can't lose prereq feats in this way. Buying a ring of evasion, qualifying for a PrC, then selling it is where 'over the line' begins.

    Quote Originally Posted by JonU
    I'm open to any ideas you have on the were tiger progression. Doing it the way you listed would take a little longer to get to the main thing I was after (DR/silver), but that's fine. I was wondering about one thing on the Frank and k barbarian. It says that you lose fast healing for multiclassing. I think I understand the point, but it would really suck to lose lol. I'm going to prestige to an even more narrowly focused beatstick before going back to barbarian to finish things off. Is there any way I could manage to keep it (through a feat tax or some other means). Final 20 level build would be 5barb/10prc/5barb.
    Thanks very much for both links. Bookmarked. Giant is approved as +1 LA template.

    I'll do a weretiger progression tonight. I could get DR 5/silver when we start, 10/silver would definitely be higher level.

    Note that you've mentioned Human and Orc as base race. You can't be an orc in humanoid form. If you want to look like a giant orc so mostly an ogre that might work. In pathfinder, +4 Str -2 Int/Wis/Cha is considered one of the balanced starting race set of scores. So all the numbers on your sheet could be orc, you just can't look like one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank and K Tomes, Fast Healing
    If a Barbarian ever multiclasses, he permanently loses this ability. A multiclass character does not gain this
    ability. A character with 4 or more levels of Barbarian gains this ability even if multiclassed.
    If the build starts with 5 levels of barbarian you'll keep the fast healing (when not in rage). If you want a lot of one level dips I'd probably ask for a feat for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevesciguy
    So, I think I just need to fill out my feats and equipment and I'll be ready to go. I'm not super sure how to do backstory for this guy since he's an angel - it would basically be "Pelor occasionally sends me down to smite some fools"
    Since you want to start with your paladin powers, I doubt you've made the upper planes angry so much. Meaning I'm not feeling outcast angel. You could be scouting for a higher ranking outsider to look for a specific major threat to the material plane, or just in general.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevesciguy View Post
    Putting this at 7th makes me effectively untouchable to similarly leveled sorcerers and wizards, and even for the next couple levels I'm only capable of being affected by their most powerful spells. Do we want to push it back a bit? I know it's a 4th level spell, but it still seems quite strong as an always active racial ability that I can resume at will even if it's dispelled
    Eh, good point. Somehow I was thinking 2nd level spells and lower. 7th level you are now immune to sorcerers and fixed-list arcane casters. 9th level sound better? Now all full casters have at least 2 options that get through. I'll look at it later this week, might swap it with something like stun.

    Quote Originally Posted by tonberryking View Post
    Oh, I just called her lance Thorn Lance because it sounds cool.

    I didn't know that doubling down on a crit just raised it up 1 modifier. I assumed that centaurs dealt triple the double damage, or six times damage (2x3 = 6) from a lance, but I'll take x4 if the rules say it's that way.

    Yeah, multipliers are weird. If you have a ×A and a ×B multiplier to something, rather than getting a multiplier of A×B, you get a multiplier of A+B-1
    (Stevesciguy's response that I never commented on, but it is correct for 3.5: X2 X2 = X3, X2 X3 = X4, X3 X3 = X5 and so forth. If it helps convert it to percentage increase. +100%+100%=+200% and so on.)


    Character Sheet Links:
    Character Link Player "normal" race Monster track Class track
    Lassy JNAProductions Strix (Flying Human Variant) Hound Archon Fighter
    Lei Samduke Athasian Human Janni Psion
    Ellenallen tonberryking Human? Centaur Warlock
    Name in Progress Stevesciguy Angel-Blooded Aasimar Astral Deva Paladin
    Luin Whitefur DaOldeWolf Kitsune Faerie Dragon(3.5) Arcanist
    Gerarn RoTWS Aasimar Unicorn Fangshield Druid
    Hobbes JonU Orc!!? Human? Giant(template) Weretiger Barbarian(Frank and K)
    Last edited by Covenant12; 2019-07-05 at 10:31 AM.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Troll in the Playground
     
    PirateWench

    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's [OOC]

    Quote Originally Posted by JonU View Post
    I'll get to work on my background and work you in there. I'll PM you in a little bit with it and we can tweak here and there.

    I think background is done. What do you think Sam? Pending any minor changes, I do need to go back and fix some grammatical errors, but I'll probably fix them when I get home Friday.

    I think this will be an interesting campaign and I'm looking forward to it!
    looks fine

    the game should be fun

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Orc in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    New Jersey, doh.
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's [OOC]

    Character sheets initial review:

    DaOldeWolf: Hps for 3d12 are 12, 7, 7 for 26. Presumably buffed by 3XInt bonus, and possibly favored class on top. Your point buy looks to be 22 instead of 32. Or did you use pathfinder point buy? Using 3.5 they should be higher. Is tiny size a function of your background of Kitsune? I'll allow it, but I will enforce the 0' reach on claws and bite if so. 1500 for cure light wounds wands is a lot of your starting wealth, handy as they are. I really like the background, solid possibilities.

    Joni: Hps is correct without favored class. I don't know if you spent those on skill points or alternate class features. Humans get two favored classes, and prestige classes aren't eligible, so one should be barbarian. Stats look correct, if you didn't add the pathfinder human +2 to a stat of choice. So add +2 somewhere and that should be good. Climb, Fly, and Swim are folded into Athletics. Which gives you two more points to spend (from swim)
    Note that armor (and shields) by default are absorbed in hybrid and animal forms. There are ways around that, but hard to do at level 3. You will want basic stats for human(giant), hybrid, and animal forms. And update them every level. Also you have 1500 on cure light wounds wands.
    I like the background, party enemies are accumulating rapidly. At this rate I'll need notes just for that.

    Stevesciguy: Hps should be 40 without favored class bonuses, 43 if all three. I must be getting tired because it took way too long to figure out stats, but it does look like 40 point buy.
    Background as scouting for someone of higher rank, or perhaps even an outright god are an option. There are several major threats to Faerun in the last year alone, I could give you some options to pick from for investigation. Or just be a paladin trying to do good and fight evil.

    Generally looking good so far, hoping to fully start by Sunday, if not Saturday night.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2013

    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's [OOC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Covenant12 View Post
    Joni: Hps is correct without favored class. I don't know if you spent those on skill points or alternate class features. Humans get two favored classes, and prestige classes aren't eligible, so one should be barbarian. Stats look correct, if you didn't add the pathfinder human +2 to a stat of choice. So add +2 somewhere and that should be good. Climb, Fly, and Swim are folded into Athletics. Which gives you two more points to spend (from swim)
    Note that armor (and shields) by default are absorbed in hybrid and animal forms. There are ways around that, but hard to do at level 3. You will want basic stats for human(giant), hybrid, and animal forms. And update them every level. Also you have 1500 on cure light wounds wands.
    I like the background, party enemies are accumulating rapidly. At this rate I'll need notes just for that.

    Generally looking good so far, hoping to fully start by Sunday, if not Saturday night.
    I know what happened to the +2 of one stat. I removed it from my strength score cause I couldn't remember how that +2 got there. I'll get it fixed. Maybe at some point I'll get a way to get around that for a couple skills lol (probably need a wish or minor miracle haha)

    I'll rework the skill points but once I hit the prestige class, 90% of them will be lost anyways due to a class feature.

    I've been trying to figure out ways around the armor problem, but all I'm aware of so far is wildling clasp. But it specifically states the wild shape feature only and also says it doesn't work with armor. Currently I'm at a dead end on this front. There is also the wild armor enhancement. But I have the same problem again of it specifically calling out wildshape. It's a +3 Armor bonus and requires baleful polymorph to make it.

    Yeah, I spent a bunch on wands. I couldn't really think of much to get after the armor and weapon, so I figured wands wouldn't hurt (especially with how much I'll probably be getting hit). I can't use them myself, but I have a friend that can! :)
    Last edited by JonU; 2019-06-11 at 09:54 PM.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Stevesciguy's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    In your base
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's [OOC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Covenant12 View Post
    Stevesciguy: Hps should be 40 without favored class bonuses, 43 if all three. I must be getting tired because it took way too long to figure out stats, but it does look like 40 point buy.
    Background as scouting for someone of higher rank, or perhaps even an outright god are an option. There are several major threats to Faerun in the last year alone, I could give you some options to pick from for investigation. Or just be a paladin trying to do good and fight evil.

    Generally looking good so far, hoping to fully start by Sunday, if not Saturday night.
    Oh, yeah, forgot to redo my health after my strength score was adjusted by the stat increase from my non monstrous race. Also forgot we were doing PF style favored classes

    Some options would be cool. I'm kinda thinking a bit of both - I'm down here to do good and fight evil in general, but I'm being told to keep my eyes and ears open for specific targets/phenomena.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Troll in the Playground
     
    DaOldeWolf's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Mexico
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's [OOC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Covenant12 View Post
    Character sheets initial review:

    DaOldeWolf: Hps for 3d12 are 12, 7, 7 for 26. Presumably buffed by 3XInt bonus, and possibly favored class on top. Your point buy looks to be 22 instead of 32. Or did you use pathfinder point buy? Using 3.5 they should be higher. Is tiny size a function of your background of Kitsune? I'll allow it, but I will enforce the 0' reach on claws and bite if so. 1500 for cure light wounds wands is a lot of your starting wealth, handy as they are. I really like the background, solid possibilities.
    I see. I assume that then we dont get extra HP by constitution in 3.5 then. The 3 extra HP came from there. Sorry, I Will make the change then.

    For the point buy, I used an online calculator to assist me. This one: www.propelled.de/extern/chargen Is it wrong?

    I though I was tiny sized due to being a faerie dragon. I remember you asked about my opinion on picking something so small that it could affect my carrying capacity. And I just rolled with that for char creation. If that isnt the case, I can make the change to médium.

    As for the wands, I picked those for a few reasons:
    1. We dont have a cleric so they sounded like a good extra in case we run out of healing magic.
    2. They are light so carrying capacity wasnt going to affect me.
    3. Due to lack of 3.5 material, I didnt have much to pick from so they sounded pretty solid options.
    Thanks to Emperor Ing for the awesome avvy.

    Quote Originally Posted by jidasfire View Post
    On a long enough scale, every OOTS forum discussion turns into a debate about alignment, Miko, or Familicide.
    It can also turn into a Star wars debate.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Stevesciguy's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    In your base
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's [OOC]

    Quote Originally Posted by DaOldeWolf View Post
    I see. I assume that then we dont get extra HP by constitution in 3.5 then. The 3 extra HP came from there. Sorry, I Will make the change then.
    The number covenant quoted was just the base values from HD, you still get Con to HP in 3.5. However, covenant has also ruled that you add your highest stat instead of Con to your health; Intelligence, in your case.

    So your health would be 26 from HD, +12 from Int, +your bonuses from favored class, and toughness if you have it

    Also, unless there's something on your sheet that I'm missing, your secondary natural attacks are made at a -5 penalty
    Last edited by Stevesciguy; 2019-06-11 at 09:53 PM.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Troll in the Playground
     
    PirateWench

    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's [OOC]

    huh either i did good or gm did not review Lei... ?
    my own review
    pb -> done via 3.5
    hp 3d8+con mod -> done via 3.5 (However, covenant has also ruled that you add your highest stat instead of Con to your health)
    sp 10+intx4+4 ->via 3.5 + 10+int+1 ->via 3.5 -> human rules
    I did not add in favored class (Psion) for HP or SP -> this would be HP +3
    and I guess I will wait for the review - then make changes
    Last edited by samduke; 2019-06-12 at 07:58 AM.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Troll in the Playground
     
    PirateWench

    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's [OOC]

    Quote Originally Posted by DaOldeWolf View Post
    For the point buy, I used an online calculator to assist me. This one: www.propelled.de/extern/chargen Is it wrong?
    it looks correct to me for my PB

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Orc in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    New Jersey, doh.
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's [OOC]

    Quote Originally Posted by DaOldeWolf View Post
    I see. I assume that then we dont get extra HP by constitution in 3.5 then. The 3 extra HP came from there. Sorry, I Will make the change then.

    For the point buy, I used an online calculator to assist me. This one: www.propelled.de/extern/chargen Is it wrong?

    I though I was tiny sized due to being a faerie dragon. I remember you asked about my opinion on picking something so small that it could affect my carrying capacity. And I just rolled with that for char creation. If that isnt the case, I can make the change to médium.
    Ugh. Clicked and lost my response. Anyways, Draconomicon Faerie Dragon is at base small, but your roleplay background could work well with tiny. Tiny makes you a better arcanist by a bit (ranged attack, AC, stealth), but makes melee a lot worse. (0' reach, half armor value from actual armor) Feel free to choose either.

    I wasn't trying to criticize stocking up on healing, most groups forget it or skimp a bit.

    The calculator looks correct. But you spend 32, then add bonuses. Kitsune I found for pathfinder is -2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Cha. If you use something different could matter a lot. 3rd level Faerie dragon is +2 Str, +4 Dex, + 2 Int/Wis/Cha. Total is +6 Dex, +2 Int, +2 Wis, +4 Cha. So I still got 22 point buy.

    I haven't forgotten anyone, I just got through 3 sheets last night. Going to attempt the other 4 tonight.

    Yeah, I'm actually reversing standard practice of banning Initiate of the Faerie Mysteries. (Dragon magazine, the one that matters is Int to hps instead of Con, for all levels) So I decided to give it to everyone. Important characters will have this bonus as well. Level 1 warriors won't.

    And yes, secondary natural attacks are -5 penalty. (Multiattack and Improved Multiattack feats make them -2 and -0, respectively)

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2013

    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's [OOC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Covenant12 View Post

    Yeah, I'm actually reversing standard practice of banning Initiate of the Faerie Mysteries. (Dragon magazine, the one that matters is Int to hps instead of Con, for all levels) So I decided to give it to everyone. Important characters will have this bonus as well. Level 1 warriors won't.

    And yes, secondary natural attacks are -5 penalty. (Multiattack and Improved Multiattack feats make them -2 and -0, respectively)
    Yeah, I don't think you'll ever worry about me doing int -> con lol.

    But I might re-do feats to get steadfast determination.

    I'm also planning on making a folder at myth-weavers that has a sheet for each of his forms (Friday evening). I do have one question though. Does the giant template interact with his tiger form at all? I don't feel it would affect stat bonuses any, but it would be interesting having to deal with the difficulties of being a huge tiger or hybrid later on.

    One last thing, do I have my feats all accounted for?
    1. Power Attack
    3. Steadfast determination
    Human bonus: cleave
    Bonus for class tier: improved scent, endurance, monkey grip.

    I wasn't sure if the feat mentioned in the weretiger progression is a bonus (ala fighter) or if it's just the normal feat. If it's a bonus, I haven't done anything with it.
    Last edited by JonU; 2019-06-12 at 07:41 PM.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Orc in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    New Jersey, doh.
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's [OOC]

    Quote Originally Posted by JonU View Post
    Yeah, I don't think you'll ever worry about me doing int -> con lol.

    But I might re-do feats to get steadfast determination.

    I'm also planning on making a folder at myth-weavers that has a sheet for each of his forms (Friday evening). I do have one question though. Does the giant template interact with his tiger form at all? I don't feel it would affect stat bonuses any, but it would be interesting having to deal with the difficulties of being a huge tiger or hybrid later on.
    From my reading, no. Currently medium in tiger form, large in tiger form starting level 5. Hybrid is affected by base size though (because it does for giants), so you start large in hybrid form. Huh, or SRD says I'm wrong. I'm going with large all three to start then, you don't gain huge though.

    I'm going to go with anything that works in wild shape works in various lycanthrope forms. None of which are cheap. Until you become wealthier, I'll let you refit it to hybrid form in around 5 minutes. So overland it's probably simplest to stay in hybrid form. Tiger form requires wild shape armor or tiger-shaped barding.

    JNAProductions: Hps should be 34 if d10 Fighter, up to 37 if you use favored class on that. Athletics is now combined Climb, Fly, and Swim, which may give more skill points. (or hps) I guess one big question is if you were raised primarily on the upper planes or Faerun.

    Samduke: Stats are 36 point buy as psion(edit: meaning appear correct), Hps are correct if favored class wasn't used on them. You have enough skill points to make a beguiler stomp off in disgust, so I'm just going to trust you. I gave you concealing amorpha as requested for psi-like abilities, but invisibility may be far more useful. Your call. I definitely like the background and adding more potential enemies.

    tonberryking: Hps Are d8+d8+d6, or 8+5+4+3X6=35, before favored class bonuses. I think gestalt tripped you up. You should have +2 BAB (really 2.5, but it rounds down) from 2 monstrous humanoid levels and 1 warlock level. Saves are +1/+3/+3 before stat and other adjustments.
    Note that while you can use a lance one-handed, you may not want to. Two-handed adds +3 damage with your current strength, which gets multiplied on a charge.
    There's a lot to the background, which I really like. There are multiple big magic battles and magic events that could have caused you to be in your present state. Even in the last year, "Wild Magic" and all that. We can discuss which you like best, or simply roleplay someone who doesn't yet know/can't remember.

    RotWS: Looks correct, assuming you took skill points for favored class: druid. Worth discussing if you are a plane-touched unicorn or actually have a background from the upper planes.

    Quote Originally Posted by JonU
    One last thing, do I have my feats all accounted for?
    1. Power Attack
    3. Steadfast determination
    Human bonus: cleave
    Bonus for class tier: improved scent, endurance, monkey grip.

    I wasn't sure if the feat mentioned in the weretiger progression is a bonus (ala fighter) or if it's just the normal feat. If it's a bonus, I haven't done anything with it.
    Yeah, it is a bit counter-intuitive, I apologize. That's the standard pathfinder feat assuming a single-class monster. No builds at this point had bonus feats after level 1. Feats look correct.

    Worth mentioning: Are people preferring 3.5 or PF power attack and cleave? They are quite different, I'd let you select either individually.
    Last edited by Covenant12; 2019-06-12 at 07:52 PM.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Stevesciguy's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    In your base
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's [OOC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Covenant12 View Post
    Worth mentioning: Are people preferring 3.5 or PF power attack and cleave? They are quite different, I'd let you select either individually.
    I prefer 3.5 power attack, because it's more flexible, and PF cleave, because it's way more likely to be useful.

    I know 3.5 power attack can be the basis of much cheese, but I will not be using said cheese

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2013

    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's [OOC]

    I wasn't aware they were different. I've never used either in pathfinder so I guess I'll stick with 3.5?

    Touching back on that magic item stuff. Where do I find the pricing for custom items. I would like to eventually have a wild armor (+3 bonus, baleful polymorph) and skillful added to my earthbreaker (+2 bonus, CL 11, tensors transformation). Understanding how to calculate costs is always something I struggle with no matter how much i read the rules.
    Last edited by JonU; 2019-06-12 at 09:18 PM.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Troll in the Playground
     
    tonberryking's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Wandering
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's [OOC]

    tonberryking: Hps Are d8+d8+d6, or 8+5+4+3X6=35, before favored class bonuses. I think gestalt tripped you up. You should have +2 BAB (really 2.5, but it rounds down) from 2 monstrous humanoid levels and 1 warlock level. Saves are +1/+3/+3 before stat and other adjustments.
    Note that while you can use a lance one-handed, you may not want to. Two-handed adds +3 damage with your current strength, which gets multiplied on a charge.
    There's a lot to the background, which I really like. There are multiple big magic battles and magic events that could have caused you to be in your present state. Even in the last year, "Wild Magic" and all that. We can discuss which you like best, or simply roleplay someone who doesn't yet know/can't remember.
    I'm sorry, but she has three levels of Warlock. She gets +2 BAB from that so her total BAB is still 4... Although I see from the math you've posted that you're counting me as only having three levels *total* --two centaur and 1 warlock but that then leaves me rather confused by what's actually gestalt if this is supposed to be the case. It's also going to take away at least one of her invocations and... damn. Am I going to legit have to re do my skills as well because of this?
    <BananaPhone> Stop sniveling worm! You think something as petty as "oh boo hoo my house is collapsing!" should stop you from posting in an online fantasy game where people pretend to be werewolves?

    "Let me get this straight. Some guy dressed up as Batman to fight the guys dressing up as clowns scaring people. Maybe this planet aint so bad after all."

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Stevesciguy's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    In your base
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's [OOC]

    Quote Originally Posted by tonberryking View Post
    I'm sorry, but she has three levels of Warlock. She gets +2 BAB from that so her total BAB is still 4... Although I see from the math you've posted that you're counting me as only having three levels *total* --two centaur and 1 warlock but that then leaves me rather confused by what's actually gestalt if this is supposed to be the case. It's also going to take away at least one of her invocations and... damn. Am I going to legit have to re do my skills as well because of this?
    I'm confused. We're level 3, so the highest BAB we could have is +3. How did you get +4?

    Edit: oh, I think I see what's happened here. You don't stack things across gestalt, you pick the highest [thing] from each track. Say you were gestalting a Wizard and a Fighter. You would pick the higher of the two's HD (the Fighter's), the higher of the two's BAB (the Fighter's again) and the highest of each of the saves (so you'd have good Fort saves from Fighter, good Will saves from Wizard, and poor Reflex saves because neither has good Reflex). Then, you gain all of the class features of each. So at third level, you'd have two Fighter Bonus feats from the Fighter side, and you could cast spells as a third level wizard would, from the wizard side.

    So for centaur + Warlock, remember that one of the LA levels of centaur is at 3rd, and that we're using fractional BaB and saves. So at levels 1 and 2, you'd get d8 HD, full BaB, and good Fort and reflex saves. At third, however, since the centaur side doesn't gain a HD, all your stats come solely from your Warlock side, thus granting you a d6 HD, +3/4 bab, and your will save goes up by +1/2, while your reflex and Fort saves go up by +1/3. However, you still get all of the class features of each; you invoke as a third level Warlock, while getting the stat increases, Hoof attack, and speed increase from centaur level 3

    Here's what that looks like:
    Level Total HD BAB Fort Ref Will Skill Points
    1 1d8 +1 +0.33 +2.5 +2.5 4+Int
    2 2d8 +2 +0.66 +3 +3 4+Int
    3 2d8+1d6 +2.75 +1 +3.33 +3.5 2+Int
    4 3d8+1d6 +3.75 +1.33 +3.83 +4 4+Int
    5 4d8+1d6 +4.75 +1.66 +4.33 +4.5 4+Int

    I'm not sure what happens after 5, since centaur is only 5 levels long, and I don't remember what covenant said would happen once we were finished with our monster classes
    Last edited by Stevesciguy; 2019-06-12 at 10:54 PM.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Troll in the Playground
     
    DaOldeWolf's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Mexico
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: (3.P) Monsters as PC's [OOC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Covenant12 View Post
    Ugh. Clicked and lost my response. Anyways, Draconomicon Faerie Dragon is at base small, but your roleplay background could work well with tiny. Tiny makes you a better arcanist by a bit (ranged attack, AC, stealth), but makes melee a lot worse. (0' reach, half armor value from actual armor) Feel free to choose either.

    I wasn't trying to criticize stocking up on healing, most groups forget it or skimp a bit.

    The calculator looks correct. But you spend 32, then add bonuses. Kitsune I found for pathfinder is -2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Cha. If you use something different could matter a lot. 3rd level Faerie dragon is +2 Str, +4 Dex, + 2 Int/Wis/Cha. Total is +6 Dex, +2 Int, +2 Wis, +4 Cha. So I still got 22 point buy.

    I haven't forgotten anyone, I just got through 3 sheets last night. Going to attempt the other 4 tonight.

    Yeah, I'm actually reversing standard practice of banning Initiate of the Faerie Mysteries. (Dragon magazine, the one that matters is Int to hps instead of Con, for all levels) So I decided to give it to everyone. Important characters will have this bonus as well. Level 1 warriors won't.

    And yes, secondary natural attacks are -5 penalty. (Multiattack and Improved Multiattack feats make them -2 and -0, respectively)
    Changes have been made. It is now small.

    Remade the stats. Now it should look better.
    Thanks to Emperor Ing for the awesome avvy.

    Quote Originally Posted by jidasfire View Post
    On a long enough scale, every OOTS forum discussion turns into a debate about alignment, Miko, or Familicide.
    It can also turn into a Star wars debate.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •