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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Default Re: MTG Share your Card Designs II

    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
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    I think this would be better as two separate cards, or an either/or effect. Making them skip their untap and getting to untap twice is pretty close to "take two extra turns" which is too powerful for 4 mana.
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    Default Re: MTG Share your Card Designs II

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    I think this would be better as two separate cards, or an either/or effect. Making them skip their untap and getting to untap twice is pretty close to "take two extra turns" which is too powerful for 4 mana.
    Either or with entwine?
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    Default Re: MTG Share your Card Designs II

    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    Either or with entwine?
    I think that could work, depends on how much the entwine costs. Time Stretch is 10 mana and a sorcery, so I think this could be 8 off an entwine and be safe.
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    Default Re: MTG Share your Card Designs II

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    By skipping a turn, yes.
    You're not skipping a turn, you are skipping a single mana the turn you play it. It is equivalent to a one mana mana rock that enters tapped and taps for C, except it requires a card less. The base for mana rocks is costing 2 mana, so costing half is a massive boon.

    The depletion lands aren't particularly good and having colored mana makes them roughly comparable
    Can you link me what you think depletion lands are? Because I googled them and I have no idea where you see any similarities.

    the real sol lands are far better but require having a lot of good colorless or 1 mana color cards to be good.
    Yes, and that is easy, so they are good. Turn two Show and Tell is good in legacy. Turn 2 Bloodmoon is good in modern, even if it turns this land off afterwards.

    In a set that doesn't have a high artifact or eldrazi focus it is going to be a decent but not OP land for limited and standard,
    It ramps without card investment, that is going to be good in both of those formats. Having 3 mana turn 2 or 4 mana turn 3 are both really good.

    and it won't see play in Modern
    Eldrazi monument is the only Sol land in Modern. It doesn't matter if it is worse than Ancient Tomb, sol lands are really powerful.
    Amulet of Vigor is also a card.

    Set in a Ravnica set and it would be outright detrimental, fixing no mana at all.
    Yes, because no Ravnica cards cost colorless right? And Ravnica sets haven't included common cards that could filter mana.


    It's not that the card definitely would be broken, but that it's a card that would be quite dangerous, and you seem to insist it would be no issue at all.
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  5. - Top - End - #155
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    Default Re: MTG Share your Card Designs II

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjaman View Post
    You're not skipping a turn, you are skipping a single mana the turn you play it. It is equivalent to a one mana mana rock that enters tapped and taps for C, except it requires a card less. The base for mana rocks is costing 2 mana, so costing half is a massive boon.


    Can you link me what you think depletion lands are? Because I googled them and I have no idea where you see any similarities.


    Yes, and that is easy, so they are good. Turn two Show and Tell is good in legacy. Turn 2 Bloodmoon is good in modern, even if it turns this land off afterwards.


    It ramps without card investment, that is going to be good in both of those formats. Having 3 mana turn 2 or 4 mana turn 3 are both really good.


    Eldrazi monument is the only Sol land in Modern. It doesn't matter if it is worse than Ancient Tomb, sol lands are really powerful.
    Amulet of Vigor is also a card.


    Yes, because no Ravnica cards cost colorless right? And Ravnica sets haven't included common cards that could filter mana.


    It's not that the card definitely would be broken, but that it's a card that would be quite dangerous, and you seem to insist it would be no issue at all.
    Depletion lands were from mercadian masques. They are identical except they die after being used twice, and they tap for colored mana. I used them as an example because as commons they see no play in pauper, even in decks that want free ramp.

    Stompy decks in Legacy were pretty poor until quite recently. Dragonstompy only started putting up consistent results with the introduction of Goblin Rabblemaster, Hazoret and Good Chandra. Eldrazi stompy runs 4 sets of sol lands, but efforts to make shops work in legacy have been atrocious from the beginning.

    Because what broke sol lands was pushed creatures, they were just okay until WotC decided creatures should be massive value engines. Goblin Rabblemaster should cost 1RR at least, the midrange Eldrazi shouldn't even exist. Another example of that is Magic 96, where Mishra's Workshop barely sees play because you are ramping into Suichi and Juggernaut.
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    Default Re: MTG Share your Card Designs II

    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
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    You probably want to state what steps/phases can be stolen, as funky things probably happen if you steal someone’s clean up step.
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    Default Re: MTG Share your Card Designs II

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    Depletion lands were from mercadian masques. They are identical except they die after being used twice, and they tap for colored mana. I used them as an example because as commons they see no play in pauper, even in decks that want free ramp.
    Fair, I was looking at the ice age depletion lands.
    I can see the comparison but:
    1. Staying in play for more than two turns mean something.
    2. They aren't modern legal and pauper is a bad place for this type of effect since all their best cards cost 1 or 2 mana, where they allow a lot more things in modern.
    3. They did see play in storm decks before those got banned.

    Stompy decks in Legacy were pretty poor until quite recently. Dragonstompy only started putting up consistent results with the introduction of Goblin Rabblemaster, Hazoret and Good Chandra. Eldrazi stompy runs 4 sets of sol lands, but efforts to make shops work in legacy have been atrocious from the beginning.
    The fact that support was lacking until recently does not mean sol lands aren't busted. And they've seen play in Show and Tell from that deck's inception back when the original Emrakul came out.

    Because what broke sol lands was pushed creatures, they were just okay until WotC decided creatures should be massive value engines. Goblin Rabblemaster should cost 1RR at least, the midrange Eldrazi shouldn't even exist. Another example of that is Magic 96, where Mishra's Workshop barely sees play because you are ramping into Suichi and Juggernaut.
    If you think Goblin Rabblemaster is the broken out of those two cards, I don't know what to tell you, other than you are wrong.
    That is like saying Reanimate is a balanced card because creatures are supposed to be Serra Angel.
    It's like the deal with Birthing Pod, you can either keep banning the new tools that come out, or you can acknowledge that the engine is a problem and axe that. Rabblemaster is not the problem, Ancient Tomb is.
    Midrange eldrazi aren't even a problem in modern anymore after they went down to 4 sol lands, so clearly the land was the problem.
    Workshop has been the best deck in vintage since Trinisphere broke tournaments and subsequently got banned back in 2005.
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  8. - Top - End - #158
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    Default Re: MTG Share your Card Designs II

    Quote Originally Posted by Androgeus View Post
    You probably want to state what steps/phases can be stolen, as funky things probably happen if you steal someone’s clean up step.
    That's half the fun of messing with time.
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    Default Re: MTG Share your Card Designs II

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjaman View Post
    Fair, I was looking at the ice age depletion lands.
    I can see the comparison but:
    1. Staying in play for more than two turns mean something.
    2. They aren't modern legal and pauper is a bad place for this type of effect since all their best cards cost 1 or 2 mana, where they allow a lot more things in modern.
    3. They did see play in storm decks before those got banned.


    The fact that support was lacking until recently does not mean sol lands aren't busted. And they've seen play in Show and Tell from that deck's inception back when the original Emrakul came out.


    If you think Goblin Rabblemaster is the broken out of those two cards, I don't know what to tell you, other than you are wrong.
    That is like saying Reanimate is a balanced card because creatures are supposed to be Serra Angel.
    It's like the deal with Birthing Pod, you can either keep banning the new tools that come out, or you can acknowledge that the engine is a problem and axe that. Rabblemaster is not the problem, Ancient Tomb is.
    Midrange eldrazi aren't even a problem in modern anymore after they went down to 4 sol lands, so clearly the land was the problem.
    Workshop has been the best deck in vintage since Trinisphere broke tournaments and subsequently got banned back in 2005.
    I think it is obvious we fundamentally look at the game differently. You are using Emrakul, Griselbrand and storm to argue that their enablers are the problem, and not two cards that got banned in EDH and a mechanic that ate three bans in modern to keep safe.

    So I'm going to just agree to disagree here.
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    Default Re: MTG Share your Card Designs II

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    You are using Emrakul, Griselbrand
    Griselbrand and Emrakul were not problems in their standard environments. Yes the cards themselves are busted, but so are their enablers.

    storm to argue that their enablers are the problem,
    The only place I mentioned storm was when you said the depletion lands saw no play in pauper, but thanks for the massive straw man of my argument.

    and not two cards that got banned in EDH
    Banned in EDH doesn't say that much about their power level in other formats.

    You are also completely ignoring the glaring point that both the payoff and the enabler are troublesome, and that is why it is that abusive.
    Let's not pretend Omnishow decks don't exist.
    It's also like saying Workshop isn't broken because Trinisphere/Chalice/Thorn of Amatyst/Lodestone Golem were the cards that got banned. Clearly it's not the enabler that is the problem even though it is only Chalice that sees play in modern where all the cards are legal.

    And let's not get into the argument that power 9, the most powerful cards in all of magic, are almost exclusively enablers.
    Last edited by Ninjaman; 2019-09-05 at 05:15 PM.
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  11. - Top - End - #161
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    Default Re: MTG Share your Card Designs II

    Quote Originally Posted by Androgeus View Post
    You probably want to state what steps/phases can be stolen, as funky things probably happen if you steal someone’s clean up step.
    How does the game deal with the cleanup step with "end the turn" spells?

    Thinking on it, I do think the spell should be red rather then Blue/Black. Red has extra turn effects and end turn effects, blue might be included but I don't see a black connection.
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    Default Re: MTG Share your Card Designs II

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    How does the game deal with the cleanup step with "end the turn" spells?
    After exiling everything from the stack, you end the current step/phase and skip everything up to the next clean up step and proceed as normal from there.

    Thinking on it, I do think the spell should be red rather then Blue/Black. Red has extra turn effects and end turn effects, blue might be included but I don't see a black connection.
    Red only has extra turn effects with lose the game riders. Red is however the colour of additional combat steps. Blue is the colour of skipping stuff (see Fatespinner). Blue, I think, has the only non combat oriented extra step card (Paradox Haze). It would definitely be a bend to have a mono blue card give more combat steps so I feel something like 1UURR would be right.
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    Default Re: MTG Share your Card Designs II

    Quote Originally Posted by Androgeus View Post
    After exiling everything from the stack, you end the current step/phase and skip everything up to the next clean up step and proceed as normal from there.



    Red only has extra turn effects with lose the game riders. Red is however the colour of additional combat steps. Blue is the colour of skipping stuff (see Fatespinner). Blue, I think, has the only non combat oriented extra step card (Paradox Haze). It would definitely be a bend to have a mono blue card give more combat steps so I feel something like 1UURR would be right.
    I feel like taking extra stuff probably should have been mono-red, instead of just giving blue 90% of all effects. Blue gets counters, taking control of things, extra turns, cantrips, etc. Red is getting better, but extra turns could have been red from the beginning.
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    Default Re: MTG Share your Card Designs II

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    I feel like taking extra stuff probably should have been mono-red, instead of just giving blue 90% of all effects. Blue gets counters, taking control of things, extra turns, cantrips, etc. Red is getting better, but extra turns could have been red from the beginning.
    But it's not. You generally design with how the color pie is, not how you want it to be.
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    Default Re: MTG Share your Card Designs II

    No U (Cost 1 blue phyrexian mana)
    Instant
    Change the target of target spell or ability an opponent controls that targets you to target them instead unless they pay (1 blue phyrexian mana).
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    Default Re: MTG Share your Card Designs II

    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    No U (Cost 1 blue phyrexian mana)
    Instant
    Change the target of target spell or ability an opponent controls that targets you to target them instead unless they pay (1 blue phyrexian mana).
    This seems quite worthless.
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    Default Re: MTG Share your Card Designs II

    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    No U (Cost 1 blue phyrexian mana)
    Instant
    Change the target of target spell or ability an opponent controls that targets you to target them instead unless they pay (1 blue phyrexian mana).
    Seems really weak, like a worse shock. Spend 2 life and a card to make your opponent spend two life is bad.
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    Default Re: MTG Share your Card Designs II

    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    No U (Cost 1 blue phyrexian mana)
    Instant
    Change the target of target spell or ability an opponent controls that targets you to target them instead unless they pay (1 blue phyrexian mana).
    I'd make this cantrip at the very least. Also, I'd say the spell feels a lot more red than blue in practice. Something along the lines off:

    Emphatic Denial R (cost 1 red phyrexian mana)
    Instant
    Deal 2 damage to the owner of target spell
    draw a card

    Would in practice play pretty much the same, but would be more in-color and might maybe be worth playing.
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    Default Re: MTG Share your Card Designs II

    Quote Originally Posted by DeTess View Post
    I'd make this cantrip at the very least. Also, I'd say the spell feels a lot more red than blue in practice. Something along the lines off:

    Emphatic Denial R (cost 1 red phyrexian mana)
    Instant
    Deal 2 damage to the owner of target spell
    draw a card

    Would in practice play pretty much the same, but would be more in-color and might maybe be worth playing.
    2 damage to a player and draw a card is already a very good card, compare to lava spike.

    Making it phyrexian mana is just way too much. You're aware Gitaxian Probe got banned, right?
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    Default Re: MTG Share your Card Designs II

    Quote Originally Posted by DeTess View Post
    I'd make this cantrip at the very least. Also, I'd say the spell feels a lot more red than blue in practice. Something along the lines off:

    Emphatic Denial R (cost 1 red phyrexian mana)
    Instant
    Deal 2 damage to the owner of target spell
    draw a card

    Would in practice play pretty much the same, but would be more in-color and might maybe be worth playing.
    I think cantripping is too much. What if it was "if this is negated you may put it back on top of your library." Bad shock isn't great, but bad shock every turn can be decent.
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    Default Re: MTG Share your Card Designs II

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    I think cantripping is too much. What if it was "if this is negated you may put it back on top of your library." Bad shock isn't great, but bad shock every turn can be decent.
    What does negated mean?
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    Default Re: MTG Share your Card Designs II

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjaman View Post
    What does negated mean?
    Probably 'countered'. And yeah, I thought Gitaxian probe did more than it did (I thought it was a discard, rather than just a 'look at hand'), so this would need to be toned down some.
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    Default Re: MTG Share your Card Designs II

    Quote Originally Posted by DeTess View Post
    Probably 'countered'. And yeah, I thought Gitaxian probe did more than it did (I thought it was a discard, rather than just a 'look at hand'), so this would need to be toned down some.
    He didn't put countered into the card, just unless so I was keeping it vague to match.

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    Default Re: MTG Share your Card Designs II

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    He didn't put countered into the card, just unless so I was keeping it vague to match.
    Why would it say counter when it has nothing to do with counter?
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    Default Re: MTG Share your Card Designs II

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjaman View Post
    Why would it say counter when it has nothing to do with counter?
    The spell says "redirect this unless the opponent pays 2 life or U" so I said negated in refernce to them "paying 2 life or U." The card isn't worded quite right, but I didn't feel like rewording his card because we were still talking about the content.

    So my suggestion is basically "redirect target spell that targets you. Your opponent my pay 2 life or U. If they do put this on top of your library instead."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    The spell says "redirect this unless the opponent pays 2 life or U" so I said negated in refernce to them "paying 2 life or U." The card isn't worded quite right, but I didn't feel like rewording his card because we were still talking about the content.

    So my suggestion is basically "redirect target spell that targets you. Your opponent my pay 2 life or U. If they do put this on top of your library instead."
    I think the wording you want is something along the lines off "Change the target of target spell or ability an opponent controls that targets you to target them instead unless they pay (1 blue phyrexian mana). If they do, put this card on the top of your library." as 'negated' implies the spell was somehow prevented from doing its thing, but if your opponent just decides to pay, the spell has still achieved its effect.
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    Default Re: MTG Share your Card Designs II

    Quote Originally Posted by DeTess View Post
    I think the wording you want is something along the lines off "Change the target of target spell or ability an opponent controls that targets you to target them instead unless they pay (1 blue phyrexian mana). If they do, put this card on the top of your library." as 'negated' implies the spell was somehow prevented from doing its thing, but if your opponent just decides to pay, the spell has still achieved its effect.
    Good point. I would make it "you may put it on top" or it could ruin you against blue decks.

    Assuming that wording works, I think that shocking once a turn is a fair card. It isn't overpowered but also not worthless. It has one really strong interaction that I know of, which is to guarantee a 1 cmc on top if your library. So pretty good in counterbalance decks.
    Last edited by Tvtyrant; 2019-09-09 at 04:43 PM.

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    Default Re: MTG Share your Card Designs II

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    Good point. I would make it "you may put it on top" or it could ruin you against blue decks.

    Assuming that wording works, I think that shocking once a turn is a fair card. It isn't overpowered but also not worthless. It has one really strong interaction that I know of, which is to guarantee a 1 cmc on top if your library. So pretty good in counterbalance decks.
    Except it doesn't, because it requires that your opponent has a target every turn. Your opponent is not going to play a card that targets you every turn. What's even worse about the design is that many cards say target opponent, meaning this card won't be usable on half the cards you want to use it on.
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    Default Re: MTG Share your Card Designs II

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    It probably doesn't need the end-step abilities, now that I think about it.
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    Default Re: MTG Share your Card Designs II

    Quote Originally Posted by enderlord99 View Post
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    It probably doesn't need the end-step abilities, now that I think about it.
    I get Monarch and City's Blessing are both kind of things you can have in the game, but I don't see how having at some point in the game having controlled a desert ties in to that.

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    Acuphagia 1B
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    Artifacts you control are Food in addition to their other types and gain "{2}, {T}, Sacrifice this permanent: You gain 3 life"


    Was going to make it red at first but then realised shouldn't really be giving red life gain.
    Last edited by Androgeus; 2019-09-12 at 05:38 AM.
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