OOTS #1168 - The Discussion Thread

[brian 333]

My introduction to wargaming was Avalon Hills Gettysburg. Until the Baton Rouge flood three years ago I still had Tactics II and Third Reich.

We started playing D and D as a small unit tactical game.

So, yeah, I am fine with adversarial games. I like to win, but I would rather lose to a better player than not play.

[Doctor West]

I'm not concerned about failure being an issue: I'm concerned about inter-player conflict potentially causing issues, issues that my socially-inept ass would be ill-equipped to deal with. I mean, I don't even like games that frame THE DM's role as primarily adversarial in nature: PVP? Forget about it.

This reminds me of my experiences in Japanese language P&P RPG communities. There's a great deal of aversion to intra-player conflict, even non-violent conflict, embedded in the culture, to the point people would avoid it even when I was deliberately trying to push characters with opposing philosophies towards each other.

Adversarial GMs, on the other hand... actually a friend in the Shadowrun group I've been hanging out in for years has been complaining about his Pathfinder DM being adversarial and metagaming with their enemies.

[canpinter]

So I don't know if this has been pointed out but the specific instructions given to the dominated clan head was " Vote yes on the main proposal and follow any verbal instructions given to you by a vampire".

So if the good guys manage to keep the vampire from talking this could all be solved by Dvalin asking the question in the right way. Like "should i vote to not blow up the world".

[Rrmcklin]

So I don't know if this has been pointed out but the specific instructions given to the dominated clan head was " Vote yes on the main proposal and follow any verbal instructions given to you by a vampire".

So if the good guys manage to keep the vampire from talking this could all be solved by Dvalin asking the question in the right way. Like "should i vote to not blow up the world".

They would have to use force to keep her from speaking, and attacking anyone is strictly forbidden.

[Squire Doodad]

They would have to use force to keep her from speaking, and attacking anyone is strictly forbidden.

They could just distract her while everyone else is voting. Vampires can in fact be distracted like anyone else, and quite easily! If you attack someone from outside and it hits inside the barrier, does it still turn you to stone...?

It'd work, it's just not going to be what will happen.

[Peelee]

They would have to use force to keep her from speaking, and attacking anyone is strictly forbidden.

You forget the most powerful force of all - the filibuster.

[Squire Doodad]

You forget the most powerful force of all - the filibuster.

Not to be confused with the Phylabuster. I'm not sure how it affects the entire field of Taxonomy, but we should just be glad there's no Chordata setting.

[ijuinkun]

You forget the most powerful force of all - the filibuster.

Filibustering only works when a supermajority is required in order to proceed. If the rules require only a simple majority, then it is not a useful tactic.

[Peelee]

Filibustering only works when a supermajority is required in order to proceed. If the rules require only a simple majority, then it is not a useful tactic.

Hank Hill disagrees.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Simplest solution is to pester and annoy the vampire during the endless position speeches that she loses her temper and does something to break the rules, resulting in her being petrified. Then you swing to a reworded question that makes the dominated councilors work for you. Of course, nobody else knows what the terms of their orders are, so you can't game that. And again, it means that the title characters are about as relevant as teats on a boar.

[brian 333]

I am betting that Durkon knows the rules and uses them to his advantage rather than finding a workaround.

The workaround will be Hilgyas solution.

[The MunchKING]

So if the good guys manage to keep the vampire from talking this could all be solved by Dvalin asking the question in the right way. Like "should i vote to not blow up the world".

I don't think you need verbal instructions to change your orders on a Dominated victim.

Right. It's telepathic. So if they stopped her from talking in a way that left her able to think, she could change the orders for anyone she had personally dominated. The Sandy-haired one and the Etrarch would have to be made aware of it before they could change up the orders on the ones they dominated though.

[Grey Watcher]

I don't think you need verbal instructions to change your orders on a Dominated victim.

Right. It's telepathic. So if they stopped her from talking in a way that left her able to think, she could change the orders for anyone she had personally dominated. The Sandy-haired one and the Etrarch would have to be made aware of it before they could change up the orders on the ones they dominated though.

Given the emphasis they put on the fact that talking to Elders to give them new orders wouldn't violate the rules, I wonder if telepathic contact via a domination effect might actually be something the builders of this place took into account (and didn't as they Ex-Arch speculated, leave available as a backdoor for themselves).

[Fyraltari]

Given the emphasis they put on the fact that talking to Elders to give them new orders wouldn't violate the rules, I wonder if telepathic contact via a domination effect might actually be something the builders of this place took into account (and didn't as they Ex-Arch speculated, leave available as a backdoor for themselves).

No, I think this is just covering their bases, this allows any vampire to give order to any Elder, just in case rthater than requiring the right vampire for the right dwarf.

[KorvinStarmast]

Given the source that Zimmerwald quotes says he flunked the botany, linguistics, and zoology portions of the exam, definitely not. And the less said about his tactical knowledge when contrasted with that of a woman entering a religious order, the better.

I'll get you a cup of cofee at the commisariat. But only if you ever sat agee.

This reminds me of my experiences in Japanese language P&P RPG communities.

Do you like Golden Sky Stories? I played it a few months ago and really enjoyed it.

My introduction to wargaming was Avalon Hills Gettysburg. Until the Baton Rouge flood three years ago I still had Tactics II and Third Reich.

I think I still have my copy of Tactic II somewhere. Need to check the attic. Have Waterloo and D Day still on the shelf.
We started playing D&D partly because in our group, getting all seven of us to play at one time was hard with the games we had.
(And we played 1914 once, the three people on the german side and 4 people on the allied side, and that game took weeks to complete. )

[Squire Doodad]

(And we played 1914 once, the three people on the german side and 4 people on the allied side, and that game took weeks to complete. )

The first time that game was played, it was publicized and lots more people were playing and it took a lot longer

[Doctor West]

Do you like Golden Sky Stories? I played it a few months ago and really enjoyed it.

Never had a chance to play it, but I like the idea a lot.