The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Default Re: General Anime/Manga Discussion 16: In Another Thread With My Smartphone

    Quote Originally Posted by ellenate View Post
    By "bad", do you mean overly sexual?

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    in regards to anime, i don't think that's a really big sin
    I mean a lot of the lady designs are really awkward and gangly and in-human, and even the ones I like are like "Hm, this is kinda bad".

    I don't mind sexual elements in design but compare a lot of the female characters to the men and you start to see some issues. I haven't seen the anime yet so I don't know how it comes off.


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  2. - Top - End - #152
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    Default Re: General Anime/Manga Discussion 16: In Another Thread With My Smartphone

    Honestly Following any anime or manga means constantly asking yourself if reading the story is really worth how often you see the mangaka being "horny on main" as the kids say.

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  3. - Top - End - #153
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    Default Re: General Anime/Manga Discussion 16: In Another Thread With My Smartphone

    Quote Originally Posted by John Cribati View Post
    Honestly Following any anime or manga means constantly asking yourself if reading the story is really worth how often you see the mangaka being "horny on main" as the kids say.
    True but you can have horny designs that are still well thought out.


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  4. - Top - End - #154
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    Default Re: General Anime/Manga Discussion 16: In Another Thread With My Smartphone

    DanMachi S2 episode 1

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    Man. I never really liked Hermes, but props to him for playing matchmaker. I don't know who Bell actually likes, since he seems to see Ais as more of a challenge, but props to Hermes for pushing him forward.

    Aollo though, he can suck a fat one. Kid was clearly faking it, and he's the one who started everything.

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    Default Re: General Anime/Manga Discussion 16: In Another Thread With My Smartphone

    It looks like Netflix has licensed Angel Beats! again, including the English dub. I remember them having the license several years ago, and Netflix remembers the last episode I watched on their platform when it was licensed previously.
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    where is the atropal? and does it have a listed LA?

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    Default Re: General Anime/Manga Discussion 16: In Another Thread With My Smartphone

    Quote Originally Posted by gomipile View Post
    It looks like Netflix has licensed Angel Beats! again, including the English dub. I remember them having the license several years ago, and Netflix remembers the last episode I watched on their platform when it was licensed previously.
    Yup, finally, along with AnoHana, after I already watched them elsewhere. AnoHana is a must, the emotion hype is real.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendulous View Post
    Yup, finally, along with AnoHana, after I already watched them elsewhere. AnoHana is a must, the emotion hype is real.
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    The fact that he could've easily proven she was real, from the jump, distracted me for most of the show...


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    Default Re: General Anime/Manga Discussion 16: In Another Thread With My Smartphone

    I don't really understand the emotional impact of either of those shows. Or rather, I don't connect with them myself. I experience them as high school melodrama. But I imagine it feels the way I feel about Haibane Renmei.

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    Default Re: General Anime/Manga Discussion 16: In Another Thread With My Smartphone

    Angel beats didn't have all that much emotional impact (beyond the base lvl of its topic) but had entertaining parts. Anohana I never finished so maybe it would have had on later.

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    Default Re: General Anime/Manga Discussion 16: In Another Thread With My Smartphone

    Man, I've been a little middling on the Vinland Saga adaptation, largely because I have such a love of the manga, but episode 5 really brought things home.
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    I felt like Thors' death was a little underwhelming emotionally, but here was all of the slow-burn emotional fallout, and I loved it. The show keeps reminding me that it's very deliberately-paced with the intention of getting me to stop and take in everything, and it's starting to work its magic. I should probably find someone to show it to once the season finishes, just so I can take it in more than one episode at a time.

    Ylva was the highlight, of course, just this amazing moment of being able to tell that she was pouring herself into physical labor to fight off the slow wave of crushing grief, and I loved that we cut away after it started flowing out. There's a slow-burn amount of restraint in this show, and it's very good. There's these little moments, like Thorfinn laughing in the middle of a drink out of the stream, with tears in his eyes as he stops. Subtle touches, not pushing things at all. Just reminding you of what's going on with these characters.

    I am so for this.
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    Default Re: General Anime/Manga Discussion 16: In Another Thread With My Smartphone

    Watched the last three episodes of Madoka...

    Homura is best, seriously.

    Also, I deeply approve of Madoka's "screw the universe, I make new rules." But maybe she didn't go quite far enough...

    Yeah, I NEED to watch the movie proper-like now. Annoyingly, Netflix doesn't have that, so I might even have to track that down on DVD or something.




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    Default Re: General Anime/Manga Discussion 16: In Another Thread With My Smartphone

    Quote Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander View Post
    Watched the last three episodes of Madoka...

    Homura is best, seriously.

    Also, I deeply approve of Madoka's "screw the universe, I make new rules." But maybe she didn't go quite far enough...

    Yeah, I NEED to watch the movie proper-like now. Annoyingly, Netflix doesn't have that, so I might even have to track that down on DVD or something.

    And, obviously, [EXPLETIVE] YOU, Bunny-cat, you and all your kind.
    Madoka's wish literally makes her an actual god of hope, the living embodiment of "things will be okay" and all the magical girls go to her house when they die for tea. There's very little else she could have done to make this better.

    Do not watch the movie is tears down all of this and is stupid.

    In manga news today: The creator of Assassination Classroom and Brain Eating Detective Nougami Neuro, two of my favorite mangas, released a one shot called F-Kendo. Short for "Fetish Kendo".

    It is very much a series like he'd make. I'll kinda just leave that thought there for the time being.
    Last edited by LaZodiac; 2019-08-06 at 12:23 PM.


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    Default Re: General Anime/Manga Discussion 16: In Another Thread With My Smartphone

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    Madoka's wish literally makes her an actual god of hope, the living embodiment of "things will be okay" and all the magical girls go to her house when they die for tea. There's very little else she could have done to make this better.

    Do not watch the movie is tears down all of this and is stupid.
    No way, the movie is the BEST PART.

    When I watched SFDebris's review?

    When I got to the part - you know what I mean - I had to pause the video for literally several minutes because I was laughing, clapping and whooping SO HARD.

    That? There? A moment in a video review, which never quite holds as much in isolation as in full context?

    That was still enough to make Homura the Best.

    I don't even remember how it ended after that, I was too busy absolutely killing myself.

    Homura bending reality over and shivving it in the internal organs because she wasn't having any of it's crap won my instant approval more than anything else - or pretty much anything else ever COULD.

    (Heck the main reason Jubilee and Catherine Foundling are still at and lurking below the Best Character Ever pedastal is that I technically haven't seen it all proper-like yet.)

    Hell, if someone did for me what Homura did for Madoka, I might even seriously consider giving them some interest (some context depending), that's how impressed and delighted I was.
    Last edited by Aotrs Commander; 2019-08-06 at 12:58 PM.

  14. - Top - End - #164
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    Default Re: General Anime/Manga Discussion 16: In Another Thread With My Smartphone

    Quote Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander View Post
    No way, the movie is the BEST PART.

    When I watched SFDebris's review?

    When I got to the part - you know what I mean - I had to pause the video for literally several minutes because I was laughing, clapping and whooping SO HARD.

    That? There? A moment in a video review, which never quite holds as much in isolation as in full context?

    That was still enough to make Homura the Best.

    I don't even remember how it ended after that, I was too busy absolutely killing myself.

    Homura bending reality over and shivving it in the internal organs because she wasn't having any of it's crap won my instant approval more than anything else - or pretty much anything else ever COULD.

    (Heck the main reason Jubilee and Catherine Foundling are still at and lurking below the Best Character Ever pedastal is that I technically haven't seen it all proper-like yet.)

    Hell, if someone did for me what Homura did for Madoka, I might even seriously consider giving them some interest (some context depending), that's how impressed and delighted I was.
    I didn't actually know SF Debris did Rebellion. I kinda want to give that a look, but am also like "Rebellion sounds like the worst **** imaginable I don't even wanna touch it".


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    Default Re: General Anime/Manga Discussion 16: In Another Thread With My Smartphone

    Quote Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander View Post
    No way, the movie is the BEST PART.
    yeah the movie just reinforces everything the anime was about... (I don't see how anyone who liked the show couldn't also like the movie.)


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    Default Re: General Anime/Manga Discussion 16: In Another Thread With My Smartphone

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    I didn't actually know SF Debris did Rebellion. I kinda want to give that a look, but am also like "Rebellion sounds like the worst **** imaginable I don't even wanna touch it".
    Yeah, it's in the films section of the anime, not with the reviews of the series, so it'd be easy to miss.

    I mean, it might be worth a watch of the review - I mean, I wouldn't have touched the series from reputation if I hadn't watched SFDebris so...?

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    Default Re: General Anime/Manga Discussion 16: In Another Thread With My Smartphone

    Quote Originally Posted by ellenate View Post
    yeah the movie just reinforces everything the anime was about... (I don't see how anyone who liked the show couldn't also like the movie.)
    Spoiler: Madoka Rebellion spoilers
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    The incubator's trying to find a way to return to the Witch timeline makes no sense, and is completely counter to the fact that Madoka is literally the godly embodiment of hope. Homura eventually falling into despair is an inherently stupid premise, and he becoming some sort of evil sexy queen type is stupid as hell. On a personal level, Homura's witch not being Walpurgisnacht is also just really dumb of them to have done. Charlotte getting a human form is interesting, but her character is very one note.

    Also, just the general idea of having Madoka fight, in a fight, for real seems counter to the series entire thesis. Rebellion feels like a dumb cash grab to tie into the ****ty phone game at best.


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    Default Re: General Anime/Manga Discussion 16: In Another Thread With My Smartphone

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    Spoiler: Madoka Rebellion spoilers
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    The incubator's trying to find a way to return to the Witch timeline makes no sense, and is completely counter to the fact that Madoka is literally the godly embodiment of hope. Homura eventually falling into despair is an inherently stupid premise, and he becoming some sort of evil sexy queen type is stupid as hell. On a personal level, Homura's witch not being Walpurgisnacht is also just really dumb of them to have done. Charlotte getting a human form is interesting, but her character is very one note.

    Also, just the general idea of having Madoka fight, in a fight, for real seems counter to the series entire thesis. Rebellion feels like a dumb cash grab to tie into the ****ty phone game at best.
    Spoiler: Rebellion
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    In order:

    The incubators want to restore the old system because they believe it produces more energy. They don't give a flying f*** about hope, so their actions don't run counter to Madoka being the embodiment of hope.

    There's nothing inherently stupid about Homura falling into despair - she's suffered more than anyone else in the story, after all.

    Walpurgisnacht never was or needed to be Homura.

    Madoka fights in multiple loops in Homura's episode of the TV series, so Madoka fighting is not counter to the series' thesis (or the series already contradicts its own thesis).

    And whatever one's opinion of Rebellion's story, it certainly isn't a s***ty cash grab. Cash grabs are low-effort, low-risk endeavors that try to avoid alienating their customers with anything new. Rebellion is the opposite of that.
    Last edited by Lethologica; 2019-08-06 at 05:17 PM.

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    Default Re: General Anime/Manga Discussion 16: In Another Thread With My Smartphone

    Quote Originally Posted by Lethologica View Post
    Spoiler: Rebellion
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    In order:

    The incubators want to restore the old system because they believe it produces more energy. They don't give a flying f*** about hope, so their actions don't run counter to Madoka being the embodiment of hope.

    There's nothing inherently stupid about Homura falling into despair - she's suffered more than anyone else in the story, after all.

    Walpurgisnacht never was or needed to be Homura.

    Madoka fights in multiple loops in Homura's episode of the TV series, so Madoka fighting is not counter to the series' thesis (or the series already contradicts its own thesis).

    And whatever one's opinion of Rebellion's story, it certainly isn't a s***ty cash grab. Cash grabs are low-effort, low-risk endeavors that try to avoid alienating their customers with anything new. Rebellion is the opposite of that.
    Spoiler: Rebellion
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    I'm saying that Madoka being a magical god of hope would counter any attempts to **** up the time stream. I'm not saying they care about hope, I'm saying that the instant they try to make things bad for magical girls Madoka would politely shoo them away.

    Homura should not fall to despair because she won. She succeeded where every other magica girl failed and she knows that when she dies, she'll be with Madoka again. Also, importantly, this is ignoring the fact that the other half of this complaint was that they dress her up like some erotic lolita bull**** character and I hate it.

    It didn't need to be, and I'm fine with Walpurgisnacht not being her, but there's so much weight behind the theory that I think 100% deconfirming it takes away from the coolness of it.

    Madoka fighting is bad. Madoka being shown fighting isn't inherently bad, because the idea is to show that every time she fights something terrible happens because she should not fight. Madoka's entire realization is that she needs to come up with an actual wish that will solve things instead of just becoming another cog in the Incubator's machine. Having that get retreaded just feels wrong after the conclusion.

    You can put quality work into a ****ty cash crab. Given the designs and what it led to (Madoka Magica phone game gachapon with a bunch of stupid, badly designed magical girls to attract lolita obsessed nerd-idiots) I can say Rebellion is absolutely a cash grab. It was not intended and never intended, Madoka Magica is a self contained story that has no need for a sequel. It is a needless movie, and even if it does "new and interesting things" it's still an unneeded money-grab to tie in to the phone game. Now, if you want to say my term use is wrong that's fine, I'll relent I don't really care because my point still matters. Call it a cash grab, call it needless and unintended, none of this changes the fact that a lot of the things in that film is aimed towards people who wouldn't like Madoka Magica.


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    Default Re: General Anime/Manga Discussion 16: In Another Thread With My Smartphone

    Quote Originally Posted by ellenate View Post
    yeah the movie just reinforces everything the anime was about... (I don't see how anyone who liked the show couldn't also like the movie.)
    Pretty much everyone I know whose ability to perform media analysis I actually trust came out of Rebellion thinking it was some combination of stupid, bad, and strictly opposite theme-wise to the series.

    And well. Honestly, Urobuchi ends up ****ing up everything he does eventually, so I am thoroughly unsurprised he'd manage to screw this one too. I'm genuinely surprised something as good as Madoka came out of the man as is!
    Last edited by Drascin; 2019-08-06 at 05:50 PM.

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    Default Re: General Anime/Manga Discussion 16: In Another Thread With My Smartphone

    Quote Originally Posted by Drascin View Post
    Pretty much everyone I know whose ability to perform media analysis I actually trust came out of Rebellion thinking it was some combination of stupid, bad, and strictly opposite theme-wise to the series.

    And well. Honestly, Urobuchi ends up ****ing up everything he does eventually, so I am thoroughly unsurprised he'd manage to screw this one too.
    I don't actually recall if Urobuchi made Rebellion or not. I know regardless that the movie WAS mandated and not an actual thing anyone had planned, so maybe it's not his fault for once.

    If I recall, Urobochi's author notes in the manga version was him basically saying he wanted to make a happy story for once, just in his style. Thus why Madoka is so self contained and shouldn't have anything stem off from it to water down the importance of the show's themes. Cough Magia Record, Rebellion, and other garbo trash cough.
    Last edited by LaZodiac; 2019-08-06 at 05:52 PM.


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  22. - Top - End - #172
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    Default Re: General Anime/Manga Discussion 16: In Another Thread With My Smartphone

    Quote Originally Posted by Drascin View Post
    And well. Honestly, Urobuchi ends up ****ing up everything he does eventually, so I am thoroughly unsurprised he'd manage to screw this one too. I'm genuinely surprised something as good as Madoka came out of the man as is!
    I'm not sure if it was Urobuchi or Shinbo, but I'm pretty sure I've seen a quote along the lines of "I had a plan but they made me change it, and now it's not the franchise I made any more".

    There also seem to be a bunch of "Urobuchi projects" that amount to "we hired Urobuchi to write episode 1 for marketing purposes".
    Last edited by Prime32; 2019-08-06 at 06:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drascin View Post
    Pretty much everyone I know whose ability to perform media analysis I actually trust came out of Rebellion thinking it was some combination of stupid, bad, and strictly opposite theme-wise to the series.

    And well. Honestly, Urobuchi ends up ****ing up everything he does eventually, so I am thoroughly unsurprised he'd manage to screw this one too. I'm genuinely surprised something as good as Madoka came out of the man as is!
    The tv series was pretty clear in its intent to flip every trope it could think of.

    I honestly don't see what people expected from a continuation... sailor moon?


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    Default Re: General Anime/Manga Discussion 16: In Another Thread With My Smartphone

    Also, it was... Blatently obvious that It Was Going Pear-Shaped at the end of the series because of the post-credits sequence where we basically...

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    ... see Homura lose it.

    And rightly so, honestly.



    Hope is not an end goal, its a motivating force, so Madoka just being hope forever - and thus being forever in stasis, trapped away from everything but the dying magical girls was, frankly, a bit of an [excrement] end on that I would have thought very little of, had I not known about what came next. (Especially since Bunny--cat essentially got away without the soul-cleaving agony it deserves to experience.)

    (I mean it's not NGE or ME3 bad, bad, but it would have been "eyeglow roll and shake head" bad.)

    Reality is a steaming pile of rancid monkey droppings that should have the sand kicked in its face at every single opportunity until it makes itself work properly, so I have nothing but respect for someone prepared and able to stick their boot up it's arse at high enough velocity to make it vomit out chunks of its own lower intestines.
    Last edited by jdizzlean; 2019-08-06 at 10:35 PM.

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    Default Re: General Anime/Manga Discussion 16: In Another Thread With My Smartphone

    Spoiler: Rebellion
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    Homura losing faith is against Madoka Magica's entire thesis. The entire point that Homura keeping hope alive WAS worth it, that being hopeful is not a mistake. The end of the series is literally Homura thinking about how she knows that a literal god is watching over her, no matter what she is. I wouldn't take thte events that happened during this speech to be a sign of Homura "breaking" but of her preparing to fight.

    I'm not a very religious person myself, and I get how people would consider this sort of message bad, but Homura succeeded in making the person who was her entire world become an immortal diety of literal hope, the same hope Madoka gave her just by being kind and gentle. How could we take that away from her? How could someone decide "okay then she loses hope and dresses in a dumb slutty outfit because she's obsessed with Madoka". It's gross and bad.

    How is Madoka's ending bad? How is Madoka, one of the nicest people ever, being able to help people feel safe and protected a bad end for her? Her end goal is to help all magical girls, and be there for them when they most need it. She IS Hope, made manifest. The series is not saying hope is an end goal, they're saying that hope is the means through which we can survive anything.
    Last edited by LaZodiac; 2019-08-06 at 10:42 PM.


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  26. - Top - End - #176
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    Default Re: General Anime/Manga Discussion 16: In Another Thread With My Smartphone

    *reads people discussing Rebellion*

    *reads spoilers about PMMM Rebellion*

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    Hm. I can see how Rebellion would be contentious, going by the tvtropes page alone.

    at least I'm spoiled on it so I might not be as emotionally harmed if I ever see it. It is made by the Urobutcher, got to be careful about viewing stuff made by authors who slaughter characters like he does, sometimes spoilers are vital emotional dampeners!

    so basically, if what I'm hearing is correct, Homura finds out that she is in a fake self-world, Kyubeys trying to re-enslave Madoka so she decides to save her and the universe from the Kyubeys, and Homura does everything in her power to save all her friends, kick the Kyubeys to the curb and succeeds by becoming a goddess?

    ....... how does this makes her a goddess of evil again?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    *reads people discussing Rebellion*

    *reads spoilers about PMMM Rebellion*

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    Hm. I can see how Rebellion would be contentious, going by the tvtropes page alone.

    at least I'm spoiled on it so I might not be as emotionally harmed if I ever see it. It is made by the Urobutcher, got to be careful about viewing stuff made by authors who slaughter characters like he does, sometimes spoilers are vital emotional dampeners!

    so basically, if what I'm hearing is correct, Homura finds out that she is in a fake self-world, Kyubeys trying to re-enslave Madoka so she decides to save her and the universe from the Kyubeys, and Homura does everything in her power to save all her friends, kick the Kyubeys to the curb and succeeds by becoming a goddess?

    ....... how does this makes her a goddess of evil again?
    Spoiler
    Show
    I saw it as her selfishness leading her to take on the role, more so than her actually being this evil person.


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  28. - Top - End - #178
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    Default Re: General Anime/Manga Discussion 16: In Another Thread With My Smartphone

    Watched Land of the Lustrous for the animation, was not expecting the feels. Now I need a second season.

    Started watching an older series, Beyond the Boundary after seeing some good animation in a highlight reel. The start of the first episode might be the best "meet cute" ever. Beyond that I'm seeing interesting world building, well animated fights, funny dialog even in sub-titles, cuteness, and a general need to watch the whole thing.
    Last edited by Excession; 2019-08-07 at 02:40 AM.

  29. - Top - End - #179
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    Default Re: General Anime/Manga Discussion 16: In Another Thread With My Smartphone

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    Spoiler: Rebellion
    Show
    I'm saying that Madoka being a magical god of hope would counter any attempts to **** up the time stream. I'm not saying they care about hope, I'm saying that the instant they try to make things bad for magical girls Madoka would politely shoo them away.

    Homura should not fall to despair because she won. She succeeded where every other magica girl failed and she knows that when she dies, she'll be with Madoka again. Also, importantly, this is ignoring the fact that the other half of this complaint was that they dress her up like some erotic lolita bull**** character and I hate it.

    It didn't need to be, and I'm fine with Walpurgisnacht not being her, but there's so much weight behind the theory that I think 100% deconfirming it takes away from the coolness of it.

    Madoka fighting is bad. Madoka being shown fighting isn't inherently bad, because the idea is to show that every time she fights something terrible happens because she should not fight. Madoka's entire realization is that she needs to come up with an actual wish that will solve things instead of just becoming another cog in the Incubator's machine. Having that get retreaded just feels wrong after the conclusion.

    You can put quality work into a ****ty cash crab. Given the designs and what it led to (Madoka Magica phone game gachapon with a bunch of stupid, badly designed magical girls to attract lolita obsessed nerd-idiots) I can say Rebellion is absolutely a cash grab. It was not intended and never intended, Madoka Magica is a self contained story that has no need for a sequel. It is a needless movie, and even if it does "new and interesting things" it's still an unneeded money-grab to tie in to the phone game. Now, if you want to say my term use is wrong that's fine, I'll relent I don't really care because my point still matters. Call it a cash grab, call it needless and unintended, none of this changes the fact that a lot of the things in that film is aimed towards people who wouldn't like Madoka Magica.
    Spoiler: Rebellion
    Show
    The incubators don't initially know how the Law of Cycles works, so there's no reason they wouldn't try things. And they brought an immovable object with them to address the unstoppable force of the Law of Cycles...or so they think; it's not so immovable, considering Madoka does show up and defeat their attempt.

    Homura ends the series putting her life on the line to defend a world she thinks isn't worth protecting solely for the sake of her memory of Madoka. Madoka won, but it was never a win for Homura, who went through all that to protect Madoka only to lose her after all. And then there's the post-credits scene...Homura endures with the memory of Madoka, and what happens in Rebellion? Her memories are messed with. Homura breaks in Rebellion along fault-lines that were already present in the series. It's not a contradiction of the series at all.

    Yes, this is ignoring your complaints about Devil Homura's appearance, because I don't care about that.

    "Madoka should not fight" is not a message of the series anywhere. Indeed, I would say it's at least as much a contradiction of the series as anything in Rebellion. Not becoming a cog in the incubators' machine, sure, but she doesn't act or consider acting as one in Rebellion, so that point is not retreaded.

    The series was released in 2011. The movies were released in 2012 and 2013. Magia Record was released in...2017. So much for the narrative about what led to what. The gacha game is absolutely a s***ty cash grab, but there's no indication that Rebellion was filmed with the gacha game in mind. If quality work is put in, and the point was not just to grab cash, it is not a s***ty cash grab. (The 'just' is important - artists deserve to get paid.) You can say it doesn't matter that you used the wrong words because your point still matters, but other people can only understand your point through the words you use, so when you use the wrong words, no one can tell whether your actual point matters.

    As for said point...is Rebellion needless and unintended? Debatable, but even if it is, you could say the same of Terminator 2, or any number of other great sequels. It doesn't say anything useful about whether a film is good or ought to exist. So no, I don't think it matters.
    Last edited by Lethologica; 2019-08-07 at 02:49 AM.

  30. - Top - End - #180
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    Default Re: General Anime/Manga Discussion 16: In Another Thread With My Smartphone

    Quote Originally Posted by ellenate View Post
    The tv series was pretty clear in its intent to flip every trope it could think of.

    I honestly don't see what people expected from a continuation... sailor moon?
    It... really wasn't? Which thank god, because pretty much every work that goes "Imma subvert all the tropes! Setting up audience expectations is for wimps!" as a basic mission statement ends up ****ing terrible?
    Last edited by Drascin; 2019-08-07 at 03:26 AM.

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