Results 1 to 7 of 7
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Segev's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location

    Default New Sorcerer Origin: Psionic

    This was originally posted in response to somebody's request for help making "a psychic," but I feel like it needs some critique and refinement, so I'm bringing it here for people to examine for flaws and suggest improvements. (Especially to the Power Points, which are meant to allow conversion back and forth between spell slots near-freely, but which might be too powerful if I missed anything.)

    The psionic origin has its roots in aberrations in your past, whether you're somehow descended from an illithid, or are an intellect devourer who "went native" in your stolen host and don't even remember your wicked origins, or were influenced by growing up too close to the dreams of an aboleth, or simply have a powerful mind and ego that flexes itself upon the world.


    Psionic
    Your sorcerer spellcasting is Psionic, and needs no components. You cannot learn sorcerer spells which have expensive material components, except for find familiar. When casting any sorcerer spell, you have a highly-visible manifestation of your psionic power, whether it be glowing eyes, an aura of light around your body, minor telekinetic effects lifting your hair and loose articles upwards as if in an invisible wind, or similar cosmetic but obvious effects which shed light like a candle for the duration of the casting.

    If you cast find familiar, the 100 gp component is a gem, which you imbue with a portion of your own mind to turn it into a psicrystal. It grows ectoplasmic legs and uses the statistics of a spider, though it has the Construct type and an Intelligence of 6. It otherwise functions as a normal familiar granted by the spell. You also gain the option to cast find familiar (if you know it) from a higher level spell slot with a more expensive gem. If you do, you may learn sorcerer spells which require expensive material components up to the level of spell used to create your psicrystal, and up to the value of the gem used in the casting of this spell. You will use your psicrystal as the material component for such spells; this can result in its destruction if the spell consumes the materials.

    Psionic Power Points
    At 6th level, when you convert a Sorcerer spell slot into Sorcery Points, you also gain a number of Psionic Power Points equal to the difference between the number of Sorcery Points you obtain and the number it would cost to create a spell slot of that level. Psionic Power Points do not count against your Sorcery Point maximum (and you may store as many of them as you have sorcerer levels), but you end every Short and Long Rest with 0 of them. Psionic Power Points behave like Sorcery Points and can be spent along side them for metamagic and creation of spell slots. However, any metamagic or spell slot even partially paid for with Psionic Power Points must be augmenting a Sorcerer spell cast from a Sorcerer spell slot (never Pact Magic or a spell learned from any other source). Additionally, any spell slot created by even partially spending Psionic Power Points must be spent immediately on a Sorcerer Spell; as such, the creation of the spell slot becomes part of the casting action, rather than a separate bonus action, when even partially paid for by Psionic Power Points.

    Psionic Power Points may also increase a purchased spell slot beyond 5th by spending 2 for every additional level, up to a maximum of a 9th level spell slot (for 15 SP+PP). At least one Psionic Power Point must be spent on any purchased spell slot over 5th level.

    You cannot spend more SP + PP on any spell level purchased than your Sorcerer level, and you cannot create a spell slot you would not otherwise have from your Sorcerer level (e.g. you cannot create ninth level spell slots before level 17).

    Psicrystal Manifestation
    At 14th level, you gain the ability to use the projected fragment of your mind in your psicrystal as the originator of your spells, as long as it is within one mile of you. Both you and your psicrystal must spend the required action to cast the spell, and both of you have the display of psionic might. Both of you must act in the same round, and the spell takes effect at the end of the latter of the two actions (if you do not act on the same initiative, simultaneously). When you do, the spell is cast with all of your statistics, using up your spell slots, psionic power points, and/or sorcery points and calculating all values based on your normal ones, but your psicrystal is the originator and may make any associated actions at the time of the spell's completion (if, for instance, it enables and requires a touch attack). Your psicrystal also maintains any Concentration for that spell, and the spell is interrupted if your psicrystal's Concentration is interrupted.

    Mental Renewal
    At 18th level, when you roll one or more of your hit dice to regain hit points during a Short Rest, you may choose instead to dedicate those hit dice to your Psionic Power Points. When your short rest is over, your Psionic Power Points are set to the number you rolled, rather than zero. Any which exceed your total allowed may become Sorcery Points, instead.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    sandmote's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    US
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: New Sorcerer Origin: Psionic

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    If you cast find familiar, the 100 gp component is a gem, which you imbue with a portion of your own mind to turn it into a psicrystal. It grows ectoplasmic legs and uses the statistics of a spider, though it has the Construct type and an Intelligence of 6. It otherwise functions as a normal familiar granted by the spell. You also gain the option to cast find familiar (if you know it) from a higher level spell slot with a more expensive gem. If you do, you may learn sorcerer spells which require expensive material components up to the level of spell used to create your psicrystal, and up to the value of the gem used in the casting of this spell. You will use your psicrystal as the material component for such spells; this can result in its destruction if the spell consumes the materials.
    I'd keep the initial cost at the 10 gp the spell normally costs. Alternatively, I'd grant this as a class feature instead of needing to know Find Familiar. Then specify the psicrystal counts as your familiar, and the Find Familiar spell either changes the crystal's stats or replaces the psicrystal entirely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    Psionic Power Points
    At 6th level, when you convert a Sorcerer spell slot into Sorcery Points, you also gain a number of Psionic Power Points equal to the difference between the number of Sorcery Points you obtain and the number it would cost to create a spell slot of that level. Psionic Power Points do not count against your Sorcery Point maximum (and you may store as many of them as you have sorcerer levels), but you end every Short and Long Rest with 0 of them. Psionic Power Points behave like Sorcery Points and can be spent along side them for metamagic and creation of spell slots. However, any metamagic or spell slot even partially paid for with Psionic Power Points must be augmenting a Sorcerer spell cast from a Sorcerer spell slot (never Pact Magic or a spell learned from any other source). Additionally, any spell slot created by even partially spending Psionic Power Points must be spent immediately on a Sorcerer Spell; as such, the creation of the spell slot becomes part of the casting action, rather than a separate bonus action, when even partially paid for by Psionic Power Points.

    Psionic Power Points may also increase a purchased spell slot beyond 5th by spending 2 for every additional level, up to a maximum of a 9th level spell slot (for 15 SP+PP). At least one Psionic Power Point must be spent on any purchased spell slot over 5th level.

    You cannot spend more SP + PP on any spell level purchased than your Sorcerer level, and you cannot create a spell slot you would not otherwise have from your Sorcerer level (e.g. you cannot create ninth level spell slots before level 17).
    Between this and the Psionic feature, the subclass seems like it compares to other sorcerers the way sorcerers compare to wizards. I'm not sure about how strong this makes the subclass. And being able to create additional high level spell slots seems insanely strong. maybe if that was by itself, but this is in addition to more efficient conversions between points and slots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    Psicrystal Manifestation
    At 14th level, you gain the ability to use the projected fragment of your mind in your psicrystal as the originator of your spells, as long as it is within one mile of you. Both you and your psicrystal must spend the required action to cast the spell, and both of you have the display of psionic might. Both of you must act in the same round, and the spell takes effect at the end of the latter of the two actions (if you do not act on the same initiative, simultaneously). When you do, the spell is cast with all of your statistics, using up your spell slots, psionic power points, and/or sorcery points and calculating all values based on your normal ones, but your psicrystal is the originator and may make any associated actions at the time of the spell's completion (if, for instance, it enables and requires a touch attack). Your psicrystal also maintains any Concentration for that spell, and the spell is interrupted if your psicrystal's Concentration is interrupted.
    Allowing you to maintain concentration on two spells at once (one by you directly and one by your psicrystal) seems a bit much. I'd add that neither you, not your psicrystal can maintain concentration while the other does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    Mental Renewal
    At 18th level, when you roll one or more of your hit dice to regain hit points during a Short Rest, you may choose instead to dedicate those hit dice to your Psionic Power Points. When your short rest is over, your Psionic Power Points are set to the number you rolled, rather than zero. Any which exceed your total allowed may become Sorcery Points, instead.
    Combining this with the ability to create additional high level spell slots if flat out broken.The only suggestion coming to mind at the moment is an "overchannel" ability letting the player spam 1st and 2nd level spells for a short time.
    Extended Signature, Woo!

    Latest Homebrew: Thri-Kreen & Gem Dragonborn and Psionic Feats
    Additionally, a Psionic Disciplines Overhaul for the 5e mystic, now in version 1.1

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Segev's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location

    Default Re: New Sorcerer Origin: Psionic

    Thanks for the review!
    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    I'd keep the initial cost at the 10 gp the spell normally costs. Alternatively, I'd grant this as a class feature instead of needing to know Find Familiar. Then specify the psicrystal counts as your familiar, and the Find Familiar spell either changes the crystal's stats or replaces the psicrystal entirely.
    The 100 gp/10 gp thing was me screwing up. I'll amend that to 10 gp.

    And, yes, given how integral it is to the class later on, I should probably just give them Find Familiar as a known spell as part of this (thus making it a class feature, much like how it is for the Pact of the Chain Warlock).

    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    Between this and the Psionic feature, the subclass seems like it compares to other sorcerers the way sorcerers compare to wizards. I'm not sure about how strong this makes the subclass. And being able to create additional high level spell slots seems insanely strong. maybe if that was by itself, but this is in addition to more efficient conversions between points and slots.
    The goal here is to essentially convert them to using power points, the way 3e psionics did. It may be too much, though I am at a loss how to capture the right feel in the mechanics in a more controlled way. Suggestions/brainstorming help would be appreciated.

    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    Allowing you to maintain concentration on two spells at once (one by you directly and one by your psicrystal) seems a bit much. I'd add that neither you, not your psicrystal can maintain concentration while the other does.


    Combining this with the ability to create additional high level spell slots if flat out broken.The only suggestion coming to mind at the moment is an "overchannel" ability letting the player spam 1st and 2nd level spells for a short time.
    Maybe swapping these? The dual concentration is a big part of the point; it's modeled off of Solicit Psicrystal. So might work as a capstone ability.

    Maybe make the dice-sacrifice a cost for the higher-level slot-conversion. Call it "Overchannel." I'll need to rethink how to handle converting high-level slots to SP+PP works, and costs for high level slots in PP+Overchannel.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2013

    Default Re: New Sorcerer Origin: Psionic

    Instead of reinventing the wheel, I'd just move things around.

    First level, just state that the Sorcerer uses the Spell point variant in the DMG, and note that the sorcery points received at level 2 are simply added to the total - Its all one pool. You can include the no-component cap in this section. The one downside of the Spell points variant is on 6th and 7th level spells, which we'll touch later.

    Then, give a minor active effect. Since you're going on Psionic train, I'd say it's something like an invisible Mage hand, as ATs or Gith have.

    At 6 that's when you introduce the Psicrystal Familiar that you can use for components up to a limit. Give it some other minor effect that fits the theme. Probably resistance to psychic damage.

    I like the 14th level ability, but I'm worried it's too bland - everyone who uses spells wants more concentration spells, doubly so for Druids. Maybe make it something more uniquely Sorcerer-y useful, like the ability to swap out Metamagic options, or the ability to make a Magic Circle that reduces the cost of metamagic, or a WoW-presence-of-mind style ability that gives you a 1x/encounter Quicken/Subtle combo-metamagic. If you do keep it, make sure that when you use your action to cast a spell through the PsiFamiliar, it uses its reaction to do so. I'd also require a point cost for it to trigger, probably 3 would be fine.

    As for your 18th level feature seems a bit too much like the Sorcerous Restoration feature they get at 20, in addition to tying them to short rests, which is very un-sorcerer. By switching to Spell points, you are missing a second casting of 6th and 7th level spell slots per rest, so this feature should, at the very least, allow the Psionic Sorcerer to create a 2nd 6th and 7th spell slot once per long rest, in addition to something else like immunity.

    ... Actually, I'd make them able to create a 3rd 6th level spell, and a 2nd 8th level spell - that's something very uniquely sorcer-y. Add that to something like Immunity to psychic damage and resistance to force damage, and you've got a rockin' capstone.
    Always looking for critique of my 5E homebrew!
    Including new Base Classes, a better Ranger, and Subclasses based on:
    • Books
    • TV Shows
    • Marvel Cinematic Universe
    • League of Legends IP
    • Current series: Planeswalker-themed Subclasses based on Magic: The Gathering's War of the Sparks
    And MORE!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    ... does this stuff just come naturally to you? Do you even have to try anymore xD
    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post
    Vogie is the sh**. I don't really have anything to contribute to the topic, just wanted to point that out.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Segev's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location

    Default Re: New Sorcerer Origin: Psionic

    Quote Originally Posted by Vogie View Post
    Instead of reinventing the wheel, I'd just move things around.

    First level, just state that the Sorcerer uses the Spell point variant in the DMG, and note that the sorcery points received at level 2 are simply added to the total - Its all one pool. You can include the no-component cap in this section. The one downside of the Spell points variant is on 6th and 7th level spells, which we'll touch later.
    I'll need to look at that later tonight; I'm AFB right now and haven't more than glanced at those rules. They might just work, though: good idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vogie View Post
    Then, give a minor active effect. Since you're going on Psionic train, I'd say it's something like an invisible Mage hand, as ATs or Gith have.
    Hm, maybe. Dragon sorcs get (effectively) Mage Armor all the time, and Wild Sorcs get a wonky but potent ability. Using a DMG variant isn't really an "increase" in power, just a shift in flavor, in theory.

    Ah, no, you're right, as long as I keep the "no need for V/S/M components" thing (and the "no expensive M spells" limitation).

    Quote Originally Posted by Vogie View Post
    At 6 that's when you introduce the Psicrystal Familiar that you can use for components up to a limit. Give it some other minor effect that fits the theme. Probably resistance to psychic damage.
    Yeah, giving them find familiar here and using the psicrystal as a unique familiar with a way around the material cost limitation is appropriate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vogie View Post
    I like the 14th level ability, but I'm worried it's too bland - everyone who uses spells wants more concentration spells, doubly so for Druids. Maybe make it something more uniquely Sorcerer-y useful, like the ability to swap out Metamagic options, or the ability to make a Magic Circle that reduces the cost of metamagic, or a WoW-presence-of-mind style ability that gives you a 1x/encounter Quicken/Subtle combo-metamagic. If you do keep it, make sure that when you use your action to cast a spell through the PsiFamiliar, it uses its reaction to do so. I'd also require a point cost for it to trigger, probably 3 would be fine.
    Yeah, everyone WANTS it, but few (i.e. almost none) GET it. This is centered around the notion of the connection between the psicrystal and the Psion.

    As written, I think I have both the psicrystal and the psion spending their actual action on manifesting a spell through the psicrystal; no need for reaction when it's got to spend its action.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vogie View Post
    As for your 18th level feature seems a bit too much like the Sorcerous Restoration feature they get at 20, in addition to tying them to short rests, which is very un-sorcerer. By switching to Spell points, you are missing a second casting of 6th and 7th level spell slots per rest, so this feature should, at the very least, allow the Psionic Sorcerer to create a 2nd 6th and 7th spell slot once per long rest, in addition to something else like immunity.

    ... Actually, I'd make them able to create a 3rd 6th level spell, and a 2nd 8th level spell - that's something very uniquely sorcer-y. Add that to something like Immunity to psychic damage and resistance to force damage, and you've got a rockin' capstone.
    I'll need to check the DMG rules for spell points to see how it interacts with 6th+ level spell slots. I very much want to move away from "spell slots" at all for the Psion.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    sandmote's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    US
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: New Sorcerer Origin: Psionic

    On second though, even with the additional concentration being intentional, it really isn't that strong. You get some utility and can maintain two of some spells at once. Stronger spells, but not ones strong enough to warrant a consumable component. Certainly comparable to permanent flight (what draconic and divine soul sorcerers get at the same level).

    A few additional high level spell slots should be fine. Just preferably not enough to spam them. Or get multiple extra 9th level slots.

    I've also written a separate psicrystal statblock as part of this mess, but I'm not sure a separate creature is a good option for what you're trying for.
    Extended Signature, Woo!

    Latest Homebrew: Thri-Kreen & Gem Dragonborn and Psionic Feats
    Additionally, a Psionic Disciplines Overhaul for the 5e mystic, now in version 1.1

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Daemon

    Join Date
    Oct 2017

    Default Re: New Sorcerer Origin: Psionic

    Maybe replace the lvl 18 ability with a “Font of Power” that lasts rounds equal to Charisma bonus and grants unlimited sorcery points.

    Also, the Math on Psi Points seems too fiddly to me, I’d probably go with “when you have 0 Psi points and cast a spell of level 1 or higher you gain Psi Points equal to the level of the spell or your your Int bonus, whichever is lower. These points remain until the end of your next turn. Psi points can be spent instead of Sorcery Points for metamagic or to purchase spell slots with the following restrictions: The entire cost of the metamagic or spell slot must be paid in Psi points. Spell slots purchased with Psi points disappear at the end the of the turn they are purchased.”

    I think this gets you a bunch of free lvl 1-3 slots depending on Int and level. Not much better than having a couple wands.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •