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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: What's the Largest Non-magical Object Wortg 25,000gp or Less?

    Quote Originally Posted by unseenmage View Post
    It's for planet building.
    Am looking to Wish up as much material as possible at one time.
    There was another thread for that just a little while ago then...

    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...ish-for-a-rock

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: What's the Largest Non-magical Object Wortg 25,000gp or Less?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronk View Post
    There was another thread for that just a little while ago then...

    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...ish-for-a-rock
    There was another one, too. I've also been following that, even recycling the jokes.

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: What's the Largest Non-magical Object Wortg 25,000gp or Less?

    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    If you want the heaviest object you can get for that value, it's probably a different answer, and I would guess Hulking Hurler optimization threads probably have the answer.
    HH threads tend to go looking for density rather than mass, and tend to not be worried about the cost as much - the goal is to reach your CC throwing limit in as small an area as possible so it's at least theoretically possible to carry your "whatever it is" around (usually a big metal sphere). Unfortunately for a lot of materials, density doesn't come up much - what special materials do make mention of how they change the weight of items they make up don't make mention of how they change the composition (ie how much mithral does it take to make mithral chainmail instead of the doubly-heavy steel chainmail?), which makes it hard to measure. However, if what we're looking for is the highest weight for our money rather than volume, what we wanna do here is find something relatively heavy that is inexplicably worthless. Since people have already pointed out the "just wish for an infinite number of {thing that costs literally nothing but has any weight whatsoever}", let's just take a stroll through the SRD and look for some possible contenders.

    I found a few good contenders, like Large Sling Bullets, but even that paled in comparison to the "why is this cheap bull**** so heavy" champion: firewood. A day's worth of firewood weighs 20 lbs and costs just 1cp. That's 2000 lbs/gp. Wishing for "all the firewood a safe wish can give me" would give me 50 million pounds of firewood. I don't know how much a 25000 gp 100 ft long Warship weighs on the SRD, but a quick google indicates the standard displacement of an 800+ ft Iowa-class Battleship is about 100 million lbs of water (eight times the length of the ship we can get on the SRD, and only twice as much weight as our giant pile of firewood, so it's probably safe to say that the SRD's warship has a worse lb/gp ratio than firewood).
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: What's the Largest Non-magical Object Wortg 25,000gp or Less?

    Seems that I'm looking for a bit more narrow a solution than that thread provides.

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: What's the Largest Non-magical Object Wortg 25,000gp or Less?

    Of course if you're wanting to wish up a planet by making a giant pile of firewood, you're probably going to be wishing for quite some time: Pluto is too small to be considered a planet anymore, but it still weighs equivalent to 28 sextillion lbs, meaning you'd need to make about 600 trillion wishes to get enough firewood to match that size, and doing so at a rate of one wish per round would take 100 million years. 100 million years of nonstop wishing to make Pluto.

    Quote Originally Posted by unseenmage View Post
    Seems that I'm looking for a bit more narrow a solution than that thread provides.
    Sorry bud, I dunno what to tell you. Who knew you couldn't buy a planet worth of material for the same price as a medieval warship?
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  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: What's the Largest Non-magical Object Wortg 25,000gp or Less?

    If you use Circle Magic followed by a Persisted "Greater Consumptive Field", you'd be looking at CL 60 going forward. Then let's combine Circle Magic with metamagic reduction to get a Widened Twinned Repeated "Wall Of Iron" spell that is 14 levels higher, using Earth Spell and Arcane Thesis (Wall Of Iron) to get an extra +16 CL for a total of CL 76. Let's assume you can cast that spell twice per round (quicken+normal) all day without anything in this process breaking down somehow. Each wall would normally have a volume of 5198400 cubic inches, but this is Widened so double that per wall. We get four walls per casting, therefore each casting gives 41587200 cubic inches of iron. At 2 castings/round for 24 hours, 1197711360000 cubic inches of iron per day. That much iron would weigh 340150026240 lbs, or approximately 1/100 billionth of the mass of Pluto.

    ...and despite the giant pile of bull**** pushed into this casting, it's still slower than the firewood method: this build casts 2/round instead of the 1/round the firewood wish number assumed, and it still would take 273 million years, or nearly three times as long as wish-firewood method.
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    Default Re: What's the Largest Non-magical Object Wortg 25,000gp or Less?

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    If you use Circle Magic followed by a Persisted "Greater Consumptive Field", you'd be looking at CL 60 going forward. Then let's combine Circle Magic with metamagic reduction to get a Widened Twinned Repeated "Wall Of Iron" spell that is 14 levels higher, using Earth Spell and Arcane Thesis (Wall Of Iron) to get an extra +16 CL for a total of CL 76. Let's assume you can cast that spell twice per round (quicken+normal) all day without anything in this process breaking down somehow. Each wall would normally have a volume of 5198400 cubic inches, but this is Widened so double that per wall. We get four walls per casting, therefore each casting gives 41587200 cubic inches of iron. At 2 castings/round for 24 hours, 1197711360000 cubic inches of iron per day. That much iron would weigh 340150026240 lbs, or approximately 1/100 billionth of the mass of Pluto.

    ...and despite the giant pile of bull**** pushed into this casting, it's still slower than the firewood method: this build casts 2/round instead of the 1/round the firewood wish number assumed, and it still would take 273 million years, or nearly three times as long as wish-firewood method.
    This is actually incredibly useful. Thank you.

    I have new info from the GM am adding it to the OP now.

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    Default Re: What's the Largest Non-magical Object Wortg 25,000gp or Less?

    Quote Originally Posted by unseenmage View Post
    What the crap is Grell Crystal?
    an alchemical substance from Lords of Madness. It's kind of lovecraftian quick dry cement. a bag of it + five gallons of water produces a sheet of stone-like hardness 25 sq feet and 1 inch thick in like an hour.

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: What's the Largest Non-magical Object Wortg 25,000gp or Less?

    Maybe getting into exponential mass production will speed things up. A resetting Wish trap of "I wish a Decanter Of Endless Water set to geyser would come into existence nearby" would do pretty well...or any method of getting a wish per round, I guess? Each wished-up Decanter would generate 250.2 lbs of water per round, with each round having more decanters helping out. Of course, that means in X rounds you generate 125.1(X+X2) lbs of water. Normally that kinda formula would be weird to figure out, but because we're working with such large weight numbers for planets, it can be simplified a bit and we just acknowledge there's a slight room for error: the number of rounds it takes to generate {planet's mass} is equal to "{planet's mass/125.1}^.5". So for a pluto-sized planet, this takes approximately...3000 years. Hmm.

    ...you know what, since you have Zodar SLA wishes, and you're not using them to just Wish for a spell-duplicating item with enough arbitrary CL to create all the mass you need, let's say that instead of wishing for a decanter every round, you're wishing for the above resetting-spell-trap per round. That should speed things up significantly...okay so now the formula is 62.55*(X4+2X3+X2)=Y, where X is rounds and Y is weight. Once again, this boils down to approximately "divide the target weight by 62.55 and put that to the 1/4 power to find the rounds", so a pluto-sized planet would take approximately...just over ten days of endless "I wish for a resetting trap of wish, which itself wishes every round for a decanter of endless water set to geyser to appear nearby". That gets you a pluto-sized "planet".

    EDIT: We are not responsible for how you turn off all those decanters, although if you feel you can squeeze the extra words into each wish, you could try "I wish that a resetting Wish trap would appear nearby and would, for the next {specify time period} cast a Wish every round to wish for a Decanter Of Endless Water to appear nearby that would, itself, be in geyser mode for {specify time period}, at which point it would turn off entirely".

    Here's approximately how fast this method accomplishes a "planet" of equal mass to various real-world celestial bodies, in various time measurements:

    Body Hours Days Months Years
    Pluto 244 10 0.34 0.028
    Moon 375 15 0.52 0.043
    Mercury 546 22 0.76 0.062
    Mars 645 26 0.90 0.074
    Venus 1072 44 1.49 0.122
    Earth 1128 47 1.57 0.129
    Uranus 2204 91 3.06 0.252
    Neptune 2297 95 3.19 0.262
    Saturn 3527 146 4.90 0.403
    Jupiter 4766 198 6.62 0.544
    Sun 27119 1129 37.66 3.096
    Last edited by AvatarVecna; 2019-06-18 at 10:46 PM.
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    Default Re: What's the Largest Non-magical Object Wortg 25,000gp or Less?

    Sorry, seems I forgot to add the one thing I meant to add to the OP. No wishing for permanent magic items.

    My apologies.

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    Default Re: What's the Largest Non-magical Object Wortg 25,000gp or Less?

    I'm not so certain that iron is the way to go here. It's a pretty dense material, so if you're trying to optimize for size (meaning, volume) you'd do better with wheat. 1 pound of wheat is worth 1cp, so 1 gp worth of wheat is 100 pounds. One Wish would get you a 2,500,000-pound pile of wheat. Apparently grain wheat is 49.32 pounds per (ft^3), which means it would take up about 50689 (ft^3). 125 (ft^3) per 5-foot cube, so that's about 405 squares worth of of wheat.

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    Default Re: What's the Largest Non-magical Object Wortg 25,000gp or Less?

    Quote Originally Posted by unseenmage View Post
    Sorry, seems I forgot to add the one thing I meant to add to the OP. No wishing for permanent magic items.

    My apologies.
    my wish used only single use magical items that did use themselves instantly and created an infinite amount of non magical mass.

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: What's the Largest Non-magical Object Wortg 25,000gp or Less?

    Quote Originally Posted by Telonius View Post
    I'm not so certain that iron is the way to go here. It's a pretty dense material, so if you're trying to optimize for size (meaning, volume) you'd do better with wheat. 1 pound of wheat is worth 1cp, so 1 gp worth of wheat is 100 pounds. One Wish would get you a 2,500,000-pound pile of wheat. Apparently grain wheat is 49.32 pounds per (ft^3), which means it would take up about 50689 (ft^3). 125 (ft^3) per 5-foot cube, so that's about 405 squares worth of of wheat.
    Firewood was the best I found for weight-to-cost ratio, at 2000 lbs/gp, or 50 million lbs for our 25k gp budget. Neither the Player's Handbook nor the SRD specifies what kind of wood is used for firewood (they also don't specify how a fire generates light/heat, which isn't helpful either), but the densest wood I can find is Ebony (which is up to 83 lb/ft3). Assuming our 25000 gp worth of firewood is the heaviest ebony for some reason, 50 million lbs becomes 602409 cubic feet, or 4819 squares worth. If that firewood is a lighter wood, it'll be less dense, and thus that mass will be spread across an even larger volume.

    Admittedly I'm also not sure whether mass or volume is what OP is looking for since they still haven't clarified.
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    biggrin Re: What's the Largest Non-magical Object Wortg 25,000gp or Less?


    Saying that someone reading RAW differently than you is "home brewing or house ruling, but that's fine" doesn't make you right, it just makes you seem pompous.

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