Results 31 to 46 of 46
Thread: Help with incarnum
-
2019-06-13, 03:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2018
Re: Help with incarnum
I like to try and boost low tier classes. I'm a vocal Knight advocate because they can do some nice things, including some that are almost unique. I tried to find some uses for Mountebank (and did a homebrew progression for them somewhere on this board that baked the Fiendish template into their class features slowly). Through Zaq's guide I know that Truenamer has some neat tricks (and again, some are unique) that aren't named Conjunctive Gate. Soulborn....I just can't find a reason to use it outside of "trying to use Soulborn." If you're just in love with Thunderstep Boots you could always take Shape Soulmeld.
Edit: Also, can't you buy any item slotless by doubling the price? Or is that only if you're making it yourself?Last edited by zfs; 2019-06-13 at 03:41 PM.
-
2019-06-13, 04:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2016
- Location
- Schwäbisch Hall
Re: Help with incarnum
Actually, all the rules for the creation of the slotless item are given, so theoretically that item exists - more or less as any other published item exists in theory. Probably less so, since you may see it as a sort of custom item.
At my table, that wouldn't be a problem, since the DM would probably rule that it isn't available in a common magic shop, but they can create it for you, given the time (unless the object is considered broken or unbalanced for any reason).
This approach would severely affect the WBL, tho, so it can be used on a limited amount of items. I guess this would still be at least a partial solution to the problem."Ash" avatar by linklele - thank you again!
Trafficking with the Genies: a Sha'ir Handbook | Sha'ir homebrewed fixes
-
2019-06-13, 04:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
- Gender
Re: Help with incarnum
I mean, WotC did...
(Slightly more seriously, they get about two and a half interesting unique melds, and it’s best to just poach from them via feats, because their alleged meldshaping ability is beyond anemic. They have basically no support and seriously insufficient class features.
I admit that it might be fun to play around and see what can be done to spin its crap into gold as a challenge, but we have to be clear-eyed about the fact that they’re really never the best choice for any situation after you snag the level 2 immunity.)In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
-
2019-06-13, 05:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2012
- Location
- Tharggy, on Tellene
- Gender
Re: Help with incarnum
Dreadful Wrath has no HD limit, you're thinking of Frightful Presence from Draconomicon. Its why Dreadful Wrath is always the first one recommended.
Edit:Ninja'd
Generally yes. Totemists lack some of the pure utility Melds that the Incarnate has, so they may need a few items, but generally they can survive fine without hte Christmas Tree. Just buy neat other items, like the Rod of Ropes.
Yes, because its terrible unless your DM fixes it. Like CW Samurai terrible
The Knight actually does stuff though. I can make a lvl 20 Knight that won't suck at every level of play, I can't say that for the Soulborn.Last edited by Blackhawk748; 2019-06-13 at 05:39 PM.
-
2019-06-13, 06:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2016
- Location
- No Longer The Frostfell
Re: Help with incarnum
Not sure that I've seen it dropped, so I'll drop the meldshaper guide by shneekeythelost in here. Great read for all the meldshaper classes.
here
-
2019-06-13, 06:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2015
- Location
- A Sauna in Hell
- Gender
-
2019-06-13, 06:54 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2012
- Location
- Tharggy, on Tellene
- Gender
Re: Help with incarnum
-
2019-06-13, 07:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2015
- Location
- A Sauna in Hell
- Gender
Re: Help with incarnum
Soulborn needs extra meldshaping, and Samurai needs to affect mindless creatures. For Samurai it'd be maybe a class feature at 11~15 and it'd be fine. For Soulborn you just add one more essentia every few levels and give it two or three more melds.
Both are stupid easy to fix.
-
2019-06-13, 10:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2010
Re: Help with incarnum
Now there's an optimization battle I wouldn't mind seeing...
-
2019-06-14, 05:02 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2016
- Location
- Schwäbisch Hall
Re: Help with incarnum
You are right and I can totally dig the idea; in a similar fashion, anima mage/tenebrous apostate are also the best solution, in my eyes, to solve the "binder dilemma". If one's scared that the class is anemic, well, the PC is still a cleric or a wizard with a minimum investment.
I don't know why, I'm actually tempted to go full incarnate, instead, and learn/test the system in its essence. I'll save your advice for a later time.
I do like dual-progression PrC with legal entry at level 4; the expenditure of feat is somehow costly, but I guess those feats are useful anyhow. I'm not in the mood of clerics, though, and especially not in the mood for DMM:persist. Turn undead would definitely be something to homebrew, possibly exchanging it and smite chaos for tenebrous rebuke (my current campaign is undead-intensive). Since we play in an homebrew setting (so adaptations are basically a must), and the sapphire hierarch's description itself suggests to alter the flavor/alignment/domain of the class, it would be even possible to get rid of the lawful restriction...
But as I said, I'd prefer that my first experience with the incarnate is as "pure" as it gets...
Yes, I know, Bert the eagle. Sam from Sesame street. I know what you mean, I hear you loud and clear! (https://youtu.be/yLZiWr2kW4U).Last edited by Kaleph; 2019-06-14 at 05:03 AM.
-
2019-06-14, 08:06 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2005
- Location
- Vancouver, BC, Canada
Re: Help with incarnum
An odd analogy for incarnate/totemist comes from Star Trek. You have your spaceship which can be retrofitted by engineers between missions (you choose your soul melds daily) but once on a mission your main concern is where to put the power from your dilithium crystals. Shields? Phasers? Holodeck? Life support? Engines? (you decide where your essentia points go on a round by round basis).
So if you ever wanted to Captain the Enterprise, now is your chance! The incarnate is your vessel!
-
2019-06-14, 08:22 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2016
Re: Help with incarnum
I personally think that Incandescent Champion would be the best introduction to Incarnum. ( I also think that combining Incandescent Champion and Incarnum Blade and the soulborn meld shaping progression would make a fine base class; but that might be because I've yet to actually play any of those things.)
-
2019-06-14, 08:37 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
- Gender
Re: Help with incarnum
Incarnum blade has mechanics with names that sound similar to what real incarnum classes use, but seriously, the similarities end there. Its mechanics really have no connection to how real incarnum works. The class really ticks me off as a result. What was even the goal there?
Incandescent champion is a great concept, but the execution is sufficiently awful that I feel like it’s a poor introduction to anything.In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
-
2019-06-15, 10:28 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2014
Re: Help with incarnum
Incarnate's biggest issue is the alignment restriction which severely limits/defines your combat style. Lawful incarnates get good to hit and kind of tank, chaotic are sub par ranged damage dealers, evil get damage but their to hit will be pretty awful, and good are the tankiest but tanking isn't the greatest strategy in general. Half Bab really hurts.
You do get to play essentially the rogue roles better than the rogue on a day to day basis barring sneak attack. You get a lot of cool stuff and are super versatile but your weakest role is combat. Necrocarnum helps, with soulspark familiar and necrocarnate zombies you can bring an ok amount but depending in your optimization level at the table you might be close to dead weight. If you are lower op or creative however you can shine in pretty much every other place and be passable in combat.
-
2019-06-15, 10:41 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2014
- Location
- California
- Gender
Re: Help with incarnum
I think the aligned melds are actually not very important except for the necrocarnum zombie. If you look at the key soulmelds I posted above, they're mostly alignment-agnostic; only minionmancy really pushes you in a particular direction. BAB is also a real concern, but the fact that you're making a lot of your attacks against touch AC helps a ton.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Handbooks: The Warlockopedia | The Warmagepedia (WIP) | Tier List (2019 Update)
Spreadsheets: Spellcasting classes | Deities | Useful items
Homebrew: Gestalt Theurge | Fighter and Monk fixes | Warlock stuff | Houserules and quick fixes
Original Fiction: The Wizard's Familiar
-
2019-06-15, 11:00 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2013
- Gender
Re: Help with incarnum
Totemist plays more melee with versatility that allows it to do things to surprise, debilitate, or buff. A good class that can fit most groups as it can shore up the weak points a group may have.
Incarnate plays more medium range. It gets the most Essentia of any class and has a lot of different means to attack and defend that don't require actual rolls.
Soulborn is crap. Interestingly enough, this forum actually has a homebrew melee essentia-using class called the Esper Knight that functions a lot better without breaking too much. It uses essentia to replicate Jedi powers from Star Wars.Last edited by illyahr; 2019-06-15 at 11:01 AM.
See my Extended Signature for my list of silly shenanigans.
Anyone is welcome to use or critique my 3.5 Fighter homebrew: The Vanguard.
I am a Dungeon Master for Hire that creates custom content for people and programs d20 content for the HeroLab character system. Please donate to my Patreon and visit the HeroLab forums.