Horror Campaign (prev. Army of Commoners)

[goat]

Well, in this situation, I have only one bit of advice.

Pray.

Really. Just make sure your DM understands why you're doing it.

You've told us that the party in question are good, several of them are pious and, perhaps most importantly, are level 6's in a world where level 6's are something to be proud of.

Now, if your cleric and Paladin follow the same god, this is easier, even more so if any of the other characters have a religious side. In the optimum situation, you convert the villagers as well, (Diplomancer! I choose you!) and they all need to pray for salvation.

What you have to hope is that the god in question a) pays attention, b) values his (setting-wise) high level followers, and c) REALLY doesn't like evil abominations that are rampaging across the land towards his high level followers and are about to kill them.

Then pray (out of character) for (in character) divine intervention.

[SilverClawShift]

Updates, with some good news (thank god).

Our wizard DOES have lesser sonic orb. I KNEW he had a lesser orb of acid (we were near some trolls for a while, it was very relevant). Turns out, he's got all of them but fire. The same player is often (not always) a wizard, and dedicates a lot of their playing to their magic (naturally). I don't know his whole list, but he's smart, so we've probably got a lot of good options.

Our DM, benevolent guy he is, agreed that our spellcasters can craft during the week and still give training. The crafting process can be considered training if it's in front of people trying to learn about it.
We also use the default rules for crafting with a small tweak. While the rules say "items take 1 day to craft per 1000 gp of their price", our DM interprets that as "roughly 16 hours of work = roughly 1000 gp worth of crafting". So things that cost less than that will be craftable in a few hours. We can basically "crunch craft" some wands and scrolls for this, in addition to anything we prepare.

Our groups discussed a few strategies, and some things that could be potentially useful regardless of our main strategies. What magic will help. This is really scary

[Kioran]

Problem is, as well, that your low-level militiamen will have a BAB of 1 or 2, maybe another +2 from Abilities, +1 for Wepon Fcous if we´re generous. Maybe another +2 through buffs. Hitting the low twenties ACs of the larger beasts is going to be difficult, so Warlocks going for touch or Sorcerers slinging magic missiles ain´t that bad, provided you have some way to let them drop their "Payload" before the enemy strikes. They aren´t charging you over an open field, but still - how long can you stall them? If you can do it for a while, these Magic missiles or Eldritch blasts will hurt, and you´ll have good chances or roasting the larger targets with concentrated fire from your supernatural squad........
Apart from that, I second the idea of rounding up Undead as cannon fodder through the use of control Undead, if somehow possible. Most importantly: Undead are fodder you can, with good conscience, afford to lose.

Apart from that: Errect chokepoints, ramps, barricades. If I´m not mistaken, your enenmies are going to be, mostly, melee critters. Delaying them or denying them advantages of numbers is the key to success, while you lay down the smack. Javelins, while simple weapons, are probably available and not that bad - everybody in the second line should have a few. Everything helps.

Oh, and pray.

[lord_khaine]

im amazed noone have mentioned using explosive runes to blow up the kytons, make a decent stack of them, wait until the big nasty gets within 10 feet of it and throw a dispel magic on it.

[Korias]

Did your DM allow homebrew? Check out the Elemental Born in my signature. That has some good stuff. Also, your an accomplished homebrewer yourself, so you should be able to throw down some classes that can help in a pinch. Just no Kython-hunters.

Also, remember to assign units: A healbot to each squad with a wand of Cure Light Wounds, and a Hospital-esque building for those that can make it (The schoolhouse sounds good).

[Zeful]

Mirage Arcana ,just vanish the entire settlement. Hide and wait. Also if you have the resources you can have 'suicide squads' that have a bag of holding an a portable hole that they stuff together to open the gate to the astral plane. 10' of enimies are gone.

In seriousness though make a bunch of Wands of the Sonic Lesser orb, and hand them out to the 39ish sorc/warlocks and have them blast away at the slaymaster.

I also recommend dropping buildings/rocks on your enimies. It'll halp alot and make the terrain harder to navigate.

[bugsysservant]

Alright, I can't hold off asking any longer. What, if any, battlefield control spells do you have. Pretty much anything that will move earth/build walls/shape terrain can be invaluable in this instance, whether in spells or scrolls/wands.

The bulk of your troops can be warlock 1/other 1. An infinite number of eldritch spears=decent damage. The school marm should be a warmage 2 buffed with fox's cunning and eagle's spledor. Her damage output for spells (using sonic orbs) is 42.5 assuming they hit, and they probably will against the touch AC while being buffed by marshalls, dragon shaman, and bards. That will take out a juvenile kython, or a third of the Slaymaster, nothing to snear at for a level two warmage.

But yeah, smoke, caltrops, pit traps, commanded undead, walls, rolling logs and boulders and choke points are all a must. This will be a tough battle, but you can win with good planning and a little luck.

[Korias]

Apart from all the strategies, what will happen to the villagers that do survive? Will they become 1st level somethings, or go stay 2nd level, or what? Cause with that EXP gain here, they might just make it to 4th level. Which means that their going to be pretty freakin sweet. And you might need them to infiltrate the Kython Hive.

[bugsysservant]

Alright, scratch warlock. Go Sorceror 2 instead. Hail of stone will bypass any energy resistance. Assuming you can obtain the Material Component (the least of your worries) thats 40 people with 4 spells per day (the rest are better served as buff specialists or the warmage school marm) is 160 spells. Hail of stone deals 2d4 at CL 2 and can effects 4 squares. Assuming you can cluster the kythons, thats 800 damage with no saving throw, SR, or touch attack. And each casting can effect four squares, so the total damage to the kython mob would be in the thousands. And hail of stone works at 120 ft. for CL 2. Just get them in a choke point, and the kythons will fall or flee. This battle is very winnable. (you'll note that each of my successive posts gets more optimistic)

[Machete]

im amazed noone have mentioned using explosive runes to blow up the kytons, make a decent stack of them, wait until the big nasty gets within 10 feet of it and throw a dispel magic on it.

I mentioned explosive runes.

Explosive Runes. Again. If your wizard has it, flaunt it. The damage from one explosive rune explosion hurting an adjacent rune should set it off (botched disable attempt like). so you can spread them out.


Also, try to deny the Kythons COVER if possible. Put traps by Cover because they don't like getting toasted with eldritch blasts.

[Fizban]

Alright, scratch warlock. Go Sorceror 2 instead. Hail of stone will bypass any energy resistance. Assuming you can obtain the Material Component (the least of your worries) thats 40 people with 4 spells per day (the rest are better served as buff specialists or the warmage school marm) is 160 spells. Hail of stone deals 2d4 at CL 2 and can effects 4 squares. Assuming you can cluster the kythons, thats 800 damage with no saving throw, SR, or touch attack. And each casting can effect four squares, so the total damage to the kython mob would be in the thousands. And hail of stone works at 120 ft. for CL 2. Just get them in a choke point, and the kythons will fall or flee. This battle is very winnable. (you'll note that each of my successive posts gets more optimistic)

A bat swarm deals 1d6/round and bleeds for 1hp/round until healed. Plus Fort DC 11 or be nauseated, which limits the target to a single move action. And you don't have to worry about material components (what small village is going to have that much jade in it?). True, it has a shorter range, but you only need to fill the chokepoints, and most of your guys have eldritch spear instead and are attacking at longer range. Or you can have Warlock 1/Sorcerer 1 and get both.

Thought: make a few scrolls of the swarm, it's got a concentration duration, and the more ground with swarms on it the better. You can do this even if you don't have warlocks.

The Dragonfire Adept's breath weapon won't hurt the Kythons, and the sickening breath is inferior to the bat swarm.

I second explosive runes. Though you'll have to detonate them manually, a field of those ought to mostly kill anything in it: each one deals an average of 21 damage, enough to put a broodling in the negatives and severely damage a juvenile.


I wouldn't waste time crafting wands if you can train warlocks. Except for a few possible spells (web, command undead) they won't be any better. You've got 14000 worth of crafting time between the wizard and archivist. That should be enough to get a couple auto resetting magic traps up, though that could be seen as cheesy (I don't think it's that bad unless you're using a "healing" trap personally).

Hmm, if you've got wind wall find out if it can stop the acid glob and bone shard weapons. If it can, that'd be good to have on hand. A magic circle against evil might grant the tiniest extra chance if/when they close to melee range.

And of course, it can't be said enough, the most important thing is to transform the village into the biggest hellhole you can. Smoke, oil slicks, pits (Kythons don't have a climb speed or special jump modifiers), barricades, falling rocks, falling buildings, rolling logs (might be a little labor intensive), and so on.

[bugsysservant]

A bat swarm deals 1d6/round and bleeds for 1hp/round until healed. Plus Fort DC 11 or be nauseated, which limits the target to a single move action. And you don't have to worry about material components (what small village is going to have that much jade in it?). True, it has a shorter range, but you only need to fill the chokepoints, and most of your guys have eldritch spear instead and are attacking at longer range. Or you can have Warlock 1/Sorcerer 1 and get both.

Swarms are very bad ideas for this battle. Since the casters have no control over the creatures and the duration lasts for concentration+2, a sadistic DM (this is a horror campaign after all) will wipe out half your forces before they can dissmiss the swarm. Plus, there is no guarantee that multiple swarms won't just attack each other. While it would be good to have a warlock 1/rogue 1 sneak invisibly to the kythons well before they get near the village, and sic multiple swarms on them to weaken them, using the two round overlap, it would be very unwise to have those swarms near the villagers as a whole.

Actually that is a good idea. Have a few of invisible warlocks wait at the kython nest for them to emerge and have them tail the kythons with multiple swarms. Once the kythons actually show up, they would be significantly weakened, especially by the bleeding as they unlikely to be near healing, or delayed by the hunt for the invisible warlock/rogues.

Edit: That reminds me, how far away is the kython nest? If the distance is significant, the warlocks could just hit them using the above tactic at the midway point. Since they are pretty much guarenteed to lose 1 hp per round+the actual damage from the swarm, that could wipe out the army right there.

[dyslexicfaser]

If you happen to have lots of wood handy for javelins or other throwing weapons, there's a feat in CW (I think) that lets you hit with throwing weapons as a touch attack, in exchange for no str bonus to dmg.

This would allow even lowbie slingers or javelineers to hit the beasties.

EDIT: I'm assuming. I don't know the stats on these buggers, maybe even their touch ac is too high.

[tahu88810]

Your a goner. No questions asked.

But I'll gladly list ways to prolong your suffering:

1) Cheap, barbaric traps: Deep pits, deep spiked pits, swinging logs, those snares that catch people and hang 'em up by their ankles. Those will all work. Especially against the zombies, they are mindless, so they can't climb. And it will slow the Kython's down.

2) Explosive runes, infact, put them everywhere you can (In one, narrow street), and when the Kython's reach that area have everybody pull back at a dead run before you Dispel Magic right in the center. DONT do it to the zombies, do it to the Kythons.

3) A few Wands of CLW for the combatants (So they can heal themselves and allies, and hurt zombies) and a LOT for a healer or two.

4) If you want to look into magical traps, there is a magic turret in the PHB2 that looks very usefull, spam Cure or Force spells...

5) And since Kythos drown...make a really really dip trench. Cover the trench so it won't be noticed. Fill trench with water. When Kythos fall in, fire arrows at them. Either they'll swim under and drown, or they'll get knocked back trying to climb out and eventually drown. Either way, they should start to drown.

6) As for the zombies, I think that warlock 1/other 1 idea posted above looks usefull...

[bugsysservant]

EDIT: I'm assuming. I don't know the stats on these buggers, maybe even their touch ac is too high.

Nope, only 12-13. For specialized javelin throwers, this is nothing. I would still go mainly with spell casters, however.

[Machete]

Nets and Springwalls from Arms and Equipment Guide will help slow the Kythons down. Huge Nets too that target areas if possible!

Between trees, used from buildings, rigged to fall or thrown into pits before rocks are thrown or fall in on top of Kythons.

A batch of Tanglefoot bags rigged to fall on Kythons may also be useful, multiple attacks like a dozen of these goobags at once by tying them together. Especially good it their strength is hampered.

Vigor spells are better than cure spells.

Dragoinfire Adept is out because it is ineffective.

[Da Beast]

The best way I've ever heard to make an effective fighting force out of commoners was to have 100,000 of the stand in a straight line with a stack of quarter staves at the far end. The first commoner picks up a staff and uses a free action to pass it to the next person. That one passes it to the next and so on. I don't know the exact math, but when the staff reaches the end of the line it will be moving over 4 miles a second and would in theory launch rail gun style into your enemy. Repeat as necessary. Don't know what you could do with 7 dozen.

[Dullyanna]

@Brennus:That's pretty cheesy, IMO. SilverClaw's explicitly said that stuff like that is out of the question. Also, I think Buggsyservant's got a good idea w/ the warlock attrition strategy. Except that those bastard xenomorphs have blindsense. Maybe if they just shot the kytons from a distance whilst moving backwards?

[Nowhere Girl]

With the same token, though, say it ain't so that a Good aligned party would duck out in the middle of the night to leave these poor bastards alone, let alone the Paladin in the group doing the same.

It's absolutely so. Maybe not in the middle of the night ... but yes, good people can still abandon individuals who are determined to commit suicide (which, effectively, this is).

From the PHB:

Evil: "Some evil creatures simply have no compassion for others and kill without qualms if doing so is convenient. Others actively pursue evil, killing for sport or out of duty to some evil deity or master."

Neutral: "People who are neutral with respect to good and evil have compunctions about killing the innocent but lack the commitment to make sacrifices to protect or help others. Neutral people are committed to others by personal relationships."

Good: "Good characters make personal sacrifices to help others."

Okay, so there we are: good characters make personal sacrifices to help others. Fine. That's like being always "Helpful" ("will take risks to help you" -- protect, back up, heal, aid) to people who aren't obviously evil. What it is not, automatically, is being effectively "Fanatic" ("will give life to serve you" -- fight to the death against overwhelming odds, throw self in front of onrushing dragon) to all people who aren't obviously evil (although I could argue that putting your children in this kind of danger over land is an evil act ... but that's a separate issue).

In my opinion, if you go through with this, your party is acting, basically, as though you were all "Fanatic" towards the villagers. I don't know where people got the idea that being good (evil lawful good, even as a paladin) means you're required to be suicidally stupid, but that does seem to be a popular view.

I don't even know that I consider staying and fighting to be a particularly good act. It strikes me as arrogantly foolish. Perhaps it would be more "good" to take the willing along on an evacuation, protecting them and guiding them, and plan for a future retaking of their lands with better resources if and when possible. It isn't quite as macho, though, so maybe that's where the appeal is lacking for some people here.

[Saph]

If possible, make sure to train a handful of the villagers as Dragon Shamans, to function as combat medics. One Dragon Shaman can heal a nearly-infinite amount of HP with his vigor aura, as long as it's spread out over a long time.

Oh, and please tell us how the battle turns out. I'm really curious now. :)

- Saph

[Dullyanna]

I'd hate for this to devolve into an alignment thread, but I will say that, IMO, stupidity and evil are separate things, to an extent.

[Machete]

@Brennus:That's pretty cheesy, IMO. SilverClaw's explicitly said that stuff like that is out of the question. Also, I think Buggsyservant's got a good idea w/ the warlock attrition strategy. Except that those bastard xenomorphs have blindsense. Maybe if they just shot the kytons from a distance whilst moving backwards?

Not a bad idea. As an exit strategy have a portion of the barracades extending however far out you have them and whatnot DRENCHED in oil and some Fuse (Arms and Equipment Guide) leading through it all and back over the wall. Hide and disguise this fuse. When all is starting to look bad and defenses are breeched and they start to get inside, light it up and watch the barracades and such begin to burn down in a small lane leading from the town. Have a way to breech the defenses from the inside with a bomb(alchem fire, alchem frost(or whatever it is called from Frostbite), edritch blast, acid, or any combo) and ride out on horses hitched to wagons carrying some ranged warriors who can attack as they flee and carry survivors with. Cast Sanctuary on the horses, driver, and all noncambatants. Warlocks will work well for this and finding a way to make extra wide wagon wheels will be helpful for traction and making the ride less bumpy. They can fire while riding away in the wagons.

It isn't great, but if you have a path or road, you have an exit strategy that whittles down the enemy.


Servant Horde will be good for adding to the barracade and simple trap labor force.


It occurred to me that these kythons may try to grapple a lot. Some kind of spiked armor or improvised spikes may discourage this or alternatively use the Escape Artist bonus funtion of Lard from Dungeonscape.


This thread is really getting the ol noggin a cookin!

[huyneo]

Here are some spells that might help...
Spawn Screen Cleric 2 Wiz/Sorc 2 1 person/ level can't be turned into undead if you really don't want them to become undead
Holy Storm Cleric 3 Creates 20ft Storm around themselves dealing 2d6 to anyone that normally is hurt by holy water 1round / level. Material Component Flask of Holy water
Quick Potion Sorc/Wiz 2 Just cast any buff type spell into this and it lasts 1 hour/ CL. Good for if you split up.
Servant Horde Sorc/Wiz 3 Before the battle when you want to set up and it is very dangerous. oh yeah... 2d6 +1/ level servants.
Manyjaws Sorc/Wiz 3 effectively 1 Jaw/Level which fly up to 90 ft a round. Deal 1d6 damage unless reflex for half Concentration up to 3 rounds. somewhat good if you think about it.
Blade of Pain and Fear Cleric 3 Creates Blades in all spaces next to you and deals 1d6+1/CL every round. Works best if he is surrounded.
Thats kinda all i can get out right now X_X

Anyway, you can hook up logs on the walls if you can.. if it has walls.
Logs can ussally boll over people if they are moving. You can also set up logs to roll off the slanted roofs of the houses. I suggest building some kind of surrounding moat/pit around the base of operations. And only build 1 path into
the base. You should try to shut off as many entrances to the town as possible. Should also prepare some dispel magics if they try to use some
magical way to get into the town or the base. Reinforce the Base, include
windows and any such other opening. When you get more clerics on your side
you might want them start making lots and lots of holy water. Vats of it is
very preferable. You want your commoners to be in the back and never in the
front. You should try to least casualties, but that might now be avoidable.
I don't know... this is all i can think of doing...

[Ashtar]

I'd say a squad of fighters, 2 ranks (longspear in the back, light weapon in front with shield feats (phalanx fighting, shield mate, shield specialization) with the hold the line feat on the back rank are very nice to have to block off an area. Any creature approaching takes 3 AOOs as it enters the threatened area. Back up the squad with a couple of clerics (yay Bless (50' radius!), cure light wounds), a bard/marshal, if you can prepare a wand of aid, it could help. Protection from Evil is also very good.

If you can, have Armor spells cast to help the commoners.

If you do it correctly you can have level 2 fighters with an AC around (10 base, +4 Armor, +1 light shield, +1 sp shield, +1 shield mate, +2 phalanx fighting, +2 protect from evil) = 21 reasonable enough for them to survive in contact. This gives time for clerics to heal them from behind. It would be even better with a shield of faith to help them.

These serve as a melee screen, have warlocks shooting from above (ie. standing on roofs) to avoid hitting your own troops.

Alternatively, I would say, make every villager a cleric. This maximises the healing capability and might even get you some help from the upper plains ^^.

Finally, if you can, druids are a nice addition. Entangle is useful, you have the animal companion extra, too.

And sorcerer cheese with sleep, color spray if these work on the beasties. (I don't know the HD on the mooks).

Also, remember to CONSECRATE the village. Undead cannot be created with that area and are weakened and easier to turn.

Glyph of warding can be useful, but it's material cost is excessive. What's nice is you can choose the energy type.

[bugsysservant]

Damn, forgot blindsense. It isn't blind sight, but you still will get hit if the kythons start charging or shooting your warlocks. Still, since the bleeding lasts till a sucessfull heal (not a skill kythons have) it could still work.

Anyway, looking through the spell compendium, don't forget wall of smoke. Anyone that goes through it must make a fort save or be nauseated (can only take a move action) for one round. This could be critical to getting of that last round of hail of stone before the kythons actually attack. Also, since it provides concealment, you can just dig a really deep pit filled with spikes on the other side. Since you don't have to worry about trap doors, it can be fairly easy to construct too, and if you cast silence, the kythons can't yell to their friends to hold back. And since kythons don't have climb or jump as class skills, wetting the sides of the pit should keep them there indefinitely. Once you have the entire kython horde in one big pit, empty your repetoire of hail of stone/summon swarm, or even just roll boulders/logs on top to crush them.

@ ashtar-fighters won't stop them. The Slaymaster is CR 15, and will tear through a line of level two fighters in no time, even with AoO (they have 127 hp, AC 30, and +17 to hit). Admittedly, there is only one slaymaster, but even juveniles would do a serious number on that line, maybe even kill them all.

[psychoticbarber]

It's absolutely so. Maybe not in the middle of the night ... but yes, good people can still abandon individuals who are determined to commit suicide (which, effectively, this is).

Well, we play and run our Paladins differently. I wouldn't fall a Paladin for leaving, but I'd make him feel pret-tee guilty about it.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Actually, Blade of Fear and Pain just creates a sword. Not a lot of blades. just one "3 foot long pillart of knashing teeth"

[SurlySeraph]

Also, remember to CONSECRATE the village. Undead cannot be created with that area and are weakened and easier to turn.

I disagree here. You want as many undead as impossible in the area, because they'll slow down the Kythons, which are the real threat. Zombies are easier to get away from than Kythons are. As I said before, it would be good if you can get a mob of undead surrounding the town before the Kythons show up.

[Ashtar]

I hadn't read the entry for Kythons... error corrected.
After reading it, all I can say is You are so screwed.

If they even get into the village, or even close enough to use their ranged weaponry. It'll be a massacre.

So, covert the whole village and pray!

[TheSteelRat]

Some basic factoids about the enemy (Kythons)

1. They have Blind SIGHT. (BoVD pg. 178) Unless the version of the book I'm looking at isn't the right one. They have ranks in Listen only.
2. They're mostly melee combatants, but every attack is almost a killing blow for a 1st or 2nd level character, especially since they have constitution poison.
3. Everything bigger than a broodling has a chance of having a ranged weapon, most of which would cause near-instant death on being hit.
4. They have no ranks in Climb or Jump, and have only a standard land speed.
5. They have very high standard AC, but incredibly low touch AC.
6. Their immunities and resistances make any energy attacks besides Force and Sonic more of a threat to your side than them.


Random points to be made

a) Whatever class you select for them needs to focus on Ranged Touch Attacks, since otherwise you're SOL for being able to a) Hit them, b) Do Damage.

b) Making them come to you will probably be your best bet. Find out the Climb DC's of whatever defensive structures you'll be creating, and make sure they can't make the check. The highest any of them get is a +4 to climb, so anything with a DC higher than 20 is instantly inaccessible. If your buildings are made of brick, all the better, since the DC is 25 for "A rough surface, such as a natural rock wall or a brick wall." As for them jumping, they again only get a +4, and the broodlings would probably be treated as quadrapeds for their vertical reach, but the rest will have the 8 ft starting point. Hope your houses are higher. Anything taller than 14' ft for the roof would be nearly impossible for them to jump up onto (and that's just for a hand-catching). What this does mean though is you need to dig a trench around buildings, and move anything that they could possibly hop up onto, even to adjacent buildings, since they can probably make jump checks between rooftops. Make sure whatever rocks you're dropping on them won't let them hop up on'em and kill ya that way either. As a note - this doesn't apply to the Slaymaster. It can reach you. And then you die.

c) It doesn't say what their blindsight relies upon, but it's worth a try at least to have any deafening attacks possible, as that *could* blind them, and once blinded any non-touch attacks will have an increased chance of success, but I think it's still worth only going for touch attacks.

d) It's safe to assume that given their bonuses to hit and damage, your meat shields will die in one round once in melee. That's about it folks.