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  1. - Top - End - #541
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    Death Battle Hiei blurp is up. I still root for him, but as long as Naruto has that "on screen" light speed feat that Sasuke can scale off of, its not good.

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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    Quote Originally Posted by HolyDraconus View Post
    Death Battle Hiei blurp is up. I still root for him, but as long as Naruto has that "on screen" light speed feat that Sasuke can scale off of, its not good.
    Yea but Sasuke also has that speed of “I looked at you and you are on fire at the speed of sight” thing so he doesn’t even really need Naruto to scale off of for absurd I win level stuff. Then again they screwed Gaara hard on that exact same feat as well so they might just ignore it so they don’t have to admit how wrong they were.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
    Yea but Sasuke also has that speed of “I looked at you and you are on fire at the speed of sight” thing so he doesn’t even really need Naruto to scale off of for absurd I win level stuff. Then again they screwed Gaara hard on that exact same feat as well so they might just ignore it so they don’t have to admit how wrong they were.
    Hiei is faster than sight. That was proven as far back as the Detective Arc of the show. But he hasn't on screen shown any light speed feats. Pound for pound, Hiei is stronger, and a lot of Sasuke's tech's Hiei either absorbs or shrugs off. To be honest, its really just the Naruto scaling that keeps Sasuke in this fight, outside of Rinnegan. They both have all consuming fire, both have ocular abilities. But only one of the two shown heavy resistance to those things.

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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    One possible disadvantage for Hiei is that Sasuke has time/space distortion powers, and those can be used to block/deflect the Black Dragon Flames, as shown by Mokuro when she uses such a technique to cut Hiei's flames in half.

    Although, to be fair, the attack still managed to hit and destroy its intended target (the shackles on Mokuro's wrists), which was Hiei's goal the whole time.
    Last edited by Lemmy; 2019-09-19 at 02:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    One possible disadvantage for Hiei is that Sasuke has time/space distortion powers, and those can be used to block/deflect the Black Dragon Flames, as shown by Mokuro when she uses such a technique to cut Hiei's flames in half.

    Although, to be fair, the attack still managed to hit and destroy its intended target (the shackles on Mokuro's wrists), which was Hiei's goal the whole time.
    True. Since scaling is a thing, Yusuke can track and dodge lightning, and stated that he couldn't keep up with Hiei....

    Tho he has some stupid crap of his own, like being able to cut a man that was implicitly immune to fire and cuts...... with a fire sword.
    Last edited by HolyDraconus; 2019-09-19 at 06:45 PM.

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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    Heh... That reminds me how in the early episodes of Naruto, the Raikiri / Chidori is said to be incredibly powerful because "no one can dodge lightning"...

    And then a bunch of people dodge it all the time... Including genin. XD
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    Lets dive right in.
    Spoiler: The Winner is...
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    NOT Sasuke??! Actually, they did pull a LOT more data than I was expecting to come up with the winner of this fight. They scaled Sasuke to Naruto, as I figured, and kept both the moon buster feat ( even though its hollow) and Naruto's light speed feat, which I also figured. And the Rinnegan was tossed in as well. AND the soul ripping ability was mentioned as well.. AND Boruto's crap was mentioned also. Hiei though, just muscled through. I didn't think they would pull feats from the movies for Hiei but it wasn't used regardless, just mentioned. So does that count? They did show the fact that Hiei can tank the elemental attacks Sasuke can throw out, since he's practically immune to fire and ice, being a fire and ice hybrid demon, and tanked a powerful electrical attack during the Dark Tournament Arc, so he resists Kirin as well. And they did mention the feats I brought up here, with Yusuke being a lightning timer and Hiei cutting a man with a fire sword that was supposed to be immune to cuts and fire >.< HOWEVER, they did something that I found extremely rare for them: they admitted that the fight in certain instances CAN go the other way, and mentioned that OVERALL Hiei just had a higher CHANCE at winning. Strange. So there you go. In the battle of the Emos, the Original won it. They called it an emo battle, not me. They also called it Edgelord too, if you care for that.



    And..
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    Ganon vs Dracula (from Castlevania). Let's see, Ganon has appeared in some form in every Legend of Zelda bar I think that one handheld version, as himself, while Dracula straight up DIED for good halfway through his own series. Unless I'm missing something, I think Ganon(dorf) has this.

  8. - Top - End - #548
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    Quote Originally Posted by HolyDraconus View Post
    Lets dive right in.
    Spoiler: The Winner is...
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    NOT Sasuke??! Actually, they did pull a LOT more data than I was expecting to come up with the winner of this fight. They scaled Sasuke to Naruto, as I figured, and kept both the moon buster feat ( even though its hollow) and Naruto's light speed feat, which I also figured. And the Rinnegan was tossed in as well. AND the soul ripping ability was mentioned as well.. AND Boruto's crap was mentioned also. Hiei though, just muscled through. I didn't think they would pull feats from the movies for Hiei but it wasn't used regardless, just mentioned. So does that count? They did show the fact that Hiei can tank the elemental attacks Sasuke can throw out, since he's practically immune to fire and ice, being a fire and ice hybrid demon, and tanked a powerful electrical attack during the Dark Tournament Arc, so he resists Kirin as well. And they did mention the feats I brought up here, with Yusuke being a lightning timer and Hiei cutting a man with a fire sword that was supposed to be immune to cuts and fire >.< HOWEVER, they did something that I found extremely rare for them: they admitted that the fight in certain instances CAN go the other way, and mentioned that OVERALL Hiei just had a higher CHANCE at winning. Strange. So there you go. In the battle of the Emos, the Original won it. They called it an emo battle, not me. They also called it Edgelord too, if you care for that.
    Huh.

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    I mostly assumed what was going to happen was that Hiei would exhaust himself before he could break Sasuke's... whatever that guardian Tengu shield technique was called. Hiei's extremely durable, tanking some heavy hits that as if he were Saitama in the tournament arc, but his spiritual power supply is somewhat limited with his best technique.


    Quote Originally Posted by HolyDraconus View Post
    And..
    Spoiler: Next Time on Death Battle.
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    Ganon vs Dracula (from Castlevania). Let's see, Ganon has appeared in some form in every Legend of Zelda bar I think that one handheld version, as himself, while Dracula straight up DIED for good halfway through his own series. Unless I'm missing something, I think Ganon(dorf) has this.
    Dracula's resurrected numerous times over a millennium, and then reincarnated as the protagonist of Aria of Sorrow all the way in the 2030's. Conceptually it's really not that much different than Ganondorf's appearances, which according to the wiki Ganondorf did in fact die and was reincarnated each game until Ocarina of Time where he apparently is just him several times over.

    I don't know, I've enjoyed the LoZ games I've played, but I've never cared for the lore or tried to fix it into some over-arching narrative with it or really any Nintendo game. I just treat it as Final Fantasy and have each game be its own thing but with some common internal mechanics and references.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitten Champion View Post
    Huh.

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    I mostly assumed what was going to happen was that Hiei would exhaust himself before he could break Sasuke's... whatever that guardian Tengu shield technique was called. Hiei's extremely durable, tanking some heavy hits that as if he were Saitama in the tournament arc, but his spiritual power supply is somewhat limited with his best technique.




    Dracula's resurrected numerous times over a millennium, and then reincarnated as the protagonist of Aria of Sorrow all the way in the 2030's. Conceptually it's really not that much different than Ganondorf's appearances, which according to the wiki Ganondorf did in fact die and was reincarnated each game until Ocarina of Time where he apparently is just him several times over.

    I don't know, I've enjoyed the LoZ games I've played, but I've never cared for the lore or tried to fix it into some over-arching narrative with it or really any Nintendo game. I just treat it as Final Fantasy and have each game be its own thing but with some common internal mechanics and references.
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    It is weird that they didn't bring up endurance as a factor. Sasuke has some pretty absurd feats in that category. But still, I'm pretty impressed, because man does Hiei scale up a lot more then I thought he did.

    However, I do find the explosion feat they used to be pretty dubious. I mean, where did they get the numbers for the curvature of the planet? Or the distance from the girl to the arena? Or the height of the tree for that matter?
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  10. - Top - End - #550
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    Oh jee, the next Deathbattle is just going to be my FAVORITE no matter who wins.

  11. - Top - End - #551
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    Next time: Ganondorf vs. Dracula

    Wait, I'm confused. Didn't we go over this already in the Bowser vs Ganon fight? Ganondorf can only be permanently hurt by the Master Sword, Light Arrows or very specific holy magic.
    Does Dracula have the ability to use any of those?
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    Spoiler: Hiei x Sasuke
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    Huh... I didn't remember YYH scaling up that much by the end. I do think they are taking Genkai's "I don't have the power to stop you from destroying the world" way too literally. By "destroying the world", she most likely simply meant "destroying civilization" or "causing irreparable damage", not literally "blowing up the planet". Also, I think they overstated Hiei's telekinesis... It was only use once or twice for minor feats, IIRC.

    Still, this time I mostly agree with their analysis. Who knew... Sometimes even DB is right! Must be that time of the day when broken clocks shine!

    Quote Originally Posted by SKarious View Post
    Next time: Ganondorf vs. Dracula

    Wait, I'm confused. Didn't we go over this already in the Bowser vs Ganon fight? Ganondorf can only be permanently hurt by the Master Sword, Light Arrows or very specific holy magic.
    Does Dracula have the ability to use any of those?
    Deos it count as a death if the guy returns? Also, shouldn't Dracula technically be unkillable, since he's undead? Or does that mean he loses before the match even starts?
    Last edited by Lemmy; 2019-09-25 at 05:32 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SKarious View Post
    Next time: Ganondorf vs. Dracula

    Wait, I'm confused. Didn't we go over this already in the Bowser vs Ganon fight? Ganondorf can only be permanently hurt by the Master Sword, Light Arrows or very specific holy magic.
    Does Dracula have the ability to use any of those?
    He might be able to use Holy Magic. And/or some sort of light magic. But yeah, I think Ganondorf has got this. For all Dracula is eternally reborn, it's not exactly going to give him a win here. Even if Ganondorf can't hijack or corrupt the process somehow, Ganondorf has his own rebirth cycle, so if Dracula comes back in the future, Ganondorf will always be there to smack him down once again.
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  14. - Top - End - #554
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    Even worse, The Dorf just gets stronger as the cycle goes on, whereas Dracula to my knowledge stays pretty much the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    Even worse, The Dorf just gets stronger as the cycle goes on, whereas Dracula to my knowledge stays pretty much the same.
    But what happens when he reaches the maximum for the data type? Wrap around to negatives?
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    Deos it count as a death if the guy returns? Also, shouldn't Dracula technically be unkillable, since he's undead? Or does that mean he loses before the match even starts?
    Past DBs have declared that reducing an immortal opponent to a state where they can't fight anymore counts as a win, so it's probably going to be down to whoever is reduced to jam last.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    Spoiler: Hiei x Sasuke
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    Huh... I didn't remember YYH scaling up that much by the end. I do think they are taking Genkai's "I don't have the power to stop you from destroying the world" way too literally. By "destroying the world", she most likely simply meant "destroying civilization" or "causing irreparable damage", not literally "blowing up the planet". Also, I think they overstated Hiei's telekinesis... It was only use once or twice for minor feats, IIRC.

    Still, this time I mostly agree with their analysis. Who knew... Sometimes even DB is right! Must be that time of the day when broken clocks shine!


    Deos it count as a death if the guy returns? Also, shouldn't Dracula technically be unkillable, since he's undead? Or does that mean he loses before the match even starts?
    Spoiler: yea....
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    There was a massive spike in power in YYH in the last arc, when Yusuke became a demon. Specifically, right before he died the second time, when he fight and got owned by Sensui. Following the training montage and the revelation that Yusuke's old man (not father son but still) even while STARVING near death is vastly stronger than anything and anyone else, they hit early DBZ levels fairly fast. The power difference is something akin to Cell during the Saiyan Arc. Full strength and he would be.. well... a monster. Something along the lines of their power was felt throughout the entirety of the Demon World, which if you want to nitpick, is like a dimension of its own. Genkai may be a lying old bat, but she was confirmed earlier when Sensui admitted to NEEDING to reserve his power in the Human World or risk it being destroyed simply by existing there. They simply get that strong. The Yusuke feat they pulled up for the power scaling was when he lost the VAST majority of his power. So by rights, it SHOULD be higher. Though they did admit that Hiei doesn't have solid speed feats, outside of just being stated that he is fast. But I agree with ya. sometimes a broken clock tells the correct time.


    It should be a stomp. Ganon(dorf) technically comes back with all his crap and needing specific crap to pend down, which isn't permanent. Dracula HAS died permanently; its the only way that he would be allowed to reincarnate. He started off also needing holy items to be put down but over the years it changed to just someone of the right mentality (looking at you Hector) or sufficient power (looking at you Shanoa). Ganon(dorf) doesn't have that hiccup. Holy items and the Champion or you're dust. plain and simple. If they are removing the immortality stick I still think that Ganon(dorf) has enough feats to back up his title. Dracula doesn't do much onscreen. Hasn't since he stopped being human really.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HolyDraconus View Post
    Spoiler: yea....
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    There was a massive spike in power in YYH in the last arc, when Yusuke became a demon. Specifically, right before he died the second time, when he fight and got owned by Sensui. Following the training montage and the revelation that Yusuke's old man (not father son but still) even while STARVING near death is vastly stronger than anything and anyone else, they hit early DBZ levels fairly fast. The power difference is something akin to Cell during the Saiyan Arc. Full strength and he would be.. well... a monster. Something along the lines of their power was felt throughout the entirety of the Demon World, which if you want to nitpick, is like a dimension of its own. Genkai may be a lying old bat, but she was confirmed earlier when Sensui admitted to NEEDING to reserve his power in the Human World or risk it being destroyed simply by existing there. They simply get that strong. The Yusuke feat they pulled up for the power scaling was when he lost the VAST majority of his power. So by rights, it SHOULD be higher. Though they did admit that Hiei doesn't have solid speed feats, outside of just being stated that he is fast. But I agree with ya. sometimes a broken clock tells the correct time.


    It should be a stomp. Ganon(dorf) technically comes back with all his crap and needing specific crap to pend down, which isn't permanent. Dracula HAS died permanently; its the only way that he would be allowed to reincarnate. He started off also needing holy items to be put down but over the years it changed to just someone of the right mentality (looking at you Hector) or sufficient power (looking at you Shanoa). Ganon(dorf) doesn't have that hiccup. Holy items and the Champion or you're dust. plain and simple. If they are removing the immortality stick I still think that Ganon(dorf) has enough feats to back up his title. Dracula doesn't do much onscreen. Hasn't since he stopped being human really.

    Dracula, erm how do I put this? In Lords of Shadow, he does indeed have the power to fight with holy magic and is God's champion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Durkoala View Post
    Past DBs have declared that reducing an immortal opponent to a state where they can't fight anymore counts as a win, so it's probably going to be down to whoever is reduced to jam last.
    You know.. That comment was just a joke...

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthArminius View Post
    Dracula, erm how do I put this? In Lords of Shadow, he does indeed have the power to fight with holy magic and is God's champion.
    Yeah, but that was before he became Dracula. I never played the 2nd LoS game, so I might be wrong, but I'd assume he lost the ability to use holy weapons when he became an evil undead abomination.

    - - -

    OTOH, I really dislike when DB decides based on "this character can only be harmed/killed by this one very specific item, and the opponent doesn't have it". First because that clause only means that nothing else in the character's native universe can harm them, but that doesn't necessarily apply to things from a completely different universe that follows completely different rules. Second because it feels like a cop out. You essentially make a character invincible, so why bother actually analyzing the character's strengths and weaknesses? Third, because it's boring.
    Last edited by Lemmy; 2019-09-26 at 12:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    - - -

    OTOH, I really dislike when DB decides based on "this character can only be harmed/killed by this one very specific item, and the opponent doesn't have it". First because that clause only means that nothing else in the character's native universe can harm them, but that doesn't necessarily apply to things from a completely different universe that follows completely different rules. Second because it feels like a cop out. You essentially make a character invincible, so why bother actually analyzing the character's strengths and weaknesses? Third, because it's boring.
    AKA the Stand effect. It makes sense that Stands can only be affected by other Stands in-universe but when you start looking at crossovers that falls apart.

    Regarding Ganondorf, I could see excessive power working. We do see the Divine Beasts and the Guardians do damage to him after all. So something with even more power should be able to take him down.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    You know.. That comment was just a joke...

    Yeah, but that was before he became Dracula. I never played the 2nd LoS game, so I might be wrong, but I'd assume he lost the ability to use holy weapons when he became an evil undead abomination.

    Dracula was still God's champion, though, even as Dracula.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    OTOH, I really dislike when DB decides based on "this character can only be harmed/killed by this one very specific item, and the opponent doesn't have it". First because that clause only means that nothing else in the character's native universe can harm them, but that doesn't necessarily apply to things from a completely different universe that follows completely different rules. Second because it feels like a cop out. You essentially make a character invincible, so why bother actually analyzing the character's strengths and weaknesses? Third, because it's boring.
    Was this ever really important? Sure, they mention it from time to time. But there is always some loophole for the opponent, like them having a very similar item and DB ruling that it would work. What I remember coming up several time is the opposite: Some character has a devastating superweapon but it only affects demons/ghosts/evil and does therefore not work on their DB opponent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seppl View Post
    Was this ever really important? Sure, they mention it from time to time. But there is always some loophole for the opponent, like them having a very similar item and DB ruling that it would work. What I remember coming up several time is the opposite: Some character has a devastating superweapon but it only affects demons/ghosts/evil and does therefore not work on their DB opponent.
    That was basically why Lobo lost. He didn't have a weapon that could actually hurt Ghost Rider since it wasn't part of his standard arsenal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    That was basically why Lobo lost. He didn't have a weapon that could actually hurt Ghost Rider since it wasn't part of his standard arsenal.
    Exactly. Usually if there is a case like that there is either a workaround or it doesnt matter because the guy who can only be hurt by blah blah blah is also so powerful it didnt even matter because his opponent couldnt keep up anyways. Its funny though because lobo had his own cant die abilities such as his stupid healing factor and the fact that death literally cant claim him so all he does is keep fighting as a ghost till his body reforms then gets back to fragging bastiches. But of course ghost rider has the ability to destroy and devour souls depending on his mood so that was the work around.
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  25. - Top - End - #565
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    By the way I just noticed this: Why Superman can’t beat Shazam

    Seems it has nothing to do with his magic according to the Man of Tomorrow himself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    It would have been awesome if the writers had put as much thought into it as you guys do.
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    You know.. That comment was just a joke...
    My ability to deduce tone on the the internet isn't the greatest...
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    Quote Originally Posted by HolyDraconus View Post
    It should be a stomp. Ganon(dorf) technically comes back with all his crap and needing specific crap to pend down, which isn't permanent. Dracula HAS died permanently; its the only way that he would be allowed to reincarnate. He started off also needing holy items to be put down but over the years it changed to just someone of the right mentality (looking at you Hector) or sufficient power (looking at you Shanoa). Ganon(dorf) doesn't have that hiccup. Holy items and the Champion or you're dust. plain and simple. If they are removing the immortality stick I still think that Ganon(dorf) has enough feats to back up his title. Dracula doesn't do much onscreen. Hasn't since he stopped being human really.
    I mean, it really depends on which version of Dracula you use; there's been hundreds, maybe thousands of different versions over the years. He's probably one of the most used characters around, and some versions are completely ridiculous. Like take Vampire Hunter D, where Dracula is basically a god. Ganondorf might be powerful, but he is definitely not a god. Now I imagine they're going to stick to the Castlevania games and not go into the massive publication history of Dracula, but we'll see.
    I don't know about angels, but it's fear that gives men wings - Max Payne

  28. - Top - End - #568
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    You know, a thought occurs to me that if Deathbattles ever actually did revisit goku vs Superman again, that based on how they handled Ben 10 vs Green Lantern(Giving Hal the feats of literally every Green Lantern and ignoring that Alien X withstood an explosion of more power than a single Green Lantern can possibly possess) that even if they threw out their original stats and used accurate interpretations of both characters and updated for the data introduced in DB Super...

    They'd probably just start drawing feats from that Marvel/DC crossover comic where Superman became a Herald of Galactus and use that to justify Clark being a Universe Buster.
    Last edited by Rater202; 2019-09-27 at 11:57 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    Quote Originally Posted by Reddish Mage View Post
    By the way I just noticed this: Why Superman can’t beat Shazam

    Seems it has nothing to do with his magic according to the Man of Tomorrow himself.
    That sounds like a bit of a cop out, frankly. "Superman cant win because he doesn't want to win" rather misses the point of the question. It matters for the plot, to a point, but it doesn't actually say anything about whether Superman could win if he just cuts loose.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    "Why can't Superman beat magic-powered Knock Off Superman that DC won in a lawsuit" seems like a silly question to be asking.

    It's like asking "Why can't Batman beat a Batman that's exactly the same except he's willing to use lethal force."
    Last edited by Rater202; 2019-09-27 at 12:56 PM.
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    Spoiler: Ode To Meteors, By zimmerwald
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
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    Way down the air
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