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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    Quote Originally Posted by Reddish Mage View Post
    You can make an argument that these characters’ attributes are actually immeasurable or that any method you use to measure them is fundamentally flawed, but then there’s really no point to either Deathbattle or discussing these fights at all.
    Oh good, you finally achieved enlightenment. now you can continue doing this, knowing that it is pointless and that its OK for it be pointless. having fun is antithetical to having a point. you can't have both. having a point, is too serious for fun. I can't recall any time when having fun had a point, if there is someone who is capable having both at the same time I've certainly never met them and would be far more enlightened than I to somehow figure out how seriousness and fun can be the same thing, perhaps if you disagree, you can enlighten me in turn for I know nothing and clearly cannot conceive of it in my narrow frame of mind, I will not assume I know enough to disagree with anyone who says I'm wrong, because I probably am.

    Please someone explain how I'm wrong, I'm clearly in need of it, this post is pointless.
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    So, I'm not very informes about FMA, so I have a question:
    I understand Ed can make spikes, walls and cannons, but how does he fare in close combat?
    This seems to me a bit like that Kenshiro vs JoJo fight: if Aang can get in close enought to touch (and he probably could - he's very evasive) couldn't he just spiritbend Ed's powers away?

    On that matter, how accurate is Ed over range? Aang was beaten at range before by a unit of ultra-elite archers. Does Ed have any feats that compate to theirs?
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  3. - Top - End - #153
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    Quote Originally Posted by SKarious View Post
    So, I'm not very informes about FMA, so I have a question:
    I understand Ed can make spikes, walls and cannons, but how does he fare in close combat?
    This seems to me a bit like that Kenshiro vs JoJo fight: if Aang can get in close enought to touch (and he probably could - he's very evasive) couldn't he just spiritbend Ed's powers away?

    On that matter, how accurate is Ed over range? Aang was beaten at range before by a unit of ultra-elite archers. Does Ed have any feats that compate to theirs?
    Ed can deconstruct, basically destroying anything with a touch. So if he touches Aang, he wins.

    Ed has literally never hit anyone with a gun, even if he has made them. Though he might've bombarded Father with cannons and stuff. So put that down as a maybe.
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  4. - Top - End - #154
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    Ed can deconstruct, basically destroying anything with a touch. So if he touches Aang, he wins.

    Ed has literally never hit anyone with a gun, even if he has made them. Though he might've bombarded Father with cannons and stuff. So put that down as a maybe.
    Ed has done plenty of damage with say, long pillars of stone. Watch the big final showdown of brotherhood where he goes nuts because of Al and just proceeds to utterly pummel Father with a barrage of attacks, slices him with a hurled spear, and of course pummels him bare handed as well. Not so lucky with explosives I think. I seem to remember him forming his cannon during his "dont call me short" freakouts as a gag, and getting one blown up trying to fight mustang. But its been so long I dont even recall for sure.
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Ed has done plenty of damage with say, long pillars of stone. Watch the big final showdown of brotherhood where he goes nuts because of Al and just proceeds to utterly pummel Father with a barrage of attacks, slices him with a hurled spear, and of course pummels him bare handed as well. Not so lucky with explosives I think. I seem to remember him forming his cannon during his "dont call me short" freakouts as a gag, and getting one blown up trying to fight mustang. But its been so long I dont even recall for sure.
    Ugh. That is such a terrible scene to be the climax of such an amazing anime. "Oh hey, the uber monster that is going to kill us all is finally showing weakness? Let's just stand around and hope the handicapped midget wins a fist fight instead of using our dozens of guns and amazing magical powers to help! Let's also all cheer as if he's doing something amazing and not something literally any of us could be doing!" I forgot how bad it was.

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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    Ugh. That is such a terrible scene to be the climax of such an amazing anime. "Oh hey, the uber monster that is going to kill us all is finally showing weakness? Let's just stand around and hope the handicapped midget wins a fist fight instead of using our dozens of guns and amazing magical powers to help! Let's also all cheer as if he's doing something amazing and not something literally any of us could be doing!" I forgot how bad it was.
    It works better when you get to enjoy the buildup. After all, everyone else already TRIED that and it failed. The soldiers unloaded enough mortars and bullets to wipe out a small army, both mustang and armstrong tried their hardest along with ed, all the rest did their part as well, then when it seemed like they were making progress and wearing him down he unleashed a massive attack that knocked everyone on their butts and impaled eds arm on the rebar and started stumbling for him. Nobody was able to get up and fight at that point, and all they could do was watch as Al sacrificed himself to heal ed, and thats when he unleashed heck on Father. I do agree it seems a bit off even with all that, but its a lot less jarring then.
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    It works better when you get to enjoy the buildup. After all, everyone else already TRIED that and it failed. The soldiers unloaded enough mortars and bullets to wipe out a small army, both mustang and armstrong tried their hardest along with ed, all the rest did their part as well, then when it seemed like they were making progress and wearing him down he unleashed a massive attack that knocked everyone on their butts and impaled eds arm on the rebar and started stumbling for him. Nobody was able to get up and fight at that point, and all they could do was watch as Al sacrificed himself to heal ed, and thats when he unleashed heck on Father. I do agree it seems a bit off even with all that, but its a lot less jarring then.
    I've seen the entire series and thought it was dumb in context as well. You can say no one could get up to fight but there are literally hundreds of completely uninjured people standing and doing nothing in the scene. It would be different if they were somehow separated, or if Ed won with a clever or unique strategy only he could have done...but he literally just kinda knocks Father around a bit and then he falls down. The series deserved a better climax.

  8. - Top - End - #158
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    I've seen the entire series and thought it was dumb in context as well. You can say no one could get up to fight but there are literally hundreds of completely uninjured people standing and doing nothing in the scene. It would be different if they were somehow separated, or if Ed won with a clever or unique strategy only he could have done...but he literally just kinda knocks Father around a bit and then he falls down. The series deserved a better climax.
    Yeah, the fight against Father wasn't that good, and I think is the worst fight in the series. It's way too long, and comes off of some really excellent fights, making it feel even worse. And as you said, everyone standing there wasn't that good.
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  9. - Top - End - #159
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    So I don't know about you plebs who haven't got RTs FIRST membership when it went on sale for a hot minute before the promised increase, but I know the result of this weeks DEATHBATTLE:

    Spoiler: Aang vs. Ed - Who lost
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    What a shocking turn of events!


    Spoiler: Lightning Analysis
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    I question the analysis of lightning dodging - the fact that Aang clearly is depicted as dodging lightning...which of course means he's faster than the speed of light....isn't consistent with anything like his other speed feats. So we come to the perennial problem of how to treat such obvious ridiculous speed feats.

    I'm wondering what they mean by Edward's own lightning dodging. When and where does that occur? It happens multiple times, apparently.
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  10. - Top - End - #160
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    I've always assumed in Avatar they - firebenders and Aang - dodged the lightning by feeling the change in atmosphere to sense the path the lightning would arc through before the electricity flowed through it and more importantly by reading the Bending movements of their opponents.

    Otherwise they should just be dead, or move like they're in the Matrix at all times if they can move in excess of 25000 km/s.

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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    Quote Originally Posted by Reddish Mage View Post
    Spoiler: Lightning Analysis
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    I question the analysis of lightning dodging - the fact that Aang clearly is depicted as dodging lightning...which of course means he's faster than the speed of light....isn't consistent with anything like his other speed feats. So we come to the perennial problem of how to treat such obvious ridiculous speed feats.

    I'm wondering what they mean by Edward's own lightning dodging. When and where does that occur? It happens multiple times, apparently.
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    Minor aside here... Lightning doesn't travel as fast as light. Not even close.
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    Spoiler: lightning fast
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    true, lightning doesn't travel as fast light.

    it can only go about a third of light speed.

    so. yes there is a distinction. but its not much of one. that still requires them to be dodging at about 220,000,000 miles per hour.

    so I'm guessing, Aang because hes dodged lightning and Ed hasn't?

    as for Ed.....eh......I'm not sure what they mean by Ed dodging lightning if they did refer to that. sure destructive alchemy, the deconstructive part of it has electrical aesthetics to it, but I wouldn't say its real electricity, Alchemy kind of predates the concept of electricity, so its not clear if Alchemy could pull off something to shoot lightning at people, and while lightning is plasma....you can only transmute something into plasma....if it has plasma like qualities as per the Second Law of Alchemy.

    I mean FMA does have telephones so they know what electricity IS, but whether they know how achieve lightning bolts with alchemy is an entirely different matter. I certainly don't remember any use of lightning in either show, so I don't know what DB is talking about if they mentioned Ed dodging lightning, a lot of what they faced were Homunculi and their attacks were more body horror changing their skin to be diamond hard or shapeshift, or alchemists who messed with materials...

    I guess Father could've thrown around lightning at some point in the Brotherhood I don't remember? If I recall, he did demonstrate some ability to make a miniature hand sized sun which implies he has the know-how and power to just....transmute air so that it condenses into a star, but I still don't specifically remember any instance of him throwing lightning around, but if there was anyone to do it, it would probably be him, since Father is most bull of the people in FMA.
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

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    I'd say there's quite a huge difference between "speed of light" and "1/3 speed of light"...

    And lightning isn't plasma (it isn't even matter). It's an electrical discharge. A powerful one, which can (and does) generate plasma.

    But pedantry aside, I always figured benders evaded/blocked/redirected lightning the same way people "evade" bullets: i.e.: observing the weapon, predicting the trajectory of the projectile and getting out of the way right before the trigger is pulled. Not actually dodging the freaking super-sonic projectile.

    Also, lightning attacks in media seem to move rather slowly (for lightning, that is).

    EDIT: I suppose, if alchemy can change the state of matter (e.g.: turn water into ice), it's theoretically possible that it can create plasma...
    Last edited by Lemmy; 2019-07-22 at 09:23 PM.
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    Y'all, check this out. If I stand in an open field and walk forward a few steps, and lightning hits the spot I was just standing in but doesn't hit me, that means I dodged lightning and have FTL walking speed. It's the law.

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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    Spoiler
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    EDIT: I suppose, if alchemy can change the state of matter (e.g.: turn water into ice), it's theoretically possible that it can create plasma...
    Spoiler
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    Assuming the alchemist understands how lightning strikes actually work/how electrical discharges propagate, I think you could do it similar to how Mustang's flames work - alchemize an ionized channel to your target, then create a charge and let the natural result take place. Cannot guarantee the speed or effectiveness of doing so, but 'throw a spark at something' should be comfortably within the hypothetical uses of alchemy. Assuming the alchemist in question is sufficiently familiar with electrical theory.

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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    Spoiler: lightning fast
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    true, lightning doesn't travel as fast light.

    it can only go about a third of light speed.

    so. yes there is a distinction. but its not much of one. that still requires them to be dodging at about 220,000,000 miles per hour.

    so I'm guessing, Aang because hes dodged lightning and Ed hasn't?

    as for Ed.....eh......I'm not sure what they mean by Ed dodging lightning if they did refer to that. sure destructive alchemy, the deconstructive part of it has electrical aesthetics to it, but I wouldn't say its real electricity, Alchemy kind of predates the concept of electricity, so its not clear if Alchemy could pull off something to shoot lightning at people, and while lightning is plasma....you can only transmute something into plasma....if it has plasma like qualities as per the Second Law of Alchemy.

    I mean FMA does have telephones so they know what electricity IS, but whether they know how achieve lightning bolts with alchemy is an entirely different matter. I certainly don't remember any use of lightning in either show, so I don't know what DB is talking about if they mentioned Ed dodging lightning, a lot of what they faced were Homunculi and their attacks were more body horror changing their skin to be diamond hard or shapeshift, or alchemists who messed with materials...
    Spoiler: lightning slow?
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    It is precisely my question as to what the lightning-like feats are in Fullmetal alchemist.

    The fact that Alchemy predates electricity means precisely zilch, it also predates the notion of the periodic table and it was believed you could turn lead into gold (I'm not precisely clear on how that works in Fullmetal).

    Achieving lightning seems to be in the sphere of things they should be able to do (and its been mentioned how you could do this even if you only could transmute material).

    Aang is shown quite clearly dodging and redirecting lightning from Firelord Ozai, and probably others, which is also quite clearly moving at multiple-frames of animation speeds. How you want to interpret that is up to you.

    Also, for the record, once you start talking about one of the characters being capable of reacting at a small-number fraction of the speed of light...it doesn't matter what the actual fraction is. Against anything not comprehensibly expressible as a fraction of the speed of light, that character will be so fast that everything else might as well be frozen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    It would have been awesome if the writers had put as much thought into it as you guys do.
    The laws of physics are not crying in a corner, they are bawling in the forums.

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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    Quote Originally Posted by Reddish Mage View Post
    Spoiler: lightning slow?
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    It is precisely my question as to what the lightning-like feats are in Fullmetal alchemist.

    The fact that Alchemy predates electricity means precisely zilch, it also predates the notion of the periodic table and it was believed you could turn lead into gold (I'm not precisely clear on how that works in Fullmetal).

    Achieving lightning seems to be in the sphere of things they should be able to do (and its been mentioned how you could do this even if you only could transmute material).

    Aang is shown quite clearly dodging and redirecting lightning from Firelord Ozai, and probably others, which is also quite clearly moving at multiple-frames of animation speeds. How you want to interpret that is up to you.

    Also, for the record, once you start talking about one of the characters being capable of reacting at a small-number fraction of the speed of light...it doesn't matter what the actual fraction is. Against anything not comprehensibly expressible as a fraction of the speed of light, that character will be so fast that everything else might as well be frozen.
    Spoiler: Lightning medium??
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    all I'm saying is that I'm just as confused as you on the "Ed dodging lightning" feats thing. I've seen both FMAs and if Edward has demonstrated it, I don't remember it.

    though after look up a few things, Father, the series antagonist could make mini-suns and fire big wave motion energy blasts from his hands. so maybe they're saying these feats are from Edward dodging from energy beams Father threw around in his final battle which might be light "enough" to qualify, but I can't find anything where Edward explicitly dodges them. I'll have to watch the episodes directly to see if Edward ever directly dodges one of those big beams, if you want to, you can also FMA: Brotherhood on Crunchyroll for free, so if you want to confirm that you can always watch....episode 62 and 63 which are episodes that Father is fought if you don't mind spoilers

    yeah, agreed on the light speed point, thats kind of why I said there wasn't much of a difference. near light speed is bull no matter how near the light speed and the distinction only matters to other near light-speeders.

    rewatched episode 62 of FMA: Brotherhood......no indication that he can dodge lightning-like attacks and in fact shows us he gets constantly HIT by Father's force push attacks. said big beam is in fact stopped by other people shielding Edward with themselves, like his immortal dad Hohenheim or Alphonse. Father just weakens from there and gets outwitted.

    so unless there is some lightning alchemist from some random episode that I've forgotten about and Ed dodges his attack there, I don't see where they are getting ed dodging lightning from, and sincerely doubt that there is, simply because FMA has a tight casting call for an anime of its kind, everyone is pretty known and serves a specific purpose with few or no extra people thrown in for no reason, and an alchemist wouldn't be some one-off rando, they'd be a big deal, especially if they could throw around lightning, since Mustang throwing around fire is a big deal, so a literal lightning fast attack would be an even bigger deal in FMA.

    so no, there is no indication that Edward Elric can dodge lightning.
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    Spoiler: Lightning medium??
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    all I'm saying is that I'm just as confused as you on the "Ed dodging lightning" feats thing. I've seen both FMAs and if Edward has demonstrated it, I don't remember it.
    Spoiler: lightning variable
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    I can't give you their analysis without spoiling Ed's speed, which we all agree is fairly important as to who the ultimate winner is (although being faster didn't help Weiss or Bayonetta). Suffice to say there's something to suggest Ed may or may not have done similar feats to Aang in the dodging department.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    It would have been awesome if the writers had put as much thought into it as you guys do.
    The laws of physics are not crying in a corner, they are bawling in the forums.

    Thanks to half-halfling for the avatar

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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    Quote Originally Posted by Reddish Mage View Post
    Spoiler: lightning variable
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    I can't give you their analysis without spoiling Ed's speed, which we all agree is fairly important as to who the ultimate winner is (although being faster didn't help Weiss or Bayonetta). Suffice to say there's something to suggest Ed may or may not have done similar feats to Aang in the dodging department.
    Spoiler: lightning inconstant
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    Eeeeeh, given how lightspeed reflex analysis tends to work out in general (not just in Death Battle, but in ALL in all VS. analyses) I would not be confident in whatever reason given. such reflexes tend to be very bull given the simple fact in that the vast majority of cases if the character can move that fast on reflex they must enough energy for the reflex to be powered by, it doesn't matter how automatic it is, you can't go third of lightspeed without having the energy to go third of lightspeed. and if that person has enough energy to do that, how do they ever get tired on a human scale?

    now maybe we can assume the entire world is somehow modified so that the lightning is the same but the person dodging it and all things related to that person and all things related to those are strengthened so that the person still operates on a human level at all other times, but that violates occam's razor, when its simpler to conclude that the lightning or any other attack isn't actually lightspeed/lightning speed because its magic and therefore not real lightning. this can simplify both FMA and Avatar's analyses I think, but if someone wants the more complex explanation for whatever reason, they're welcome to it.
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    Spoiler: lightning inconstant
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    ... if that person has enough energy to do that, how do they ever get tired on a human scale?

    ...maybe we can assume the entire world is somehow modified so that the lightning is the same but the person dodging it and all things related to that person and all things related to those are strengthened so that the person still operates on a human level at all other times, but that violates occam's razor
    Spoiler: some grounding
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    Despite constantly calling you out on this...somehow you have it in your head that stuff like real life energy requirements to do a feat that should somehow inform our analysis of these characters that can cause explosions that rival (or exceed) nuclear blasts by waiving their hands and rearrange continents.

    I honestly think you imagine there is a physics to superhero battles, as if with but minor tweaks to the laws of physics you could find these characters in the dimension next door...rather than getting there by putting our universe's laws in a blender and making some major mathematically nonsensical overhauls.

    Literally everything about a a human going at relativistic speeds on their own power is wrong. You can find YouTube videos about it. At those speeds even the air should pose enough resistance to splatter a person (much like hitting the water straight on at terminal velocity).

    Superstrength? Similar problems. Recently I noted the video about how just swinging around a big sword like Cloud's would require shoulders that can handle more torque than the fastest racing car in existence. Although strong, most big sword welders are not depicted as having Hulk like strength and not as having super durability. Durability of all the supporting bones muscles and ligaments needs to be magnified far more times than muscle power to make many basic super strength feats work (like the super jump, the superhero landing and the car toss).

    Real physics have long since left the building, we are going based on raw intuitions regarding how to interpret whatever the material we have in front of us is suggesting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    It would have been awesome if the writers had put as much thought into it as you guys do.
    The laws of physics are not crying in a corner, they are bawling in the forums.

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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    Quote Originally Posted by Reddish Mage View Post
    Spoiler: some grounding
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    Despite constantly calling you out on this...somehow you have it in your head that stuff like real life energy requirements to do a feat that should somehow inform our analysis of these characters that can cause explosions that rival (or exceed) nuclear blasts by waiving their hands and rearrange continents.

    I honestly think you imagine there is a physics to superhero battles, as if with but minor tweaks to the laws of physics you could find these characters in the dimension next door...rather than getting there by putting our universe's laws in a blender and making some major mathematically nonsensical overhauls.

    Literally everything about a a human going at relativistic speeds on their own power is wrong. You can find YouTube videos about it. At those speeds even the air should pose enough resistance to splatter a person (much like hitting the water straight on at terminal velocity).

    Superstrength? Similar problems. Recently I noted the video about how just swinging around a big sword like Cloud's would require shoulders that can handle more torque than the fastest racing car in existence. Although strong, most big sword welders are not depicted as having Hulk like strength and not as having super durability. Durability of all the supporting bones muscles and ligaments needs to be magnified far more times than muscle power to make many basic super strength feats work (like the super jump, the superhero landing and the car toss).

    Real physics have long since left the building, we are going based on raw intuitions regarding how to interpret whatever the material we have in front of us is suggesting.
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    your right. such powers WOULD require such drastic changes.

    but, and here me out on this.

    -we can make these powers.
    -we can point out how these powers don't make sense with physics and acknowledge that
    -but unless we're willing to put in a lot of time, effort and brainpower into coming up with alternate physics to explain how it all works EXACTLY without any logical inconsistency....

    your point is irrelevant. its right but not relevant. the point of these worlds is to accept that yes these ridiculous things are exceptions, and that things are like reality except for that those designated parts where it isn't and we just have to accept that. thats just engaging honestly with the work. because if both the work and me acknowledge that this can't happen normally, that its an exception, we're good, we're on the same page.

    thats why I take an occam's razor perspective, because otherwise we'll have to be here all year hashing out a form of alternate physics that encompasses all forms of magic, superheroes, heroism, mad science and so on in all possible realities for me to be satisfied with any explanation that encompasses all possible things like that, and nobody has time for that. mostly because such a physics has to account for literal infinite possibility to explain the clash between all the possibles realities and heroes involved.

    so yes you can make that point, but unless you propose for me to start making that alternate physics to explain all possible realities of all fiction interacting with one another, I don't see what I'm supposed to do with that when its more efficient to just accept the exception and move on. there is just too much work involved.
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  22. - Top - End - #172
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    My point was, when you started talking about the energy requirements of relativistic super-speed, it didn't seem relevant to anything we were analyzing at the time or to explaining how to deal with these dodging feats we see in the shows where it looks like fast stuff is moving slowly and the character is actually shown moving fast enough to dodge.

    There's several ways: we can decide the fast stuff is actually slow moving, we can decide the character is moving really really fast, or that's what's being depicted is too much radical departure from the whole rest of the battle and should be discarded or narrowly applied to just incidents that exactly mirror what's going on.

    I don't see how talking about energy requirements motivates anything except to bring up...yes its really is impossible for anything resembling a human, and if characters had these powers they would theoretically need a lot of other, perhaps much more useful and impressive powers, just to support the feat you just saw.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reddish Mage View Post
    My point was, when you started talking about the energy requirements of relativistic super-speed, it didn't seem relevant to anything we were analyzing at the time or to explaining how to deal with these dodging feats we see in the shows where it looks like fast stuff is moving slowly and the character is actually shown moving fast enough to dodge.

    There's several ways: we can decide the fast stuff is actually slow moving, we can decide the character is moving really really fast, or that's what's being depicted is too much radical departure from the whole rest of the battle and should be discarded or narrowly applied to just incidents that exactly mirror what's going on.

    I don't see how talking about energy requirements motivates anything except to bring up...yes its really is impossible for anything resembling a human, and if characters had these powers they would theoretically need a lot of other, perhaps much more useful and impressive powers, just to support the feat you just saw.
    Well yeah.

    if fast stuff is moving slow and the character can dodge it.....the simplest explanation, is the thing isn't fast, and the character can dodge it.....because it isn't fast.

    the fact that whether or not super-speed relativistic might not be actually taking place seems really relevant, but okay I'll assume that once again everyone but me is right on the internet and just shut up because you seem be really convinced that I'm somehow off topic or doing something wrong and I'm not sure what it is the problem here, so I'll just....stop. and hope that you respect that I don't want to keep having this conversation because I don't even know what your on about?
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    Ok so I just got to watch the fight.
    Spoiler: This time
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    As soon as I saw ed get bullet time feats while aang got lightning feats I knew it was over. His durability gave me some hope as I dont recall any real durability feats for aang other than not dying when struck by lightning. But speed seems to be a deciding factor unless relative power/durability is too distant for it to matter.


    However
    Spoiler: next time
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    Seriously? This is actually an interesting fight. I admit to being shaky on both but one has fought gods and devils, the other has fought superman. One has an absurd healing ability, the other can basically burn out your soul. This could be fun.
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  25. - Top - End - #175
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

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    To no one's surprise, Aang wins. By a landslide. Because this was a horrible mismatch. Because, you took the most powerful character from one universe, and have them fight someone who is actually kinda mediocre in their own.


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    This one looks interesting. Ghost Rider is pretty ridiculous, but Lobo is insane.
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

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    Can Lobo regenerate from fire that's how enough to burn souls?

    And no, I'm not talking the Penance stare, I'm talking the actual Hellfire. At full blast Hellfire burns souls and you don't have to be capable of penance for raw hellfire to burn your sins so if Ghost Rider is going in for the Kill, well, he can burn both flesh and souls with a flame that can not only get to "soul burning" heat on it's own but gets hotter and hotter the more sins were commited by the soul it's burning and Lobo has killed billions.

    If Lobo can't regen from soul damage, then the deciding factor of the upcoming fight is if Ghost Rider can hit him with a sustained blast of Hellfire.

    Of course, this is Deathbattles we're talking about. There was a point in time where Lobo automatically adapted to magic spells so I could totally see DB having Lobo get hit by a teeny bit of Hellfire targetting only his body and using that to claim he adapted and would be immune to having his soul burned by full power Hellfire on the logic that Hellfire is magic.
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  27. - Top - End - #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
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    Can Lobo regenerate from fire that's how enough to burn souls?

    And no, I'm not talking the Penance stare, I'm talking the actual Hellfire. At full blast Hellfire burns souls and you don't have to be capable of penance for raw hellfire to burn your sins so if Ghost Rider is going in for the Kill, well, he can burn both flesh and souls with a flame that can not only get to "soul burning" heat on it's own but gets hotter and hotter the more sins were commited by the soul it's burning and Lobo has killed billions.

    If Lobo can't regen from soul damage, then the deciding factor of the upcoming fight is if Ghost Rider can hit him with a sustained blast of Hellfire.

    Of course, this is Deathbattles we're talking about. There was a point in time where Lobo automatically adapted to magic spells so I could totally see DB having Lobo get hit by a teeny bit of Hellfire targetting only his body and using that to claim he adapted and would be immune to having his soul burned by full power Hellfire on the logic that Hellfire is magic.
    The other option being,
    Spoiler
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    Ghost Rider once one shot Galactus, is lobo on par with the eater of worlds? No, therefore ghost rider wins. As they have been known to use transitive property comparisons before. Alternatively, I could see the penance stare going either way. It could floor him due to his rather sizable body count, or he could just dismiss its effects as has been known to happen from time to time.
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

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    The biggest issue I can see for Ghost Rider is that Lobo... can't really die. He did once, went to Hell, trashed the place, got kicked out. And, well, you can imagine why Heaven isn't an option for the guy.

    So even if Ghost Rider can take him down, he also needs to make sure he doesn't just come back.

    I do see this battle kind of in the Raiden vs. Wolverine kind of fight. Ghost Rider will be on the offense for most of the match. But the big question is if he has anything that can take Lobo down at all. Lobo can take most any hit, and he's likely immune to the Penance Stare since that requires you to feel guilt for your kills. That's why it worked on Galactus, he doesn't enjoy devouring worlds, but he has to.

    Lobo can wear Ghost Rider down over time. Ghost Rider needs to win decisively before that. It's going to be an interesting one, I think.

  29. - Top - End - #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by McNum View Post
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    The biggest issue I can see for Ghost Rider is that Lobo... can't really die. He did once, went to Hell, trashed the place, got kicked out. And, well, you can imagine why Heaven isn't an option for the guy.

    So even if Ghost Rider can take him down, he also needs to make sure he doesn't just come back.

    I do see this battle kind of in the Raiden vs. Wolverine kind of fight. Ghost Rider will be on the offense for most of the match. But the big question is if he has anything that can take Lobo down at all. Lobo can take most any hit, and he's likely immune to the Penance Stare since that requires you to feel guilt for your kills. That's why it worked on Galactus, he doesn't enjoy devouring worlds, but he has to.

    Lobo can wear Ghost Rider down over time. Ghost Rider needs to win decisively before that. It's going to be an interesting one, I think.
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    BEing immune to th ePenance Stare(which, incidentally, has onl happened in storylines where the author doesn't know how it's supposed to work, but whatevs) doesn't make you immune to having your soul directly incinerated with Hellfire.

    Hellfire at full blast burns both physical and spiritual matter with an intensity hotter than anything that is physically possible via non-mystical means(Hellfire has canonically burned the Human Torch's body.)
    Most Ghost Riders will their Hellfire to burn 'cold' so that it doesn't harm the physical body and only burns the evil parts of a soul, but if he's going for the Kill there comes the point where he's just gonna go for full matter-obliterating and soul-destroying intensity.

    The Spirits of Vengence are theoretically omnipotent within the specific parameters they occupy--Robbie Reyes is an amateur Ghost Rider but he's explicitly the most powerful of the current run of the Avengers(the most powerful incarnation of the Avengers, BTW,) by a very wide margin.

    It basically comes down to if Ghost Rider can hit Lobo with a big blast of Hellfire and then sustain the attack long enough to obliterate him.

    Which will be no, becuase this is Death Battle and Lobo is a Detective Comcis property.
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  30. - Top - End - #180
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    Default Re: Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Ok so I just got to watch the fight.
    Spoiler: This time
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    As soon as I saw ed get bullet time feats while aang got lightning feats I knew it was over. His durability gave me some hope as I dont recall any real durability feats for aang other than not dying when struck by lightning. But speed seems to be a deciding factor unless relative power/durability is too distant for it to matter.
    The actual analysis was
    Spoiler: Aang v Ed
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    Aang won due to the enormous power difference between what Ed could do and what Aang can do in the Avatar state.

    Speed was one of the contributing factors along with experience, since Aang has access to all the knowledge of all the Avatars in the Avatar state.

    They say Ed's intelligence kept him in the fight, however, unlike my pre-battle analysis, you see that Ed clearly exclaim "what sort of alchemy is this!?" which means that Aang confused Ed, who thought Aang was using some form of alchemy and simply couldn't figure out that Aang was using a totally different sort of discipline and so had different abilities and limitations.

    I actually feel they undersold Aang. Aang should have access to his adult level of skill and knowledge from the comics and Korra-flashbacks, since Ed was fighting at his height as well. The only chance Ed had at winning this was by intelligent fighting strategy and a surprise move. I think Ed had done so on occasion, and wanted him to do so here, but its been awhile and I'm guessing he doesn't come out with these surprise wins often enough to make that a fait accompli.



    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    However
    Spoiler: next time
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    Seriously? This is actually an interesting fight. I admit to being shaky on both but one has fought gods and devils, the other has fought superman. One has an absurd healing ability, the other can basically burn out your soul. This could be fun.
    Spoiler: next time
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    Agreed. They can do a lot of this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
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