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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    Quote Originally Posted by Reddish Mage View Post
    Sometimes I feel like we don't have people that actually read DC comics in this thread. Can you give us a story or two we haven't mentioned where Hal does this sort of thing?
    I read DC comics quite a bit and as far as I'm aware Hal is not capable of time travel, nor is he capable of fighting omnipotent beings.

    I'm sure there's a story somewhere where he does it, because comics are dumb and inconsistent, but it's far from his typical depiction. He's usually a planet buster at best, and I can't think of a single story in the dozens of his arcs that I've read where he's been capable of time travel. Parralax could probably do those things, but Parralax isn't Hal. It's a being that was possessing him for a time that he explicitly got rid of. He was also the Spectre for a bit, who can ostensibly do literally anything, but that's another temporary power up that he explicitly no longer has.
    Last edited by Anteros; 2019-06-30 at 09:31 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    I read DC comics quite a bit and as far as I'm aware Hal is not capable of time travel, nor is he capable of fighting omnipotent beings.

    I'm sure there's a story somewhere where he does it, because comics are dumb and inconsistent, but it's far from his typical depiction. He's usually a planet buster at best, and I can't think of a single story in the dozens of his arcs that I've read where he's been capable of time travel. Parralax could probably do those things, but Parralax isn't Hal. It's a being that was possessing him for a time that he explicitly got rid of. He was also the Spectre for a bit, who can ostensibly do literally anything, but that's another temporary power up that he explicitly no longer has.
    It's comics, everyone has done everything if you look hard enough. That being said. how he was depicted in DBattle is Technically true, but I'm going to toss in that whole, " spirit of the character thing again. "
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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devonix View Post
    It's comics, everyone has done everything if you look hard enough. That being said. how he was depicted in DBattle is Technically true, but I'm going to toss in that whole, " spirit of the character thing again. "
    Believe me, you're preaching to the choir here.

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    So, is anyone still invested enough to bet on the upcoming fight?
    I'm going with Cage winning. While Falcon might have more raw power and possibly better reflexes, Cage has him beat in experience, technique and consistent wins.
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  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    There was a time GL could time-travel... At that time, he also had a weakness to wood and the color yellow. So they kept their power but not the weakness. They also assumed Hal is able to do a bunch of other things just because other GL are seen doing them (that like assuming every Sorcerer knows every spell another Sorcerer has used). Finally, their justification for Ben having his arm cut is just that a villain, at one point, wanted to do it (but never got the chance to actually try). And that's just the stuff I can think off the top of my head.

    It's like the meme goes...

    GvS: "I'm the most controversial and clearly biased DB match."
    B10xGL: "Hold my space-beer..."
    Last edited by Lemmy; 2019-07-01 at 09:47 AM.

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    There was a time GL could time-travel... At that time, he also had a weakness to wood and the color yellow. So they kept their power but not the weakness. They also assumed Hal is able to do a bunch of other things just because other GL are seen doing them (that like assuming every Sorcerer knows every spell another Sorcerer has used). Finally, their justification for Ben having his arm cut is just that a villain, at one point, wanted to do it (but never got the chance to actually try). And that's just the stuff I can think off the top of my head.

    It's like the meme goes...

    GvS: "I'm the most controversial and clearly biased DB match."
    B10xGL: "Hold my space-beer..."
    I don't think theres a lot of controversy here. That match was poorly done.
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  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Well, the most biased was definitely when they had their own character beat Tifa. The most poorly thought out was...gosh I don't even know. There's so many to choose from. Maybe Korra vs Garra?

    They keep us talking about them though, even though I barely ever watch the videos anymore, which is the whole point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    Well, the most biased was definitely when they had their own character beat Tifa. The most poorly thought out was...gosh I don't even know. There's so many to choose from. Maybe Korra vs Garra?

    They keep us talking about them though, even though I barely ever watch the videos anymore, which is the whole point.
    toph versus garra I think you mean. And honestly, I think the rogue/wonder woman fight was far worse thought out. At least with flash and quicksilver they let the clearly superior combatant win. Rogue/ Wonder Woman was just as much of a stomp, but they inexplicably decided the far weaker character would win.
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  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    Who won in Flash v Quicksilver?

    Because that matchup happened in canon(Avengers/JLA is considered canon to both Marvel's main continuity and Post Crisis DC) and canonically, Flash wins under normal circumstances but Quicksilver wins if Flash is limited to his own inherant power(As opposed to tapping the speed force for extra juice.)
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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Who won in Flash v Quicksilver?
    Flash, by a landslide. To absolutely nobody's surprise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Who won in Flash v Quicksilver?

    Because that matchup happened in canon(Avengers/JLA is considered canon to both Marvel's main continuity and Post Crisis DC) and canonically, Flash wins under normal circumstances but Quicksilver wins if Flash is limited to his own inherant power(As opposed to tapping the speed force for extra juice.)
    Yeah flash won easy, but they gave us a race fight first before letting the obvious no duh winner get his victory. Even with every powerup quicksilver has ever had, he just never once approached the peaks of the flash and his raw power over speed.
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  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    To keep things going...
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    Captain Falcon... cause of his car. Seriously. Cage has some powerful abilities but it was more or less stated that he doesn't scale to gods even though his powers were tailor made to combat.. excuse me.. Kombat them.


    And....

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    Aang vs Edward? Seriously? Like if Aang doesn't outright stomp this fight I don't even. Like, I haven't read or seen Fullmetal Alchemist in years, but I'm was fairly certain that he doesn't have anything that can compete with the Avatar state Aang has. soooo.... yea.

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Even ignoring their previously established extreme bias towards Avatar, Aang is basically a God at full power.

    The only possible way I'm seeing Aang lose is if they arbitrarily exclude one his established abillities for the sake of making the animation more entertaining at the cost of it ignoring logic and data accuracy.
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  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    Quote Originally Posted by SKarious View Post
    So, is anyone still invested enough to bet on the upcoming fight?
    I'm going with Cage winning. While Falcon might have more raw power and possibly better reflexes, Cage has him beat in experience, technique and consistent wins.
    I haven't seen it yet, but I'm guessing Falcon wins, because raw power and better reflexes is more quantifiable, and thus more important in the eyes of the DB cast.


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    Darn. I mean, I like FMA, a lot. But against Aang? Ow, that's not going to go well. Ed can do some pretty amazing things, but he just lacks the brute power to win. Well that, and the Avatar will likely tear Ed's stuff apart as he makes it. Seriously, Mustang would be a better opponent, because he at least has the raw speed and lethality to maybe, maybe, take out the Avatar before he can react.

    But Ed, who likes to make things out of stone, metal, and the like? Aang's earthbending can counter all of it. Ed's best chance is if he could fight indoors, but Aang can just level the building.

    On that note, I do thing Ed could win with prep time/foreknowledge of Aang and what his abilities were.
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  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
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    Even ignoring their previously established extreme bias towards Avatar, Aang is basically a God at full power.

    The only possible way I'm seeing Aang lose is if they arbitrarily exclude one his established abillities for the sake of making the animation more entertaining at the cost of it ignoring logic and data accuracy.
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    Pretty much.

    Edward simply has more limitations and while he is incredibly intelligent, it simply doesn't stand up to Aang's raw power. and while Alchemy is flexible, its not as manipulable as bending which can be more freestyle and just flow from one thing to another while Edward has to clap his hands together for every single transmutation.

    with no real evidence that Ed can transmute air. he mostly transmutes things that are solid, and I don't remember him transmuting liquids. and while Mustang makes fire, it isn't as flexible as Zuko's bending.

    so while Ed could in theory mess with Aang's earthbending (which isn't something Aang would use that much in the first place compared to other elements) his airbending, firebending and waterbending would be harder to deal with. especially since all of Eds transmutations seem to involve touching the ground.

    heck, I'd question Edward's ability to take out someone like Zahir who can just fly above whatever transmutations he can and suffocate Edward to death, and the Avatar can do far more than that. (honestly Zahir would make more sense as a match up since Zahir would be closer to his power level AND is willing to kill).
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  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Who wants to bet that the fight will end with Aang bending Ed's metal arm and leg off? Mustang would destroy Aang. He'd just kill him right at the start of the fight while Aang is still goofing off. Ed also has that potential, but he likes to play with his opponents and once Aang gets serious he doesn't have a chance. Maybe they're planning on giving him a philosopher stone to balance things out, but even if they do he just doesn't have the firepower.

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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

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    Edward pros: More intelligent, arguably more experienced, can transmute metal

    Aang pros: Literally everything else

    Seems fair.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
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    Pretty much.

    Edward simply has more limitations and while he is incredibly intelligent, it simply doesn't stand up to Aang's raw power. and while Alchemy is flexible, its not as manipulable as bending which can be more freestyle and just flow from one thing to another while Edward has to clap his hands together for every single transmutation.

    with no real evidence that Ed can transmute air. he mostly transmutes things that are solid, and I don't remember him transmuting liquids. and while Mustang makes fire, it isn't as flexible as Zuko's bending.

    so while Ed could in theory mess with Aang's earthbending (which isn't something Aang would use that much in the first place compared to other elements) his airbending, firebending and waterbending would be harder to deal with. especially since all of Eds transmutations seem to involve touching the ground.

    heck, I'd question Edward's ability to take out someone like Zahir who can just fly above whatever transmutations he can and suffocate Edward to death, and the Avatar can do far more than that. (honestly Zahir would make more sense as a match up since Zahir would be closer to his power level AND is willing to kill).
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    to transmute air, as thats how mustangs ability works. He transmutes the air into a flammable composition he ignites with a spark from his gloves or a lighter or something and can direct it wherever he wants. Now if edward has ever done that im not sure, he tends to be far more straightforward and stabby/bludgeony when it comes to dealing with combat, occasionally exploding cannonballs. But death battle does seem to enjoy basically saying everyone in the same group is capable of doing what anyone else can, like green lantern, so it wouldnt shock me if they just gave Ed the abilities of every nonhomunculi in the setting. They would kinda have to to make this remotely a workable fight.
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  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

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    You know, I just thought of who would've been a good match for Aang. Father. Someone who can use every alchemy technique, who is virtually invincible, and can wield any element he wants.
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  20. - Top - End - #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
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    Who wants to bet that the fight will end with Aang bending Ed's metal arm and leg off? Mustang would destroy Aang. He'd just kill him right at the start of the fight while Aang is still goofing off. Ed also has that potential, but he likes to play with his opponents and once Aang gets serious he doesn't have a chance. Maybe they're planning on giving him a philosopher stone to balance things out, but even if they do he just doesn't have the firepower.
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    I dunno, Aang never demonstrated any interest in or aptitude with metalbending, not even during the grownup Aang scenes we saw. I feel like it would be a stretch to give that to him, because it seems like a highly-specialized skill that only winds up being demonstrated by a child prodigy who's deeply familiar with the base element (Toph) and an elite crew of highly-trained specialists (the metalbending cops).
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  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarpeGuitarrem View Post
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    I dunno, Aang never demonstrated any interest in or aptitude with metalbending, not even during the grownup Aang scenes we saw. I feel like it would be a stretch to give that to him, because it seems like a highly-specialized skill that only winds up being demonstrated by a child prodigy who's deeply familiar with the base element (Toph) and an elite crew of highly-trained specialists (the metalbending cops).
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    Its a skill he at least theoretically has access to and almost certainly has an at least academic understanding of the functionality. That gives him a better claim on it than at least a few other powers DB has handed out in their videos.

    Having said that, I think its more likely they'll go with the "airbending is freaking terrifying if the wielder isn't a pacifist monk" route, since they really love to extrapolate powers and abilities characters don't normally demonstrate of have, and this way they can at least do so somewhat legitimately.
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    Quote Originally Posted by CarpeGuitarrem View Post
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    I dunno, Aang never demonstrated any interest in or aptitude with metalbending, not even during the grownup Aang scenes we saw. I feel like it would be a stretch to give that to him, because it seems like a highly-specialized skill that only winds up being demonstrated by a child prodigy who's deeply familiar with the base element (Toph) and an elite crew of highly-trained specialists (the metalbending cops).
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    Korra was explicitly declared the first ever metalbending Avatar, implicitly saying that Aang never learned it.
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    Should I still spoiler last time? I guess...

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    I didn't really have any stakes in this but I'm still slightly irked by Falcon using his car as a weapon, no matter how much they are connected. It feels like cheating.
    Also, maybe I'm just having a bad day because I tend to gloss over this but DB's tendency to give ridiculously accurate numbers for impossible estimates is laughable. Six digits on the estimate of the destructive force of an explosion you know hardly anything about? And what is a measure to "fill an area with electricity"? How do you even get such a number, that's not literally a thing.


    Next time... Yeah, I don't see this going well.
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    Edward is clearly outmatched, so... maybe there is some feat he has done that actually translates to a massive amount of energy. Or they'll argue that alchemy isn't fueled by your own power but from the outside and as long as you know how to do it, you can do it? You could argue he'd be able of the same feats as Father. He's seen the truth.
    But apart from that, even without metal bending or I'd argue even without avatar state, Aang surpasses Edward in almost everything, except killing intent and maybe intelligence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kato View Post
    Should I still spoiler last time? I guess...

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    I didn't really have any stakes in this but I'm still slightly irked by Falcon using his car as a weapon, no matter how much they are connected. It feels like cheating.
    Also, maybe I'm just having a bad day because I tend to gloss over this but DB's tendency to give ridiculously accurate numbers for impossible estimates is laughable. Six digits on the estimate of the destructive force of an explosion you know hardly anything about? And what is a measure to "fill an area with electricity"? How do you even get such a number, that's not literally a thing.


    Next time... Yeah, I don't see this going well.
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    Edward is clearly outmatched, so... maybe there is some feat he has done that actually translates to a massive amount of energy. Or they'll argue that alchemy isn't fueled by your own power but from the outside and as long as you know how to do it, you can do it? You could argue he'd be able of the same feats as Father. He's seen the truth.
    But apart from that, even without metal bending or I'd argue even without avatar state, Aang surpasses Edward in almost everything, except killing intent and maybe intelligence.
    Spoilers are a good idea still, it just came out on youtube afterall.
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    That was a stupid calculation. The car thing does feel cheap, but it's fair enough. After all, it's Captain Falcon's most iconic piece of equipment. It does put a martial artist against a freaking space ship though.
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  25. - Top - End - #55
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    The thing is,
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    I think below the avatar state, this might be closer than we think. While aang has all the elements at his command, he tends to be fairly straightforward and simplistic in his attacks, whereas ed if anything, tends to overdo things such as creating vast swarms of rock pillars to smash his target all over the place at once. Plus, ed can do everything with the exact same motion, whether its creating a barrier, or transforming a building into a giant cannon. Aangs bigger moves tend to be slower I think as it takes a lot more motion to create what he is after. With ed its clap hands, slap surface, and do whatever your imagination wants. I think what its really going to come down to though, is similar to toph versus garra, and ed is going to find everything he does coming right back at him due to avatar the last airbender being a magic system they seem to think rules supreme as they wont even let a ninja control his own possessed sand, let alone some punk alchemist crafting something and hurling it at aang.
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    The thing is,
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    I think below the avatar state, this might be closer than we think. While aang has all the elements at his command, he tends to be fairly straightforward and simplistic in his attacks, whereas ed if anything, tends to overdo things such as creating vast swarms of rock pillars to smash his target all over the place at once. Plus, ed can do everything with the exact same motion, whether its creating a barrier, or transforming a building into a giant cannon. Aangs bigger moves tend to be slower I think as it takes a lot more motion to create what he is after. With ed its clap hands, slap surface, and do whatever your imagination wants. I think what its really going to come down to though, is similar to toph versus garra, and ed is going to find everything he does coming right back at him due to avatar the last airbender being a magic system they seem to think rules supreme as they wont even let a ninja control his own possessed sand, let alone some punk alchemist crafting something and hurling it at aang.
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    we have seen multiple times in the show that a bender can "steal" control of bent materials. This was probably best seen in the fight between Katara and Pakku. Now, I won't get into the Garra fight as I'm unfamiliar with Naruto and whether or not he'd have some sort of magic connection to his sand that can reasonably trump Toph's will, but I will say that it is entirely fair for Aang to throw back anything Edward transmutes. Transmutation does not grant any sort of control over a thing after it is created. It's like building a computer program to do what you want and then letting it run on its own. Anyone can come along later and mess with it freely if they know how.
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
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    we have seen multiple times in the show that a bender can "steal" control of bent materials. This was probably best seen in the fight between Katara and Pakku. Now, I won't get into the Garra fight as I'm unfamiliar with Naruto and whether or not he'd have some sort of magic connection to his sand that can reasonably trump Toph's will, but I will say that it is entirely fair for Aang to throw back anything Edward transmutes. Transmutation does not grant any sort of control over a thing after it is created. It's like building a computer program to do what you want and then letting it run on its own. Anyone can come along later and mess with it freely if they know how.
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    Yes we see it multiple times, but not all the time. Why? Why isnt every bending battle one where two people are say, struggling over control of a single boulder to see who gets to hurl it at who?If aang can just control the elements no matter what, why does he spend so much of the show dodging or countering with his own attacks? I just dont want them to decide that nothing ed does matters unless he transmutes aang into a statue. Which he could actually do btw, not sure if aang has a counter for that other than "dont let him touch you" In fact, that might be how the battle goes. They face off flinging attacks at each other, aang starts to control everything ed sends, so ed goes for a direct contact human transmutation, he connects, aang starts to turn into a tree or something, then goes avatar mode and overwhelms ed.
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

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    While I do strongly suspect that this fight is going to go to Aang, I see two elements that could keep it from being a total curbstomp. The first is the fact that, if you can get past his bending, Aang isn't especially much more durable than your average 12-year-old, while Ed has endured some fairly severe injuries in the past and kept going, and DB does love heavily weighing durability in their calculations.
    The second factor, and potentially something that could even give Avatar State a run for its money, is the Philosopher Stone. If DB decides to give Ed access to a stone then that could radically alter how the fight goes in his favor given the sheer extent of the power up it grants alchemists.
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

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    I... have never played an F-Zero game, so take this with a grain of salt, but AFAIK there's at least three continuities they mashed together (the main games, the anime, and some games loosely based on the anime). The first has a man named Douglas Jay Falcon who's a reincarnation of a primordial god or something, and competes under his real name. The other two have a guy who uses Captain Falcon as an alias, and later passes it on to Rick Wheeler (English)/Ryu Suzaku (Japanese), with the anime version dying in the process. But the Smash Bros. version is the one people want to see in a fight, so they'd have to do some mashing anyway.

    ...but at the same time they took a guy with powers that make him more effective against gods, and made him fight someone who may or may not count as a god. So there's that.

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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
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    we have seen multiple times in the show that a bender can "steal" control of bent materials. This was probably best seen in the fight between Katara and Pakku. Now, I won't get into the Garra fight as I'm unfamiliar with Naruto and whether or not he'd have some sort of magic connection to his sand that can reasonably trump Toph's will, but I will say that it is entirely fair for Aang to throw back anything Edward transmutes. Transmutation does not grant any sort of control over a thing after it is created. It's like building a computer program to do what you want and then letting it run on its own. Anyone can come along later and mess with it freely if they know how.
    Aside everything else, yes Gaara does have a magic connection to his sand that can reasonably trump Toph's will: his sand (the core amount of it in his gourd, anyway) is ambiguously sentient and absolutely loyal to him since it's basically possessed by his mom's ghost. On top of that it's saturated in his own chakra (basically his own soul as well, as one component) to the point he wields it with basically no effort as an extension of his own will (when he even has to; it responds automatically and will protect him from threats he's not even aware of). That sand is both thematically and metaphysically part of him, like an extra limb.
    Last edited by Rynjin; 2019-07-03 at 07:33 PM.

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