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    amused (Ranger Archetype) Mama Bear/Papa Wolf [P.E.A.C.H.]

    While less complex than many of my ideas, this sub-class still considers the complexity of the material in the PHB to be a floor, rather than a ceiling. Most of this will only come up when leveling up, since it is the large number of options or contingencies for specific cases that generate most of the word-count.

    In three locations I include an especial questions to reviewers in double parentheses. The fourth is just a note to myself.

    Mama Bear / Papa Wolf
    Even rangers who do not choose to spend much time in "civilized" areas often seek to protect those same areas from threats. Others may associate with fae, magical creatures (for instance unicorns), or members of rare (especially endangered) species who they feel are highly prized.

    Mama Bears/Papa Wolves are more direct about this protection, for instance, escorting travelling parties through dangerous areas, or severing as informal "body guards" to the afford mentioned creatures. Of the latter group some spend most of their time near their charges, and some merely remain available for the creature to run to if they detect a threat to them.

    Rarely members of this sub-class will join official body-guard squads to a specific individual or small group, specializing, of course, in times when their charge is in natural areas, but often remaining with them just as much as any other bodyguard. Those who do not usually prefer the title "(Chief) Huntsman" rather than "Guard" for their skill at making sure their charge encounters no misfortune while hunting wild game such as deer, boar, pheasant, turkey, etc.

    Still others serve in scouting squads of armies, their abilities directed towards fiercely ensuring that their squadmates will return home alive.

    Feral Growl
    At 3rd level:
    If are not proficient in Intimidate you gain proficiency in it.

    If you were already proficient in Intimidate, you gain expertise in it (you double your proficiency modifier for Intimidate checks).

    If you already had expertise in Intimidate, you gain proficiency in any skill from the basic ranger class list of skills.

    When attempting to Intimidate, you may replace your charisma modifier with your strength or constitution modifier provided the verbal aspect, if any, is no more complex than "Get away from the gnome, you B****!" or "You can not enter here!".

    After you have used this modifier substitution ability you may not do so again until you have finished a short or long rest. ((Make this At-Will?))

    Vengeance Hunter / Justice Hunt ((Omit?))
    Still at 3rd level, you gain advantage on Wisdom(Survival) checks to track any creature that has attacked one or more of your allies that you know well. If you succeed on such a check, you also learn their exact number, their sizes, and how long ago they passed through the area.

    Deflect or Dispatch
    As the final 3rd level feature of this archetype you gain one of the following features of your choice:

    • Improved Protection Fighting Style When a creature you can see attacks a target other than you that is within 5 feet of you, you can use your reaction to impose disadvantage on the attack roll. You must be wielding a shield.

      You also gain an additional reaction each round that can only be used for this ability.

      Spoiler: Old text (NOT Director's Cut)
      Show
      At 17th level, if you have additional reactions* that could otherwise only be used for opportunity attacks, you may use them for this as well. There is still only one set of additional reactions, and this feature does not increase the number of reactions granted.
      *See Drive Away the Mated Dire Foxes (available at 7th or 11th level) and its sequel Drive Away the Jackal Horde (available at 11th level, and only if you already have Drive Away the Mated Dire Foxes).
    • Guardian's Bite. When you hit a creature with an opportunity attack, you can elect to increase the damage by your ranger class level. You can use this feature a number of times equal to the higher of your Strength or Wisdom modifiers. When you finish a short or long rest, you regain all expended uses.
      Spoiler: Director's Cut Addendum
      Show
      If you have the Mage Slayer feat then you may only use this feature in combination with it if the spell they are casting would directly harm one of your allies. You do not count as your own ally for this purpose.
    • Murder* of Crows Defends Their Nests. ((This MAY need serious re-balancing.)) When making ranged attacks at one or more creatures who made a melee attack at one of your allies since the start of your last turn, you add your wisdom modifier to your damage roll(s).
      *A flock of crows is also known as a "murder".

      At 9th level, this increases to twice your wisdom modifier.
      Spoiler: Director's Cut version of 9th level improvement.
      Show
      The damage bonus increases to your wisdom SCORE -10. In other words even odd points of wisdom count, rather than being lost in rounding to derive the Wisdom bonus from the Wisdom score.



    Passionate Protector
    Starting at 7th level, you gain one of the following features of your choice:
    • Steel Will. You have advantage on saving throws against being frightened.
    • Drive Away the Mated Dire Foxes. You gain an additional reaction each round that may only be used for an opportunity attack.
    • Pierce the Skin of the Crocodile That Would Lay In Wait to Ambush My Cub as She Drinks.* When making an opportunity attack roll to hit you add your Wisdom modifier.
      *Pierce the Crocodile's Skin for short.




    Potent Protector
    At 11th level, you gain one of the following features of your choice:
    • Drive Away the Jackal Horde. (Requires Drive Away the Mated Dire Foxes) Your number of additional reactions per round increases to your Wisdom modifier. These may still only be used for opportunity attacks.
    • Tireless Teeth of the Mother Bear / Papa Wolf. (Requires Guardian's Bite) You may now use Guardian's Bite at will.
    • Hamstring the Pursuer of My Child. (Requires Murder of Crows Defends Their Nests.) Each attack any other feature of this subclass provides bonuses to that hits reduces the each of the target's speeds (Normal speed, swim speed, fly speed, etc) by 10 feet for 1 round.
    • Mastery of Basic Protective Technique. You gain any one option that this archetype grants at 3rd or 7th level that you do not already have.
    • Intercepting Arrows. You may use a reaction to enter "interception mode" provided: You took the Attack action on your turn to only make ranged weapon attacks or do nothing at all and ended your turn holding at least one ranged weapon. This mode lasts until you complete your next action. If you are in interception mode you gain a number of special reactions equal to 1 + the maximum number of ranged weapon attacks you COULD have made, but DIDN'T. Any time you see a projectile (even one that does not involve an attack roll) pass within 20' of you you may use one of these special reactions to try to intercept it. You make a ranged attack on it. If your attack roll beats that of the original attack with that projectile then the attack strikes your own projectile at a point of your choosing along its intended path of travel within 20' of you. If the attack did not originally involve an attack roll (a magic missile or one of the orbs of a Meteor Swarm) then the attacker rolls one for this purpose. Note that in the case of the Meteor Swarm this doesn't keep the orb from exploding, only causes it to explode higher up that it normally would (as it plummets down and strikes your counter-shot, rather than its intended point of explosion). You may only attack a given projectile once with this ability. You may, however react to generate these special reactions at the same instant you then spend one of them to attack a projectile.



    Never Too Far From My Brood
    At 15th level you learn Helping Hand and Status (see end of this post). These do not count against your spells known and they count as ranger spell spells for you.
    Spoiler: Old version (NOT Director's Cut)
    Show
    Starting at 15th level, you gain one of the following features of your choice:
    • Father Wolf Hears His Cubs Cries. You may cast Status (See below) a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier. Expended uses are regained upon finishing a long rest.
    • Mother Bird Gathers Her Chicks. You may cast Helping Hand (See below). Each casting generates up to your Wisdom modifier separate hands, each of which may be tasked to find a different person. However only people you know well and are well disposed towards may be sought by the hand(s) and each hand must be assigned to find a specific individual. After using this ability, you must complete a long rest before you may use it again.

    Roleplay Note: Despite the names, characters of either gender are equally likely to take each of these.


    Protector's Perfection
    Also at 15th level, you also gain one of the following features of your choice:
    • Inescapable Bite. Just before rolling to hit with an opportunity attacks you may choose to gain advantage on it and all further opportunity attacks you make until the start of your next turn. You can use this feature a number of times equal to the higher of your Strength or Dexterity modifiers. When you finish a short or long rest, you regain all expended uses.
    • GET OFF OF THEM!!!.(Requires Drive Away the Jackal Horde and thus also Drive Away the Mated Dire Foxes.) This technique is more formally known as Brushing Away the Swarming Ants. It uses both your action and your movement for your turn. Move up to half your speed if you wish. Then move up to half your speed. During this second set of movement you are protected against opportunity attacks as if you were using the Disengage action and may make a single melee attack at each enemy that meets all of the following conditions:
      • They are within your reach at any point during this portion of your movement.
      • They are currently within their own reach of at least one of your allies.
      • They made at least one melee attack against your allies (not including yourself) since the end of your last turn.

      If you have Guardian's Bite you may use it on the individual attacks of this ability to apply half its normal damage bonus. This consumes uses as normal.
    • Unerring Beaks of the Murder. (Requires Murder of Crows Defends Their Nests) You add your Wisdom bonus to attack rolls that Murder of Crows Defends Their Nests applies to.
    • Spoiler: Director's Cut: Additional option.
      Show
      Impenetrable Protection. You gain the Sentinel feat (PHB p.169-170).



    Helping Hand
    3rd-level Evocation (Ritual)
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: 5 miles
    Components: V, S
    Duration: Concentration, up to 5 hours
    You create the ghostly image of a hand, which you can send to find a creature within 5 miles. You then specify a person (or any creature) by physical description, which can include race, gender, and appearance but not ambiguous factors such as level, alignment, or class. When the description is complete, the hand streaks off in search of a subject that fits the description. The hand then beckons to that creature and leads it to you if the creature is willing to follow.

    If the subject is within 1,000 ft the hand finds them in 1 minute. Beyond this range it takes 1 hour per of mile distance (rounded up).


    Status
    2nd-level Divination
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: Touch
    Components: V, S
    Duration: 1 hour
    This spell only works on willing creatures and beasts of intelligence 3 or less.

    You touch a single creature. You are aware of direction and distance to the creature and any conditions affecting them: unharmed, fatigued (including level of fatigue), wounded, incapacitated, staggered, unconscious, dying, nauseated, panicked, stunned, poisoned, diseased, or the like. Examples of conditions it does NOT reveal include charmed, frightened, grappled, prone, and restrained. Once the spell has been cast upon the subject, the distance between them and the caster does not affect the spell as long as they are on the same plane of existence. If a subject leaves the plane, or if it dies, the spell ceases to function for it.

    At Higher Levels: When you cast this spell using a slot of 3rd level or higher, you may target one additional willing creature for each slot level above 3rd.
    Spoiler: Director's Cut (Might remove entirely)
    Show
    If you use a slot of at 5th to 7th level then the duration increases to 8 hours. If you use a slot of 8th level the duration increases to 24 hours, and if you use a 9th level spell slot the duration increases to 7 days.

    ((NOTE TO SELF: Remember to change this in the other place(s) I posted this spell when I have it nailed down.))
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2019-06-15 at 07:34 AM.
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  2. - Top - End - #2
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    Default Re: (Ranger Archetype) Mama Bear/Papa Wolf [P.E.A.C.H.]

    Oops!

    Spells added...
    [Public Service Announcement]P.E.A.C.H stands for Please Examine And Critique Honestly[/Public Service Announcement]
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    My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.

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    Default Re: (Ranger Archetype) Mama Bear/Papa Wolf [P.E.A.C.H.]

    Challenge accepted

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    Bonus Proficiency
    At 3rd level:
    If are not proficient in Intimidate you gain proficiency in it.
    If you were already proficient in Intimidate, you gain expertise in it (you double your proficiency modifier for Intimidate checks).
    If you already had expertise in Intimidate, you gain proficiency in any skill from the basic ranger class list of skills.

    Feral Growl
    Also at 3rd level, when attempting to Intimidate, you may replace your charisma modifier with your strength or constitution modifier provided the verbal aspect, if any, is no more complex than "Get away from the gnome, you B****!" or "You can not enter here!".
    After you have used this ability you may not do so again until you have finished a short or long rest. ((Make this At-Will?))
    These features are similar enough to put them together, and in fact using other stats for skills is already covered in the PHB/DMG.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    Vengeance Hunter / Justice Hunt ((Omit? Make exclusive with Feral Growl?))
    Still at 3rd level, you gain advantage on Wisdom(Survival) checks to track any creature that has attacked one or more of your allies that you know well. If you succeed on such a check, you also learn their exact number, their sizes, and how long ago they passed through the area.
    This overlaps with Hunter's Mark somewhat, you may want to tie it into that. But seeing how busy level 3 is with the other two major features you could probably drop this entirely.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    Deflect or Dispatch
    As the final 3rd level feature of this archetype you gain one of the following features of your choice:
    • Protection Fighting Style (Improving). When a creature you can see attacks a target other than you that is within 5 feet of you, you can use your reaction to impose disadvantage on the attack roll. You must be wielding a shield.
      At 17th level, if you have additional reactions* that could otherwise only be used for opportunity attacks, you may use them for this as well. There is still only one set of additional reactions, and this feature does not increase the number of reactions granted.
      *See Drive Away the Mated Dire Foxes (available at 7th or 11th level) and its sequel Drive Away the Jackle Horde (available at 11th level, and only if you already have Drive Away the Mated Dire Foxes).
    • Guardian's Bite. When you hit a creature with an opportunity attack, you can elect to increase the damage by your ranger class level. You can use this feature a number of times equal to the higher of your Strength or Wisdom modifiers. When you finish a short or long rest, you regain all expended uses.
      Special: If you have the Mage Slayer feat then you may only use this feature in combination with it if the spell they are casting would directly harm one of your allies. You do not count as your own ally for this purpose.
    • Murder* of Crows Defends Their Nests. ((This MAY need serious re-balancing.)) When making ranged attacks at one or more creatures who made a melee attack at one of your allies since the start of your last turn, you add your wisdom modifier to your damage roll(s).
      *A flock of crows is also known as a "murder".
      At 9th level, this increases to twice your wisdom modifier.
      Spoiler: Director's Cut version
      Show
      The damage bonus increases to your wisdom SCORE -10. In other words even odd points of wisdom count, rather than being lost in rounding to derive the Wisdom bonus from the Wisdom score.

      At 17th level, you gain a technique usually referred to as "Hamstring the Pursuer of My Child". Each attack this feature provides bonuses to that hits reduces the each of the target's speeds (Normal speed, swim speed, fly speed, etc) by 10 feet for 1 round. ((Make this a sequel?))
    Protection style is OK, though many actually consider it lacklustre compared to other fighting styles and potentially other options here.
    Guardian's Bite could just be simplified to 'When you hit with an Opportunity attack you deal extra damage equal to your Ranger level', or half Ranger level if that playtests as too powerful.
    Murder of Crows should probably be limited to once per turn but is otherwise pretty good. Not sure the cleanest way to word it though. Agreed with separating Hamstring the Pursuer into its own feature
    I would recommend taking out special cases such as level 17 Protection, Mage Hunter w/ Guardian's Bite and the increase to double WIS for Murder of Crows

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    Passionate Protector
    Starting at 7th level, you gain one of the following features of your choice:
    • Steel Will. You have advantage on saving throws against being frightened.
    • Drive Away the Mated Dire Foxes. You gain an additional reaction each round that may only be used for an opportunity attack.
    • Pierce the Skin of the Crocodile That Would Lay In Wait to Ambush My Cub as She Drinks.* When making an opportunity attack roll to hit you add your Wisdom modifier.
      *Pierce the Crocodile's Skin for short.
    Steel Will is notably weaker than the other two, and the odd duck since the other two directly interact with Opportunity Attacks. Perhaps swap Guardian's Bite with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    Potent Protector
    At 11th level, you gain one of the following features of your choice:
    • Drive Away the Jackal Horde.* (Requires Drive Away the Mated Dire Foxes) Your number of additional reactions per round increases to your Wisdom modifier. These may still only be used for opportunity attacks (and Protective Fighting Style if you have that).
      Nota Bene: Check with your GM before taking this feature. It may slow the game down more than is generally considered acceptable for 5e.
    • Tireless Teeth of the Mother Bear / Papa Wolf. (Requires Guardian's Bite) You may now use Guardian's Bite at will.
    • Mastery of Basic Protective Technique. You gain any one option that this archetype grants at 3rd or 7th level that you do not already have.
    • Intercepting Arrows. You may use a reaction to enter "interception mode" provided: You took the Attack action on your turn to only make ranged weapon attacks or do nothing at all and ended your turn holding at least one ranged weapon. This mode lasts until you complete your next action. If you are in interception mode you gain a number of special reactions equal to 1 + the maximum number of ranged weapon attacks you COULD have made, but DIDN'T. Any time you see a projectile (even one that does not involve an attack roll) pass within 20' of you you may use one of these special reactions to try to intercept it. You make a ranged attack on it. If your attack roll beats that of the original attack with that projectile then the attack strikes your own projectile at a point of your choosing along its intended path of travel within 20' of you. If the attack did not originally involve an attack roll (a magic missile or one of the orbs of a Meteor Swarm) then the attacker rolls one for this purpose. Note that in the case of the Meteor Swarm this doesn't keep the orb from exploding, only causes it to explode higher up that it normally would (as it plummets down and strikes your counter-shot, rather than its intended point of explosion). You may only attack a given projectile once with this ability. You may, however react to generate these special reactions at the same instant you then spend one of them to attack a projectile.
    You have four options here which breaks the coveted rule of threes (i'm only assuming, considering this reminds me so much of the Hunter Ranger). I would recommend just giving another level 3 option of your choice and upgrading the level 7 one you picked automatically, or the other way around. These basically do seem to be improvements of previous features.
    I can see Intercepting arrows is thematically the improvement to Murder of Crows, but it is WEIRD. You could tweak the Monk's Deflect Arrows feature to do the same thing. Players generally don't like spending their turn doing nothing, and introducing attack rolls to fireballs only to interact with this specific feature is a little much.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    Never Too Far From My Brood ((Just have them learn both of these at this level?))
    Starting at 14th level, you gain one of the following features of your choice:
    • Father Wolf Hears His Cubs Cries. You may cast Status (See below) a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier. Expended uses are regained upon finishing a long rest.
    • Mother Bird Gathers Her Chicks. You may cast Helping Hand (See below). Each casting generates up to your Wisdom modifier separate hands, each of which may be tasked to find a different person. However only people you know well and are well disposed towards may be sought by the hand(s) and each hand must be assigned to find a specific individual. After using this ability, you must complete a long rest before you may use it again.

    Roleplay Note: Despite the names, characters of either gender are equally likely to take each of these.

    Protector's Perfection
    At 14th level, you also gain one of the following features of your choice:
    • Inescapable Bite. Just before rolling to hit with an opportunity attacks you may choose to gain advantage on it and all further opportunity attacks you make until the start of your next turn. You can use this feature a number of times equal to the higher of your Strength or Dexterity modifiers. When you finish a short or long rest, you regain all expended uses.
    • Impenetrable Protection. You gain the Sentinel feat (PHB p.169-170).
    • GET OFF OF THEM!!!.(Requires Drive Away the Jackal Horde and thus also Drive Away the Mated Dire Foxes.) This technique is more formally known as Brushing Away the Swarming Ants. It uses both your action and your movement for your turn. Move up to half your speed if you wish. Then move up to half your speed. During this second set of movement you are protected against opportunity attacks as if you were using the Disengage action and may make a single melee attack at each enemy that meets all of the following conditions:
      • They are within your reach at any point during this portion of your movement.
      • They are currently within their own reach of at least one of your allies.
      • They made at least one melee attack against your allies (not including yourself) since the end of your last turn.

      If you have Guardian's Bite you may use it on the individual attacks of this ability to apply half its normal damage bonus. This consumes uses as normal.
    • Unerring Beaks of the Murder. (Requires Murder of Crows Defends Their Nests) You add your Wisdom bonus to attack rolls that Murder of Crows Defends Their Nests applies to.
    Rangers don't get a subclass feature at level 14, I presume you meant 15.
    It would probably just be easier to put those spells on the Ranger's spell list since they're half casters, which means you can just drop Never Too Far.
    Inescapable bite: 5e typically doesn't let you pick between two stats when determining number of feature uses. I'd just make this Wisdom.
    Impenetrable protection: Feats as features isn't something 5e does. Also by the time a PC gets to 15 in this class they are VERY likely to already have it with all the Opp attack synergy
    Get off them seems really messy. It seems to be Whirlwind attack with caveats but is also a feature that uses your action and movement but requires two features that change your reaction attacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    Helping Hand
    3rd-level Evocation (Ritual)
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: 5 miles
    Components: V, S
    Duration: Concentration, up to 5 hours
    You create the ghostly image of a hand, which you can send to find a creature within 5 miles. You can describe a person (or any creature) by physical description, which can include race, gender, and appearance but not ambiguous factors such as level, alignment, or class. When the description is complete, the hand streaks off in search of a subject that fits the description. The hand then beckons to that creature and leads it to you if the creature is willing to follow.

    If the subject is within 1,000 ft the hand finds them in 1 minute. Beyond this range it takes 1 hour per of mile distance (rounded up).
    Missed a word it seems. Might even be a 2nd level spell. I can't think of any other spells that use that particular range or duration off the top of my head.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    Status
    2nd-level Divination
    Casting Time: 1 action
    Range: Touch
    Components: V, S
    Duration: 1 hour
    This spell only works on willing creatures and beasts of intelligence 3 or less.

    You touch a single creature. You are aware of direction and distance to the creature and any conditions affecting them: unharmed, fatigued (including level of fatigue), wounded, incapacitated, staggered, unconscious, dying, nauseated, panicked, stunned, poisoned, diseased, or the like. Examples of conditions it does NOT reveal include charmed, frightened, grappled, prone, and restrained. Once the spell has been cast upon the subject, the distance between them and the caster does not affect the spell as long as they are on the same plane of existence. If a subject leaves the plane, or if it dies, the spell ceases to function for it.

    At Higher Levels: When you cast this spell using a slot of 3rd level or higher, you may target one additional willing creature for each slot level above 3rd. If you use a slot of at 5th to 7th level then the duration increases to 8 hours. If you use a slot of 8th level the duration increases to 24 hours, and if you use a 9th level spell slot the duration increases to 7 days.
    Seems good. Scaling with higher slots will generally only change one aspect. Number of targets is fine, no need to increase duration.
    Roll for it
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    Default Re: (Ranger Archetype) Mama Bear/Papa Wolf [P.E.A.C.H.]

    Going to respond and make some of the simpler edits you have sold me on. Other stuff I'll have to think about , which also will allow other people time to weigh in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    These features are similar enough to put them together,
    Done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    and in fact using other stats for skills is already covered in the PHB/DMG.
    Are you saying that ability was pointless and should have been removed rather than combined with the other one?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    This overlaps with Hunter's Mark somewhat, you may want to tie it into that. But seeing how busy level 3 is with the other two major features you could probably drop this entirely.
    You mean the 3rd level ability of the Hunter archetype (PHB p.93)? None of the three options there say anything about tracking.* I pulled it from the Natural Explorer base ranger feature. I would say it is a "ribbon", and thus can stick around, especially since I technically just reduced the number of features at this level?
    *Also, in case I am misunderstanding, that feature is called Hunter's Prey.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Protection style is OK, though many actually consider it lacklustre compared to other fighting styles and potentially other options here.
    Even with the improvement part?
    Of course, that only kicks in at level 17.
    Still, it is thematic, and I want to leave it in for that reason. Maybe grant an additional reaction that can only be used for that, but doesn't stack with that from the other extra-reaction granting mechanics? That would probably be a bit complicated to word for 5e standards (not that that has ever stopped me before...).

    (See below)
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Guardian's Bite could just be simplified to 'When you hit with an Opportunity attack you deal extra damage equal to your Ranger level', or half Ranger level if that playtests as too powerful.
    You mean instead of having the turn limitation, or are you saying that if the rules say you do something, and then say in the next sentence that you can only do it a certain number of times between rests, is the assumption that you can choose NOT to do it to conserve that resource?

    Half Ranger level make it initially less damage than the Dueling (and Archery) styles, which usually apply to all attacks you are making rather than just OAs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Murder of Crows should probably be limited to once per turn but is otherwise pretty good. Not sure the cleanest way to word it though.
    EDIT: It was supposed to combine with the extra attacks of ranger to end up with an attack routine a bit like the GET OFF OF THEM!!! sub-class-capstone. Of course, the ability provides the damage, the range the ability to hit widely separated enemies, and the base class the multi-targeting. Since it should be possible to get a lot more attacks out of GET OFF OF THEM!!! in a battle against 8+ or so enemies, it doesn't need to be as good, which is why I thought it could be a lower level ability. Perhaps say it is a static number or MINIMUM(Wis. Mod, Proficiency Bonus) or something like that?

    Obviously it is going to get combined with archery style normally. Not sure how that effects things.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Agreed with separating Hamstring the Pursuer into its own feature.
    EDIT: I'll do that.

    EDIT^2: I was inspired that, as long as I was making it its own thing, I would also not lock it to the archery side of things and just said it applied to any attack that any other feature of the sub-class gave a bonus to.

    I have not considered all the implications of this, it might be a terrible idea, especially since it moves from 17th to 15th level.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    I would recommend taking out special cases such as level 17 Protection, Mage Hunter w/ Guardian's Bite and the increase to double WIS for Murder of Crows.
    In each case:
    Protection -> Made it give an extra reaction usable only for itself, and remove the level 17 part.
    Mage-Hunter + Guardian's Bite -> Moved this into a "Director's Cut" box.
    Damage increase for Murder of Crows -> Hmmm... what would you say to moving that to Director's Cut version rather than just making that the more mathematically precise set of rules? In other words, is it mostly the complexity you are objecting to, or is their a power-level problem there?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Steel Will is notably weaker than the other two, and the odd duck since the other two directly interact with Opportunity Attacks. Perhaps swap Guardian's Bite with it?
    I'll have to consider this.

    I remember there were some interactions with what you could pick at which levels that specifically made certain combos possible/not possible, so that is one thing I have to check.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    You have four options here which breaks the coveted rule of threes (i'm only assuming, considering this reminds me so much of the Hunter Ranger).
    I'm dubious of applying that rule to this sort of thing. It is psychologically valid, but I prefer to stretch people's psyche's rather than limit their options.

    Also, yes, Hunter Ranger was probably what let me know these sorts of menus had precedent, or at least for rangers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    I would recommend just giving another level 3 option of your choice and upgrading the level 7 one you picked automatically, or the other way around. These basically do seem to be improvements of previous features.
    Sounds too complicated of a change for me to make right at the moment, but I'll consider it later.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    I can see Intercepting arrows is thematically the improvement to Murder of Crows, but it is WEIRD. You could tweak the Monk's Deflect Arrows feature to do the same thing.
    I'll look at Deflect Arrows later.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Players generally don't like spending their turn doing nothing, and introducing attack rolls to fireballs only to interact with this specific feature is a little much.
    Well, to be fair, attack fireballs only need attack rolls WHEN they interact with this. I guess I could turn it into a static AC of the caster level, but that doesn't seem worth it for the complexity and "why are the two cases so different" aspect.

    I'll look at Deflect Arrows and further consider what, if anything, to do with this later.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Rangers don't get a subclass feature at level 14, I presume you meant 15.
    Yep. Fixed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    It would probably just be easier to put those spells on the Ranger's spell list since they're half casters, which means you can just drop Never Too Far.
    Done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Inescapable bite: 5e typically doesn't let you pick between two stats when determining number of feature uses. I'd just make this Wisdom.
    Eh... some fighter stuff does. I'll look at those specific fighter things and compared them, you guessed it: later.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Impenetrable protection: Feats as features isn't something 5e does. Also by the time a PC gets to 15 in this class they are VERY likely to already have it with all the Opp attack synergy
    Moved to end of that list and put it in a Director's Cut spoiler.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Get off them seems really messy. It seems to be Whirlwind attack with caveats but is also a feature that uses your action and movement but requires two features that change your reaction attacks.
    All of that is true, but it is also better than whirlwind attack to make up for those thematic caveats.

    Any suggestions for cleaning it up? I'll try to take a look, but no promises.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Missed a word it seems.
    Yeah, but it is actually supposed to be "You then specify a person ".
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Might even be a 2nd level spell. I can't think of any other spells that use that particular range or duration off the top of my head.
    Range is from 3.5. (and maybe 3.0 and/or PF).
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Seems good. Scaling with higher slots will generally only change one aspect. Number of targets is fine, no need to increase duration.
    Changed it to a Director's Cut here, will probably remove entirely.

    NOTE TO SELF: Remember to change this in the other place(s) I posted this spell when I have it nailed down.
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2019-06-15 at 07:29 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    Are you saying that ability was pointless and should have been removed rather than combined with the other one?
    It's worth keeping in since so many people don't utilise those rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    You mean the 3rd level ability of the Hunter archetype (PHB p.93)? None of the three options there say anything about tracking.* I pulled it from the Natural Explorer base ranger feature. I would say it is a "ribbon", and thus can stick around, especially since I technically just reduced the number of features at this level?
    No no, Hunter Mark is a staple 1st level Ranger spell. Bonus action, single target adds damage to every hit and advantage on perception/tracking for up to an hour or longer with higher slots.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    Even with the improvement part?
    Of course, that only kicks in at level 17.
    Still, it is thematic, and I want to leave it in for that reason. Maybe grant an additional reaction that can only be used for that, but doesn't stack with that from the other extra-reaction granting mechanics? That would probably be a bit complicated to word for 5e standards (not that that has ever stopped me before...).
    Yeah it's mostly because it only helps against one attack, and as you face higher CR creatures they tend to get more and more attacks rather than one or two strong ones. There has been a thread or two about fixing it, my favourite is granting half cover until the start of your turn instead of disadvantage on one attack.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    You mean instead of having the turn limitation, or are you saying that if the rules say you do something, and then say in the next sentence that you can only do it a certain number of times between rests, is the assumption that you can choose NOT to do it to conserve that resource?

    Half Ranger level make it initially less damage than the Dueling (and Archery) styles, which usually apply to all attacks you are making rather than just OAs.
    The first, there's no real need to have this particular ability limited to a certain number of uses per rest. Just tweak the amount of damage to be balanced as an at-will reaction. Half level starts small but ends up being +10, which is double that of the infamous great weapon master without the penalty to hit.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    EDIT: It was supposed to combine with the extra attacks of ranger to end up with an attack routine a bit like the GET OFF OF THEM!!! sub-class-capstone. Of course, the ability provides the damage, the range the ability to hit widely separated enemies, and the base class the multi-targeting. Since it should be possible to get a lot more attacks out of GET OFF OF THEM!!! in a battle against 8+ or so enemies, it doesn't need to be as good, which is why I thought it could be a lower level ability. Perhaps say it is a static number or MINIMUM(Wis. Mod, Proficiency Bonus) or something like that?

    Obviously it is going to get combined with archery style normally. Not sure how that effects things.
    How about:
    Murder of Crows: Once pet turn, when you make a ranged attack against a creature one of your allies since the start of your last turn you can add your Wisdom modifier to the damage roll.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    In each case:
    Protection -> Made it give an extra reaction usable only for itself, and remove the level 17 part.
    Mage-Hunter + Guardian's Bite -> Moved this into a "Director's Cut" box.
    Damage increase for Murder of Crows -> Hmmm... what would you say to moving that to Director's Cut version rather than just making that the more mathematically precise set of rules? In other words, is it mostly the complexity you are objecting to, or is their a power-level problem there?
    Protection: A fair idea
    Murder of Crows is a power thing. Ranger's don't get Subclass features at level 17. (They actually get nothing except spells at that level but that's a different problem and shouldn't be addressed within one subclass)

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    Eh... some fighter stuff does. I'll look at those specific fighter things and compared them, you guessed it: later.
    Are you referring to Battlemaster's save DC? Yes, there is precedent for choosing stat for determining save DC but not uses per rest. Not gamebreaking, just something of note.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    All of that is true, but it is also better than whirlwind attack to make up for those thematic caveats.

    Any suggestions for cleaning it up? I'll try to take a look, but no promises.
    Except it isn't. Whirlwind attack is gained at level 11 and lets you make one attack against each creature you can reach 5' of with your movement on your turn as an action. You don't get the benefits of disengage but your targets don't need to qualify and you don't need to pick certain other Hunter features before you can choose it. (Sidenote: It is a point of contention that you can move as part of whirlwind attack. I personally allow it, but that is not true at all tables)

    Hmm, how about:
    Get off them (requires Drive away the Jackal): As an action you can move up to half your speed without provoking opportunity attacks. During this movement you can make one melee weapon attack against each creature you can reach that has made an attack against an ally since the start of your last turn.

    Looking good though. It seems to be a solid, playtestable alternative to the hunter.
    Roll for it
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