The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #121
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    Default Re: Star Power 7: Bad Luck for the Starstruck!

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    I agree with you that such overreactions are, generally, intolerable. My problem with this is that the representation is so quiet, so subtle that it may as well not exist. Smith looks like a normal straight dude, acts like a normal straight dude, and is by all examination just a normal straight dude. Him not being such is merely an informed trait that we are told about but never see. This is roughly on par with JK Rowling simply telling us that Dumbledore is gay. It's trying to appease the LGBT crowd without putting in any actual effort to add in real representation. It's queer baiting.
    Honestly? I have a hard time coming up with decent ways to establish a character as lgbt without going full ham stereotyping, or it being a main character focus of the story. Its HARD to bring in a secondary character and establish them in a good balance between dumbledoore and titus andromedon. Its a tightrope to avoid the backlash of trying too hard or not trying at all. Its a lot easier when the lgbt character is the protagonist or otherwise a main focus because you can more easily create a character where "and gay" (or whatever) can be tacked on to the rest of a fully developed personality. But for characters like mr detective here it far too easily comes off as tokenism because they DONT get the benefit of extensive character development.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  2. - Top - End - #122
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    Default Re: Star Power 7: Bad Luck for the Starstruck!

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Honestly? I have a hard time coming up with decent ways to establish a character as lgbt without going full ham stereotyping, or it being a main character focus of the story. Its HARD to bring in a secondary character and establish them in a good balance between dumbledoore and titus andromedon. Its a tightrope to avoid the backlash of trying too hard or not trying at all. Its a lot easier when the lgbt character is the protagonist or otherwise a main focus because you can more easily create a character where "and gay" (or whatever) can be tacked on to the rest of a fully developed personality. But for characters like mr detective here it far too easily comes off as tokenism because they DONT get the benefit of extensive character development.
    You're right. It is thin line to walk, but that's because so many people who try to walk it seem to forget the way writing works. In any story, there will be an assortment of characters with varying focus: primary, secondary, tertiary, etc. The more ancillary to the story, the more simplistic and one-dimensional the characters are, by necessity. If you try making a side character your gay representation, it can only come across as tokenism or lazy. That's unavoidable. Of course, if you make your main character gay, then it necessarily becomes a central focus, and you're now telling a gay story rather than a story with gay characters. However, there is a sweet spot with the secondary characters. They are developed enough that being gay can merely be one of several traits, and they're also out of focus enough to not alter the core of the story.

    This is the stumbling block so many writers fall over. They want to add gay characters, but they don't want to make the "important" characters the gay ones. Thus, they make side characters gay; it doesn't go well; and they become even less likely to take the bold step forward. If Mookie wanted to add good LGBT representation without it consuming the story, he should have had, say, one of the three soldiers be the one. Perhaps frog guy has a boyfriend. Or maybe the squid girl isn't really a "girl" because squids have no gender. Or just make Smith a woman, and keep the sex scene as is. Either way, they would have made for better candidates as they already have some level of development in other areas (not much, admittedly but some). The issue is especially apparent when Mookie makes a blog post patting himself on the back for his progressiveness and representation and then follows it up with an attempt so lazy and shoddy that I legitimately did not even recognize it until it was pointed out to me.
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  3. - Top - End - #123
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    Default Re: Star Power 7: Bad Luck for the Starstruck!

    When it comes to representation of minority groups, I think there are two different ways to do it right.

    One is the direct approach.
    Tell the story of the problems the group is facing either by taking a character from that group or use metaphors (like X-Men)

    There is also the silent approach which is just to take a character, say he belongs to the group and more or less leave it there.
    This is more important than it seems, and it's something I learned several years ago when I started reading the "Rivers of London" books (very recommended BTW).
    The main character is a cop, also a wizard, and happens to be black.
    The problem I noticed is that in the first books, unless it was specifically mentioned, whenever I tried to imagine a scene, I pictured him as a white dude.

    This is not my fault, the brain works in patterns and the word "wizard" is almost exclusively related to white dudes in folklore, books, and movies.
    It took me awhile to "retrain" my brain and the exercise made me think about how important this kind of representation is.
    If a work is associated only to a specific group, it's good that any form of media helps to breaks the pattern.

    This is also why I have a love/hate relationship with the CW TV shows.
    On one hand, they are HORRIBLE when it comes to writing relationships, so on the surface, their overuse of LGBT characters might create the impression that this group of people is unable to have a normal relationship.
    On the other hand, by "flooding" the heroes with LGBT characters they become a major factor to help break the patterns, opening the possibility for a decent company with good writers to take it from there.

    Regarding JK Rowling, I think the main criticism was because she said "Dumbeldore is gay" in tweets, but then in movies that she had direct control of, this was ignored.

  4. - Top - End - #124
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    Default Re: Star Power 7: Bad Luck for the Starstruck!

    Ok, this update seems dumb. Maybe grex isnt aware that crime daddy barely even tolerates the existence of his son? Or that being a crime boss means you arent an idiot and he just watched danica go rambo on a group of thugs to prevent someone from being shot and so is VERY unlikely to let her murder the one criminal offering to help in cold blood? I mean, ive seen this method get used before, but it involves using a target the bad guy is obsessed over that they can convince them they will destroy.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  5. - Top - End - #125
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    Default Re: Star Power 7: Bad Luck for the Starstruck!

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Ok, this update seems dumb. Maybe grex isnt aware that crime daddy barely even tolerates the existence of his son? Or that being a crime boss means you arent an idiot and he just watched danica go rambo on a group of thugs to prevent someone from being shot and so is VERY unlikely to let her murder the one criminal offering to help in cold blood? I mean, ive seen this method get used before, but it involves using a target the bad guy is obsessed over that they can convince them they will destroy.
    My guess? She is counting on it.
    By proving to the son that daddy doesn't love him, she can make him turn on his family all the way and the father won't be needed anymore. Somehow.

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